Scotland 6 Nations Thread

by Highland Shaun Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:26 am

First topic message reminder :

With the 6N fast approaching, I thought I'd be the first to start a thread for it, my team being Scotland because its my nationality lol.

First of all, we know that Danny Wilson won't be coaching as he's off to coach Glasgow plus there are rumours of Matt Taylor the assistant going with Rennie to Australia so that leaves a couple of vacancies available, hopefully after the 6N, the main head coach one will be available too, which I would suspect Richard Cockerill would be the outright fav for, but that's a topic for after the 6N.

So, who would you like to see be in our 6N squad, are there any new caps that are likely, are there any players possibly getting recalls or would we likely see any younger players get a shot.

This is the place to discuss so go ahead

.

by **RDW** Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:36 pm

Tommy Seymour has announced his international retirement.

Similar to Barclay - another great servant to Scottish ruby, but the time is definitely right.

Greig next...?

by Tramptastic Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:01 pm

He's been excellent for Scotland, the 2015-2017 being his peak years

Our best winger of the modern era in the air and worked wonderfully well with Hogg and Maitland in the back 3.

Will result in more game time for Graham and Blairhorn right at the beginning of the next RWC cycle which is a good thing. Could do with Nairn at Glasgow pushing on a bit, Hoyland should come good and VDW at Edinburgh will be scottish qualified soon so the winger/fullback slots aren't exactly that bare!

by **RDW** Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:04 pm

Tramptastic wrote:He's been excellent for Scotland, the 2015-2017 being his peak years

Our best winger of the modern era in the air and worked wonderfully well with Hogg and Maitland in the back 3.

Will result in more game time for Graham and Blairhorn right at the beginning of the next RWC cycle which is a good thing. Could do with Nairn at Glasgow pushing on a bit, Hoyland should come good and VDW at Edinburgh will be scottish qualified soon so the winger/fullback slots aren't exactly that bare!

*VDM

Easily done!

I don't think Hoyland is international class, but it is good to see him back to having regular gametime after almost 2 years out with injury - you never know. He has been impacted by Sau signing for Edinburgh, who Cockers has been picking of late ahead of him. Hoyland does seem to be our 2nd choice fullback though so should get gametime there.

by Tramptastic Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:11 pm

I genuinely think Hoyland has what it takes - its just a shame he's at a club that is full to the brim with wingers and fullbacks!

He's got a proper good step on him, he's very quick and very physical in the tackle

Whats the standard number of back 3 picked for the six nations? 5 or 6?

so in February we are looking at Hogg, Maitland, Graham, Blairhorn and then? at Glasgow there's Steyn but the consensus is he's mostly an outside centre who can cover wing in a pinch. Mcguigan is at Sale but he's a bit meh, Harris can cover wing but again is mostly an outside centre....

Hoyland for Scotland Wink

by Guest Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:05 pm

Is it the right time? I'd say Seymour is a big loss for the next 18 months as you transition in to a new team. Leaving because of th coaches?

by **NeilyBroon** Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:32 pm

He's not been our form winger for a while darcy offers more currently and maitland is very good on the other wing. Worst case we also have kinghorn covering and a few coming through. He's been a great player for us but its clear hes not been happy playing rugby so hoping this is for the best for him.

by **RDW** Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:33 pm

He's not been on form for the last 18 months or so miaow, and has made some high profile mistakes.

He's probably 4th choice winger just now and will be 5th choice in the summer when VDM qualifies.

That's not where a winger in his 30s who was first choice for a long time wants to be!

by **BigGee** Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:40 pm

The much touted move by Matt Sheratt from Spreys to Scotland attack coach is off, or more likely was never happening in the first place, he is going to Worcester Warriors.

Clearly a case of wrong Warriors getting everyone worked up!

What it does not tell us though is who might come in, if, as expected Blair, Taylor step down and we already know where Wilson is going!

by Guest Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:42 pm

A fair decision in that case, although 31 is young - may well be a family decision and an acceptance his heart isn't in the fight to possibly get back in the picture for another few years, with an outside shot at the Lions tour (Gatland has loyalty to previous tourists). Presumably only has one last big contract as well.

by **RDW** Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:20 pm

Some bloke on Facebook saying players shouldn't be allowed to step down from international rugby as they should always make themselves available to play for their country. steam

Think we know who he's voting for tomorrow! Braveheart

by Guest Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:37 pm

Rugby conscription. I like it. Maybe we might eventually test the 'my granny would do a better job theory' if everyone gets called up against their will...

by tigertattie Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:30 am

Ah yes. Of course people should be forced to play rugby for the country. Let’s have a team full of guys who don’t want to play and ultimately know their bodies can’t take the punishment of international rugby.

These people not only use the interweb, but they walk among us.

Jesus wept

Still. At least the election will be done in 23 hours time. Woo hoo.

by bsando Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:25 am

If Greig and P Horne were to announce their retirement that would really force Townsends hand. It would probably simplify things for him as well to be fair, he'd have to pick youth over experience. As it stands I can't see Horne or Laidlaw starting any 6N games, it's one tournament too far for both of them really. Wilson probably has another season left in a Scotland shirt I'd say although I can see Ritchie and Thomson stealing a lot of his game time this 6N.

by **BigGee** Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:56 am

I can't see Horne nor Wilson actually retiring but thst does not mean they should get picked.

Greg i would actually prefer if he was to go on his own terms and in a dignified manner. He, like Seymour and Barclay has been a great servant to Scottish rugby and deserves any accolades that comrs his way. I can't see whst he has to gain from carrying on though, nor for Toonie to keep picking him

by **RDW** Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:53 am

Laidlaw is a strange one - we all expected him to retire but it hasn't happened (yet). He'd probably still get a bench place in the 6N which he may be content with for one last experience running out at Murrayfield. It's not like anyone else is really putting their hand up for the 3rd SH position.

by bsando Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:19 am

Yeah I agree and think it's to Scotland's benefit to have him as 3rd choice backup motivating the younger guys in camp. He'll surely retire after the 6N if not before you'd expect.

by **BigGee** Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:23 pm

I can't see what motivation GL would have just to be a squsd player

Surely Price and Horne should be our 2 that should play if fit and we need to start bringing someone else on.

by Gooseberry Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:51 pm

Sounds like Darcy Rae isnt planning on making an appearance this 6 nations

by **BigGee** Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:55 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Sounds like Darcy Rae isnt planning on making an appearance this 6 nations

Well it would have taken an almighty injury crisis for that to have happened in any case, but at the very least it seems unlikely that he will be driving to any squad sessions, nor that anyone will be asking him for a left home!

by **RDW** Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:58 pm

Worth remembering Laidlaw is the ultimate pro and team player - Townsend might have asked him to hang around the squad for his influence for one more 6N, in the knowledge that he'll be bench spot at best.

by 123456789. Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:46 am

I think it's got to be Laidlaw's time. He was completely off of the pace at the World Cup. It's got to Horne and Price at 9. The third place is up for grabs but ideally it shouldn't be Pyrgos or Laidlaw.

by **RDW** Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:19 pm

Laidlaw has announced his retirement!

He'll certainly go down as a legend of the professional era for Scotland.

by **BigGee** Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:49 pm

That was the right call for him nothing left to prove or acheive. Time for the next generation to step up.

by **RDW** Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:56 pm

https://www.scottishrugby.org/fanzone/laidlaw-international-career

Great video

Sad

by **BigGee** Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:37 pm

I emjoyed watching that. I was at that France game and it really did seem to mean a lot to him, i had never seen him waving at the crowd before like that

He has been a model pro and has rung every bit of talent and ability out of himself. Been a great plsyer for us despite his slow passing!

by tigertattie Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:25 pm

Has anyone checked to see how Glove is?

This news so close to Christmas could ruin his festive celebrations.

by **BigGee** Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:35 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50841783

Nice tribute to GL from Tom English, 'he earned the respect of his peers a long time ago!'

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:33 am

Despite his shortcomings I am sad to see Laidlaw go. His passion for the game and for Scotland were obvious for all to see whenever he played, something that a few of our players seem to lack. I imagine he wont renew his contract at clermont either. Hope post rugby life treats him well!

by bsando Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:19 am

So he decides to retire. It really was a split vote on here as to wether he would or wouldn't but I think he has made the right choice to retire now months after the Japan loss. Laidlaw is also benching quite a bit at the moment for Clermont so he was always going to struggle to get in the match day squad in the 2020 6N.

What a career though! I'll never forget his contribution to the tight QF Heineken cup match against Toulouse. He excelled at every club he played at and was just a brilliant manager of games. His leadership at the 2015 RWC was outstanding and he had a wonderful professional relationship with Vern Cotter and Townsend. A lot of recent highs to look back on proudly, particularly some stellar wins at home.

by **RDW** Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:21 am

Laidlaw's been our get out of jail card for basically the last 5 years - will be interesting to see who steps up.

by bsando Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:23 am

I wonder who will kick for goal now? Russell hasn't been kicking penalties or conversions for Racing this season, Maxime Machenaud has been doing that. Still I think he is a pretty decent kicker though and should do fine. Hogg for the long ones.

by **RDW** Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:26 am

It will be Russell with Hastings the number 2 I suppose. But you're right it's not ideal he's not regularly kicking. He has become a lot more consistent over the last few seasons so it will be a shame if he loses that due to inactivity at Racing.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:28 pm

It's Toonie. Horne will be taking the kicks

by tigertattie Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:18 pm

Horne can bugger off

by **RDW** Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:27 pm

https://www.facebook.com/1213226295459070/posts/2582627938518892/

Now this is why I'm never confident about the 6N!

by TJ Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:04 am

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:35 am

So looks like we have no defence coach for the 6Ns. Combined with Wilson moving on afterwards we better prepare for a royal shafting! This could be worse than the 6Ns Johnson took charge of, a very unsettled coaching set up. Expect Blair may be next to announce a move.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:17 am

Just as I say that a rafter of announcements are made. It would seem they were right about getting an ex ospreys coach for defence... has coached the tahs defensively last season, anyone know what their defence was like?

by **RDW** Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:46 am

To add some context to Nelly's posts, Matt Taylor has left to join Australia with immediate effect (bit random as they don't have a game for 5 months) and these blokes have joined us

https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/scotland-coaching-team-takes-shape

There goes our one advantage of having a settled coaching group over the other teams!

by **BigGee** Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:54 am

https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/scotland-coaching-team-takes-shape

Steve Tandy was Ospreys coach in their better days but also into the period of their decline, so hard to say how he will do. It will be interesting to get the Welsh perspective on that appointment. I guess Toonie must rate him and clearly they have been working on this appointment for a while. In truth Matt Taylor, despite him being highly rated, has never convinced me and it is hard to say that defence under him, was not fairly leaky.

De Villiers seems a pretty solid appointment and certainly has the pedigree to be a good scrum coach, so that is promising at least.

by **BigGee** Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:03 am

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-coach-who-turning-heads-16025766

WOL is not exactly a bastion of solid inquestive journalism but they seem to reckon that he has been doing pretty well out there with the Tah's.

It is pretty unusual for any NH coach to want to test themselves in that environment, so fair play to him for that.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:46 pm

Well even if he is good I dont think we'll see it this 6Ns. The biggest impact may be from de villiers as thats a very niche area of the game that takes tweaks in technique rather than whole tactical change.

by 123456789. Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:02 pm

I’m wondering if this was a decision that suited all parties. With Australia not having a game for five months. In competitive games this season we’ve been about as watertight as a sieve. It’s probably time for a freshen up and new ideas. Tandy and Wilson both having been head coaches in the past may mean they’re unlikely to be yes men.
With Barclay, Laidlaw and Seymour moving on and the coaching team changing up it seems we’re moving into a new era.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:15 pm

Aye but if it was porous before, it'll now be a gaping hole until there is any semblance of order. It'll take at least the 6Ns for any new defensive systems to settle in.

Not convinced this will be a turning point. I can see it ending in a few really crap losses like with Robinson. I'm trying to reduce my alcohol intake next year but I think I'm going to struggle watching Scotland's 6Ns sober!

by bsando Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:11 pm

Hah just the other day we were wondering about scrum coach and if Scotland had one. Seemingly not! Madness if you ask me. Well both appointments seem pretty decent to me. Tandy had a horrid time at Ospreys in his final year and to see him bounce back like this is a really nice story. Looking forward to seeing what they bring to the national side..

by jimbopip Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:54 pm

BigGee wrote:https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-coach-who-turning-heads-16025766

WOL is not exactly a bastion of solid inquestive journalism but they seem to reckon that he has been doing pretty well out there with the Tah's.

It is pretty unusual for any NH coach to want to test themselves in that environment, so fair play to him for that.

That's what I really like about Gee, you get neologisms for free.

Regardless of whether tandy and De Villiers are the next Clough and Taylor or the new Morecambe and Wise the SRU are certainly backing Toonie. No way will he be leaving after the 6Nations....he has "a new coaching team and it will take time for the results to come through."

It's either inspired on the buffties' part or Toonie is playing the old "Three White Envelopes" trick.

by bsando Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:50 pm

The good news I suppose is people behind the scenes have been busy making changes and looking forwards. The worry was nothing would change and more defensive lapses would continue. At least now Scotland will be trying something new that will hopefully turn out for the best. More of the same in attack by looks of it though

by 123456789. Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:34 am

jimbopip wrote:
BigGee wrote:https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-coach-who-turning-heads-16025766

WOL is not exactly a bastion of solid inquestive journalism but they seem to reckon that he has been doing pretty well out there with the Tah's.

It is pretty unusual for any NH coach to want to test themselves in that environment, so fair play to him for that.

That's what I really like about Gee, you get neologisms for free.

Regardless of whether tandy and De Villiers are the next Clough and Taylor or the new Morecambe and Wise the SRU are certainly backing Toonie. No way will he be leaving after the 6Nations....he has "a new coaching team and it will take time for the results to come through."

It's either inspired on the buffties' part or Toonie is playing the old "Three White Envelopes" trick.

I'd disagree with this. He's now more exposed than ever. If I had to pin four reasons for our poor world cup: 1. Selection - We had no X-Factor centres, he got the big decisions wrong. To go without Hutchinson or Jones was a mistake. To take Wilson and Barclay equally silly. 2. Apparent tactical intransigence - retaining tactics that had failed previously 3. Defence - In the toughest warm up game (France away), and the toughest world cup games we shipped more than four tries with comparative ease 4. Key players coming off of their peak - Laidlaw was too slow in Japan, Seymour ineffective, Barclay not quite there.

The first two were Townsend's fault. The second two have passed to someone else. If we continue to struggle then the blame will lie firmly at Townsend's door. A team of players overwhelmingly brought through at Glasgow or to Scotland by him. Coaches picked by him. Players at their peak. If in twelve months time we've gone backwards or stayed stilled as the rest of the Rugby World has moved forward, as they surely will and as they always do then I'm afraid it's time to wield the axe.

by **NeilyBroon** Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:22 am

Agree a lot of the blame lies with Toonie.

Don't know if the SRU will fire him because of the manner he was hired. Would be a lot of egg on dodsons face, let alone toonie. Cant help feeling Vern is sitting smiling wryly to himself when he sees the chaos, would be a bit of karma if Toonie ended up getting shafted.

However, theres more than Toonie in this, therefore I think itll take scotland dropping out of the top 10 before the SRU finally wield the axe.

by jimbopip Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:31 am

I see your point numbers, but playing devil's advocate; Not A Pony was low on confidence and had no form or match fitness, Hutchinson looks a real prospect but using the All Blacks yards-stick that a centre needs almost 20 caps befor you see what he can really do then the World Cup came round too soon for him, conversely Barcs and Frodo were just too far on the down slope and really should have stayed at home ( the humidity was probably the last straw for both of them), Jonny Bell will offer a different POV as regards attacking tactics and Tandy will be there to restructure the defence.
If in twelve months time we've gone backwards or stayed stilled as the rest of the Rugby World has moved forward, as they surely will and as they always do then I'm afraid it's time to wield the axe.
You are probably correct here, but I did say Toonie has bought himself some time and wouldn't be going after this 6 Nations.

Back in Stalinist Russia a worker gets promoted to Director of his Steel works. As his predecessor is being led off to the Gulags the worker shakes his hand and says, "I shall be joining you soon. I'll never meet the production targets." His old boss says, "I've left three white envelopes in the desk drawer for you. Open the first a year from now."
A year later, he is not meeting the targets and he opens the first envelope.
"Blame me. Tell the Politburo things were in such a state of chaos it's taken you a year just to sort out the mess I left. That'll buy you another year."
So he does and it works.
A year later he is in the same trouble, so he opens the second white envelope.
"Things are still bad? Blame me. Tell the Politburo that the mess was so bad that once you sorted it out it has taken a full year to put the structures in place to turn things around and improvements will soon start to happen. This will buy you another year.
So he does and it works.
A year later he is in the same trouble, so he opens the third envelope.
"Things are still bad? Send your secretary out to buy three white envelopes."

Tandy and Bell may be the first two envelopes.

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