RWC final 19 - England v SA Match Thread - 02-11-2019 - Kick Off 09:00am

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

The big one. The Rugby World Cup Final.

ENGLAND

Elliot Daly; Anthony Watson, Manu Tuilagi, Owen Farrell, Jonny May, George Ford, Ben Youngs; Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler, Maro Itoje, Courtney Lawes, Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Billy Vunipola

Replacements: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Joe Marler, Dan Cole, George Kruis, Mark Wilson, Ben Spencer, Henry Slade, Jonathan Joseph

SOUTH AFRICA

Le Roux; Kolbe, Am, De Allende, Mapimpi; Pollard, De Klerk; Mtawarira, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, De Jager, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Marx, Kitschoff, Koch, Snyman, Mostert, Louw, H Jantjies, Steyn

Venue: International Stadium, Yokohama
Referee: Jerome Garces
AR1: Romain Poite
AR2: Ben O'Keefe
TMO: Ben Skeen

Head to Head

42 Played 42
15 Won 25
25 Lost 15
2 Drawn 2

Recent Form

16 June 2012
Ellis Park, Johannesburg
36 – 27 to South Africa

23 June 2012
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium,
Port Elizabeth
14 – 14 draw

24 November 2012
Twickenham, London
15 – 16 to South Africa

15 November 2014
Twickenham, London
28 – 31 to South Africa

12 November 2016
Twickenham, London
37 – 21 to England

9 June 2018
Ellis Park, Johannesburg
42 – 39 to South Africa

16 June 2018
Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein
23 – 12 to South Africa

23 June 2018
Newlands, Cape Town
10 – 25 to England

3 November 2018
Twickenham, London
12 – 11 to England

[lostinwales]

SA are still a blunt instrument. They'll keep scoring in 3's though

[Guest]

This is so physical. It's genuinely like NFL.

[RDW]

England making a right mess of that. Numerous occasions if they went left they had mismatches.

Lawes v Kolbe 5m out at one point!

[BigGee]

Fantastic defence by SA, England should have scored there

[Taylorman]

Well done Boks, impressive defence. Simple game alright.

[Old Man]

I hope SA also get such long penalty advantages in England 22

[Guest]

I was about to say good play Garces for allowing the second advantage to play for in on the side on the left wing...but apparently he was playing the same advantage! Dear me...crazy refereeing.

Tense old game. That will have SA blowing.

[BigGee]

Farrell takes the points

6 all

[majesticimperialman]

Great defence by the boks.

[alfie]

Wow. That was a heck of a few minutes : SA defence did well to hold that out...

Level again. But England might be concerned they couldn't get over the line then.

[Taylorman]

Reminds of Boks defence in Wellingtonbiltong, huge then as well.

[RDW]

I hope SA also get such long penalty advantages in England 22

Penalty advantage isn't time based it's if you make over 10m...

[Old Man]

SA are still a blunt instrument. They'll keep scoring in 3's though

England isn’t much sharper though, eh?

[Taylorman]

Pollard had better start practising drop goals at half time, because Farrell will have.

[Old Man]

Reminds of Boks defence in Wellingtonbiltong, huge then as well.

Yeah, just holding on.

[BigGee]

Pollard goes for a more difficult one this time

and nails it

9-6 SA

[Guest]

Surely it is also time based, RDW. If you're 5m out you'll have permanent advantage?! Until you knock it on etc.

This is basically equally physical teams. I still think SA will 'get' England on turnover ball at some point. Already seen Daly done in the air by Mapimpi. If Itoje hadn't been given a glorious target in Etzebeth to line up and smash, those positions could be capitalised on for SA.

6-9 SA lead.

[RDW]

Huge kick

[Taylorman]

Boks still all tryless in finals, amazing

[RDW]

Surely it is also time based, RDW. If you're 5m out you'll have permanent advantage?! Until you knock it on etc.

This is basically equally physical teams. I still think SA will 'get' England on turnover ball at some point. Already seen Daly done in the air by Mapimpi. If Itoje hadn't been given a glorious target in Etzebeth to line up and smash, those positions could be capitalised on for SA.

6-9 SA lead.

Nope - you have as long as you want as long as the ball is still being played

[Old Man]

Boks still all tryless in finals, amazing

Not for the lack of trying.

[Guest]

Surely it is also time based, RDW. If you're 5m out you'll have permanent advantage?! Until you knock it on etc.

This is basically equally physical teams. I still think SA will 'get' England on turnover ball at some point. Already seen Daly done in the air by Mapimpi. If Itoje hadn't been given a glorious target in Etzebeth to line up and smash, those positions could be capitalised on for SA.

6-9 SA lead.

Nope - you have as long as you want as long as the ball is still being played

I didn't kknow that. That's crazy.

[Guest]

Btw, anyone still think Vermeulen is still 108kg after his run from kick off? And anyone think the SA pack isn't absolutely massive!?

[Taylorman]

Eddies not smiling anymore.

[RDW]

Thoroughly deserved halftime lead for SA - England have been bloody awful.

So many mistakes and poor decisions.

[BigGee]

Another scrum penalty, English scrum got mashed again there

12-6 SA

[Guest]

England’s scrum getting humiliated

[Guest]

Dan Cole is terrible

[alfie]

SA right on top in that half but only leading by 6. Might have been rather more.

A lot of things going as I'd expected although I didn't think England would make so many errors. They've still looked the more likely to score tries but need to have a bit of a reset in the break...

[RDW]

Says it all that I haven't even noticed Ford, Farrell and Tuilagi are playing!

Early change Farrell to 10?

[Taylorman]

Boks still all tryless in finals, amazing

Not for the lack of trying.

Yes I know defensively especially. Now 200 minutes plus the 95 overtime for no tries whatsoever either side. Amazing.

[Old Man]

SA right on top in that half but only leading by 6. Might have been rather more.

A lot of things going as I'd expected although I didn't think England would make so many errors.  They've still looked the more likely to score tries but need to have a bit of a reset in the break...

Its a final, the underdogs will take any lead they can get

[TightHEAD]

Just want the ref to be consistent, he is terrible saffer hands on the floor can do no wrong

[Guest]

Definitely one for the purists. SA manage to drag another game in to an arm wrestle, and so far, they're winning.

Absolutely nothing to really panic about for England - but some worries. Namely that, yes, despite the short turnaround, SA are a tough physical prospect, and the set piece is wobbling.

However, England have shown all they need is the ball in the Boks' half and they will create opportunities. England have a running and kicking game to fall back on if needs be. This is still on a knife edge.

If England can avoid turning the ball over in attack and allowing SA in - like from that fumbled exit from Faf towards the end which ended up in 3 points 50m down the field - then they are right in this as SA don't really look like scoring a try any other way.

[yappysnap]

I have often not rated Youngs, and tonight he is terrible. Should be one of our leaders and he is single handedly throwing this game away.

[majesticimperialman]

Well, totally different game to last week. England in a real arm wrestle, still only 6 points down at half time. Still 40 minutes to go.

[Guest]

Says it all that I haven't even noticed Ford, Farrell and Tuilagi are playing!

Early change Farrell to 10?

I'd think so. 45 mins. Ford off...Joseph to 13? Tough choice to make there. Slade or Joseph. Might keep Ford on a little longer and try something with the 2 10s, and then change it if it doesn't work. Having Ford on makes them a much bigger threat in attack and they're trailing now, and need tries - it would be negative to haul Ford off too soon.

[Heaf]

Garces gives pen for holding on when SA actually get the ball whilst nothing when Itoje is tugging on it for about 3 seconds with the SA player holding on ... no consistency.

[Taylorman]

England have been dragged into the Bok game more and more as the game went on. In trying to escape it England are starting to panic. Physically Boks are all over England.

Bok fitness is going to be crucial, and based on some earlier tests this year they finished very strongly.

[Guest]

I have often not rated Youngs, and tonight he is terrible. Should be one of our leaders and he is single handedly throwing this game away.

He really isn't. SA win games through the forwards. The same is happening here today.

[mikey_dragon]

Boks are very strong, england doing well in the collisions though.

Is it time to reduce the amount of games at a World Cup by adding an extra pool? Considering the amount of games played in a year then some guys just get ruined. The injuries are adding up and some careers are at risk.

[Old Man]

Definitely one for the purists. SA manage to drag another game in to an arm wrestle, and so far, they're winning.

Absolutely nothing to really panic about for England - but some worries. Namely that, yes, despite the short turnaround, SA are a tough physical prospect, and the set piece is wobbling.

However, England have shown all they need is the ball in the Boks' half and they will create opportunities. England have a running and kicking game to fall back on if needs be. This is still on a knife edge.

If England can avoid turning the ball over in attack and allowing SA in - like from that fumbled exit from Faf towards the end which ended up in 3 points 50m down the field - then they are right in this as SA don't really look like scoring a try any other way.

Yeah, nah, disagree, SA have been looking good with ball in hand.

[RDW]

Replay showing again how blinkered Youngs was when pounding on their line

[Taylorman]

Fafs all over Young’s as well. Watching the replays he confused Young’s enough to make him throw the ball out by getting in behind the decoy runners. Classic.

[yappysnap]

Anyone else feel like we're back in 2007? Error-Scrum-penalty-points. Over and over again. And a ref that is clueless enough to allow anything.

[Old Man]

Eddie will be smart to get to uncontested scrums. It worked for Italy

[Guest]

Definitely one for the purists. SA manage to drag another game in to an arm wrestle, and so far, they're winning.

Absolutely nothing to really panic about for England - but some worries. Namely that, yes, despite the short turnaround, SA are a tough physical prospect, and the set piece is wobbling.

However, England have shown all they need is the ball in the Boks' half and they will create opportunities. England have a running and kicking game to fall back on if needs be. This is still on a knife edge.

If England can avoid turning the ball over in attack and allowing SA in - like from that fumbled exit from Faf towards the end which ended up in 3 points 50m down the field - then they are right in this as SA don't really look like scoring a try any other way.

Yeah, nah, disagree, SA have been looking good with ball in hand.

They've looked ok, but they've knocked it on and coughed it up just as much as England have done in the middle third. Crucially, they didn't put together a 20-odd phase attack in the 22 like England did. Fair play to SA's defence there, but I think it will be in broken field alone where SA's backs shine.

[Heaf]

Yep - not helped by losing Sinkler in the first 2 minutes ... Cole for 80 - oh dear

[Guest]

England look more comfortable with ball in hand imo

[No name Bertie]

Is this a case of England lose Kyle Sinckler, England lose the match? SA are more or less getting points on every scrum within kickable distance.

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