Scotland v Samoa - Monday 30th September 11:15 KO (BST)

by **NeilyBroon** Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:31 am

First topic message reminder :

So to stop myself contemplating who could be a good replacement for Toonie, I've decided to start a match thread.

Scotland

Samoa

Previous 4 meetings
2012 (Apia)
Sam 16-17 Sco
2013 (Durban)
Sam 27-17 Sco
2015 (RWC)
Sam 33-36 Sco
2017 (Murrayfield)
Sco 44-38 Sam

by **rodders** Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:08 am

RDW wrote:Sounds like there might be a few post game bans - most people saying the yellows could easily have been reds.

I'd say that is a good bet!

by Scottrf Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:20 am

jimbopip wrote:
RDW wrote:Sounds like there might be a few post game bans - most people saying the yellows could easily have been reds.

I believe a player can only be cited if the ref misses the incident. If he penalised it in any way then action has been taken.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

by **RDW** Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:21 am

Yeah was going to say - I'm sure I remember instances of yellow cards being turned into reds. Can't remember any specific examples though.

by Brendan Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:30 am

I thought that on field decisions could only be reduced not increased because the ref has dealt with the incident. One would need to show the ref/TMO missed something.

Will Samoa care anyway. They won the game they needed. They didn't have to play with 13 men for very long. They got their TBP. Will lose players for the Scotland game they didn't target and will be good to go against Japan

by Scottrf Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:30 am

"Citing Commissioners may cite players for an act(s) of foul play detected by the Match Officials (referee, assistant referee or TMO) and which may have been the subject of referee action. As a general rule, the Citing Commissioner should carefully consider the actions taken by the Match Officials and support the on-field decision and only consider taking action if it is ‘clear and obvious’, based on all the evidence available to the Citing Commissioner post-match, that the player actions justify a citing (red card equivalent) or Citing Commissioner Warning."

https://officiating.worldrugby.org/?module=6&section=48&subsection=162&language=en

So the question is whether the red would be clear and obvious. If it's yellow/red borderline they may support the on-field decision.

by Brendan Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:34 am

Scottrf wrote:"Citing Commissioners may cite players for an act(s) of foul play detected by the Match Officials (referee, assistant referee or TMO) and which may have been the subject of referee action. As a general rule, the Citing Commissioner should carefully consider the actions taken by the Match Officials and support the on-field decision and only consider taking action if it is ‘clear and obvious’, based on all the evidence available to the Citing Commissioner post-match, that the player actions justify a citing (red card equivalent) or Citing Commissioner Warning."

https://officiating.worldrugby.org/?module=6&section=48&subsection=162&language=en

So the question is whether the red would be clear and obvious. If it's yellow/red borderline they may support the on-field decision.

And the ref/TMO said the player dropped down so the citing commissioner would need to say they were wrong which again the defence would be he did even if slightly.

by Scottrf Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:36 am

What player stays in the same upright position in the 5 seconds before being tackled though?

by **LondonTiger** Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:40 am

Poite and the TMO discussed the first incident calmly following the framework. I would be very surprised if that was overturned. cannot comment on the second as I did not see it.

by **rodders** Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:18 am

LondonTiger wrote:Poite and the TMO discussed the first incident calmly following the framework. I would be very surprised if that was overturned. cannot comment on the second as I did not see it.

The second one looked worse, in fact the Samoan hooker seemed to KO himself. I thought it would be red but obviously they deemed the Russian player was dipping.

The problem is players are nearly always going to take a low body position into contact, I'm not sure how much this can be deemed as mitigation.

I think the IRB have made a mistake by making the starting point a red card.

by jimbopip Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:53 am

If they look into these incidents they will open a whole ugly can of worms.

They both should have been reds. Both were dangerous, in outcome and intent. Both were shoulder first, no arm tackles. Leelo makes a belated attempt to put his arms around the full back but it is after the shoulder to the face impact of the tackle. The Samoan hooker throws himself head first at the full back (two very dangerous tackles in a couple of minutes on the same player begs the question of coincidence or targeting) with no possibility of wrapping his arms around him.
If a review decides either , or worse both, of them are reds can Poite referee again in this tournament?
Should the result of the match stand? I find it difficult to believe that Samoa would have recorded a bonus point win if they played half the match with 13 players.
If either Japan or Scotland fail to reach the QF's because Samoa have one point more than them have they recourse to appeal?
Of equal importance is the fact that the Samoan hooker looked to have knocked himself out: a head knock in the tackle and then a nasty whiplash with the back of his head on the turf. He should never have been allowed back on the field. The footage seemed to show a pitch side medic/doctor trying to persuade him to go for a HIA and the player ignoring him while a member of the Samoan coaching staff stood beside him at best not assisting the medic , at worst colluding with the player.

The refereeing so far has been poor but today was very poor. So poor that it will be dealt with behind closed doors.

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:10 pm

So what's everyone's tactics for watching this at work?

It's a doubly distracting morning for me as my sister as due to give birth to my nephew #2 any minute. The baby boy's name is still TBC so a good performance today from any player might push their name into the reckoning. Can't wait to meet my new nephew Willem Finn Greig Hoggy when he's born!

by Old Man Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:14 pm

Nice combination that, Has there ever been a Scot with the first name Willem? Very Happy

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:17 pm

I think you'll find Willem Petrus William Wallace Nel is as Scottish as they come now!

by Old Man Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:22 pm

Was thinking William Wallace, perhaps they will spell it Willem byt pronounce it William

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:45 pm

How are the nerves?

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:47 pm

by bsando Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:47 pm

Maybe Shrek will come on and score a crucial BP winning try RDW Wink

Reckon we can beat these guys? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcUJtu9mbpM

Jokes aside, Scotland need to just go for it today and win the game first and foremost. Glad to hear McInally say they won't be chasing bonus points.

by SecretFly Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:01 pm

Just hope the kid doesn't get officially named Furfuks Ache in the heat of battle going on on the hospital TV.

by EST Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:51 pm

I have a horrible feeling about this game...

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:53 pm

I'm quietly confident for some reason! Doesn't sit well with me...

If we lose this game Townsend and his coaches may as well walk after - they can't say they haven't been warned after the Ireland game and have had plenty time to prepare for this one.

by Duty281 Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:20 pm

Scotland will be fine. Unless Samoa drag them into an ugly street brawl of a game. Then it could be tricky.

by EST Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:21 pm

RDW wrote:I'm quietly confident for some reason! Doesn't sit well with me...

If we lose this game Townsend and his coaches may as well walk after - they can't say they haven't been warned after the Ireland game and have had plenty time to prepare for this one.

Agreed on the latter part. I mean, we really should win this game - but the players and coaches have sounded shell-shocked since the Ireland game, just not sure if they have it in them to tough it out.

by takethelongroad Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:27 pm

Ok worried now, apparently humidity is through the roof - and the roof is closed. This will test the fitness claims thoroughly.

by hugehandoff Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:27 pm

As an England supporter I think Scotland will be fine with this match. They have bounced back well from recent bad defeats and will be fired up to make amends. Add in that Samoa are not as strong as previous teams they have had at RWCs and the players missing through suspension and Scotland will ease home by 25 points after a tight first half.

by tigertattie Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:37 pm

I was going to be watching this on the big tele but the bloody boss has decided to take the afternoon off so I'm having to go in for a meeting in the morning.

Bloody bosses have no respect!

by **BigGee** Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:46 pm

Well our last full day in Sicily, just been for a cappuccino in the sjn znd a nice refreshing swim in the sea. Life is good!

How the rest of the day goes is largely out of my hands however.

Please boys, give us a good send off!

by **Afro** Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:50 pm

Looking forward to the game today. Scotland should be too good I think, but also think the odds on Samoa (11/2) or a 16 point head start, are very generous.

by SecretFly Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:50 pm

It's just a damn pool that has to be fought with the white heat rage of the play-off stages.

Ireland found that out the hard way. You can't fecking save energy for later 'big' games. You can't micromanage a future that isn't written.
You just have to play Samoa like it's a semi final. Players have to put their bodies into it and virtually sacrifice themselves to fate. If Scotland makes it through, but some of the individual players don't, then they'll have still contributed meaningfully to this WC. I think the fear of losing can be crippling. Better the anger of deciding to win.

by 123456789. Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:07 pm

Starting to worry that my flutter on Scotland by 30 might have been overambitious.

by **Afro** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:11 pm

123456789. wrote:Starting to worry that my flutter on Scotland by 30 might have been overambitious.

Have faith in your gut feel. I might even follow your lead and do something similar. Have a little to burn as I did a couple of random bets last night that came in (1st two in the women's 100m final and then Tampa is beat Rams in NFL)

by bsando Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:14 pm

I think a lot of Japan fans will be watching this game too

by **Pal Joey** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:18 pm

The French ref has been pretty good thus far... Whistle

by westisbest Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:20 pm

Good early ball to Graham. That guy is exciting to watch.

by 123456789. Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:21 pm

Interesting the Samoan players flying in at Darcy Graham as he ran. Not sure how many arms were involved.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:22 pm

Has Dell waxed his legs?

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:28 pm

Was called out to a site visit so only just made it back - ITV on my computer in the background!

Did I miss much?

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:32 pm

In case you were wondering it’s incredibly humid in the stadium! What a stadium though, very impressive

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:33 pm

Oh God is Gordon Reid going to have to last 68 minutes in this heat and humidity??

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:33 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:In case you were wondering it’s incredibly humid in the stadium! What a stadium though, very impressive

And by this I mean I’m sweating my tits off!

by hugehandoff Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:38 pm

Terrible quality so far but obviously very tough, hot , humid and slippery conditions.

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:39 pm

Pretty cagey so far but we've been dominant - hopefully Samoa tire out long before we do.

Could do with an early try from all this pressure.

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:42 pm

Conditions are really tough - not going to help our push for the BP we desperately need.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:43 pm

Russell seems to be struggling atm.

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:44 pm

Common with him then he'll do something outrageous and we'll be calling him a genius again!

by **NeilyBroon** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:44 pm

Well if we can keep samoa nilled for the first forty that'd do us the world of good but we also need a try badly.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:47 pm

Hm. Its better than last week but we're also better than 10 years ago.

‍

by SecretFly Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Russell seems to be struggling atm.

He is struggling because he seems to have been given orders to be 'conservative'. That kills his soul!

by **NeilyBroon** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:49 pm

Ritchie the pick of the squad so far

by **RDW** Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:51 pm

Maitland looking sharp

I'm worried this is so close - we need to pull away in the 2nd half. Samoa can score any time.

by SecretFly Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:51 pm

Due to the heat, seems to be a game waiting for a more hectic second half.

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