PGA Tour: The Players: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Well done to Tyrrell Hatton, great win at Bay Hill which continued the run of non-American winners - Day, Leishman, McIlroy, Molinari, Hatton.
This was also an Open Championship qualifier and Keith Mitchell (for the second year running), Danny Lee and Dahmen get to battle the traffic at Royal St.George's in July.

2).For the second week running, the course set-up seemed to make scoring unnecessarily tricky given the prevailing weather conditions. A war of attrition, but not necessarily the most attractive golf for the TV viewer to enjoy.
Hopefully the set-up at TPC Sawgrass will enable the world's best to play their shots.

3).Scott Piercy made news for all the wrong reasons last week and now Tour Commish Monahan has expressed disappointment "in the lack of judgment used" and "that it has been addressed with Scott directly". Good thing Monahan didn't say "he knows better" because Piercy clearly doesn't. But his sponsors do, thankfully, tho' any Tour punishment will be kept unpublished - unless he starts missing tournaments, from which we might draw our own conclusions.
Personally, I'd like to have seen his "invitation" to Bay Hill revoked, but no such disapproval reported from the API.

4).Interesting graph from princedrac's twitter account this week showing the top ten owgr points-getters at The Players:
Four Americans: Woods, DLIII, Furyk, Couples
Three Aussies: Elk, Scott, Shark
Nick Price
Sergio & Langer
A good week, of which there haven't been many recently, will see Garcia can jump from 2nd to 1st, ahead of Tiger.

5).That's reflective of an international honours board with eight of the last twelve winners being "overseas" players.
And first-timers at TPC have a tough time too - after Jerry Pate won on the course's debut in 1982, only Hal Sutton and Craig Perks have won trophy on their first trip. Leading "rookie" last year was Eddie Pepperell who stormed home in 3rd place - but he's busy trying to figure out how you get dq'd three times in less than 2 years.

6).This week looks like the exact halfway point of the pre-Play-Off PGA Tour season, the 23rd event out of a total of 46. About 50 pros have already won enough FedEx Points to assure them a tee-time at the Northern Trust, Round 1 of the FedEx Cup Play-Offs.
Not many are Europeans: McIlroy, Hatton, Rahm, Hovland.

7).And only Fleetwood among other Europeans is comfortably placed, for now.
Those who have struggled this season so far, but are exempt at least through next year, include McDowell (79th), Casey (93rd), Lowry (140th), Molinari (168th), Donald (assuming he takes another earnings exemption - 172nd), Garcia (179th), Willett (181st), Stenson (197th), Wallace (202nd), Rose (205th),
While this lot, all not yet exempt for 2020/21 have it all to do: Straka (82nd), Norlander (84th), Knox (90th), Fitzpatrick (100th), Noren (107th), Rafa C-B (120th), Poulter (128th), Cappelen (130th), Laird (158th), Ventura (175th), Power (201st), Bjerregard (224th), Lewis (227th), plus 3 or 4 others on more tenuous status.

8).But one or two American "faces" are also struggling, with these three less than half-way to a Play-Off goal about 400 pts:
110th: Spieth
111th: D.Johnson
213th: Koepka

9).The Florida "Swing" has a musical chairs of dates next year, starting with Bay Hill, then The Players, followed by "Honda". No word yet on how Valspar fits in, but hopefully retains its fourth slot in Florida.

10).Finally, the Top 64 in the owgr's after The Players will qualify for the WGC-MatchPlay in Austin in a fortnight's time.

Any Valspar Notes will be added here next week.

The Waste Management regularly sets records for daily golf attendance v ANY tournament. It's historically a strong ratings draw too, but I'll need to run down those comparative numbers. (I know this because I attended the event a few years ago with one of the primary sponsors - GEICO, a US Property and Casualty insurer - and the media person for GEICO was bullish on the numbers he was seeing.)

Hard to determine relative interest ... but some interesting stats on US viewership:

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2019/02/pga-tour-phoenix-open-ratings/

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/major-golf-ratings-historical-masters-us-open-british-pga-championship-tiger-woods/

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:Super

Why are you so invested in showing the pres cup isn't a big deal?

Because GPB is insistent its an event with huge interest, when demonstrably its not even anywhere near the size of many other golf events. Not even as big as the Waste Management.
Highly ironic that he says my disdain for it is xenophobia and jingoism when that's the basis of virtually every post he makes.

(bolding emphasis mine)


That is a lie. It doesn't surprise that you think I said that. You read the messenger, rather than the message.

I never said it was a huge event. Its not. Its an exhibition, just like the Ryder Cup is an exhibition.
but just like the Ryder Cup, it is a highly competitive exhibition that both sides want to win. FWIW, it is not as contentious as the Ryder Cup, and I am not so sure that is a bad thing.

Its not in the Top 10 events of the year. What I have said that it is an event with International Interest which you insist is insignificant. You have opined that it is an event that nbo one cares about.

That is the basis of my CITATIONS (NoLayingUp podcasts with EVR and Cam Smith) expressing their respective countries interest and their interest in the event.

Not every event can be a huge event. The Majors, The Players, the Playoff events, the WGCs, and yes the Ryder Cup are huge events on the calendar. That is about 20% of the schedule. I have never put the PC in that category of golf events. Never

Just like many Euros don't give a Rats Arse about the Prez Cup, about 1/3 of the World's golf fandom don't give a Rats arse

Well... so much for my opinion... OWGR and Rolex suspends their World Rankings...

https://twitter.com/OWGRltd/status/1241001415344115713

robopz wrote:Well... so much for my opinion... OWGR and Rolex suspends their World Rankings...

https://twitter.com/OWGRltd/status/1241001415344115713

The tennis world has done the same, robo.

So, my earlier question still applies (tho' not to tennis):
Are all Tours to start back up again at the same time? Clearly they didn't all suspend simultaneously . . . . .
If they don't, there's the risk/inevitability of owgr's being a bunch of apples and oranges.

robopz wrote:Well... so much for my opinion... OWGR and Rolex suspends their World Rankings...

https://twitter.com/OWGRltd/status/1241001415344115713

IMO, they either had to freeze the rankings, or pro-rate the minimum and max divisors.

Koepka putting up pretty obscene numbers...Left-Handed

https://twitter.com/EPatGolf/status/1241030913158451202

kwinigolfer wrote:

robopz wrote:Well... so much for my opinion... OWGR and Rolex suspends their World Rankings...

https://twitter.com/OWGRltd/status/1241001415344115713

The tennis world has done the same, robo.

So, my earlier question still applies (tho' not to tennis):
Are all Tours to start back up again at the same time? Clearly they didn't all suspend simultaneously . . . . .
If they don't, there's the risk/inevitability of owgr's being a bunch of apples and oranges.

Not sure they know exactly what they're going to do to restart... Plenty of time to figure that out though

Question has been going around who if anybody along the pros benefits or gets hurt by this stoppage..

I would think Brooks, Tiger & JT could benefit from it. Extra time to work out theie helth/game issues... And Spieth goes without saying. That dude has been so lost a little pause to not lose any more ground is probably a real good thing for him right now.

Sungjae Im might be the biggest loser in this. First he lives out of a suitcase, and man that guy was on a roll. How many times have we seen something as simple as a rain or darkness delay derail somebody's momentum. Well how about 10 weeks or more? Reed, Rahm, Hatton, Scott, Westwood & GMac were all on a bit of a heater this year so far as well.

robopz wrote:Question has been going around who if anybody along the pros benefits or gets hurt by this stoppage..

I would think Brooks, Tiger & JT could benefit from it. Extra time to work out theie helth/game issues...  And Spieth goes without saying.  That dude has been so lost a little pause to not lose any more ground is probably a real good thing for him right now.

Sungjae Im might be the biggest loser in this. First he lives out of a suitcase, and man that guy was on a roll.  How many times have we seen something as simple as a rain or darkness delay derail somebody's momentum.  Well how about 10 weeks or more?   Reed, Rahm, Hatton, Scott, Westwood & GMac were all on a bit of a heater this year so far as well.

That's an interesting point of view, robo.

I have been thinking about golfers for whom this might signal (whether they know it or not) the end of their competitive career - possibly Morgan Hoffmann might be an obvious one close to the top of that list.

55 years ago, or for football fans just before England won their only World Cup, there was a very localised polio epidemic in England centered around a town which hosted what we would now call a Premier League team. They had to postpone several early season matches (I mean, who wants polio?), and by the time they resumed play, they were pretty much tailed off at the bottom of the table, never to recover and were relegated as a result. The point is, no-one of their players would have anticipated that in pre-season.
And there must be some Tour players around the world that, unknowingly, are at the end of their road. (And that could apply to Seniors too - less time for Langer to knock Irwin off his hale and hearty perch for instance.)
I think your inclusion of lw1 and McDool could be quite prescient! Whilst I would put a question mark against Brendon Todd's name.

Brooks Koepka hitting an 8 iron 194 yards and a driver 293 yards.
Nothing unusual about that, you might think, in this day and age. But left handed? Is he ambidextrous?

Johnny Miller-esque!



Some very good points raised in this press conference by Paul Casey:

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/paul-casey-tours-will-need-address-eligibility-if-hiatus-extends


Imagine Tour officials and player reps, on both sides of the Atlantic, are pulling their hair out, trying to rationalise the temporary normal.

I am sure there will be exceptions for "new Event" clause and the 15 event mininum.

But the Top 125 might be something different. those players barely inside the Top 125 and those outside the Top 125 better bring their A-Games or they might find themselves in KFF.

Here are the latest COVID-19 professional schedule disruptions as best I can determine at this time.  A lot of the GREEN are currently noted as postponed, but most are likely to convert to cancellations sooner or later.  This covers only PGAT, ET, LPGA, KFT, CHAMPIONS & a few other select events, but virtually everything is shut down now except for some non-OWGR mini tour things.

GPB wrote:I am sure there will be exceptions for "new Event" clause and the 15 event mininum.

But the Top 125 might be something different.  those players barely inside the Top 125 and those outside the Top 125 better bring their A-Games or they might find themselves in KFF.

Agree entirely on the new and 15 event minimums.

Don't know what to think on top 125 right now. I guess it depends on when they actually get back playing. But if a schedule restart delays into June... not sure there are ANY right/fair options for everybody.

If anything, I'd probably be for reducing the KFT grad class to 25 for one year, then extend top125 to 150 & have 151-175 with conditional status same as current 126-150.

In the absence of better advice, I'm going all Paul Simon - he got "all the news I need from the weather report".

In the absence of governmental statistical reports - I get all the virus news I need from princedrac.


robo,
That seems very fair, though would think June is very optimistic.

Kwini... Agreed June is WAAAAY optimistic.

robopz wrote:If anything, I'd probably be for reducing the KFT grad class to 25 for one year, then extend top125 to 150 & have 151-175 with conditional status same as current 126-150.

Ugh. I don't like this idea at all, but given the "closed shop" conflict of interest of a Member governed organization, this is probably what is going to happen.

Remember, the membership did have a chance to play nearly half the tournaments of the Pre-Playoff year. More than enough time to have a representative sample. Even more if they resume play sometime on or before early summer.

and i agree. there is not a fair resolution. Someone is getting screwed

GPB wrote:

robopz wrote:If anything, I'd probably be for reducing the KFT grad class to 25 for one year, then extend top125 to 150 & have 151-175 with conditional status same as current 126-150.

Ugh.  I don't like this idea at all, but given the "closed shop" conflict of interest of a Member governed organization, this is probably what is going to happen.

Remember, the membership did have a chance to play nearly half the tournaments of the Pre-Playoff year.  More than enough time to have a representative sample.  Even more if they resume play sometime on or before early summer.

and i agree.  there is not a fair resolution.  Someone is getting screwed

it's a members tour, and it has to be about members first (and the PGA tour players are the members). You do what's right for them first, and the minor leagues are secondary.

But it's about the KFT season as well. If the PGAT gets back to playing, they're going to lose 1/4 to 1/3 of their season, but the KFT could lose up to half of theirs. I wouldn't want to promote the full 50 on the basis of that.

Bottom line, any kind of reasonable schedule is screwed for everybody. All options and out of the box thinking should be on the table.

Interesting to read that some mini-tours are still conducting tournaments in Florida & Arizona . . . . . . . . not sure how they get away with that, and certainly not with a straight face.

GPB wrote:Koepka putting up pretty obscene numbers...Left-Handed

https://twitter.com/EPatGolf/status/1241030913158451202

That is pretty ridiculous.

golfchannel.com reporting that Pete Cowen reckons his sickness ticks all the coronavirus boxes.
Statistically, and not just because of this, players are bound to be affected, but he was working closely with pros at The Players.
Unsettling.

kwinigolfer wrote:golfchannel.com reporting that Pete Cowen reckons his sickness ticks all the coronavirus boxes.
Statistically, and not just because of this, players are bound to be affected, but he was working closely with pros at The Players.
Unsettling.

Yeah. I can see even Brooks Koepkas swing now looks weird.

Because of NY Gov Cuomo's order regarding suspension of non-essential businesses, Winged Foot is now closed so any US Open plans for ten-ish weeks time look increasingly dodgy.
Some speculation that they might fancy the date left vacant by the postponement of the Olympics, but all this seems wishful thinking.

Of course, Drumpf expects the economy to be opening up again by Easter and his approval rating is at an all-time high. So you never know . . . . . . . and, as usual, he certainly doesn't.

For all those in the UK ... hope you get to see Cuomo. Articulate, compassionate, and with leadership skills that are lacking in the District of Columbia. Doesn't need a "rally" every 10 days to fuel his ego.

Two weeks ago my brother returned from a cruise from (wait for it) Italy and Spain, then came back to the US through (wait for it, again) NYC.

He's been in quarantine for 14 days as has his wife (who is a nurse and has been tested). All good.

What did Churchill say? When you are walking through hell, keep going.

Stay safe cyberfriends!

Assuming that things start to get back to normalcy in a couple of months, it will be interesting how things shake out.

Open Championship, first major of the year???

IMO, PGA is more likely to get the Olympic dates, as they don't have Local and Sectional Qualifying.

I can see US Open getting a Labor Day Date (oddly conflicting with the other "US Open") and not in NYC.

Ryder Cup at Original Date.

Masters in early to Mid October

But the PGATour is going to have a cow. They have competing events and they have to protect their interests. I just don't see them kowtowing to the USGA, PGAofA, and the GreenCoats. Maybe one, but not all of them.

They got this thing called the FEDEX Cup. Yes, you can giggle at that notion. But Money Talks and the PGATour is a pretty big fish in pro golf. They are not going to like playing 2nd fiddle.

Oakmont seems to be the de-facto replacement course for the US Open. But I would like to Pinehurst #2.

and here is some out of the box thinking. The R&A bristle (and many others from across the pond) when anyone says "British Open" and insist on everyone calling the "The Open Championship". So what about moving it away from the British Isles? Lets play the 2020 Open Championship in Australia, Royal Melbourne for example. RM was magnificent when it held the PC a few months ago and I think it would provide a great test for the World Best Golfers.

Personally I don't think that there is a cat in hell's chance of the Open going ahead. Already got my tickets so will be delighted to be proved wrong!

I hope it wouldn't be seen as a precedent. But: I reckon Royal Melbourne would be a fantastic choice. (Says he agreeing with GPB's idea.)
Though there'd have to be an R&A reshuffle. The least they could do.

Mini Tour events are still happening.

Sunny Kim wins his 67th Minor League Golf Tour tournament today in Florida. Posting a 59 in the final round of a 36 hole event. Chase Koepka finished T10.

https://www.minorleaguegolf.com/result.asp?ID=2575

He has quite a resume, wonder how close he ever got to the Web Tour.

https://www.minorleaguegolf.com/bio.asp?record_ID=468

GPB wrote:Assuming that things start to get back to normalcy in a couple of months, it will be interesting how things shake out.

Open Championship, first major of the year???

IMO, PGA is more likely to get the Olympic dates, as they don't have Local and Sectional Qualifying.

I can see US Open getting a Labor Day Date  (oddly conflicting with the other "US Open") and not in NYC.

Ryder Cup at Original Date.

Masters in early to Mid October

But the PGATour is going to have a cow.  They have competing events and they have to protect their interests.  I just don't see them kowtowing to the USGA, PGAofA, and the GreenCoats.  Maybe one, but not all of them.  

They got this  thing called the FEDEX Cup.  Yes, you can giggle at that notion.  But Money Talks and the PGATour is a pretty big fish in pro golf.  They are not going to like playing 2nd fiddle.

Oakmont seems to be the de-facto replacement course for the US Open.  But I would like to Pinehurst #2.

and here is some out of the box thinking.  The R&A bristle (and many others from across the pond) when anyone says "British Open" and insist on everyone calling the "The Open Championship".  So what about moving it away from the British Isles?  Lets play the 2020 Open Championship in Australia, Royal Melbourne for example.  RM was magnificent when it held the PC a few months ago and I think it would provide a great test for the World Best Golfers.

 I don't think the PGA tour (or it's events) will have the least bit of problems making accommodations to get majors in this calendar year.  At least not after Labor Day. There would have to be some compensation or revenue shares for the adjustments, but they would work it out.  Assuming they could actually go in August... Olympic week and Labor Day week are available to either either play majors or shift events displaced by majors.

As for the Open playing Royal Melbourne?  I think that would be an awesome idea.  Problem is the Open isn't really THE Open or it really could play anywhere.  Maybe British Open is incorrect, perhaps GB&I Open is more accurate. It's not going out of there.

It's all going to be over in two weeks according to Trump.

Plus, according to the POTUS, this was all a democratic hoax to begin with. Very reassuring.

I just learned that no decision has been made yet to cancel the LPGA KPMG that is to be held at Aronimink (my club) in late June. Given the smaller crowds, build out, etc., makes sense to me that a decision on this tournament can be delayed for some time. I'm hearing the first week of May is the go/no go date.

Shotrock wrote:I just learned that no decision has been made yet to cancel the LPGA KPMG that is to be held at Aronimink (my club) in late June. Given the smaller crowds, build out, etc., makes sense to me that a decision on this tournament can be delayed for some time. I'm hearing the first week of May is the go/no go date.

Agree 6-8 weeks out is a reasonable go/no go decision time frame for most events. Things have to be going seriously in the right direction to even consider it even that far in advance. And even for the bigger events, we can go without the monstrous stands, pavilions and such for the time being. I think we're rapidly approaching the no-go date for both the Women's US Open here at Champions and the men's at Wingedfoot.

Have it without spectators. Fans/TV-audiences and sponsors would like it. Players probably less so, but alternatives are running out.

Not exactly a PGA Tour member, but Ryder Cup team member of the mid-70's, Ireland's John O'Leary, is reported to have died.
Played 4 matches, lost the lot, collectively, to Trevino, Snead, Irwin, Miller & Weiskopf.

Speaking of non PGATour members, I was looking for the bio of Curtis Strange
So I open the Player page of pgatour dot com and start searching

I click on "S" for Strange and the first page of "S" names I come up with this page

Spoiler:

The circled players have never played a PGATour event, let alone be a PGATour member.

GPB,
Inclusion in that is much more random than comprehensive!

GPB - There must be a reason for that ... but I can't imagine what it is? Perhaps Robo could offer a theory.

Shotrock wrote:GPB - There must be a reason for that ... but I can't imagine what it is? Perhaps Robo could offer a theory.

I looked for my name, but no, it wasn't there!

Yes, hoping he checks in. I sent the screen grab to a couple PGATour guys, but not answer.

The PGATour player profile pages are set up absolutely horribly. Navigation through the profiles is cumbersome.

GPB wrote:

Shotrock wrote:GPB - There must be a reason for that ... but I can't imagine what it is? Perhaps Robo could offer a theory.

I looked for my name, but no, it wasn't there!

Yes, hoping he checks in.  I sent the screen grab to a couple PGATour guys, but not answer.

The PGATour player profile pages are set up absolutely horribly.  Navigation through the profiles  is cumbersome.  

 I can't give specific answers... but I got some theories...

1) These "odd" players are in the PGA Tour's headshot photo database along with MANY, MANY others I never heard of (the vast majority do NOT display on the public pages). The photo DB includes players from all PGAT related tours. To be in there it means at some point they participated in some PGAT sanctioned/sponsored event that was big enough PGAT would have their headshot photo operation working at player checkin.  The ones showing in GPB's example are amateur/junior players... so those could have been anything from participating the Pure Insurance Championship (where they play with Champions Tour players) or the AJGA Junior Players Championship (a PGAT sponsored tournament) or the Junior PGA Championship (which PGAT also supports).  There's probably more events I can't think of offhand.

2) My guess is they are showing up on the pro players page because of some kind of simple internal "tagging" or database parsing error.  Somebody probably just erroneously tagged these couple of guys with a code identifying them as PGAT, so when the DB calls PGAT players... they're displayed.  I'm not gonna check in detail... but spot-checking...  after these guys near the top of  the "S's"...  I'm not seeing more.

Thanks Robo.

Davis Love's house was destroyed in a fire last night. No one injured.

https://twitter.com/usatodaysports/status/1243586328861777920

According to realtor.com, the home has been on the market since 2013, and is currently listed for $4.475 million.

Thank Robo.

Sad about DL's house.

GPB wrote:
According to realtor.com, the home has been on the market since 2013, and is currently listed for $4.475 million.

Insurance fraud then.

#lovenest

Reports in the US media that the USGA has pulled the plug on the June date for the US Open, hoping to stage it later in the summer. That just leaves The Open among the premier tournaments of the PGA Tour season.

As I don't think anyone gets sick at Sandwich, against club rules you know, perhaps this will go ahead. Still think RM would be a wonderful alternative.

Reports are saying the PGATour is offering loans to the players against future earnings for the players that need them.

Can't imagine too many PGATour pros need the loans, but the the developmental tour players might need some supplemental income.

https://twitter.com/RobertLusetich/status/1243677620178321408

kwinigolfer wrote:Reports in the US media that the USGA has pulled the plug on the June date for the US Open, hoping to stage it later in the summer. That just leaves The Open among the premier tournaments of the PGA Tour season.

As I don't think anyone gets sick at Sandwich, against club rules you know, perhaps this will go ahead. Still think RM would be a wonderful alternative.

Joel Beall & Brian Wacker from Golf Digest give a pretty good recap of the thinking on 2020 majors right now... https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-masters-in-november-british-open-in-september-ryder-cup-in-flux-golf-2020-plans-under-discussion

Really hadn't though much of the TV-Network conflicts between Football and Golf.  I wonder how many hoops CBS tries to negotiate while trying to broadcast the Masters.

I can see them trying to get their NFL Sunday game on Sunday Night (trading with NBC).

I can envision some petty turf wars.

Interesting robo, Thanks.
I'd still LOVE to send The Open Down Under - and that would somewhat obviate the daylight concerns if it was in, say November.

The US Open seems the bigger imponderable to me - I don't know that Pittsburgh will be a much better solution than Winged Foot. Nate Silver reported yesterday that, of the ten states with the fastest growing incidence of corona, nine are red states. Which is indicative of the fact that this virus will get (almost?) everywhere sooner or later (tho doubt the WH reviews 538.com). Including Pittsburgh - but Pinehurst could perhaps be better isolated.

Kwini... Like I said before, moving the Open down under would be awesome, but there's about as much chance of that as them relocating it to Doral.   Pinehurst would be a very legitimate US Open alternative though...