PGA Tour: The Players: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Well done to Tyrrell Hatton, great win at Bay Hill which continued the run of non-American winners - Day, Leishman, McIlroy, Molinari, Hatton.
This was also an Open Championship qualifier and Keith Mitchell (for the second year running), Danny Lee and Dahmen get to battle the traffic at Royal St.George's in July.

2).For the second week running, the course set-up seemed to make scoring unnecessarily tricky given the prevailing weather conditions. A war of attrition, but not necessarily the most attractive golf for the TV viewer to enjoy.
Hopefully the set-up at TPC Sawgrass will enable the world's best to play their shots.

3).Scott Piercy made news for all the wrong reasons last week and now Tour Commish Monahan has expressed disappointment "in the lack of judgment used" and "that it has been addressed with Scott directly". Good thing Monahan didn't say "he knows better" because Piercy clearly doesn't. But his sponsors do, thankfully, tho' any Tour punishment will be kept unpublished - unless he starts missing tournaments, from which we might draw our own conclusions.
Personally, I'd like to have seen his "invitation" to Bay Hill revoked, but no such disapproval reported from the API.

4).Interesting graph from princedrac's twitter account this week showing the top ten owgr points-getters at The Players:
Four Americans: Woods, DLIII, Furyk, Couples
Three Aussies: Elk, Scott, Shark
Nick Price
Sergio & Langer
A good week, of which there haven't been many recently, will see Garcia can jump from 2nd to 1st, ahead of Tiger.

5).That's reflective of an international honours board with eight of the last twelve winners being "overseas" players.
And first-timers at TPC have a tough time too - after Jerry Pate won on the course's debut in 1982, only Hal Sutton and Craig Perks have won trophy on their first trip. Leading "rookie" last year was Eddie Pepperell who stormed home in 3rd place - but he's busy trying to figure out how you get dq'd three times in less than 2 years.

6).This week looks like the exact halfway point of the pre-Play-Off PGA Tour season, the 23rd event out of a total of 46. About 50 pros have already won enough FedEx Points to assure them a tee-time at the Northern Trust, Round 1 of the FedEx Cup Play-Offs.
Not many are Europeans: McIlroy, Hatton, Rahm, Hovland.

7).And only Fleetwood among other Europeans is comfortably placed, for now.
Those who have struggled this season so far, but are exempt at least through next year, include McDowell (79th), Casey (93rd), Lowry (140th), Molinari (168th), Donald (assuming he takes another earnings exemption - 172nd), Garcia (179th), Willett (181st), Stenson (197th), Wallace (202nd), Rose (205th),
While this lot, all not yet exempt for 2020/21 have it all to do: Straka (82nd), Norlander (84th), Knox (90th), Fitzpatrick (100th), Noren (107th), Rafa C-B (120th), Poulter (128th), Cappelen (130th), Laird (158th), Ventura (175th), Power (201st), Bjerregard (224th), Lewis (227th), plus 3 or 4 others on more tenuous status.

8).But one or two American "faces" are also struggling, with these three less than half-way to a Play-Off goal about 400 pts:
110th: Spieth
111th: D.Johnson
213th: Koepka

9).The Florida "Swing" has a musical chairs of dates next year, starting with Bay Hill, then The Players, followed by "Honda". No word yet on how Valspar fits in, but hopefully retains its fourth slot in Florida.

10).Finally, the Top 64 in the owgr's after The Players will qualify for the WGC-MatchPlay in Austin in a fortnight's time.

Any Valspar Notes will be added here next week.

Hadn't realised that, on Thursday at The Players, a fan was escorted out of TPC Sawgrass for asking Patrick Reed to sign his shovel.
The things we're missing . . . . . . .

Can they squeeze in The Masters before the Ryder Cup or even the Playoffs?
Not sure the PGAT would like it ‘interfering’ with the playoffs.

pedro wrote:Can they squeeze in The Masters before the Ryder Cup or even the Playoffs?
Not sure the PGAT would like it ‘interfering’ with the playoffs.

I think something with a date between the Play-Offs and Ryder Cup is the only option as far as the US schedule (and course condition) is concerned, but it could be hugely disruptive to the European Tour.
Another possibility that I've seen mooted is that The Masters has such a huge treasure chest that they might "buy" a tournament off to gain a place on the schedule.

Regardless, a late summer / autumn date would see the course play quite different under summer conditions that it does in the spring. Which could be quite interesting.

Koepka & Rahm join Rory in rejecting the PGL.

Kinda surprised about Brooksie, but good for all three. (And would be stunned if Justin Thomas didn't join them soon.)

That has to be game over for the pgl?

PGL scorecard...

Definite NO
1. Rory
2. Rahm
3. Brooks (yeah... I was "kinda" surprised too. But his comment that pro golf is about more than just 48 players is 100% spot on)

Presumptive YES
1. Phil
2. Some others who will never admit it now (as Phil won't either)

TOTALS: PGL = 99%+ D.O.A

- - -

On another note... To all our blog "friends" wherever you are from or wherever you are... Be well. Be safe.

Can't see Ryder Cup happening now either. Qualification process is in tatters.

kwinigolfer wrote:Another possibility that I've seen mooted is that The Masters has such a huge treasure chest that they might "buy" a tournament off to gain a place on the schedule.

Speaking to the Senior Pro at my course, who is in contact with a number of caddies on tour, he has been told that the Masters will take place this year. Take it with a pinch of salt, though.

If they cancel the Open Championship this year, will it still be played in St Andrews next year? It won't be the 150th edition anymore, it will be the 149th.

GPB wrote:If they cancel the Open Championship this year, will it still be played in St Andrews next year?  It won't be the 150th edition anymore, it will be the 149th.

Agreed, but they only switched St Andrews to next year  from the usual 5 year rotation so they could make St Andrews the 150th playing for some sort of retarded round number consistency.
I cannot see the old farts in the R and A allowing a seven year gap.

Obviously one of the measures of a pro golfer is the OWGR placings.
Will the rankings continue to roll on a weekly basis, decrementing points as they go along?

Or:
There's some speculation, apparently, that the owgr's could be frozen as at Monday's date (March 16th) until normal service has been resumed.
Makes sense to me.

I think Prince Drac made a comment that the player who won the only tournament to finish last weekend will become the world number 1 in 2023 or something

kwinigolfer wrote:Obviously one of the measures of a pro golfer is the OWGR placings.
Will the rankings continue to roll on a weekly basis, decrementing points as they go along?

Or:
There's some speculation, apparently, that the owgr's could be frozen as at Monday's date (March 16th) until normal service has been resumed.
Makes sense to me.

You have to freeze the rankings. It would be stupid and pointless not too. There is nothing to be gained from letting them carry on with no one accruing points.

super_realist wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Obviously one of the measures of a pro golfer is the OWGR placings.
Will the rankings continue to roll on a weekly basis, decrementing points as they go along?

Or:
There's some speculation, apparently, that the owgr's could be frozen as at Monday's date (March 16th) until normal service has been resumed.
Makes sense to me.

You have to freeze the rankings. It would be stupid and pointless not too. There is nothing to be gained from letting them carry on with no one accruing points.

Agreed, The only thing that could put the mockers on that is if some Tours started up before the biggies, not to mention the Big Tour.
But curious that they don't seem to have published anything yet; probably consulting princedrac first without realising he's knee deep in plotting coronavirus graphs.

super_realist wrote:Can't see Ryder Cup happening now either. Qualification process is in tatters.

They would make things easier all round if they announced a one-year postponement a la 2001 following 9/11. But make the decision to extend the qualifying process (of course there are Presidents Cup complications . . . . . )

Presidents Cup

Listening to recent NoLayingUp podcasts with Cam Smith and Eric Vn Rooyen, the Presidents Cups are huge to them, and their respective countries.

Don't believe me? Here is a link to their podcasts.

But what the he!! would they know. They are only residents of their country, and not a country that is thousands of miles away, and someone who thinks they are omniscient.

https://player.fm/series/no-laying-up-golf-podcast

=================

Assuming suspension of play continues for 6 months and the OWGR does not adjust the formulas this is what the OWGR Top 10 would like (and some notables).

1 Rory McIlroy
2 Jon Rahm
3 Justin Thomas
4 Patrick Reed
5 Tommy Fleetwood
6 Brooks Koepka
7 Adam Scott
8 Webb Simpson
9 Xander Schauffele
10 Patrick Cantlay

Notable changes in their ranking

12 Tyrrell Hatton (currently #21)
24 Tiger Woods (#11)
50 Max Homa (#73)
60 Franky Molinari (#28)
83 Jason Day (#51)

The simulation confirms that the difference in OWGR averages contracts which means the OWGR will be much more volatile.

Right now, the change in average between #1 and #10 is 3.88 pts. 6 months from now, with no changes in formula, the delta would be 3.09

The delta from #1 and #25 goes from 5.66 to 4.13

The delta from #1 and #50 goes from 7.09 to 5.12

Even though Tiger goes from #11 to #24 in the rankings, his average remains about 4 pts behind Rory's .(currently the delta is 4.01, and the delta in 6 months will be 3.98)

Lots of events mean something to people taking part, doesn't make them good events or ones which viewers care about.

Just because you don't care, doesn't mean that others don't care.

And now PGATour Golf is postponed through PGA Championship. Just announced that Hilton Head, New Orleans, Charlotte, Dallas have been canceled and the PGA has been postponed. Next tournament on the schedule is Colonial.

Pfffffffffft.

Only a rumor, but ESPN is reporting that the Masters is looking at a October 8th date.

And it originates with a tweet from Marina Alex (LPGA player) getting her reservation canceled by a Booking agent for that week

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/28917529/possible-hints-masters-october

https://twitter.com/Marina_Deee/status/1239941555793858561

FWIW, the Shriners and Italian Open are scheduled that week on the PGAT and European Tours.

How will Keith Pelley react if the Masters conflicts with the Italian Open? He nearly had an aneurysm when WGC-B-Stone was scheduled for the sacrosanct French Open in 2016. Two years prior to the Ryder Cup scheduled for Paris in 2018.

And then there is this tweet, saying that the Ryder Cup has been postponed.

I haven't seen any confirmation of this though

https://twitter.com/TelegraphSport/status/1240023304204890121

According to ET website they haven’t got a venue for the Italian Open yet. So it shouldn’t be that difficult to move it.

GPB wrote:And then there is this tweet, saying that the Ryder Cup has been postponed.

I haven't seen any confirmation of this though

https://twitter.com/TelegraphSport/status/1240023304204890121

Well that solves the problem with the Italian Open I guess.

Albeit it seems a bit premature to postpone the RC? Surely they could have tweaked the qualification criteria.

They would be as well postponing all sport for a year and starting again this time next year, cos that's how long this thing's gonna run for. No chance there's any golf pre-July, or that the football season ends by June, just not gonna happen.

GPB wrote:Just because you don't care, doesn't mean that others don't care.

Evidently it's considered a minor event judging by the viewing figures in comparison to the relative populations.

pedro wrote:

GPB wrote:And then there is this tweet, saying that the Ryder Cup has been postponed.

I haven't seen any confirmation of this though

https://twitter.com/TelegraphSport/status/1240023304204890121

Well that solves the problem with the Italian Open I guess.

Albeit it seems a bit premature to postpone the RC? Surely they could have tweaked the qualification criteria.

Captains get 12 picks?

super_realist wrote:Evidently it's considered a minor event judging by the viewing figures in comparison to the relative populations.

You got a cite on that? Or should we just take your word for that? How do the figures compare to viewership of other golf events like the Masters etc.

Remember, "Figures don't lie but liars figure"

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:Evidently it's considered a minor event judging by the viewing figures in comparison to the relative populations.

You got a cite on that? Or should we just take your word for that?  How do the figures compare to viewership of other golf events like the Masters etc.

Remember, "Figures don't lie but liars figure"

Surprised you haven't run out of your pills in the current crisis.

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:Evidently it's considered a minor event judging by the viewing figures in comparison to the relative populations.

You got a cite on that? Or should we just take your word for that?  How do the figures compare to viewership of other golf events like the Masters etc.

Remember, "Figures don't lie but liars figure"

Surprised  you haven't run out of your pills in the current crisis.

Guess I have to put Aloe Gel on my drug store shopping list after that burn!

and also guessing that you don't have a citation to back up your ridiculous claim about viewership.

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:Evidently it's considered a minor event judging by the viewing figures in comparison to the relative populations.

You got a cite on that? Or should we just take your word for that?  How do the figures compare to viewership of other golf events like the Masters etc.

Remember, "Figures don't lie but liars figure"

Surprised  you haven't run out of your pills in the current crisis.

Guess I have to put Aloe Gel on my drug store shopping list after that burn!

and also guessing that you don't have a citation to back up your ridiculous claim about viewership.

It was 1.3 million people. Which is piddling

and why should i believe you.

Because of your reputation of being a gentleman?

LMAO

And be careful, I have a citation that the viewership peaked at 2.15 Million per minute in the USA alone.

Be very very Careful.

RE: Presidents Cup broadcasts... Golf channel reported the PC was their highest viewed broadcast in their history. But it's not just about the USA. All or part of the matches were available in just under 1 billion households worldwide, 220+ countries/territories in 20+ languages. I have some sources in Australia and I'm trying to get the Australian viewership numbers...

I get that every golf event isn't for everybody... But as I've always maintained... They all mean something to SOMEBODY. That's what really matters.

kwinigolfer wrote:
There's some speculation, apparently, that the owgr's could be frozen as at Monday's date (March 16th) until normal service has been resumed.
Makes sense to me.

IMO freezing the rankings would be a bad idea unless the stoppage is something more than a year. Then maybe....

GPB wrote:and why should i believe you.

Because of your reputation of being a gentleman?

LMAO

And be careful, I have a citation that the viewership peaked at 2.15 Million per minute in the USA alone.

Be very very Careful.

My figure is for the AVERAGE per minute in just the US. That's a tiny amount for something you claim people "care" about.

Mine's bigger than yours....

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:and why should i believe you.

Because of your reputation of being a gentleman?

LMAO

And be careful, I have a citation that the viewership peaked at 2.15 Million per minute in the USA alone.

Be very very Careful.

My figure is for the AVERAGE per minute in just the US. That's a tiny amount for something you claim people "care" about.

And.... you still have not provided a source. Not surprising. Why should I believe you?

BTW, those ratings are comparable to any PGATour event

and psssst....Ratings for any golf telecast are "tiny" when compared to NFL football. Even the precious Ryder Cup.

Nor did you supply yours, but I'm pretty sure it's the same one.

When did I ever mention the NFL or any comparison there of? 1.3 million, or even 2.15 million is a laughable viewership for a country with the population of America.

Who cares about NFL? We're talking about the Presidents Cup, and 1.3 million average is not much. Perhaps it's representative of how little people care about golf, but for reference the final round of last years Masters got 10.8 million according to Reuters, so the Presidents Cup is 10x less popular. Glad we've sorted out how insignificant it is.
ALso found that The Players had 8.1m viewers in 2015, according to the Golf Channel, whilst the US Open averaged 5.1 million for the final round. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:
There's some speculation, apparently, that the owgr's could be frozen as at Monday's date (March 16th) until normal service has been resumed.
Makes sense to me.

IMO freezing the rankings would be a bad idea unless the stoppage is something more than a year. Then maybe....

Robo: Did you see my post as if all the tournaments were suspended until week 36, 2020?

I can (somewhat easily) simulate them for any suspension period.

Here is the Top 50 with their respective averages

Top 50, Week 36. 2020:

Notice the contraction of the averages, the rankings will be highly volatile

super_realist wrote:Nor did you supply yours, but I'm pretty sure it's the same one.

When did I ever mention the NFL or any comparison there of? 1.3 million, or even 2.15 million is a laughable viewership for a country with the population of America.

Who cares about NFL? We're talking about the Presidents Cup, and 1.3 million average is not much. Perhaps it's representative of how little people care about golf, but for reference the final round of last years Masters got 10.8 million according to Reuters, so the Presidents Cup is 10x less popular. Glad we've sorted out how insignificant it is.
ALso found that The Players had 8.1m viewers in 2015, according to the Golf Channel, whilst the US Open averaged 5.1 million for the final round. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Who opined that the Prez Cup was a big as the Masters, or the Open Championship, or the Ryder Cup.

Answer NO ONE and FTR, it is not. But it has its niche in the golf world which you are unable to acknowledge.

Listen I can understand why you don't care. You are in Europe. But you are absolutely wrong that it is insignificant.

If you are talking about USA Rankings, NFL is the gold standard

What precipitated this argument your guffawing over the Presidents Cup and my response

Spoiler:

And BTW, those USA numbers don't include people watching via live streaming or Repeats of the telecast that occurred during normal Golf telecast in the USA. Saturday and Sunday afternoons.

It is by definition a pretty small event. If the US considered it to be significant, why is viewership so lowIf it were significant, surely it would have significant ratings? Not even close to matching The Players, which isn't even a major. Even the Waste Management Open got 3.25 million.

Why bring up live streaming? Don't you think every tournament could say that, and all the ones I mentioned crush The Presidents Cup on ratings, or maybe you think viewing habits change only for the Presidents Cup and people seek a different media for viewing?

Again, why bring up the NFL? Everyone knows that a lot of Yanks watch that, and are under the deluded view that it's the most watched event globally, when it's not even top 10.

Why mention Live Streaming.

You stated the absolute number of 1.3 Million People. Whether that number is correct or not (still no citation from you) it does not include people watching via live streams. Or the people that watched on repeat telecast on Saturday and Sunday on the major network (NBC)

If no one cares about it, why is anyone watching? Its a typical viewing audience for golf.

And the players clearly care about it. Americans traveled half way across the World to play for no direct compensation. EVR and Cam Smith claim that it is big in their countries (but what would they know)

Again, just because you (and many Euros) are ambivalent, doesn't mean everyone is ambivalent.

I can easily make the claim that there are 3+ BILLION Chinese citizens that don't care about the Ryder Cup and the Open Championship. But what would that prove?

Super

Why are you so invested in showing the pres cup isn't a big deal?

USGA reportedly looking at Oakmont as a replacement course for this years US Open because the current host is Winged Foot. In the NYC metro area which is considered a Covid-19 hotspot

Yes Super.... I have a citation.

https://thegolfnewsnet.com/ryan_ballengee/2020/03/19/2020-us-open-could-be-moved-from-winged-foot-to-oakmont-country-club-118673/

McLaren wrote:Super

Why are you so invested in showing the pres cup isn't a big deal?

My guess: jingoism and xenophobia

In a news item (or at least something I hadn't seen before) it seems the Valspar has a later date on the 2021 schedule, in late April.
Not sure how it will work, but presumably: Augusta, Harbour Town, Valspar, New Orleans. But that's a big guess.



Not sure about GPB's reported speculation about the US Open: More likely that it will be postponed, I would've thought, but if the virus takes a typical course, NYS could be out of the woods by then.

kwinigolfer wrote:In a news item (or at least something I hadn't seen before) it seems the Valspar has a later date on the 2021 schedule, in late April.
Not sure how it will work, but presumably: Augusta, Harbour Town, Valspar, New Orleans. But that's a big guess.

Correct. Because of a calendar shift, there will be one less tournament week before the Masters for the next 3 years... So Valspar is getting the last week in April. There is also some moving around of the other Florida events in March... Here is the proposed early 2021 schedule through the PGA...

Thanks robo,

Had seen the Florida changes but they left the fate of Valspar open-ended. Happy to see it survives, and on a pretty good date I would have thought. Think Honda has wished upon itself the short straw. Again.

kwinigolfer wrote:

Thanks robo,

Had seen the Florida changes but they left the fate of Valspar open-ended. Happy to see it survives, and on a pretty good date I would have thought. Think Honda has wished upon itself the short straw. Again.

Valspar has not only survived, but the Title Sponsor did a 5 year renewal a year early back in 2019 and are set through 2025. And they did so knowing about this 3 year calendar situation (and knew it was them who were moving because NOBODY is gonna move Jack & Barbara's Honda out of the Florida swing unless Jack wants it, which he doesn't).  I can't confirm, but it's my understanding Valspar might flip with Heritage for one of those years.

Bottom line is the Tour's sponsorship status is by far the best it's ever been... Every event is set through the 2020-21 season except Barracuda summer of 2021 (the Alt event WGC Memphis). I got not clue if that's a likely renewal or not.

Mayakoba has been year to year for 2 years now. No strong signals they won't continue, but w/o a long term deal, that one's always up in the air. But they are committed for later this fall. After that you have Shriners and Safeway needing a renewal for fall 2021.

McLaren wrote:Super

Why are you so invested in showing the pres cup isn't a big deal?

Because GPB is insistent its an event with huge interest, when demonstrably its not even anywhere near the size of many other golf events. Not even as big as the Waste Management.
Highly ironic that he says my disdain for it is xenophobia and jingoism when that's the basis of virtually every post he makes.