Australia v Wales - 29/9/19, RWC, k/o 8:45 GMT - Match Thread - Aus 25-29 Wales

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Massive game this. Surely decides who wins Pool D and - at this stage - avoids both NZ and England in the knock-outs.

A real 50:50, too close to call game for me.



Wales : L Williams; North, Jonathan Davies, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, G Davies; Wyn Jones, Owens, Francis, Ball, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Wainwright, Tipuric, Navidi.
Replacements: Smith, Dee, Lewis, Shingler, Moriarty, T Williams, Patchell, Watkin.


Australia : Haylett-Petty; Ashley-Cooper, O'Connor, Kerevi, Koroibete; Foley, Genia; Sio, Latu, Alaalatoa, Rodda, Arnold, Pocock, Hooper (capt), Naisarani.
Replacements: Uelese, Slipper, Kepu, Coleman, Salakaia-Loto, White, To'omua, Beale.

Officials: Referee, Romain Poite (France) GOOD LUCK EVERYONE; Assistant referees, Luke Pearce (England), Karl Dickson (England); TMO Ben Skeen (New Zealand).

[Old Man]

Well lads,

What can I say, that was a fantastic performance by Wales. To hold off a rampant Aussie Attack in the second half was massively impressive. How good did the Aussies look when Toomua came on at 10...

AWJ has some motor on him, constantly hungry and a superb leader on the field.

Any word on if Hooper is/wil be cited for his late challenge on Biggar?

Wales were smart, Biggars two drop goals was genius, it put Wales on the front foot early in the game, then Wales kept the scoreboard ticking over.

Regardless of whether the Wallabies felt hard done by or not, Wales took every opportunity available.

[mikey_dragon]

Anyone still think Gatland is a poor coach??

Everyone in Scotland?

[LondonTiger]

Well lads,

What can I say, that was a fantastic performance by Wales. To hold off a rampant Aussie Attack in the second half was massively impressive. How good did the Aussies look when Toomua came on at 10...

AWJ has some motor on him, constantly hungry and a superb leader on the field.

Any word on if Hooper is/wil be cited for his late challenge on Biggar?

Wales were smart, Biggars two drop goals was genius, it put Wales on the front foot early in the game, then Wales kept the scoreboard ticking over.

Regardless of whether the Wallabies felt hard done by or not, Wales took every opportunity available.

Thought Patchell got the second

[Old Man]

Well lads,

What can I say, that was a fantastic performance by Wales. To hold off a rampant Aussie Attack in the second half was massively impressive. How good did the Aussies look when Toomua came on at 10...

AWJ has some motor on him, constantly hungry and a superb leader on the field.

Any word on if Hooper is/wil be cited for his late challenge on Biggar?

Wales were smart, Biggars two drop goals was genius, it put Wales on the front foot early in the game, then Wales kept the scoreboard ticking over.

Regardless of whether the Wallabies felt hard done by or not, Wales took every opportunity available.

Thought Patchell got the second

Could be

[Guest]

Biggar missed one, Patch got 2nd start of 2nd half.

[Guest]

Yeah its not a nice way to score but you have too, at least we offer spectacular variations. long flat sideways kick passes. Weve mastered it, but its getting boring.

The tries we have scored though included passing and handling no other side is capable of.

Can someone be banned for being so consistently wrong?

[Guest]

Any word on if Hooper is/wil be cited for his late challenge on Biggar?

Highly doubt it, if only because the Australian's wrath would spew out like we haven't seen before. Amazing they're getting away with what they've done post and pre match. Their own journalists should call out their ignorance of the laws - it's a classic case of bully tactics, rule through fear.

It's a clear yellow, but not a red. So he won't be banned. No point being cited.

[Old Man]

Any word on if Hooper is/wil be cited for his late challenge on Biggar?

Highly doubt it, if only because the Australian's wrath would spew out like we haven't seen before. Amazing they're getting away with what they've done post and pre match. Their own journalists should call out their ignorance of the laws - it's a classic case of bully tactics, rule through fear.

It's a clear yellow, but not a red. So he won't be banned. No point being cited.

Come on, the circumstances of the Hooper tackle is Biggar fell into Hooper, Hooper was stationary and braced himself for contact. You can’t seriously consider a stationary player with a player coming in at force with a high tackle.

[funnyExiledScot]

Anyone still think Gatland is a poor coach??

Everyone in Scotland?

Not me! I think he's outstanding, and if Scottish players want to feature for the Lions then we need to start beating Tier 1 teams away from home. End of.

[TightHEAD]

Are all the Welsh players back in the dressing room and accounted for?

Just concerned as some of them were a long way offside.



Its a joke, calm down Peeps!

[LondonTiger]

Are all the Welsh players back in the dressing room and accounted for?

Just concerned as some of them were a long way offside.



Its a joke, calm down Peeps!  

I know that LD has just made (in effect) the same joke on the Scottish board. TBH neither are terribly amusing.

[TightHEAD]

I found LD's post amusing.  

Rugby culture is built on the ability to have a pint and a laugh after a game, maybe the ones complaining should lighten up?

[LondonTiger]

I found LD's post amusing.  

Rugby culture is built on the ability to have a pint and a laugh after a game, maybe the ones complaining should lighten up?

Maybe, but I refer you to the Message sent to you last week and posting style.

[Heaf]

Yeah its not a nice way to score but you have too, at least we offer spectacular variations. long flat sideways kick passes. Weve mastered it, but its getting boring.

The tries we have scored though included passing and handling no other side is capable of.

Can someone be banned for being so consistently wrong?

Maybe he means no other side would be capable of getting away with so many forward passes or being in front of the kicker for their tries

[Guest]

Any word on if Hooper is/wil be cited for his late challenge on Biggar?

Highly doubt it, if only because the Australian's wrath would spew out like we haven't seen before. Amazing they're getting away with what they've done post and pre match. Their own journalists should call out their ignorance of the laws - it's a classic case of bully tactics, rule through fear.

It's a clear yellow, but not a red. So he won't be banned. No point being cited.

Come on, the circumstances of the Hooper tackle is Biggar fell into Hooper, Hooper was stationary and braced himself for contact. You can’t seriously consider a stationary player with a player coming in at force with a high tackle.

You need to rewatch it. Otherwise you're embarrasssing yourself. He didn't fall in to contact. That's like when Suarez claimed his teeth hurt because the player 'fell in to' his face. Come on...jut watch it again. He shoulder smashes him off the ball. Clear yellow, but apparently not if you're Wallabies captain.

[Old Man]

Any word on if Hooper is/wil be cited for his late challenge on Biggar?

Highly doubt it, if only because the Australian's wrath would spew out like we haven't seen before. Amazing they're getting away with what they've done post and pre match. Their own journalists should call out their ignorance of the laws - it's a classic case of bully tactics, rule through fear.

It's a clear yellow, but not a red. So he won't be banned. No point being cited.

Come on, the circumstances of the Hooper tackle is Biggar fell into Hooper, Hooper was stationary and braced himself for contact. You can’t seriously consider a stationary player with a player coming in at force with a high tackle.

You need to rewatch it. Otherwise you're embarrasssing yourself. He didn't fall in to contact. That's like when Suarez claimed his teeth hurt because the player 'fell in to' his face. Come on...jut watch it again. He shoulder smashes him off the ball. Clear yellow, but apparently not if you're Wallabies captain.

Don’t get personal sunny boy, Biggar was off balance, Hooper was stationary.

[Guest]

I'm going to find you a clip so you can apologise. You're wrong.

[Old Man]

Please do, and keep the insults to yourself next time

[TightHEAD]

Has Hooper been cited, surely he will be?

[LondonTiger]

Can people wind back on the antagonism please.

[Old Man]

No antagonism here LD.

Just politely debating a point of contention.

[Guest]

Nothing personal on my part. Unless by personal you mean the fact I've referred to you directly. You've taken it to heart - no issue with you, you're just wrong.

Unfortunately WR has decided to omit the Hooper offence from their official highlights. Perhaps unsurprisingly...

[Guest]

https://twitter.com/GarethReesXV/status/1178521890077515776

[mikey_dragon]

Didn't Hooper dip the shoulder? I can't quite remember, but I thought penalty/YC at the time.

[Guest]

Here we go. Perfect.

https://twitter.com/Coombs_A/status/1178289373583958016

Clear yellow. Moves in to him with force, bumping him off when he could not only have got out of the way, but could have also softened his body and brought him to ground.

You're being deliberately obtuse if you've played the game.

It's an openside flanker 'softening up' the #10. You'd hope pro rugby would deal with that in the proper way these days if te 7 can't manage if legally, which he couldn't.

Not only that, but a shoulder charge to an off balance, unbraced body is literally dangerous. Scum bag move by a team that clearly has scum bag morals based on the wake of their loss.

[mikey_dragon]

It's with instances like the Hooper challenge on Biggar, forearm smash to Patchell, the Aus infringements for their first two tries, plus the multiple blocking, that leads me to question the sanity of Cheika and many other Aussies whinging about this performance. At least when I supposedly whinge I have evidence to back up my claims, claims as such backed up by the laws of WR.

[LondonTiger]

One man's evidence is another man's opinion. We are all very good at picking up infringements by the opposition but much slower to spot our own. Wales were offside a lot, but so were Australia. Australia may have had blockers, Wales may have had forward passes.

We have people looking at the exact same incidents and coming up with different opinions. I agree with miaow in reference to the Hooper challenge, I disagree with him on the Biggar challenge. The ref and TMO disagreed with me on both.

Arguably that makes me a 100% idiot and miaow only a 50% idiot.

[Guest]

Cheika knows what he's doing.

He's stealing the show. He's the big story for journalists, so not only are they not reporting on how Wales outplayed them for 40 minutes, and then did enough in the last 10 to get over the line and hold out for the win...

...but now they're talking about the Kerevi tackle.

Not Hooper. Not the harsh penalty for Adams. The Kerevi tackle, and blaming it on Patchell.

"Naawww, mayte, ya brought it on yerself byyy tacklin too bladdy hiiiiygh"

[eirebilly]

Here we go. Perfect.

https://twitter.com/Coombs_A/status/1178289373583958016

Clear yellow. Moves in to him with force, bumping him off when he could not only have got out of the way, but could have also softened his body and brought him to ground.

What I don't get is, where is the line drawn? Had Hooper have made contact with Biggar's head its a Red Card. The intent to hurt was there as far as I am concerned. For me Hooper is either very lucky not to make contact with Biggar's head or it was a perfectly timed cynical challenge. I think in both cases a citing and a ban should follow.

This was not simply a case of Biggar running into Hooper but of Hooper dropping the shoulder into Biggar which was totally avoidable.

[Scottrf]

Yeah I was amazed at penalty only for that one. I think ref's are obsessed with looking for mitigation and need to view the tackle as a whole. It's a ridiculous challenge that had no chance of being legal, clear yellow.

[mikey_dragon]

One man's evidence is another man's opinion. We are all very good at picking up infringements by the opposition but much slower to spot our own. Wales were offside a lot, but so were Australia. Australia may have had blockers, Wales may have had forward passes.

We have people looking at the exact same incidents and coming up with different opinions. I agree with miaow in reference to the Hooper challenge, I disagree with him on the Biggar challenge. The ref and TMO disagreed with me on both.

Arguably that makes me a 100% idiot and miaow only a 50% idiot.

There are opinions and then there are facts. Only a 100% idiot would disagree with the factual evidence I've posted in recent weeks, or an Irishman. The studio even checked to see if Gareth Davies was on side for his intercept try, which he was without doubt. The Aussies are still claiming he was offside. Kerevi leads with the forearm backed up by more factual evidence, they're trying to say it was Patchell's doing. Hooper was a late shoulder charge, lucky to escape a YC. These are all facts.

I don't recall a Wales forward pass going unnoticed, I certainly don't remember us benefitting from one with a try, unlike the Wallabies. I think they should have both been looked at. If the 12 scored a try from that Tipuric block then it's likely it would have been disallowed - having gained the ground and created more space from this they were able to score from a Crossfield kick. Genia's pass was forward and they score one phase later. Given the circumstances IE phase play was allowed to continue, it's hard to say that both would have been disallowed fact, but it is likely. That's a 14 point swing FFS.

I don't remember the Biggar tackle, if anyone would also care to post that.

[Scottrf]

Honestly, I can't remember the last post from mikey without some sort of xenophobic element...

[mikey_dragon]

I mean I'm not singling anyone out, but you'd have to be an idiot to disagree with fact-based evidence, which is what the Irish did in the warm-ups, and what the Aussies have been doing since Sunday. I think that's fair to say when it's all over the internet. Are the mods okay with false accusations from pretentious people? That's a new one I must say.

[LondonTiger]

One man's evidence is another man's opinion. We are all very good at picking up infringements by the opposition but much slower to spot our own. Wales were offside a lot, but so were Australia. Australia may have had blockers, Wales may have had forward passes.

We have people looking at the exact same incidents and coming up with different opinions. I agree with miaow in reference to the Hooper challenge, I disagree with him on the Biggar challenge. The ref and TMO disagreed with me on both.

Arguably that makes me a 100% idiot and miaow only a 50% idiot.

There are opinions and then there are facts. Only a 100% idiot would disagree with the factual evidence I've posted in recent weeks, 

Well I must a 100% idiot as suggested before. I do not view what you produced around scrums as facts, merely your interpretation of the events that unfolded. An interpretation that can be fairly challenged and an interpretation that flies in the face of what a variety of refs thought.

[SecretFly]

...I must be just Irish. A higher class of idiot I hear

[Old Man]

Well you get idiots and then you get a$$holes.

[LondonTiger]

I mean I'm not singling anyone out, but you'd have to be an idiot to disagree with fact-based evidence, which is what the Irish did in the warm-ups, and what the Aussies have been doing since Sunday. I think that's fair to say when it's all over the internet. Are the mods okay with false accusations from pretentious people? That's a new one I must say.

We cannot moderate Michael Cheika, sorry.

[TightHEAD]

Don't think Biggar remembers the tackle either!

The Kerevi/Patchell incident was ok for me, it happens every game players pushing off the tackler with the forearm but he did make contact with the neck. right call on the field.

As for Hooper he has to be cited, the onfield decision was poor and he should have been yellow carded.

[eirebilly]

Well you get idiots and then you get a$$holes.

Ah here now, don't be too hard on yourself. I am sure you're a stand up gentleman away from the keyboard

[mikey_dragon]

I do not view what you produced around scrums as facts, merely your interpretation of the events that unfolded. An interpretation that can be fairly challenged and an interpretation that flies in the face of what a variety of refs thought.

You should perhaps refer to the laws, and then the evidence that was posted then. What a surprise, we were talking about French refs before the world cup, and right now. I guess mikey isn't so crazy after all.... mikey called it.

[Old Man]

Well you get idiots and then you get a$$holes.

Ah here now, don't be too hard on yourself. I am sure you're a stand up gentleman away from the keyboard

[LondonTiger]

I do not view what you produced around scrums as facts, merely your interpretation of the events that unfolded. An interpretation that can be fairly challenged and an interpretation that flies in the face of what a variety of refs thought.

You should perhaps refer to the laws, and then the evidence that was posted then. What a surprise, we were talking about French refs before the world cup, and right now. I guess mikey isn't so crazy after all.... mikey called it.

I looked at your "evidence" and did not see what you were describing in the vast majority of cases. Even when I did see that the Welshman was also committing an offence. Always depends what the ref looks for first. In most games the refs make mistakes and they tend to balance out. In the same way that Wayne Barnes does not victimise Ireland, the French refs are not victimising Wales. Rugby laws are complex, open to interpretation and frankly:

1) Both sides commit an offence of some sort at pretty much every ruck
2) Both sides commit an offence at pretty much every scrum
3) Both sides will be offside most of the time they are defending or when chasing a kick


Ref blaming and accusations of ref blaming crop up all the time on these boards - from a variety of people and pretty much all the time it is a biased viewpoint.

Poite did not favour Wales as Cheika seems to be suggesting. Nor did he favour Wales. He probably made a variety of mistakes from which both sides benefitted. Is Cheika being a dick? Yes 100%. That does not however give a free pass to any or all to behave in the same manner.

[Guest]

Yeah I was amazed at penalty only for that one. I think ref's are obsessed with looking for mitigation and need to view the tackle as a whole. It's a ridiculous challenge that had no chance of being legal, clear yellow.

I think the obsession is with the head.

"Ok, no head contact, so we can forget about a card..." - ignoringthe fact it's a cynical late shot off the ball, no arms, and is a textbook yellow card. Poor, poor work - and for all th TMO chat from the Aussies,they can thank Skeen for directing Poite away from a card there, as he literally told him what to give, and that set the tne for the rest of the game.

Poor.

[Pie]

I found LD's post amusing.  

Rugby culture is built on the ability to have a pint and a laugh after a game, maybe the ones complaining should lighten up?

Does Trolldom have its own team/forum?

[Guest]

I don't think the French refs are especially poor for Wales, but they ARE poor. This isn't xenophobia - it's just a product of how they run their league. Raynal reffed the warm up v Ireland in the same way he refs a French game; favouring the home team, rewarding the team in posession. It's just like going back to the amateur era, with lots of mistakes - some glaring - being missed as well.

Pascal G was very poor today in the Scotland game. Don't see this as a Welsh issue. Garces is the only one who comes up to standard for me, and he's prone to being aloof, obscure, and incorrect at times as well.

Lots of pressure on refs though. An unenviable task in the modern game - with social media etc. piling the pressure on. I can't think of a sport where the ref has such an impact/role in the game as rugby. NFL/Gridiron is very cut and dry - not much interpretation, and lots of refs/assistants. Pressure on the officials, yes, but not in the same way.

For WR to come out and make the statement it did, it literally doesn't help. Deal in house. Because it legitimises what Cheika is doing now, sadly - they can't slap a fine on him without him turning around and pointing to what they said a week or however long ago.

Thought it was a mistake taking 4 French refs, personally, due to how differently they interpret the game compared to any other country, and it's proving to be a headline grabber. Poite's failure yesterday wasn't just his own, though. Can't help but feel this mix and match approach to TMO and ref doesn't help.

[mikey_dragon]

I do not view what you produced around scrums as facts, merely your interpretation of the events that unfolded. An interpretation that can be fairly challenged and an interpretation that flies in the face of what a variety of refs thought.

You should perhaps refer to the laws, and then the evidence that was posted then. What a surprise, we were talking about French refs before the world cup, and right now. I guess mikey isn't so crazy after all.... mikey called it.

I looked at your "evidence" and did not see what you were describing in the vast majority of cases. Even when I did see that the Welshman was also committing an offence. Always depends what the ref looks for first. In most games the refs make mistakes and they tend to balance out. In the same way that Wayne Barnes does not victimise Ireland, the French refs are not victimising Wales. Rugby laws are complex, open to interpretation and frankly:

1) Both sides commit an offence of some sort at pretty much every ruck
2) Both sides commit an offence at pretty much every scrum
3) Both sides will be offside most of the time they are defending or when chasing a kick


Ref blaming and accusations of ref blaming crop up all the time on these boards - from a variety of people and pretty much all the time it is a biased viewpoint.

Poite did not favour Wales as Cheika seems to be suggesting. Nor did he favour Wales. He probably made a variety of mistakes from which both sides benefitted. Is Cheika being a dick? Yes 100%. That does not however give a free pass to any or all to behave in the same manner.

If you looked at my evidence then you would have seen the Irish do the bolded bits, whilst they did all of it at some point in the game (apart from C):

37. Dangerous play in a scrum includes:
a. A front-row charging against the opposition.
b. Pulling an opponent.
c. Intentionally lifting an opponent off their feet or forcing them upwards out of the scrum.
d. Intentionally collapsing a scrum.
e. Intentionally falling or kneeling.

I think we can agree that all teams do it, but Ireland must have done it 10 times in both matches and were wrongfully awarded the penalty. That's very poor. I said these French ref's were not fit for this level, now it turns out everyone as well as World Rugby are questioning these ref's as well as highlighting their mistakes.

I've covered the bit on Cheika. It's unbelievable how he can think Wales were favoured when the lack of YCs and questionable 14 point swing for Aus indicates otherwise.

[SecretFly]

Questionable 14 point swing?

Excellent rugby is what I saw. No question about it. Not enough to win obviously but a burst of it to warn the onlooking teams that as usual, Australia ain't out of the mix yet

[Guest]

Agreed. As expected, Australia look like one of the best teams in the tournament, and some sloppy halfback play in both games aside, should test England if/when they get those 2 positions right.

[Pie]

They'll beat Eng in the 1/4s....thats assuming England make sure they top their group. I cant see any reason why the Rising Sons won't win the group now, can anyone else??

[majesticimperialman]

They'll beat Eng in the 1/4s....thats assuming England make sure they top their group. I cant see any reason why the Rising Sons won't win the group now, can anyone else??

What makes you think that? That Australia will beat England, please explain why you think Australia will beat will beat England?

[Sponsored content]