Lennox Lewis vs the Greats Part one

Lennox Lewis vs Muhammad Ali

Muhammad Ali although the greatest heavyweight of all time never faced a boxer who was as good as Lennox Lewis who had the power, jab, adaptability and boxing skills to match anyone. Foreman hit harder than Lewis but didn’t have the boxing skills to beat Ali and win the tactical exchange but he would struggle with an intelligent boxer like Lewis. Ali would win rounds against Lewis with his speed and combinations but I think Lewis would get the better off him with his pistol like jab while landing right hands and uppercuts. Ali’s granite chin and heart sees him to the finish whilst taking the most punishment in his career but Lewis takes a close decision.

Although I am a huge Lewis fan I have to disagree with your assessment of him being able to beat Ali. I do not think Lewis would be quick enough to land punches on a consistent basis, especially early in the fight to get the better of the 'The Greatest'. Lewis at times was out jabbed by the likes of Mercer, Bruno and even McCall in their first fight and all were of similar stature to Ali but considerably slower.

Over 12 rounds Ali's work in the early rounds would see him coast in the later rounds for a comfortable UD win. Over 15 rounds Lewis may nick a few extra points as Ali tires, however, as Lennox himself has shown questionable stamina over 12 rounds on occasion he would still be on the end of a UD decision

Go away mate...

Chin, speed, skill, footwork, jab,tank, durability etc.......all go to the same guy....

and it's not Lennox..

7-3 to Ali if they fought ten times for me.

10-0 and Lewis lucky to get nil..

Way too slow....Ali's workrate alone puts rounds in the bank...

Lewis going to knock a guy out that took Liston, Shavers, Foreman and Fraziers best shots??

don't think so..

Knockout, nah.

No chance of either of these two stopping the other for me.

I am with Trussman on this. Ali's footwork and speed alone would make it impossible nearly for Lewis to land any clean shots. As much as I respect Lewis, the Heavyweight divisions both were in are so much different. In Ali's day it was a mixture of speed and power, whereas in Lewis's era it was all power.

Yes, I have to think that of all the top dozen or so heavyweights, Lennox isn't top of the list of those whom I give a great shot at unseating a peak Ali. Lennox has an upright style, favours a right over the top and lacks a really deadly left hook; he also doesn't work hard enough to force Ali to focus for three minutes of every round.

If a peak Lewis were to be put against (say) the Ali who beat Foreman and won the Thrilla in Manila, then I might give him a chance of nicking a couple of decisions out of ten contests. Against the Ali that whipped Ernie Terrell and Zora Folley, I can't give Lennox an earthly, I fear. All wrong for that Ali, in my opinion.

I was figuring in a 60's Ali too....

Although even with a Foreman type if Lewis' legs buckle from a shot Ali was an excellent finisher...

just too slow for me the Steward Lewis and too open the Correa one.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:10-0 and Lewis lucky to get nil..

Way too slow....Ali's workrate alone puts rounds in the bank...

Lewis going to knock a guy out that took Liston, Shavers, Foreman and Fraziers best shots??

don't think so..

Never said Lewis knocks him out, Lewis wins 7 times out of 10 for me...His style is a nightmare for Ali.

Lewis is a versatile fighter can box in a number of ways, Ali would struggle to figure him out.

Way too slow my backside, Lewis had great timing, speed and moved well for a big guy.

Well it's all about opinions..but like with the Captain I take the opposite view. Tall, straight up, without quick hands and a chin that has been found out by Briggs, Akinwande and a few others...

Like it or not the 6ft 3 (Ali's height) Bruno outboxed him early..

Totally disgree, PBF, the style nightmare is entirely the other way. Against a good opponent, Lennox always wanted time, time to set himself, to fire off his shots, to work his way into the contest. He would have none of this against Ali. Lennox brings (admittedly at a superior level) an almost identical skill-set to Terrell, and versatility is not foremost within it.

The fighters who troubled a close-to-prime Ali (no-one really bothered him at his absolute zenith) came in two forms. First, the determined, incredibly fit pressure fighter, prepared to take shots to land better ones of his own. This type, exemplified by Frazier, also ideally had a great left hook, the one punch to which Ali was susceptible throughout his career. The second type to give Ali difficulty was the Norton clone - one who could apply spoiling tactics at a distance and force Ali to box in a style foreign to him. Again, this worked only with a 1970s mark Ali.

Lewis falls into neither of these categories. He had many gifts of his own, of course, but for me, none of them would have been sufficient to assist him in a contest with the best heavyweight of them all.

Of course Lewis, on a certain given day, could beat Ali. But that said, I don't give him much more than a one in five chance of finding that 'certain day' when it comes to this match up.

What Lewis lacked (which Ali struggled against) was a high work rate and volume of punches. He's not going to back Ali up like Frazier could, or force him to lose his timing by peppering him with constant jabs and lefts over the top like Norton did (Lewis' jab was excellent when in full flow, but his sometimes cautious style meant that he simply didn't deploy it enough).

Ali in his 'first incarnation' was a lot busier than some people seem to think, and I reckon his quicksilver combinations are a little too much for the sometimes sluggish and lumbering Lewis. I rate Lennox a hell of a lot higher than most do on here, but I think Ali is all wrong for him. Ali to take a competitive but clear decision, for me.

The problem is Chris if he couldn't outwork Ali he'd need a ko to win!!

If he takes Frazier's, Foreman, Shavers and Liston's best then the odds of Lewis taking him out are slim..

punchers chance and that's it.

I know you don't like Lewis Truss, but to give him just a puncher's chance is a massive oversimplification.

In this case, I'm not sure it is, Sam. For the life of me, I don't see how the Lewis who beat Grant or Tua, let's say (generally trotted out as two of his best wins) would get close to Ali circa 1966. How would he land more than a single shot at a time? How would he respond when Ali took the blows that demolished Grant? How would his own chin withstand the lightning combinations, fired at a speed that he would never have seen throughout his entire career?

I ask in the genuine spirit of a wish for enlightenment. Apart from a million dollar shot, which no-one managed throughout Ali's career, how on earth does the best ever version of Lennox Lewis beat the Muhammad Ali who destroyed Terrell and Folley?

Don't need to respond after the above post really do I??

Look I'd rather have Lewis around now than the Klits....

Don't dislike him..

I'm a huge Lewis fan and have said before that I'd back him, one on one, to beat any hw from history but if we're talking who beats who more times out of 5 or 10 then in this case I can only go with Ali.

As others have said Lewis's particular attributes weren't really the ones required to beat a prime Ali. I won't have that he was slow - he was actually deceptively quick, but not nearly as quick as the greatest with either his footwork or handspeed. He wouldve had advantages in size, strength and power, but this was nothing that Ali didn't overcome in his career. Lennox could definitely hurt Ali with the big right or the uppercut, but one or two big shots probably wouldn't be enough to get rid of Ali and lennox didn't have the high workrate to put him under enough pressure to stop him or outbox him. I'd say Lennox could win 2 or 3 times out of ten by fighting a long, boring fight, jabbing, holding and landing a couple of big punches per round, but more often than not Ali takes a decision I think.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Totally disgree, PBF, the style nightmare is entirely the other way. Against a good opponent, Lennox always wanted time, time to set himself, to fire off his shots, to work his way into the contest. He would have none of this against Ali. Lennox brings (admittedly at a superior level) an almost identical skill-set to Terrell, and versatility is not foremost within it.

The fighters who troubled a close-to-prime Ali (no-one really bothered him at his absolute zenith) came in two forms. First, the determined, incredibly fit pressure fighter, prepared to take shots to land better ones of his own. This type, exemplified by Frazier, also ideally had a great left hook, the one punch to which Ali was susceptible throughout his career. The second type to give Ali difficulty was the Norton clone - one who could apply spoiling tactics at a distance and force Ali to box in a style foreign to him. Again, this worked only with a 1970s mark Ali.

Lewis falls into neither of these categories. He had many gifts of his own, of course, but for me, none of them would have been sufficient to assist him in a contest with the best heavyweight of them all.

I had intended to offer an opinion until I read this from the captain. His superb analysis has rendered utterly superfluous anything I would have said.

I agree with Truss, Captain et al. Ali is in a different league. Lennox is vastly over rated in my opinion

I would not say that Lewis is overrated (one of my top 15 heavyweight champs of all time), but I fear Ali has been severely underrated by the original poster.

Not for a moment do I think Lennox would get annihilated by Ali, as that was not Ali's style, but you have to be either very naive or not know enough about Ali in his prime to think that Lewis could beat him.

Too much fanfare is given to Ali's career in the 70s when he beat greats like Frazier, Foreman etc. However, the truth was he was very much in decline when beating the next generation of greats, while in the 60s he represented as close as possible to a perfect fighting machine (yes I know Marciano retired undefeated but he would have been sliced to bits by Ali I MO).

He may not have fought in a conventional manner (particular his defence which was all based on reflexes) but he is a league of his own in the heavyweight division.

Lewis could beat the Ali that fought Holmes but thats about it

Jimmythebullet wrote:Lewis could beat the Ali that fought Holmes but thats about it

What a ridiculous thing to say.

HumanWindmill wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Totally disgree, PBF, the style nightmare is entirely the other way. Against a good opponent, Lennox always wanted time, time to set himself, to fire off his shots, to work his way into the contest. He would have none of this against Ali. Lennox brings (admittedly at a superior level) an almost identical skill-set to Terrell, and versatility is not foremost within it.

The fighters who troubled a close-to-prime Ali (no-one really bothered him at his absolute zenith) came in two forms. First, the determined, incredibly fit pressure fighter, prepared to take shots to land better ones of his own. This type, exemplified by Frazier, also ideally had a great left hook, the one punch to which Ali was susceptible throughout his career. The second type to give Ali difficulty was the Norton clone - one who could apply spoiling tactics at a distance and force Ali to box in a style foreign to him. Again, this worked only with a 1970s mark Ali.

Lewis falls into neither of these categories. He had many gifts of his own, of course, but for me, none of them would have been sufficient to assist him in a contest with the best heavyweight of them all.

I had intended to offer an opinion until I read this from the captain. His superb analysis has rendered utterly superfluous anything I would have said.

I had intended to compliment the captain until I read this fine piece of praise from Human Windmill. His superb riposte has rendered any underlining agreement quite redundant.

riposte......not a bad word to have in your arsenal.......

I just read Perfessor Albert Lion's posts and copy the best words a few days later...Wlad -love excepted, of course.

andygf wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:Totally disgree, PBF, the style nightmare is entirely the other way. Against a good opponent, Lennox always wanted time, time to set himself, to fire off his shots, to work his way into the contest. He would have none of this against Ali. Lennox brings (admittedly at a superior level) an almost identical skill-set to Terrell, and versatility is not foremost within it.

The fighters who troubled a close-to-prime Ali (no-one really bothered him at his absolute zenith) came in two forms. First, the determined, incredibly fit pressure fighter, prepared to take shots to land better ones of his own. This type, exemplified by Frazier, also ideally had a great left hook, the one punch to which Ali was susceptible throughout his career. The second type to give Ali difficulty was the Norton clone - one who could apply spoiling tactics at a distance and force Ali to box in a style foreign to him. Again, this worked only with a 1970s mark Ali.

Lewis falls into neither of these categories. He had many gifts of his own, of course, but for me, none of them would have been sufficient to assist him in a contest with the best heavyweight of them all.

I had intended to offer an opinion until I read this from the captain. His superb analysis has rendered utterly superfluous anything I would have said.

I had intended to compliment the captain until I read this fine piece of praise from Human Windmill. His superb riposte has rendered any underlining agreement quite redundant.

I had intended to compliment Human Windmills fine compliments of the Captain, until I read this fine piece of praise from AndyGF. Any compliment I could give Windy for his compliment of the Captain would be superfluous in light of Andys superb compliment of Windys compliment.

IMO Lewis would beat Ali 8 times out of 10

Not taking anything away from Ali as he is a definite top 3 heavyweight of all time but no way does he beat a prime Lewis more then Lewis beats him.

A major part of Ali's game was his mouth - out and in the ring to unsettle his opponants as much as possible - making them go into blind rages and ala foreman punching themself out. As seen Lewis will not be fazed one bit by Ali's mouth thus removing one large part

Then we have the speed - it amazes me how many on here seem to think Lewis was some big lumbering hoof. The speed of his punches was exceptional as was his timing. His range and timing and sticking to his gameplan would giv Ali nightmares.

Captain says that Lewis was neither a cut of Frazier or Norton but please tell me a cut of a fighter that Ali has fought that replicates Lewis?

Any way - Lewis takes Ali more often then not

Ernie Terrell is a fair facsimile of Lewis, Jonesy - roughly the same height, a hard puncher favouring the overhand right, but not particularly strong on volume of punch or on foot speed. Lewis would be the better fighter, but not by an absolute landslide.

As others have said Frazier and Norton showed us how to beat Ali.

How'd they do it ? Stamina and volume punching.

Lewis's strengths were power and boxing ability - wrong tools for the job.

Ali takes this on points about 8-4 like clockwork.

No1Jonesy wrote:IMO Lewis would beat Ali 8 times out of 10

To call this a bold statement doesn't quite do it justice.

First off, let's remember that Ali, in his 1960s pomp, was an utterly dominant champion in a way which Lewis, quite simply, never was. There simply isn't a Heavyweight that's ever been born who could beat such a dominant and complete fighter eighty percent of the time, particularly someone with a tendancy to blow hot and cold, as we know Lewis did.

I already gave my other reasons above, but I'll stress again that Lewis' style is made for Ali. Lewis' sometimes cautios style means that he's not going to back Ali up and negate his jab in a way which Frazier did, and nor did Lewis have the industry and work rate of Norton (plus, these tactics only unsettled the 70s version of Ali). I think Ali's speed and dancing style mean that Lewis simply can't land his right hand as often as he'd like, and no, I don't think he can out-jab Ali at range, either.

Lewis beats Ali once in five meetings at the absolute best, for me.

88Chris05 wrote:

No1Jonesy wrote:IMO Lewis would beat Ali 8 times out of 10

To call this a bold statement doesn't quite do it justice.

First off, let's remember that Ali, in his 1960s pomp, was an utterly dominant champion in a way which Lewis, quite simply, never was. There simply isn't a Heavyweight that's ever been born who could beat such a dominant and complete fighter eighty percent of the time, particularly someone with a tendancy to blow hot and cold, as we know Lewis did.

I already gave my other reasons above, but I'll stress again that Lewis' style is made for Ali. Lewis' sometimes cautios style means that he's not going to back Ali up and negate his jab in a way which Frazier did, and nor did Lewis have the industry and work rate of Norton (plus, these tactics only unsettled the 70s version of Ali). I think Ali's speed and dancing style mean that Lewis simply can't land his right hand as often as he'd like, and no, I don't think he can out-jab Ali at range, either.

Lewis beats Ali once in five meetings at the absolute best, for me.

Think people are beginning to take extreme views here. First totally agree no way Lewis beats Ali 8 times out of ten, and im a massive Lewis fan. However Ali looked good in the 60s, but hardly dominant. Beat Liston for the title and then rematch which is good, but only notable names otherwise are Cooper and Patterson, who always get too much credit. Also depending on what you are meaning of dominant, but Lewis went on more titles fights with out a loss than Ali did during the 60s, so i would say that Lewis was a more dominant champ, in a worse era of course.

Ali wins 7 to 3

AdZacO wrote:Also depending on what you are meaning of dominant, but Lewis went on more titles fights with out a loss than Ali did during the 60s, so i would say that Lewis was a more dominant champ, in a worse era of course.

Ali wins 7 to 3

Ali had a period of nine title defences after beating Liston first time out in which he was, beyond any shadow of a single doubt, the best Heavyweight on the planet, and he was dominant in the sense that none of his opponents gave him any significant trouble. Even in his best years (1996-2001, roughly) Lewis turned in unconvincing performances against the likes of Mercer, Mavrovic and Holyfield II, as well as the obvious splattering at the hands of Rahman.

To say that Lewis was a more dominant champion than Ali is pretty fanciful, to say the least.

I'd agree with Chris and add that Cleveland Williams, even shot full of holes as he was when he fought Ali, Zora Folley and Ernie Terrell are names at least as notable as Cooper's, and every bit as good as anything fought by Lennox between 1996 and 2001 (with the exception of Holyfield).

88Chris05 wrote:

AdZacO wrote:Also depending on what you are meaning of dominant, but Lewis went on more titles fights with out a loss than Ali did during the 60s, so i would say that Lewis was a more dominant champ, in a worse era of course.

Ali wins 7 to 3

Ali had a period of nine title defences after beating Liston first time out in which he was, beyond any shadow of a single doubt, the best Heavyweight on the planet, and he was dominant in the sense that none of his opponents gave him any significant trouble. Even in his best years (1996-2001, roughly) Lewis turned in unconvincing performances against the likes of Mercer, Mavrovic and Holyfield II, as well as the obvious splattering at the hands of Rahman.

To say that Lewis was a more dominant champion than Ali is pretty fanciful, to say the least.

I can't agree due to the fact that he didn't fight frazier before his mini retirement. Not all his fault, but he can't a dominant champ without that fight in the 60's. Maybe he was best.

Sure Lennox had some bad performances, and the Mercer fight was less than impressive, but Lennox when fighting badly still churned out wins.

Frazier wasn't ranked until the end of 1966, coming in at 6th. Ali defended his title twice at the beginning of '67, against his numbers one and two contenders.

Frazier wasn't on the radar.

Some question why Lewis didn't fight a better version of Tyson and, of course, he didn't fight Bowe, either, though that was hardly his fault.

AdZacO wrote:I can't agree due to the fact that he didn't fight frazier before his mini retirement. Not all his fault, but he can't a dominant champ without that fight in the 60's. Maybe he was best.

Sure Lennox had some bad performances, and the Mercer fight was less than impressive, but Lennox when fighting badly still churned out wins.

Again, I'd have to strongly disagree. Frazier was just another contender when Ali was stripped of his title and thrown out of the sport, albeit a contender with an Olympic gold medal to his credit. As I said, prior to that, Ali had reigned for nine successive title defences during which there was no doubt about his total supremacy. Lewis never managed this, and certainly never turned in as many utterly dominant performances in a row as Ali did against his sixties contemporaries once he had the title.

I think the main point which riles me when you say that he can't be classed as a dominant champion due to not fighting Frazier by 1967 is that you're totally glossing over the names missing from Lewis' record. He called himself the best Heavyweight of the nineties, and yet he didn't fight Holyfield until 1999, Tyson until 2002, and never fought Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer or even George Foreman at all.

Can't have it both ways. As I said earlier in this thread, I rate Lewis a lot higher than some people do on here, but there's just absolutely no way on God's green earth that he can be considered a more dominant Heavyweight champion than Ali was.

Not a lot more to add to what Chris and Windy have said but there's no real comparison between the two as far as heavyweight dominance is concerned, gets some what overlooked that Ali despite being past his best still beat Frazier 2 out of 3.

Whilst you obviously make some valid arguments think there is an element you are all overlooking in this one, do the words modern nutrition mean nothing to you all.

Modern nutrition started with Muhammad Ali remember Jeff, a convenient point in time I think you would agree, which reminds me where is our resident advocate of modern training techniques?

AdZacO wrote:
Think people are beginning to take extreme views here.

Agreed, and it must be stressed that Ali was the more dominate champion, and to add to that I will say that if Ali hypothetically could have met a prime Lewis, then regardless of the result I believe that would have been his toughest fight Ali had ever faced.

The Lewis under steward was a formidable fighter, and with Lewis's size and boxing ability it would have been interesting seeing how successful he would have been trying to keep Ali at bay with his powerful authorities jab, combined with the rights and brutal uppercuts (who Vatali will vouch for). Of course Ali isn't going to stand there to be hit, and with his blurring hand speed, movement, stamina and boxing brain himself it would also be interesting to see if he could impose himself and find a way to get around Lewis's jab.

I think all 10 fights go the distance, so it comes down to who does the best in the judges eyes? My concern for Lewis is Ali punch volume over the distance, if Lewis fails to dictate/control the pace and get his jab going Ali is going to take a lot rounds due to that superior volume. At this moment I'm leaning to Ali even though my instinct says Lewis to just about sneak it.

So, I would go with Ali taking it 6 - 4, but wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis take it via the same margin.

When it comes to matching old vs new greats I always find this particular match up hard to decide upon. Lewis really had all the tools to be a great in any era IMO.

As an additional question, can people name me prime fighters Ali fought in the 60's?

Well, he fought everybody who was ranked, kev. As the captain has said, Terrell was a darned good fighter and Chuvalo was never an easy night for anybody, either.

Would also add that whilst the second fight in particular will also have a question mark next to it, his subsequent results in the division would suggest Liston still had plenty in the tank at the time Ali beat him as he was still a more than competetive heavy for some years after his defeats to Ali.

I'd also add that I wouldn't want to bet that every single fight goes the distance, either. Ali wasn't for knocking out, certainly not by someone who didn't have the left hook in his armoury. Lennox, on the other hand - Ali wasn't a one-punch KO artist, but in his prime, those combinations of his were so quick that they would disorientate his opponents. Not many of his 1960s opponents saw the final bell. The exceptions were Terrell, who arguably got to the end on sufferance, and Chuvalo, who was simply a freak. Lennox wasn't chinny, exactly, but he could certainly be staggered. Even a 32 year-old Ali was capable of toppling a big guy like Foreman, and I certainly don't put it past Ali in 1966 to do a similar number on Lewis.

88Chris05 wrote:

AdZacO wrote:I can't agree due to the fact that he didn't fight frazier before his mini retirement. Not all his fault, but he can't a dominant champ without that fight in the 60's. Maybe he was best.

Sure Lennox had some bad performances, and the Mercer fight was less than impressive, but Lennox when fighting badly still churned out wins.

Again, I'd have to strongly disagree. Frazier was just another contender when Ali was stripped of his title and thrown out of the sport, albeit a contender with an Olympic gold medal to his credit. As I said, prior to that, Ali had reigned for nine successive title defences during which there was no doubt about his total supremacy. Lewis never managed this, and certainly never turned in as many utterly dominant performances in a row as Ali did against his sixties contemporaries once he had the title.

I think the main point which riles me when you say that he can't be classed as a dominant champion due to not fighting Frazier by 1967 is that you're totally glossing over the names missing from Lewis' record. He called himself the best Heavyweight of the nineties, and yet he didn't fight Holyfield until 1999, Tyson until 2002, and never fought Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer or even George Foreman at all.

Can't have it both ways. As I said earlier in this thread, I rate Lewis a lot higher than some people do on here, but there's just absolutely no way on God's green earth that he can be considered a more dominant Heavyweight champion than Ali was.

The fought Tyson and Holyfield too late is over played. Lewis got his first title in 93, lost it in 94 after 2 defences. So wasn't really viable here, and this is not when i consider his dominance obviously. Then when he got his title back, he fought Holy after Holy had had to more fights at that point. People say he was past his best, probably was but his best was before Lewis was a champ.

Tyson is even more rediculous. The most over rated heavywieght of all time. Was in jail for Lewis' first reign. Then on his second Tyson was just off two losses to Holy. Then took some time out, only to come back and fail a drugs test in one of his next couple of fights. Should never really of fought Lewis, as he was old and i dont give much credit to Lewis for the win.

At what point would you of liked to see Lewis fight any of these two?

If he had fought either Foreman or Moorer, would you not say that they were miles over the hill at 97, only time when really viable, unless you would want them between world titles.

Just incase some one hasnt read whole thing, in no way saying Lewis is better than Ali, far from it, just think he was more dominant champ, but appears as if I'm only one.

HumanWindmill wrote:Well, he fought everybody who was ranked, kev. As the captain has said, Terrell was a darned good fighter and Chuvalo was never an easy night for anybody, either.

I'm just interested to see how well tested Ali (pre war) was. I presume you would have the likes of Terrell/Chuvalo on a level with the version of Mercer Lewis fought, or lower?

kevchadders wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Well, he fought everybody who was ranked, kev. As the captain has said, Terrell was a darned good fighter and Chuvalo was never an easy night for anybody, either.

I'm just interested to see how well tested Ali (pre war) was. I presume you would have the likes of Terrell/Chuvalo on a level with the version of Mercer Lewis fought, or lower?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, kev.

I remember the Liston and Terrell fights vividly. Clay was given next to zero chance against Liston, even though Liston was a bit long in the tooth, and a few hardened journalists reckoned that Terrell, who stood 6ft.6ins., would beat Ali, courtesy of what was considered to be the best jab in the division at the time.

by AdZacO Today at 1:46 pm
--------------

Lewis was deliberately frozen out of the scene when he lost to McCall. Poor management at the time by Maloney and the other fella.

Saw the McCall KO again at the weekend. How Lewis wasn't allowed to continue I'll never know.

Don King shafted him in that fight.

AdZacO wrote:At what point would you of liked to see Lewis fight any of these two?

Adzaco, I'm not saying that Lewis should be blamed for not fighting Holyfield or Tyson earlier - I brought them up to counter your much stranger theory that Ali wasn't dominant in the sixties because he hadn't fought Frazier by 1967, when Frazier was just another contender. You're happy to bring that up despite Ali not being to blame for it, so it's only fair we look at the names missing on Lewis' record, too.

Besides, even allowing for that, the fact remains that Lewis was knocked out by Heavyweight journeymen in his best years. That alone is a solid enough indicator that he was nowhere near as dominant as Ali was.

Have to say that I don't agree with your "if Lewis had fought Moorer or Foreman in 1997 everyone would have said that Moorer was over the hill anyway" suggestion. It's not as if those fights were an impossibility before 1997. They could / should have happened in late 1994 / early 1995; Lewis ruined any chance of that by getting himself knocked out by McCall. Sorry, but there's no Harry-hard luck element for Lewis at all on that one as far as I'm concerned.

Well would have to rate Mercer lower than Terrell without a second thought but Chuvalo was a bit hit and miss, is well known for his durability and chin rather than sparkling boxing ability.

People can't have it both ways saying that the Holyfield and Tyson fights weren't viable then bring up Frazier who again wasn't a viable option, for whatever reason Lewis should possibly have faced at least one or two of Moorer, Foreman, Bowe, Tyson or Holyfield in the mid 90's.