Refreshed side

First topic message reminder :

So a few comments I've lifted from the guardian from Eddie Jones. Pretty much as you'd expect in terms of looking ahead to the next challenge.
“I tell you what happens to teams – they evolve,” Jones said. “Some guys will lose desire, some guys will lose fitness, some guys will get injuries and there’ll be young guys come through. So this team is finished now. There will be a new team made. We’ll make a new team for the Six Nations and that new team for the Six Nations will be the basis of going to the next World Cup.'

Apparently the team at the weekend is the youngest to appear in a WC final so there won't be 15 new guys coming in but clearly a few are coming to the end. Are there particular areas or players jones will be looking at?

For me this bunch stand a decent chance in and around the squad to get more caps soon. Genge, Painter, Willis, Dombrandt, Smith, spencer, Robson and a outside chance of Mullins at full back.

Guys that are all young enough to be around for years to come but all with great potential. Perhaps not as good/proven as some who will step back but hugely talented.

Hes excelled everywhere else. May as well play as an 8 too. To be fair hill is a big old unit and tends to be busier than Dombrandt. That and ben youngs are the only disappointments for me.

The disappointing thing about Youngs inclusion though is more that there have not been younger SHs bashing the door down to be selected. At least Mitchell will be training with the squad and next season should be first choice for Saints.

I realise theres lack of options elsewhere but if he hadn't have got the caps he has he would be no where the side. Yes that's a big if I appreciate but heinz was head and shoulders better than him in the wc: that depresses me.

I'm a big fan of Ted Hill, he seems ridiculously physical for his age, when you consider that he potentially has a couple of growing years to come and professional training, he could be an absolute monster. I think he used to play lock as he came through the age groups, but he's mainly played back row for Worcester

I am a bit shocked not to see Dombrant or the two Simmons boys not given a chance this 6ns.

Curry and Earl to cover 8 during the championship?
Could be very interesting

We could see a very fast dynamic 678 combo this six nations. Just imagine the breakdown carnage we could cause with the kamakazi kids and Earl on at the same time. With 8 several teams have gone down the more mobile route. Ted Hill is an exciting prospect. I was expecting Sam Simmons but not dombrant as his work rate is sometimes suspect. As for umaga, could be some player in a couple of years and if he fills out like his dad or uncle will probably play 12 either way a quality player in a poor wasps team.

Yoda wrote:We could see a very fast dynamic 678 combo this six nations. Just imagine the breakdown carnage we could cause with the kamakazi kids and Earl on at the same time. With 8 several teams have gone down the more mobile route. Ted Hill is an exciting prospect. I was expecting Sam Simmons but not dombrant as his work rate is sometimes suspect. As for umaga, could be some player in a couple of years and if he fills out like his dad or uncle will probably play 12 either way a quality player in a poor wasps team.

Very possibly. But if so it makes leaving out Simmonds even stranger, given that he's very fast and very hard working. Still in Eddie we trust

Apparently Solomons or whoever is in charge of Worcester said Hill was identical physically , mentally etc to Duane Vermuelen when he was that age.

Quite interesting.

Yoda wrote:We could see a very fast dynamic 678 combo this six nations. Just imagine the breakdown carnage we could cause with the kamakazi kids and Earl on at the same time. With 8 several teams have gone down the more mobile route. Ted Hill is an exciting prospect. I was expecting Sam Simmons but not dombrant as his work rate is sometimes suspect. As for umaga, could be some player in a couple of years and if he fills out like his dad or uncle will probably play 12 either way a quality player in a poor wasps team.

Throw in the fact that four out of five of the props Eddie selected are very mobile and good carriers and the second rowers are no slouches either.

I worry that it is going to be one of those game plans that will work spectacularly well or break like waves on an organised defence.

GeordieFalcon wrote:And whats the crack with Will Stuart. Havent seen much of him.

For the first time in years Bath have a very strong and aggressive front row with Obano, Dunn and Stuart, who are all pretty mobile. Blackadder was quoted if Dunn was a kiwi he would already have had a lot of AB caps. Stuart not only locks the Bath scrum but attacks on opposition put in - we haven't had that in years. Bath have Neal Hatley as forwards coach, which probably hasnt hurt their chances either, with a direct line into EJ. Obano has a lot of competition at LH, but his time will come.
Ewels was brought through the academy by a certain Danny Grewcock and has always been considered very bright and a born leader from a very young age - Borthwick rates him.

EJ appears to have given up on a ball carrying no.8 as very few international teams have an effective no.8 these days, defences are too suffocating close in. Interesting times.

Cumbrian wrote:

Yoda wrote:We could see a very fast dynamic 678 combo this six nations. Just imagine the breakdown carnage we could cause with the kamakazi kids and Earl on at the same time. With 8 several teams have gone down the more mobile route. Ted Hill is an exciting prospect. I was expecting Sam Simmons but not dombrant as his work rate is sometimes suspect. As for umaga, could be some player in a couple of years and if he fills out like his dad or uncle will probably play 12 either way a quality player in a poor wasps team.

Throw in the fact that four out of five of the props Eddie selected are very mobile and good carriers and the second rowers are no slouches either.

I worry that it is going to be one of those game plans that will work spectacularly well or break like waves on an organised defence.

I think it's going to entertaining and if Simon amor is half the attack coach he's been sold as then hopefully we will score some lovely tries. Going into this with a very open mind, they exceeded my expectations at world Cup time and I wouldn't be surprised we come unstuck again against a slug fest team. Equally I wouldn't put it past us to hand out a pasting either. Strap yourself in this could get interesting!

some interesting picks. am sure its been covered earlier in the thread but i really hope all the england players can move quickly past the saracens mess.

loved the pace and swerve Furbank displayed this weekend en route to a try

exciting times

Furbank looks class, young nick abendanon? A bit miffed Wales have nabbed tomkins rate him highly and probably better than devoto. Would be interesting to see if the rfu centrally contract sarencens players and loan then out to other prem clubs or even around the world to keep them fresh. The thought of ijote not playing at the highest level is not good.

1.Marler
2.George
3.Sinkler
4.Itoje
5.Kruis
6.Curry
7.Underhill
8.Earl

9.Youngs
10.Ford

11.May
12.Farrell
13.Tuilagi
14.Watson
15.Furbank

16.Cowan-Dickie
17.Vunipola
18.Williams
19.Lawes
20.Hill
21.Heinz
22.Joseph
23.Daly

I'd love to see that side start the 6 Nations. I'd prefer Dombrandt as an 8 option but Earl is a terrific young player and Hill is a brute in contact.

So if Hill, and Stuart etc are a bit more abrasive and physically dominating to the opposition...does that mean that Jones has taken on board the World Cup final?

Carlos,
I don't think your far off at all...but I think Daly will start at 15. Plus, I hear he's actually been a form player so far...correct me if im wrong of course.

So what does Earl have that Simmonds doesn't.

Seem to be very similar types...

Under 20s squad was announced too, this might give some clues about other wildcards who will come into contention this summer when the core world cup players are due to be rested. Always worth taking Sam Crean on a summer break.


England men U20s Elite Player Squad - 2020

Forwards

Alfie Barbeary (Wasps Rugby)

Harvey Beaton (Saracens)

Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs)

Jack Clement (Gloucester Rugby)

Sam Crean (Saracens)

Theodore Dan (Saracens)

Ben Donnell (London Irish)

Rob Farrar (Newcastle Falcons)

Josh Gray (Gloucester Rugby)

Luke Green (London Irish)

George Martin (Leicester Tigers)

Nahum Merigan (Bath Rugby)

Hugh Tizard (Harlequins)

JJ Tonks (Northampton Saints)

Rusiate Tuima (Exeter Chiefs)

James Whitcombe (Leicester Tigers)

Backs

George Barton (Gloucester Rugby)

Joe Carpenter (Sale Sharks)

Tom Curtis (Sale Sharks)

Connor Doherty (Sale Sharks)

Gabriel Hamer-Webb (Bath Rugby)

Will Haydon-Wood (Newcastle Falcons)

Noah Heward (Worcester Warriors)

Josh Hodge (Newcastle Falcons)

Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby)

Sam Maunder (Exeter Chiefs)

Raphael Quirke (Sale Sharks)

Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)

Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints)

Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers)

Jack Van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers)

Manu Vunipola (Saracens)


Whilst checking out a few of them I came across this
"Of the 31 players selected in England’s 2019 Rugby World Cup squad, 81% played for England U20s, 77% for England U18s, while 87% came through a club academy."
Most of the rest presumably moved here because they weren't good enough for super rugby. Does this demonstrate the pathways system is working? Maybe. Tuilagi of course completely leapfrogged it.

Scrum halves...Van Poorvliet is getting in Tigers senior team even when Youngs is with England, Sam Maunder isn't a senior team player either. Raffi Quirke is a bit further ahead and was being pushed as a potential apprentice in the senior squad before it was announced. Maybe thats the masterplan? Im genuinely confused by the thinking in scrum halves in the senior squad, Heinz is 33 and only a very short term option. Even if Jones believes Youngs remains first choice it seems odd to not have another player at least training with the squad to get experience, and Jones will be a bit shame faced if someone gets injured and he has to phone Spencer up. Or Maunders brother who went to Argentina and then got dumped. And who is going to Japan?

GeordieFalcon wrote:So what does Earl have that Simmonds doesn't.

Seem to be very similar types...

An England call up.

Is max ojomoh Steve's son?
I loved Steve ojomoh he was a beast of a player

carpet baboon wrote:Is max ojomoh Steve's son?
I loved Steve ojomoh he was a beast of a player

I assume so given hes at Bath. If Steve was a beast imagine what MAX will be like. Ollie Sleighthome is another son of an ex England player in there.

Gooseberry wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Is max ojomoh Steve's son?
I loved Steve ojomoh he was a beast of a player

I assume so given hes at Bath. If Steve was a beast imagine what MAX will be like. Ollie Sleighthome is another son of an ex England player in there.

Yes. Quite the glowing tribute can be found here

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/bath-u18-max-ojomoh-is-far-more-than-just-a-famous-name-and-heres-why/

I also have fond memories of his dad.

Gooseberry wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:So what does Earl have that Simmonds doesn't.

Seem to be very similar types...

An England call up.

True. I was just curious.

i think the reason that Dombrandt has been left on the sidelines is speed. He's quite a unit, and no way as fast as the Kamikaze Twins or Earl. Speed at the breakdown is essential, and a backrow as stated above of Curry, Underhill and Earl is a scary and speedy proposition. Effectively you're playing with 3 7s, plus Itoje and possibly Lawes, plus Sinckler & Mako makes for a very mobile pack indeed, most with sublime handling skills. If that's the style of rugby Eddie wants, then Dombrandt does not fit in with that way of playing. Neither does Billy to be fair, but that's a moot point. Guess he's tried Simmonds as his hand was forced, and didn't want to cap him again.

Given all the discussion of Sarries players being picked whilst in the Championship it does make me chuckle that Jones has selected Josh Hodge as an apprentice player from Falcons.

Hodge is a cracking talent in a problem position so he may well have been lined up well before the relegation announcement but it does make me laugh.

Saracens: England squad to address any anger over salary cap scandal - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51184553

Gooseberry wrote: Im genuinely confused by the thinking in scrum halves in the senior squad, Heinz is 33 and only a very short term option. Even if Jones believes Youngs remains first choice it seems odd to not have another player at least training with the squad to get experience, and Jones will be a bit shame faced if someone gets injured and he has to phone Spencer up. ?

Alex Mitchell is training with the squad to get experience.

Not necessarily at SH, but I suspect teh squad will evolve a little over the course of the 6Ns. The bulk of the 23 that runs out in Paris will have been at teh World Cup. That makes sense as they did pretty well, was a young squad and there will be just 8 days of training before the match to come back together. As we move into Spring we will see some changes. New faces will come in (and maybe some old) and some will drop out.

king_carlos wrote:Given all the discussion of Sarries players being picked whilst in the Championship it does make me chuckle that Jones has selected Josh Hodge as an apprentice player from Falcons.

Hodge is a cracking talent in a problem position so he may well have been lined up well before the relegation announcement but it does make me laugh.

Well i did say earlier in the thread...i wonder if Eddie will be watching from afar...i guess i was right.

Although to be fair...its not hard. Josh has been in most age grade groups, was a stand out player at the last U20 world cup, and played his first senior game on SUnday, scored and looked very impressive. The kid just looks a superb full back in the making. Sadly i feel I wont be seeing him in the falcons shirt for long. The big boys will be circiling for him.

Mr Bounce wrote:i think the reason that Dombrandt has been left on the sidelines is speed. He's quite a unit, and no way as fast as the Kamikaze Twins or Earl. Speed at the breakdown is essential, and a backrow as stated above of Curry, Underhill and Earl is a scary and speedy proposition. Effectively you're playing with 3 7s, plus Itoje and possibly Lawes, plus Sinckler & Mako makes for a very mobile pack indeed, most with sublime handling skills. If that's the style of rugby Eddie wants, then Dombrandt does not fit in with that way of playing. Neither does Billy to be fair, but that's a moot point. Guess he's tried Simmonds as his hand was forced, and didn't want to cap him again.

Ive asked the question above, what is the difference between Simmonds and Earl.

Size - Much the same
Speed - Simmonds probably edges it
Work rate - Much the same
Breakdown - Does Earl take this one?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Given all the discussion of Sarries players being picked whilst in the Championship it does make me chuckle that Jones has selected Josh Hodge as an apprentice player from Falcons.

Hodge is a cracking talent in a problem position so he may well have been lined up well before the relegation announcement but it does make me laugh.

Well i did say earlier in the thread...i wonder if Eddie will be watching from afar...i guess i was right.

Although to be fair...its not hard. Josh has been in most age grade groups, was a stand out player at the last U20 world cup, and played his first senior game on SUnday, scored and looked very impressive. The kid just looks a superb full back in the making. Sadly i feel I wont be seeing him in the falcons shirt for long. The big boys will be circiling for him.

You say that Geordie but with the market being flooded by Sarries players you may well find there just inst the interest in poaching there has been over the previous few years. With promotion a given Newcastle should be in a stronger position to hold players than they have been and should see a net gain in the off season. 

It really strikes though that the squad has new and existing fullback options in it and an apprentice, whilst the under 20s has a fairly mature player in it too ( Steward) who himself could also have been given an apprentice spot with an eye to being a future senior cap. Contrast that to the Scrum half situation which is the other position that the fans and pundits perceive as a problem area...its literally just still the same two blokes with no apparent succession planning short or medium term. On one hand the net is being cast wide and options developed for fullback within and beyond the squad, for 9 theres no back up at all and one of thems 33 and we will be going to Japan with two players from outside this winters set up. Broken record on this but I'd love to understand thinking here.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:i think the reason that Dombrandt has been left on the sidelines is speed. He's quite a unit, and no way as fast as the Kamikaze Twins or Earl. Speed at the breakdown is essential, and a backrow as stated above of Curry, Underhill and Earl is a scary and speedy proposition. Effectively you're playing with 3 7s, plus Itoje and possibly Lawes, plus Sinckler & Mako makes for a very mobile pack indeed, most with sublime handling skills. If that's the style of rugby Eddie wants, then Dombrandt does not fit in with that way of playing. Neither does Billy to be fair, but that's a moot point. Guess he's tried Simmonds as his hand was forced, and didn't want to cap him again.

Ive asked the question above, what is the difference between Simmonds and Earl.

Size - Much the same
Speed - Simmonds probably edges it
Work rate - Much the same
Breakdown - Does Earl take this one?

Power - Earl
Defence - Earl
Game Nous - Earl

Maybe.

PS - saw one pundit suggest (and just for this game) that we may see 6,7,8 of Lawes, Underhill, Curry due to the short prep time with, fitness permitting, the Kamikaze twins playing on the flanks later in the tournament.

Yoda wrote:Furbank looks class, young nick abendanon? A bit miffed Wales have nabbed tomkins rate him highly and probably better than devoto. Would be interesting to see if the rfu centrally contract sarencens players and loan then out to other prem clubs or even around the world to keep them fresh. The thought of ijote not playing at the highest level is not good.

As an England fan first and foremost the thought of Itoje and co barely playing next season is perfect.

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:i think the reason that Dombrandt has been left on the sidelines is speed. He's quite a unit, and no way as fast as the Kamikaze Twins or Earl. Speed at the breakdown is essential, and a backrow as stated above of Curry, Underhill and Earl is a scary and speedy proposition. Effectively you're playing with 3 7s, plus Itoje and possibly Lawes, plus Sinckler & Mako makes for a very mobile pack indeed, most with sublime handling skills. If that's the style of rugby Eddie wants, then Dombrandt does not fit in with that way of playing. Neither does Billy to be fair, but that's a moot point. Guess he's tried Simmonds as his hand was forced, and didn't want to cap him again.

Ive asked the question above, what is the difference between Simmonds and Earl.

Size - Much the same
Speed - Simmonds probably edges it
Work rate - Much the same
Breakdown - Does Earl take this one?

Power - Earl
Defence - Earl
Game Nous - Earl

Maybe.

Interesting. When he played for England didnt Simmonds hit about 26 tackles or something insane.

LondonTiger wrote:PS - saw one pundit suggest (and just for this game) that we may see 6,7,8 of Lawes, Underhill, Curry due to the short prep time with, fitness permitting, the Kamikaze twins playing on the flanks later in the tournament.

i could see that aswell LT. Curry at 8, with Earl or Ludlum coming off the bench.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:i think the reason that Dombrandt has been left on the sidelines is speed. He's quite a unit, and no way as fast as the Kamikaze Twins or Earl. Speed at the breakdown is essential, and a backrow as stated above of Curry, Underhill and Earl is a scary and speedy proposition. Effectively you're playing with 3 7s, plus Itoje and possibly Lawes, plus Sinckler & Mako makes for a very mobile pack indeed, most with sublime handling skills. If that's the style of rugby Eddie wants, then Dombrandt does not fit in with that way of playing. Neither does Billy to be fair, but that's a moot point. Guess he's tried Simmonds as his hand was forced, and didn't want to cap him again.

Ive asked the question above, what is the difference between Simmonds and Earl.

Size - Much the same
Speed - Simmonds probably edges it
Work rate - Much the same
Breakdown - Does Earl take this one?

Power - Earl
Defence - Earl
Game Nous - Earl

Maybe.

Interesting. When he played for England didnt Simmonds hit about 26 tackles or something insane.

If I remember right it 'was only Italy' but he made something like 22 tackles scored two tries and was everywhere.

Where Lawrs at 6 has impacted negatively before with underhill and curry it's at least more balanced than when tried previously. I have a feeling lawes wont be starting many at lock against good scrummaging sides.

lostinwales wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:i think the reason that Dombrandt has been left on the sidelines is speed. He's quite a unit, and no way as fast as the Kamikaze Twins or Earl. Speed at the breakdown is essential, and a backrow as stated above of Curry, Underhill and Earl is a scary and speedy proposition. Effectively you're playing with 3 7s, plus Itoje and possibly Lawes, plus Sinckler & Mako makes for a very mobile pack indeed, most with sublime handling skills. If that's the style of rugby Eddie wants, then Dombrandt does not fit in with that way of playing. Neither does Billy to be fair, but that's a moot point. Guess he's tried Simmonds as his hand was forced, and didn't want to cap him again.

Ive asked the question above, what is the difference between Simmonds and Earl.

Size - Much the same
Speed - Simmonds probably edges it
Work rate - Much the same
Breakdown - Does Earl take this one?

Power - Earl
Defence - Earl
Game Nous - Earl

Maybe.

Interesting. When he played for England didnt Simmonds hit about 26 tackles or something insane.

If I remember right it 'was only Italy' but he made something like 22 tackles scored two tries and was everywhere.

Got MOM and two tries. 

Another thing to note is hes only ever had one yellow card in 59 senior games for Exeter. Discipline is pretty handy. 


Its interesting to see that Jones has gone even further down the road of having a mobile fast paced pack despite them being out muscled being the main narrative for why the lost the world cup final. Rather than reacting by switching tack from one beasting they've doubled down to some extent on the existing path. Lawes filling in at 6 would go against that, but i guess its a strong possibility at least as a tactical option.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:i think the reason that Dombrandt has been left on the sidelines is speed. He's quite a unit, and no way as fast as the Kamikaze Twins or Earl. Speed at the breakdown is essential, and a backrow as stated above of Curry, Underhill and Earl is a scary and speedy proposition. Effectively you're playing with 3 7s, plus Itoje and possibly Lawes, plus Sinckler & Mako makes for a very mobile pack indeed, most with sublime handling skills. If that's the style of rugby Eddie wants, then Dombrandt does not fit in with that way of playing. Neither does Billy to be fair, but that's a moot point. Guess he's tried Simmonds as his hand was forced, and didn't want to cap him again.

Ive asked the question above, what is the difference between Simmonds and Earl.

Size - Much the same
Speed - Simmonds probably edges it
Work rate - Much the same
Breakdown - Does Earl take this one?

Power - Earl
Defence - Earl
Game Nous - Earl

Maybe.

Interesting. When he played for England didnt Simmonds hit about 26 tackles or something insane.

I was thinking about more than just tackle count - for me that is covered in work rate. I was thinking about tackle power, maul and ruck defence, defensive positioning etc.

But these things are always subjective. I would have had Simmonds ahead of Earl for now but Earl in and around the squad as a direct replacement for Underhill if needed.

Gooseberry wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:i think the reason that Dombrandt has been left on the sidelines is speed. He's quite a unit, and no way as fast as the Kamikaze Twins or Earl. Speed at the breakdown is essential, and a backrow as stated above of Curry, Underhill and Earl is a scary and speedy proposition. Effectively you're playing with 3 7s, plus Itoje and possibly Lawes, plus Sinckler & Mako makes for a very mobile pack indeed, most with sublime handling skills. If that's the style of rugby Eddie wants, then Dombrandt does not fit in with that way of playing. Neither does Billy to be fair, but that's a moot point. Guess he's tried Simmonds as his hand was forced, and didn't want to cap him again.

Ive asked the question above, what is the difference between Simmonds and Earl.

Size - Much the same
Speed - Simmonds probably edges it
Work rate - Much the same
Breakdown - Does Earl take this one?

Power - Earl
Defence - Earl
Game Nous - Earl

Maybe.

Interesting. When he played for England didnt Simmonds hit about 26 tackles or something insane.

If I remember right it 'was only Italy' but he made something like 22 tackles scored two tries and was everywhere.

Got MOM and two tries. 

Another thing to note is hes only ever had one yellow card in 59 senior games for Exeter. Discipline is pretty handy. 


Its interesting to see that Jones has gone even further down the road of having a mobile fast paced pack despite them being out muscled being the main narrative for why the lost the world cup final. Rather than reacting by switching tack from one beasting they've doubled down to some extent on the existing path. Lawes filling in at 6 would go against that, but i guess its a strong possibility at least as a tactical option.

In a way yes i agreee. However on the flip side...Ted HIll coming in as a real deal monster actual 6 (not a lock at 6), Will Stuart (who i have seen little of) is apparently an upgrade of a heavy duty destructive prop, and Dombrandt etc will be in the picture despite his non selection.
So i think he is looking to address it...however evolution not revolution.

We got to the World Cup final...with an incredibly young squad and i dont think any English fan expected that or the way we beat NZ.

For Italy...could you imagine..

6 HIll
7 Curry
8 Dombrandt (Drafted in to the squad)

No 7&1/2 wrote:Where Lawrs at 6 has impacted negatively before with underhill and curry it's at least more balanced than when tried previously. I have a feeling lawes wont be starting many at lock against good scrummaging sides.

Did you see Lawes and Moon against Lyon at the weekend, they put out a monster, hard scrummaging side and came off worst, and that with a lightweight back row, Ludlam, Wood and Harrison. I can only think of one scrum where Saints went backwards and about 3 to 4 where they went forward and won the penalty. Lawes is no week link when it comes to shoving these days.

WPI...whats your views of moon. Is he a genuine prospect? Looks a big lad, 6'7/8 19st. Only 23 so should fll out aswell.

Hes not a great scrummager in general in my view WPI. Everyone was highlighting Cole in the final, he did fine later in the game when lawes went albeit in tandem with a better loose head. I know I'm a bit against the grain with views on Lawes quality wise. I think hes great but his limitations arent the ones I'd prefer at lock. Just think Proudfoot may want the ballast there.

The squad announcemt and the upcomig Six Nations almost feels like a clean sheet, which is an odd thing to say, given that most of the players who took us to the World Cup finals are still with us, and mostly in decent form.

Rugby Fan wrote:The squad announcemt and the upcomig Six Nations almost feels like a clean sheet, which is an odd thing to say, given that most of the players who took us to the World Cup finals are still with us, and mostly in decent form.

And likely that the starting 15 will be very much as it was. 

Theres very little unforced change. 

Looking back at the world cup and 2019 six nations squads ....
Brown, Ashton, Teo and Cole have effectively been aged out. 
Hughes, Vunipola, Cokisigna, Sheilds, Nowell, Wilson, Slade are all injured. 

The only really dropped players are Mconnichie and Singleton who had 4 caps between them as replacements.  

The uncapped players include Ben Earl and Thorely who were all in the 2019 six nations squad, so really continuity. Same with Devoto whos got a cap. 

The only genuinely new players are Dunn Furbank Umanga Stuart Dunn Moon and Dingwall. Stuart is a replacement for Cole and Dingwall probably only gets in because Slade is injured and Teo aged out. Dunn is replacing a very inexperienced young player. 
Moon, Umanga and Furbank (although its quite possible that only one or even neither of Furbank or Thorley wouldve got the call if Cokasinga and Nowell were fit) are really the three who look like genuine new player selections, and with them its hard to see them making a matchday squad. 

I dont see it as a fresh start of particularly revolutionary at all. There may be surprises in the match day squad of course, but this looks very much like the level of change you'd expect after a normal fairly successful AIs at any point in the world cup cycle rather than the sort of ripping up we get when head coaches change or they've had a rotten summer and autumn.  

Overall it just shows a nice steady drip through of new players and trust in the core squad.

 But where is the third scrum half? 

I'm excited to see what Stuart can do at TH

GeordieFalcon wrote:For Italy...could you imagine..

6 HIll
7 Curry
8 Dombrandt (Drafted in to the squad)

Got to feel for Zach Mercer. With Billy injured and the young outlook I think he's have been a shoe in for Jones prior to injury.

I was skeptical of Mercer when he first stepped up from age grade to senior. He reminded me touch of Alex Gray in that he was outstanding at U20 level but just seemed underpowered. I was completely wrong though and Mercer has developed into a player who uses his pace, footwork and hands to make up for having less brute force carrying straight into contact.

Add in his line-out jumping, leadership and breakdown work I could see Mercer being starting 8 by the 2023 RWC if Billy can't string more games together.

i agree KC i think Mercer would have been in the squad had he been fit.

I also think we may see quite a bit of Ted HIll
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2018/12/20/ted-hill-future-english-rugby-reminds-duane-vermeulen-stature/
Thats the physicality and brute power that i think England lack in the pack at times...and Eddie is looking for.

6 Hill
7 Curry

Now thats starting to get exciting.