Scotland v Samoa - Monday 30th September 11:15 KO (BST)

First topic message reminder :

So to stop myself contemplating who could be a good replacement for Toonie, I've decided to start a match thread.

Scotland


Samoa


Previous 4 meetings
2012 (Apia)
Sam 16-17 Sco
2013 (Durban)
Sam 27-17 Sco
2015 (RWC)
Sam 33-36 Sco
2017 (Murrayfield)
Sco 44-38 Sam

RDW wrote:But surely Japan not getting a BP against Samoa would mean we don't have to beat them with a BP, assuming they don't get a LBP?

That's a completely different mindset and gameplan compared to needing a BP win!

Flounder, whether the Sons Of Nippon go into the final match needing a four point of five point win is, pretty much, irrelevant. It will be a full house, the crowd will be hysterical with anticipation of making the quarter finals for the first time and the home side will be favourites.

Nothing the Japanese team have experienced will be comparable to the expectations and hype around this match.

Their two big wins have come when they were "plucky underdogs", and as we, as Scotland supporters, know only too well sometimes being favourites can be a heavy burden to carry.

The only thing I would bet on for this game is that Japan will score tries.

If we want to win we need to score more than them. If we go into it with a gameplan based on containment and a low scoring victory we are Donald Ducked. A few seasons ago the Blackness had a mantra that to be certain of winning a Test match a team had to score 33 points. Scotland would do well to take that kind of ambition into the Japan game. I suggest we need to be scoring four or five tries to be sure of winning regardless of how many points Japan pick up before then.

One thing that has impressed me about this Japan team is their composure: the expectations of a nation and a very abrasive Scotland back row may just rattle them.

jimbopip wrote:

RDW wrote:But surely Japan not getting a BP against Samoa would mean we don't have to beat them with a BP, assuming they don't get a LBP?

That's a completely different mindset and gameplan compared to needing a BP win!

If we want to win we need to score more than them. If we go into it with a gameplan based on containment and a low scoring victory we are Donald Ducked. A few seasons ago the Blackness had a mantra that to be certain of winning a Test match a team had to score 33 points.

I spot a flaw in this theory - what if the opposition score 34?! Not so clever now are you, All Blacks!

Really looking forward to Japan v Scotland. Think it could be the game of the tournament if you both play as you normally do with fast, running rugby. Could be a breathless, helter skelter affair!

Yes Japan Scotland, because of the Irish win makes this match up fascinating, when outside the World cup one might flip the channel and watch the next at Epsom.

Like Jones before him, Joseph has maximised resources in his build up and now Japan and their fans get to go up against a tier one side without the benefit of 'ambush', key to both the Bok and Irish wins.

With a comfortable win over Samoa Scotland wait tenuously, the winner likely nailing a quarter spot.

Its Braveheart vs the Sumarai, get your popcorn folks!

Ah Braveheart.  Spent many evenings driving to the film set to see if I could spot Mel going to the portaloo.  
There was a single portaloo situated away off on its lonesome on the crest of a hill above the main castle used.  Me and some family members used to joke that it looked so special, it had to be Mel's.

SecretFly wrote:Ah Braveheart.  Spent many evenings driving to the film set to see if I could spot Mel going to the portaloo.  
There was a single portaloo situated away off on its lonesome on the crest of a hill above the main castle used.  Me and some family members used to joke that it looked so special, it had to be Mel's.

Surprised they didnt chopper him back to Glasgow for number two's

RDW wrote:That's what I was meaning - you've always been the voice of reason tattie, unlike Jimbo!

You need to cut him some slack

Remember jimbo is really really grumpy because A) he’s really really old and B) he follows a “rugby” team of hair gel wearing trophyless pretty boys

jimbopip wrote:

RDW wrote:But surely Japan not getting a BP against Samoa would mean we don't have to beat them with a BP, assuming they don't get a LBP?

That's a completely different mindset and gameplan compared to needing a BP win!

Flounder, whether the Sons Of Nippon go into the final match needing a four point of five point win is, pretty much, irrelevant. It will be a full house, the crowd will be hysterical with anticipation of making the quarter finals for the first time and the home side will be favourites.

Nothing the Japanese team have experienced will be comparable to the expectations and hype around this match.

Their two big wins have come when they were "plucky underdogs", and as we, as Scotland supporters, know only too well sometimes being favourites can be a heavy burden to carry.

The only thing I would bet on for this game is that Japan will score tries.

If we want to win we need to score more than them. If we go into it with a gameplan based on containment and a low scoring victory we are Donald Ducked. A few seasons ago the Blackness had a mantra that to be certain of winning a Test match a team had to score 33 points. Scotland would do well to take that kind of ambition into the Japan game. I suggest we need to be scoring four or five tries to be sure of winning regardless of how many points Japan pick up before then.

One thing that has impressed me about this Japan team is their composure: the expectations of a nation and a very abrasive Scotland back row may just rattle them.

I don't think Japan's mindset is the issue. It's more that going into the last game and Scotland 'only' needing a win by more than 7pts, is a much better position than also knowing we need to score 4 tries as well.

Sure we can aim for scoring as many tries as possible (which I think is Toonie's general plan anyway), but I'd rather it wasn't essential.

EWT Spoons wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

RDW wrote:But surely Japan not getting a BP against Samoa would mean we don't have to beat them with a BP, assuming they don't get a LBP?

That's a completely different mindset and gameplan compared to needing a BP win!

Flounder, whether the Sons Of Nippon go into the final match needing a four point of five point win is, pretty much, irrelevant. It will be a full house, the crowd will be hysterical with anticipation of making the quarter finals for the first time and the home side will be favourites.

Nothing the Japanese team have experienced will be comparable to the expectations and hype around this match.

Their two big wins have come when they were "plucky underdogs", and as we, as Scotland supporters, know only too well sometimes being favourites can be a heavy burden to carry.

The only thing I would bet on for this game is that Japan will score tries.

If we want to win we need to score more than them. If we go into it with a gameplan based on containment and a low scoring victory we are Donald Ducked. A few seasons ago the Blackness had a mantra that to be certain of winning a Test match a team had to score 33 points. Scotland would do well to take that kind of ambition into the Japan game. I suggest we need to be scoring four or five tries to be sure of winning regardless of how many points Japan pick up before then.

One thing that has impressed me about this Japan team is their composure: the expectations of a nation and a very abrasive Scotland back row may just rattle them.

I don't think Japan's mindset is the issue.  It's more that going into the last game and Scotland 'only' needing a win by more than 7pts, is a much better position than also knowing we need to score 4 tries as well.

Sure we can aim for scoring as many tries as possible (which I think is Toonie's general plan anyway), but I'd rather it wasn't essential.

This. I can't fathom in what universe we don't care whether Japan get a winning BP against Samoa!

There's a huge difference between spending the last 10 minutes closing out a win and having to chase another try.

In the last 10 minutes of the Japan match we shall be getting the kitchen sink, along with the sumo wrestler who was washing his feet in it, thrown at us. Either they have their tails up and are running riot, or they are behind on the scoreboard and are going full banzaii because they won't go quietly. This Japan team are not set up to do an Ireland/Wales on us: smother our creativity and pick us off when we get frantic. They are more like us, they will look to win games by running the opposition ragged then scoring tries from out wide.
There is no way we will be closing out a win. If we are defending a winning position it will be full on Alamo meets Rorke's Drift. If we're behind they'll be looking to stretch their lead and bury us.

Their 10 has probably been the best player in the group. he's calm, composed and almost always makes the smart decision. All he does is direct the play and keep things moving in the right direction. He's a bit like a Dan Parks who can pass, and tackle, and take the ball up to the line when that's the right thing to do. Just like Dan Parks. Except for the passing, running and tackling bits.

If Mbawsa and the Replicant can get all over him and under his skin like scabies then we could be in for a good day: if they don't it'll be a long day for our centres.

Conversely, if Dancer finally shrugs off the Cape Of Normality which Toonie has crowbarred him into and decides to show the world what the tournament has been missing .

We won't be seeing out the last 10 minutes. They will come in waves if they have control of the ball. If we have it and Dancer is on song we should be putting lots of points on the scoreboard.

I think this could be a cracker of a match.

Cool if we are getting everything thrown at us, it would be good if we don't also have to worry about having to score multiple tries to get the TBP, and rather just aim to try and win the game.

I'm really struggling to understand how this isn't obvious.  Sorry Jimbo, but not having to score 4 tries is always better than having to score 4 tries.  Regardless of the opposition or what they are doing.

EWT Spoons wrote:Cool if we are getting everything thrown at us, it would be good if we don't also have to worry about having to score multiple tries to get the TBP, and rather just aim to try and win the game.

I'm really struggling to understand how this isn't obvious.  Sorry Jimbo, but not having to score 4 tries is always better than having to score 4 tries.  Regardless of the opposition or what they are doing.

Also this!

Beat me to it.

We saw it against Samoa. We had to get the BP and in the 2nd half we started forcing things which meant things didnt flow.

If Japan fail to get the BP over Samoa then all we do is do what any team is supposed to do and go out onto the field and look to win the game. If we're not going out there with an added goal of having to score 4 tries and stop japan from also scoring 4 tires then it makes the main goal of winning far far easier.

Our mentality is as fragile as a Glasgow local going to pick up his dole money after being paid cash in hand to wash the windows of the office next to the job centre.

If we have to score 4 tries, we probably wont. If we dont need to, we probably will

Oh come on lads. Once we beat Russia ladies second XV you will all feel differently.

RDW wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Cool if we are getting everything thrown at us, it would be good if we don't also have to worry about having to score multiple tries to get the TBP, and rather just aim to try and win the game.

I'm really struggling to understand how this isn't obvious.  Sorry Jimbo, but not having to score 4 tries is always better than having to score 4 tries.  Regardless of the opposition or what they are doing.

Also this!

Beat me to it.

Lads,lads maybe I'm being too opaque. Let me speak plainly

It'll be a high scoring game. If we play as we can our attack is better than their defence. They will back themselves to score more tries than us. I think if we beat them in what will be a shoot out the four tries will take care of themselves.

jimbopip wrote:

RDW wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Cool if we are getting everything thrown at us, it would be good if we don't also have to worry about having to score multiple tries to get the TBP, and rather just aim to try and win the game.

I'm really struggling to understand how this isn't obvious.  Sorry Jimbo, but not having to score 4 tries is always better than having to score 4 tries.  Regardless of the opposition or what they are doing.

Also this!

Beat me to it.

Lads,lads maybe I'm being too opaque. Let me speak plainly

It'll be a high scoring game. If we play as we can our attack is better than their defence.  They will back themselves to score more tries than us. I think if we beat them in what will be a shoot out the four tries will take care of themselves.

Which is all great information, but the whole point of the debate was that it would be a good thing if Japan didn't get a BP against Samoa which you apparently think isn't that big a deal...

It would be a huge boost if they didn't and make our job slightly less complicated.

I'm not saying we need to radically change out gameplan or approach anything differently - I'm just saying it would be a good thing if we don't have to get a BP win. Which is true!

be even better if Samoa beat Japan!

Best of all if Ireland and Japan's next matches are Typhooned off.

Come on boys.

Set your sights a bit higher.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/26194618

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49304310

miaow wrote:Come on boys.

Set your sights a bit higher.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/26194618

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49304310

No!