World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
+13
Soul Requiem
protea438
Afro
bluestonevedder
tigertattie
Gooseberry
Cyril
Pal Joey
Taylorman
Pie
Old Man
SecretFly
majesticimperialman
17 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
First topic message reminder :
2019
NOVEMBER
SUNDAY 3RD
I looked at the world Rankings, at it said SA 1 NZ 2 ENG 3RD.
I thought England would be 2nd, after they (England) Beat NZ
is THIS RIGHT OR DOES IT NEED UPDATING.?
dISCUSS.
FULL RANKINGS
Men's Rankings
Updated: 02 November, 2019
2019
NOVEMBER
SUNDAY 3RD
I looked at the world Rankings, at it said SA 1 NZ 2 ENG 3RD.
I thought England would be 2nd, after they (England) Beat NZ
is THIS RIGHT OR DOES IT NEED UPDATING.?
dISCUSS.
FULL RANKINGS
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| [size=13][size=10][size=13][size=10]80.88[/size][/size][/size][/size] | [size=13][size=10][size=13][size=10] [/size][/size][/size][/size] | |
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| [size=13][size=10][size=13][size=10]79.28[/size][/size][/size][/size] | [size=13][size=10][size=13][size=10] [/size][/size][/size][/size] | |
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| [size=13][size=10][size=13][size=10]79.23[/size][/size][/size][/size] | [size=13][size=10][size=13][size=10] [/size][/size][/size][/size] | |
[size=13][b][size=10][b][size=13][b][size=10][b]10[/b][/size][/b][/size][/b][/size][/b][/size] |
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| [size=13][size=10][size=13][size=10]78.31[/size][/size][/size][/size] | [size=13][size=10][size=13][size=10] [/size][/size][/size][/size] |
VIEW FULL RANKINGS
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Fair enough, Taylorman. I take it back. Miaow does tend to bring out the worst in everyone
Cyril- Posts : 7162
Join date : 2012-11-16
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Taylorman wrote:Current trophy holders in tier one that I know of...:
Boks: WCup, Rugby Championship
Wales: 6N, Triple Crown
NZ: Bledsiloe cup (v Oz), Dave Gallaher cup (v France), Hillary Shield (v England), Freedom cup (v SA)
Scotland: Calcutta cup (v England), 5 nations (forever holders since 1999), Hopetoun cup (v Oz)
England: Cooke cup (v Oz)
Ireland/ France/ Argie/ Oz/ Italy...
SA also hold the Raeburn Shield - This title is played for each time the current holder plays someone. For example if SA next play Oz and Oz win that game, the title passes to Oz who would in turn put it up against whoever they play next.
tigertattie- Posts : 9581
Join date : 2011-07-11
Location : On the naughty step
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
miaow wrote:Taylorman wrote:Well they invented all three so you’d think they’d be good at them. None of the rugby world countries take all three as seriously as England do anyway. South Africa and Oz do with two and are average at football, the rest either don’t play cricket or Footballet enough to be contenders.
thanks for needlessly repeating this ...
Where have I repeated this before? Never, so get off my posts.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
tigertattie wrote:Taylorman wrote:Current trophy holders in tier one that I know of...:
Boks: WCup, Rugby Championship
Wales: 6N, Triple Crown
NZ: Bledsiloe cup (v Oz), Dave Gallaher cup (v France), Hillary Shield (v England), Freedom cup (v SA)
Scotland: Calcutta cup (v England), 5 nations (forever holders since 1999), Hopetoun cup (v Oz)
England: Cooke cup (v Oz)
Ireland/ France/ Argie/ Oz/ Italy...
SA also hold the Raeburn Shield - This title is played for each time the current holder plays someone. For example if SA next play Oz and Oz win that game, the title passes to Oz who would in turn put it up against whoever they play next.
Yes that’s how most of those work. The Bledisloe is often over three tests though.
Sorry, just read it again so rather than remove will correct...if that’s the case then yes as bluestone says that’s a really good way of doing it.
We have the Ranfurly shield at national level which at one point was our main, and only trophy played for nationally.
There were some iconic matches in the 60s to 80s, when unbelievably Auckland defended it 63 times straight from 85-93, one record that will never be broken. 10 or 15 is considered a decent run. Other comps that involve sides more across the board have risen above its importance but it’s still there.
But internationally it would be an idea to have a higher profile instance of the same. The issues with it are that it’s possibly difficult to promote long term as it ‘could be anywhere’.
But it could ‘spike’ last minute sales if it were sold in a way that winning it carried weight, an AI match for example if played for a highly sought after trophy could add flavour to what is otherwise a series of one offs that don’t have anything on them other than bragging rights and rankings. Dollar matches.
Last edited by Taylorman on Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
tigertattie wrote:Taylorman wrote:Current trophy holders in tier one that I know of...:
Boks: WCup, Rugby Championship
Wales: 6N, Triple Crown
NZ: Bledsiloe cup (v Oz), Dave Gallaher cup (v France), Hillary Shield (v England), Freedom cup (v SA)
Scotland: Calcutta cup (v England), 5 nations (forever holders since 1999), Hopetoun cup (v Oz)
England: Cooke cup (v Oz)
Ireland/ France/ Argie/ Oz/ Italy...
SA also hold the Raeburn Shield - This title is played for each time the current holder plays someone. For example if SA next play Oz and Oz win that game, the title passes to Oz who would in turn put it up against whoever they play next.
i love the idea of the Raeburn shield. I wish it would be officially recognized
bluestonevedder- Posts : 3952
Join date : 2011-08-22
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
bluestonevedder wrote:tigertattie wrote:Taylorman wrote:Current trophy holders in tier one that I know of...:
Boks: WCup, Rugby Championship
Wales: 6N, Triple Crown
NZ: Bledsiloe cup (v Oz), Dave Gallaher cup (v France), Hillary Shield (v England), Freedom cup (v SA)
Scotland: Calcutta cup (v England), 5 nations (forever holders since 1999), Hopetoun cup (v Oz)
England: Cooke cup (v Oz)
Ireland/ France/ Argie/ Oz/ Italy...
SA also hold the Raeburn Shield - This title is played for each time the current holder plays someone. For example if SA next play Oz and Oz win that game, the title passes to Oz who would in turn put it up against whoever they play next.
i love the idea of the Raeburn shield. I wish it would be officially recognized
btw...How come we didnt have this one then? We last beat SA? Does it not count certain matches?
Unless it went from SA, to us, without knowing that, to England then back to SA?
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
miaow wrote: Wales should have some non-entity cup for beating Australia in both 2018 and 2019.
You do. It's called the James Bevan Trophy. Since 2011 I think?
Pal Joey- PJ
- Posts : 53530
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Always there
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Taylorman wrote:bluestonevedder wrote:tigertattie wrote:Taylorman wrote:Current trophy holders in tier one that I know of...:
Boks: WCup, Rugby Championship
Wales: 6N, Triple Crown
NZ: Bledsiloe cup (v Oz), Dave Gallaher cup (v France), Hillary Shield (v England), Freedom cup (v SA)
Scotland: Calcutta cup (v England), 5 nations (forever holders since 1999), Hopetoun cup (v Oz)
England: Cooke cup (v Oz)
Ireland/ France/ Argie/ Oz/ Italy...
SA also hold the Raeburn Shield - This title is played for each time the current holder plays someone. For example if SA next play Oz and Oz win that game, the title passes to Oz who would in turn put it up against whoever they play next.
i love the idea of the Raeburn shield. I wish it would be officially recognized
btw...How come we didnt have this one then? We last beat SA? Does it not count certain matches?
Unless it went from SA, to us, without knowing that, to England then back to SA?
It's like a Lineal champion. I love the idea
It went from japan to SA. Japan "won" it from Ireland (WC game), Ireland won it from Wales in the Pre-WC warm up. Wales won it from England pre-WC, who won it from Wales the week before.
Afro- Moderator
- Posts : 31655
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 46
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Best I could do formatting wise
-->
No. Holder* Gained Days held Matches
1 Scotland 27 March 1871 315 1
2 England 05 February 18721855 8
3 Scotland 05 March 1877 1090 5
4 England 28 February 1880735 5
5 Scotland 04 March 1882 364 3
6 England 03 March 1883 1435 10
7 Ireland 05 February 188714 1
8 Scotland 19 February 1887350 3
9 Wales 04 February 188828 1
10 Ireland 03 March 1888 7 1
11 Scotland 10 March 1888 721 5
12 England 01 March 1890 371 4
13 Scotland 07 March 1891 364 3
14 England 05 March 1892 308 1
15 Wales 07 January 1893 364 3
16 England 06 January 1894 28 1
17 Ireland 03 February 1894364 3
18 England 02 February 189535 1
19 Scotland 09 March 1895 322 1
20 Wales 25 January 1896 49 1
21 Ireland 14 March 1896 343 2
22 Scotland 20 February 189721 1
23 England 13 March 1897 329 1
24 Ireland 05 February 189814 1
25 Scotland 19 February 1898364 2
26 Ireland 18 February 1899349 2
27 England 03-Feb-00 337 2
28 Wales 05-Jan-01 35 1
29 Scotland 09-Feb-01 357 3
30 Wales 01-Feb-02 371 3
31 Scotland 07-Feb-03 364 3
32 Wales 06-Feb-04 35 1
33 Ireland 12-Mar-04 364 3
34 Wales 11-Mar-05 364 4
35 Ireland 10-Mar-06 259 1
36 South Africa 24-Nov-06 5376 8
37 New Zealand 13-Aug-21 14 1
38 South Africa 27-Aug-21 2520 3
39 New Zealand 21-Jul-28 28 1
40 South Africa 18-Aug-28 14 1
41 New Zealand 01-Sep-28 308 1
42 Australia 06-Jul-29 798 3
43 New Zealand 12-Sep-31 294 1
44 Australia 02-Jul-32 14 1
45 New Zealand 16-Jul-32 756 2
46 Australia 11-Aug-34 756 2
47 New Zealand 05-Sep-36 364 3
48 South Africa 04-Sep-37 5845 12
49 Australia 05-Sep-53 14 1
50 South Africa 19-Sep-53 1029 4
51 New Zealand 14-Jul-56 21 1
52 South Africa 04-Aug-56 14 1
53 New Zealand 18-Aug-56 749 5
54 Australia 06-Sep-58 14 1
55 New Zealand 20-Sep-58 644 1
56 South Africa 25-Jun-60 28 1
57 New Zealand 23-Jul-60 35 2
58 South Africa 27-Aug-60 1078 10
59 Australia 10-Aug-63 28 2
60 South Africa 07-Sep-63 322 2
61 France 25-Jul-64 217 5
62 England 27-Feb-65 322 2
63 Wales 15-Jan-66 56 2
64 Ireland 12-Mar-66 336 2
65 England 11-Feb-67 14 1
66 France 25-Feb-67 140 4
67 South Africa 15-Jul-67 14 2
68 France 29-Jul-67 119 2
69 New Zealand 25-Nov-67 973 9
70 South Africa 25-Jul-70 14 1
71 New Zealand 08-Aug-70 21 1
72 South Africa 29-Aug-70 644 7
73 England 03-Jun-72 217 1
74 New Zealand 06-Jan-73 35 2
75 France 10-Feb-73 14 1
76 England 24-Feb-73 343 4
77 Scotland 02-Feb-74 28 1
78 Ireland 02-Mar-74 266 1
79 New Zealand 23-Nov-74 609 3
80 South Africa 24-Jul-76 21 1
81 New Zealand 14-Aug-76 21 1
82 South Africa 04-Sep-76 1806 5
83 New Zealand 15-Aug-81 14 1
84 South Africa 29-Aug-81 14 1
85 New Zealand 12-Sep-81 350 5
86 Australia 28-Aug-82 14 1
87 New Zealand 11-Sep-82 434 3
88 England 19-Nov-83 77 1
89 Scotland 04-Feb-84 98 3
90 Romania 12-May-84 182 1
91 France 10-Nov-84 224 6
92 Argentina 22-Jun-85 7 1
93 France 29-Jun-85 203 1
94 Scotland 18-Jan-86 14 1
95 Wales 01-Feb-86 28 2
96 France 01-Mar-86 91 3
97 Argentina 31-May-86 7 1
98 France 07-Jun-86 14 1
99 Australia 21-Jun-86 63 4
100 New Zealand 23-Aug-86 14 1
101 Australia 06-Sep-86 280 6
102 France 13-Jun-87 7 1
103 New Zealand 20-Jun-87 1155 18
104 Australia 18-Aug-90 371 4
105 New Zealand 24-Aug-91 64 5
106 Australia 27-Oct-91 272 6
107 New Zealand 25-Jul-92 490 5
108 England 27-Nov-93 84 2
109 Ireland 19-Feb-94 106 2
110 Australia 05-Jun-94 354 8
111 South Africa 25-May-95 415 10
112 Australia 13-Jul-96 14 1
113 New Zealand 27-Jul-96 35 4
114 South Africa 31-Aug-96 322 7
115 New Zealand 19-Jul-97 357 10
116 Australia 11-Jul-98 7 1
117 South Africa 18-Jul-98 140 7
118 England 05-Dec-98 127 4
119 Wales 11-Apr-99 186 8
120 Samoa 14-Oct-99 6 1
121 Scotland 20-Oct-99 4 1
122 New Zealand 24-Oct-99 7 1
123 France 31-Oct-99 6 1
124 Australia 06-Nov-99 252 4
125 New Zealand 15-Jul-00 21 2
126 Australia 05-Aug-00 105 4
127 England 18-Nov-00 336 10
128 Ireland 20-Oct-01 28 2
129 New Zealand 17-Nov-01 259 9
130 Australia 03-Aug-02 14 1
131 South Africa 17-Aug-02 84 1
132 France 09-Nov-02 98 3
133 England 15-Feb-03 196 8
134 France 30-Aug-03 7 1
135 England 06-Sep-03 182 10
136 Ireland 06-Mar-04 98 3
137 South Africa 12-Jun-04 42 3
138 New Zealand 24-Jul-04 14 1
139 Australia 07-Aug-04 14 1
140 South Africa 21-Aug-04 84 2
141 Ireland 13-Nov-04 119 6
142 France 12-Mar-05 105 3
143 South Africa 25-Jun-05 14 1
144 Australia 09-Jul-05 14 1
145 South Africa 23-Jul-05 35 3
146 New Zealand 27-Aug-05 371 14
147 South Africa 02-Sep-06 70 2
148 Ireland 11-Nov-06 92 3
149 France 11-Feb-07 28 2
150 England 11-Mar-07 6 1
151 Wales 17-Mar-07 70 1
152 Australia 26-May-07 21 3
153 South Africa 16-Jun-07 7 1
154 New Zealand 23-Jun-07 7 1
155 Australia 30-Jun-07 21 2
156 New Zealand 21-Jul-07 77 5
157 France 06-Oct-07 7 1
158 England 13-Oct-07 7 1
159 South Africa 20-Oct-07 259 4
160 New Zealand 05-Jul-08 7 1
161 South Africa 12-Jul-08 7 1
162 Australia 19-Jul-08 14 2
163 New Zealand 02-Aug-08 378 8
164 France 13-Jun-09 7 1
165 New Zealand 20-Jun-09 35 3
166 South Africa 25-Jul-09 42 4
167 Australia 05-Sep-09 14 1
168 New Zealand 19-Sep-09 406 15
169 Australia 30-Oct-10 14 2
170 England 13-Nov-10 14 2
171 South Africa 27-Nov-10 219 1
172 Australia 23-Jul-11 14 1
173 New Zealand 06-Aug-11 14 1
174 South Africa 20-Aug-11 50 5
175 Australia 09-Oct-11 7 1
176 New Zealand 16-Oct-11 413 15
177 England 01-Dec-12 105 5
178 Wales 17-Mar-13 92 2
179 Japan 15-Jun-13 140 3
180 New Zealand 02-Nov-13 337 12
181 South Africa 04-Oct-14 35 1
182 Ireland 08-Nov -14 126 6
183 Wales 14-Mar-15 148 2
184 Ireland 08-Aug-15 21 2
185 Wales 29-Aug-15 42 5
186 Australia 10-Oct-15 21 3
187 New Zealand 31-Oct-15 371 11
188 Ireland 05-Nov-16 14 2
189 New Zealand 19-Nov-16 336 9
190 Australia 21-Oct-17 28 2
191 England 18-Nov-17 99 4
192 Scotland 24-Feb-18 14 1
193 Ireland 10-Mar-18 92 2
194 Australia 09-Jun-18 7 1
195 Ireland 16-Jun-18 161 6
196 England 02-Feb-19 21 2
197 Wales 23-Feb-19 169 3
198 England 11-Aug-19 7 1
199 Wales 17-Aug-19 15 1
200 Ireland 31-Aug-19 28 3
201 Japan 28-Sep-19 23 3
202 South Africa 20-Oct-19 - 2
Afro- Moderator
- Posts : 31655
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 46
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Taylorman wrote:bluestonevedder wrote:tigertattie wrote:Taylorman wrote:Current trophy holders in tier one that I know of...:
Boks: WCup, Rugby Championship
Wales: 6N, Triple Crown
NZ: Bledsiloe cup (v Oz), Dave Gallaher cup (v France), Hillary Shield (v England), Freedom cup (v SA)
Scotland: Calcutta cup (v England), 5 nations (forever holders since 1999), Hopetoun cup (v Oz)
England: Cooke cup (v Oz)
Ireland/ France/ Argie/ Oz/ Italy...
SA also hold the Raeburn Shield - This title is played for each time the current holder plays someone. For example if SA next play Oz and Oz win that game, the title passes to Oz who would in turn put it up against whoever they play next.
i love the idea of the Raeburn shield. I wish it would be officially recognized
btw...How come we didnt have this one then? We last beat SA? Does it not count certain matches?
Unless it went from SA, to us, without knowing that, to England then back to SA?
So Ireland went into the WC as holders, after taking it off Wales during the warm up game. Japan then beat Ireland in the WC pool stage to take the trophy. SA then beat Japan in the quarter final so took it. They have not been beaten since! You can track it all here https://www.raeburnshield.com/previousholders
bluestonevedder- Posts : 3952
Join date : 2011-08-22
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
bluestonevedder wrote:Taylorman wrote:bluestonevedder wrote:tigertattie wrote:Taylorman wrote:Current trophy holders in tier one that I know of...:
Boks: WCup, Rugby Championship
Wales: 6N, Triple Crown
NZ: Bledsiloe cup (v Oz), Dave Gallaher cup (v France), Hillary Shield (v England), Freedom cup (v SA)
Scotland: Calcutta cup (v England), 5 nations (forever holders since 1999), Hopetoun cup (v Oz)
England: Cooke cup (v Oz)
Ireland/ France/ Argie/ Oz/ Italy...
SA also hold the Raeburn Shield - This title is played for each time the current holder plays someone. For example if SA next play Oz and Oz win that game, the title passes to Oz who would in turn put it up against whoever they play next.
i love the idea of the Raeburn shield. I wish it would be officially recognized
btw...How come we didnt have this one then? We last beat SA? Does it not count certain matches?
Unless it went from SA, to us, without knowing that, to England then back to SA?
So Ireland went into the WC as holders, after taking it off Wales during the warm up game. Japan then beat Ireland in the WC pool stage to take the trophy. SA then beat Japan in the quarter final so took it. They have not been beaten since! You can track it all here https://www.raeburnshield.com/previousholders
Never heard of this one before, reminds me a bit of that 24/7 title in WWE
protea438- Posts : 173
Join date : 2012-03-15
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Afro wrote:Taylorman wrote:
It went from japan to SA. Japan "won" it from Ireland (WC game), Ireland won it from Wales in the Pre-WC warm up. Wales won it from England pre-WC, who won it from Wales the week before.
Who had held it since...beating SA in 2018? Who'd beaten NZ in the summer, who had held it...for a while?
Did the Lions ever hold it in 2017? Presumably not as they won and then drew the final 2 games - but that doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility come 2021.
Edit: Just seen the longlist, Wales didn't hold it for too long in the winning streak then.
Have to ask then - why did the Lions not claim it in the Summer of 2017? NZ held it from 2016 to Oct 2017? Yet the beat, lost, and then drew v the Lions in the middle of that...
I think there's been a mistake. It's not SA with the Shield, it's the Lions...no!?
Guest- Guest
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Also, also...mental to see that Wales held it in 2007 then lost it...in May 2007!? I had to check as I thought it was too early for a warm up game.
Completely forgot (but remembered) Wales toured Australia in 2007. That's crazy. Months before the Rugby World Cup. Not long before the warm up games, either. They actually played well on tour as well, completely bottled a win at the death in one game.
If you need any better indication of how the game changed in the years between 2007-2010/11, it's the fact Wales went on a blydi summer tour to Australia - a team they'd play in their group - before a RWC...
Completely forgot (but remembered) Wales toured Australia in 2007. That's crazy. Months before the Rugby World Cup. Not long before the warm up games, either. They actually played well on tour as well, completely bottled a win at the death in one game.
If you need any better indication of how the game changed in the years between 2007-2010/11, it's the fact Wales went on a blydi summer tour to Australia - a team they'd play in their group - before a RWC...
Guest- Guest
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Also, final point on Wales - we've lost the shield in some real stinkers over the years. Talk about boom and bust. Samoa in 1999, Japan in 2013...
Guest- Guest
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
miaow wrote:Afro wrote:Taylorman wrote:
It went from japan to SA. Japan "won" it from Ireland (WC game), Ireland won it from Wales in the Pre-WC warm up. Wales won it from England pre-WC, who won it from Wales the week before.
Who had held it since...beating SA in 2018? Who'd beaten NZ in the summer, who had held it...for a while?
Did the Lions ever hold it in 2017? Presumably not as they won and then drew the final 2 games - but that doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility come 2021.
Edit: Just seen the longlist, Wales didn't hold it for too long in the winning streak then.
Have to ask then - why did the Lions not claim it in the Summer of 2017? NZ held it from 2016 to Oct 2017? Yet the beat, lost, and then drew v the Lions in the middle of that...
I think there's been a mistake. It's not SA with the Shield, it's the Lions...no!?
I wouldn't have thought the Lions would be eligible for it since they only play every four years.
Soul Requiem- Posts : 6564
Join date : 2019-07-16
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Maybe. But it would put some added jeopardy on that 3rd test if the shield did become a thing and, say, the tour was already wrapped up 2-0 by either team.
Though it's hardly a perfect barometer, what the shield does show is NZ's utter dominance this decade. They held it basically one year on, one year off, then on the first opportunity to reclaim it, won it back, and the cycle of holding it for another 12 months continued.
But that ended with the Lions tour - even if you don't award them the shield.
They haven't held the shield since during/just after failing to win the Lions tour. And ofc their results have stuttered since as well.
I really do think Gatland doesn't get nearly enough praise for pulling that off, nor was it looked at (by enough people...but not me...) as a barometer for where NZ were as a country, as a team, as a system etc. They really ought to have wrapped that tour up 3-0 if the 2011-2015 team had played it. Forget when SOB said, that's the kind of hubris that misunderstands what it takes to win the important games when it really counts - the kind of hubris that doesn't see a 20 point defeat coming in a RWC. Not saying either England or Ireland were guilty of that this year, but they have been in the past, and there were obvious echoes of the same again - too many assumptions. That Lions tour was probably Gatland's greatest achievement. No way should they have been competitive in those tests.
Though it's hardly a perfect barometer, what the shield does show is NZ's utter dominance this decade. They held it basically one year on, one year off, then on the first opportunity to reclaim it, won it back, and the cycle of holding it for another 12 months continued.
But that ended with the Lions tour - even if you don't award them the shield.
They haven't held the shield since during/just after failing to win the Lions tour. And ofc their results have stuttered since as well.
I really do think Gatland doesn't get nearly enough praise for pulling that off, nor was it looked at (by enough people...but not me...) as a barometer for where NZ were as a country, as a team, as a system etc. They really ought to have wrapped that tour up 3-0 if the 2011-2015 team had played it. Forget when SOB said, that's the kind of hubris that misunderstands what it takes to win the important games when it really counts - the kind of hubris that doesn't see a 20 point defeat coming in a RWC. Not saying either England or Ireland were guilty of that this year, but they have been in the past, and there were obvious echoes of the same again - too many assumptions. That Lions tour was probably Gatland's greatest achievement. No way should they have been competitive in those tests.
Guest- Guest
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
You can't include a side that only plays every 4 years and also only ever plays 3 other sides.
One thing with Wales is that once they "win" the Raeburn Shield, they aren't very good at keeping it.
One thing with Wales is that once they "win" the Raeburn Shield, they aren't very good at keeping it.
Afro- Moderator
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Age : 46
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
protea438 wrote:
Never heard of this one before, reminds me a bit of that 24/7 title in WWE
Brilliant
RiscaGame- Moderator
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Join date : 2016-01-24
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Hmmm..... there were a good few times there where we took it off South Africa. No pressure so on our next encounter ....... provided they still have it.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Oh Scotland all that fuss and you cant even get out of the kiddie pool.
Pie- Posts : 854
Join date : 2018-07-06
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Anyway, come next 6N, highest ranking up for grabs is third?
Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Oh how the mighty have fallen.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Post World Cup blues?
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
miaow wrote:Maybe. But it would put some added jeopardy on that 3rd test if the shield did become a thing and, say, the tour was already wrapped up 2-0 by either team.
Though it's hardly a perfect barometer, what the shield does show is NZ's utter dominance this decade. They held it basically one year on, one year off, then on the first opportunity to reclaim it, won it back, and the cycle of holding it for another 12 months continued.
But that ended with the Lions tour - even if you don't award them the shield.
They haven't held the shield since during/just after failing to win the Lions tour. And ofc their results have stuttered since as well.
I really do think Gatland doesn't get nearly enough praise for pulling that off, nor was it looked at (by enough people...but not me...) as a barometer for where NZ were as a country, as a team, as a system etc. They really ought to have wrapped that tour up 3-0 if the 2011-2015 team had played it. Forget when SOB said, that's the kind of hubris that misunderstands what it takes to win the important games when it really counts - the kind of hubris that doesn't see a 20 point defeat coming in a RWC. Not saying either England or Ireland were guilty of that this year, but they have been in the past, and there were obvious echoes of the same again - too many assumptions. That Lions tour was probably Gatland's greatest achievement. No way should they have been competitive in those tests.
Gats had the selection from four countries, two have since became number one ranked, the other, and much stronger side, went to two, and was favourite when the World Cup final rolled up. All three were considered possible World Cup ranked. All three went on ten plus winning runs since 2016. Two won series in Oz.
NZ shed several of some of its greatest players after 2015 and still hadn’t fully replaced players when the Lions rolled up.
Gats should have won that series easily, with the best of three serious contenders for the top spot. Instead they got done in the first, which after the fact had Warburton in tears, all but returning home after the first due to the pressure of expectation. Then they somehow managed to draw the series off the back of sixty minutes of a key carded player.
And you think Gats should have been given more credit? For drawing with that level of selection available?
Amazing, what else do you need to win here?
Can’t wait till Wales tours next year. Following the World Cup NZ usually let the next sides know they haven’t lost it, so Scotland and Wales (two)one with a poor coach, the other with a new coach.
Mind you, we’ll have a new coach as well, but I’m guessing by then there will be a lot of new energy across the board.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
England aren't 'much stronger' than Wales and Ireland. Only in the minds of 'we judge teams by how they play against NZ'.
That stupid mindset cost Hansen his legacy. He thought Ireland were the strongest team. Got it wrong. So did you. Suppose you can throw a "we" over that one, if it's any consolation...
That stupid mindset cost Hansen his legacy. He thought Ireland were the strongest team. Got it wrong. So did you. Suppose you can throw a "we" over that one, if it's any consolation...
Guest- Guest
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
From a South African perspective we find Wales tougher than England
Old Man- Posts : 3197
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Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
England are MUCH stronger. Always have been. We never thought Ireland were stronger. There were three in this from the start, and thats how they finished. Not everyones order but top three nonetheless. The rest were distant efforts.
Ireland were average at best in the 6N, terrible in the warmups and worse again in the Tournament proper. Once again they cracked on the big occasion.
Once again Miaow strikes out with his analysis. Once again Ireland exited quarters, once again Wales exited semis.
And you think hansen got it wrong. Eddie puts him to shame. He spent two years focussing on 'the wrong side' ha ha. Hansen didnt focus on anyone. THAT was his downfall. But how would you ever know that?
Anyway, bring your little team down n next year, and good luck.
Heres the current state of Wales in NZ:
Played 10, lost 10
Points for 95, against 405 at 40-10
9 tries to 56 at 1:6
Last effort, 46-6, 6 tries to none in 2016.
Enjoy
Ireland were average at best in the 6N, terrible in the warmups and worse again in the Tournament proper. Once again they cracked on the big occasion.
Once again Miaow strikes out with his analysis. Once again Ireland exited quarters, once again Wales exited semis.
And you think hansen got it wrong. Eddie puts him to shame. He spent two years focussing on 'the wrong side' ha ha. Hansen didnt focus on anyone. THAT was his downfall. But how would you ever know that?
Anyway, bring your little team down n next year, and good luck.
Heres the current state of Wales in NZ:
Played 10, lost 10
Points for 95, against 405 at 40-10
9 tries to 56 at 1:6
Last effort, 46-6, 6 tries to none in 2016.
Enjoy
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Yeah I'm not reading that comment either, just like I didn't read past the first stupid point you made on the last one. Sorry to disappoint. I'm actually here to discuss rugby and not bicker. You did your best to pollute this forum during the RWC. Please go and speak to someone.
Guest- Guest
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Old Man wrote:From a South African perspective we find Wales tougher than England
Understandable, we certainly dont, how can we with 31 straight wins? Mostly by huge margins. England win about every 8-10 years, this time it was 7. Last time it was 9, 10 before that, so it is reducing. For SA theyve had a lot of unnecessary losses in the last few years, adjusting for their disruptions, Super rugby, the quota etc...think that'll happen less now.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Taylorman wrote:Old Man wrote:From a South African perspective we find Wales tougher than England
Understandable, we certainly dont, how can we with 31 straight wins? Mostly by huge margins. England win about every 8-10 years, this time it was 7. Last time it was 9, 10 before that, so it is reducing. For SA theyve had a lot of unnecessary losses in the last few years, adjusting for their disruptions, Super rugby, the quota etc...think that'll happen less now.
In fairness though you only play England every 2 to 3 years.
Collapse2005- Posts : 7163
Join date : 2017-08-24
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Collapse2005 wrote:Taylorman wrote:Old Man wrote:From a South African perspective we find Wales tougher than England
Understandable, we certainly dont, how can we with 31 straight wins? Mostly by huge margins. England win about every 8-10 years, this time it was 7. Last time it was 9, 10 before that, so it is reducing. For SA theyve had a lot of unnecessary losses in the last few years, adjusting for their disruptions, Super rugby, the quota etc...think that'll happen less now.
In fairness though you only play England every 2 to 3 years.
9 times since 2010 is more than every 2-3 years. Weve payed England 24 in the 24 years of pro rugby, its just the last four years thats been a huge anomaly, playing at least once every other year, or more.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Taylorman wrote:South Africa and Oz do with two and are average at football, the rest either don’t play cricket or Footballet enough to be contenders.
Calling South Africa average at football is a huge compliment
protea438- Posts : 173
Join date : 2012-03-15
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Afro wrote:You can't include a side that only plays every 4 years and also only ever plays 3 other sides.
One thing with Wales is that once they "win" the Raeburn Shield, they aren't very good at keeping it.
Correctamundo.
The Lions dont count as they are an invitational side. The Barbarians also dont count either. Remember the Baa Baas are a club so not an international side.
Besides, if the lions never lost a game to the SANZAR sides then the shield would never be able to change hands to the other nations of the world.
tigertattie- Posts : 9581
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Location : On the naughty step
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Ha ha, luckily there’s never been a problem with that then. Simple really, it’s a national thing. It’s like saying why don’t the Lions play in the 6N, or RC, non sensical.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
It's laughable. I mean first the Lions have to win a bloody World Cup (atrocious record there, having never even qualified to play in it) before they even consider getting their hands on the mighty Raeburn Shield.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
Old Man wrote:From a South African perspective we find Wales tougher than England
And yet England’s win percentage is twice that of Wales against SA
BigTrevsbigmac- Posts : 3342
Join date : 2011-05-15
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Old Man wrote:From a South African perspective we find Wales tougher than England
And yet England’s win percentage is twice that of Wales against SA
I guess the logic is that it is mostly tougher to win a game than to lose one?
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Old Man wrote:From a South African perspective we find Wales tougher than England
And yet England’s win percentage is twice that of Wales against SA
Look at the last RWC cycle.
SA vs Wales 1-4
SA vs England 3-3
Old Man- Posts : 3197
Join date : 2019-08-27
Re: World Rankings after the RWC!!!!
3 in wales and 1 in usa for the welsh games. None in south africa.
Point taken though england should have taken the series in south africa. Kicking was really poor those first 2 tests at altitude.
Point taken though england should have taken the series in south africa. Kicking was really poor those first 2 tests at altitude.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31381
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