PGA Tour: The Players: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Well done to Tyrrell Hatton, great win at Bay Hill which continued the run of non-American winners - Day, Leishman, McIlroy, Molinari, Hatton.
This was also an Open Championship qualifier and Keith Mitchell (for the second year running), Danny Lee and Dahmen get to battle the traffic at Royal St.George's in July.

2).For the second week running, the course set-up seemed to make scoring unnecessarily tricky given the prevailing weather conditions. A war of attrition, but not necessarily the most attractive golf for the TV viewer to enjoy.
Hopefully the set-up at TPC Sawgrass will enable the world's best to play their shots.

3).Scott Piercy made news for all the wrong reasons last week and now Tour Commish Monahan has expressed disappointment "in the lack of judgment used" and "that it has been addressed with Scott directly". Good thing Monahan didn't say "he knows better" because Piercy clearly doesn't. But his sponsors do, thankfully, tho' any Tour punishment will be kept unpublished - unless he starts missing tournaments, from which we might draw our own conclusions.
Personally, I'd like to have seen his "invitation" to Bay Hill revoked, but no such disapproval reported from the API.

4).Interesting graph from princedrac's twitter account this week showing the top ten owgr points-getters at The Players:
Four Americans: Woods, DLIII, Furyk, Couples
Three Aussies: Elk, Scott, Shark
Nick Price
Sergio & Langer
A good week, of which there haven't been many recently, will see Garcia can jump from 2nd to 1st, ahead of Tiger.

5).That's reflective of an international honours board with eight of the last twelve winners being "overseas" players.
And first-timers at TPC have a tough time too - after Jerry Pate won on the course's debut in 1982, only Hal Sutton and Craig Perks have won trophy on their first trip. Leading "rookie" last year was Eddie Pepperell who stormed home in 3rd place - but he's busy trying to figure out how you get dq'd three times in less than 2 years.

6).This week looks like the exact halfway point of the pre-Play-Off PGA Tour season, the 23rd event out of a total of 46. About 50 pros have already won enough FedEx Points to assure them a tee-time at the Northern Trust, Round 1 of the FedEx Cup Play-Offs.
Not many are Europeans: McIlroy, Hatton, Rahm, Hovland.

7).And only Fleetwood among other Europeans is comfortably placed, for now.
Those who have struggled this season so far, but are exempt at least through next year, include McDowell (79th), Casey (93rd), Lowry (140th), Molinari (168th), Donald (assuming he takes another earnings exemption - 172nd), Garcia (179th), Willett (181st), Stenson (197th), Wallace (202nd), Rose (205th),
While this lot, all not yet exempt for 2020/21 have it all to do: Straka (82nd), Norlander (84th), Knox (90th), Fitzpatrick (100th), Noren (107th), Rafa C-B (120th), Poulter (128th), Cappelen (130th), Laird (158th), Ventura (175th), Power (201st), Bjerregard (224th), Lewis (227th), plus 3 or 4 others on more tenuous status.

8).But one or two American "faces" are also struggling, with these three less than half-way to a Play-Off goal about 400 pts:
110th: Spieth
111th: D.Johnson
213th: Koepka

9).The Florida "Swing" has a musical chairs of dates next year, starting with Bay Hill, then The Players, followed by "Honda". No word yet on how Valspar fits in, but hopefully retains its fourth slot in Florida.

10).Finally, the Top 64 in the owgr's after The Players will qualify for the WGC-MatchPlay in Austin in a fortnight's time.

Any Valspar Notes will be added here next week.

Kwini

I get that you are taking the devil's advocate position but I just don't think there is any defence for Hadwins attitude. People, such as doctors without PPE treating covid patients, have dealt with much greater inconveniences during this situation than having to putt with a pin in. Plus it is not just PC it is basic infection control.

Or, I'm sure the PGA could pay some lackie to simply disinfect the bloody pin after every hole if they are so precious they can't putt with a pin in.
It's not exactly difficult and bearing in mind how long these arse holes take to play they could probably put it through an autoclave.

super_realist wrote:Why don't they have a business carrying their own bags?

Shoulder, back issues, etc...

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:Why don't they have a business carrying their own bags?

Shoulder, back issues, etc...

Didn't you consider they could just use a remote control trolley?

It's a bit pathetic if you can't carry a bag though.

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:Why don't they have a business carrying their own bags?

Shoulder, back issues, etc...

Didn't you consider they could just use a remote control trolley?

It's a bit pathetic if you can't carry a bag though.

I got no clue at this point what they are going to do RE caddies.   My guess is they figure out some way the players can have their regular caddies.  But short of that, I wouldn't have a problem with allowing pull carts or remote trolleys.   

And I guess due to my bad back I'm pretty pathetic myself for about the last 30 years.  Oh I could, and have carried my own from time to time in that period. But when I have there's no way I can do so without stiffening up even more and affecting my game getting even worse. Bad backs aren't something you can be the tough guy and just "rub dirt on it" and soldier on. Not at a high level in golf anyway.

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:Why don't they have a business carrying their own bags?

Shoulder, back issues, etc...

Didn't you consider they could just use a remote control trolley?

It's a bit pathetic if you can't carry a bag though.

I got no clue at this point what they are going to do RE caddies.   My guess is they figure out some way the players can have their regular caddies.  But short of that, I wouldn't have a problem with allowing pull carts or remote trolleys.   

And I guess due to my bad back I'm pretty pathetic myself for about the last 30 years.  Oh I could, and have carried my own from time to time in that period. But when I have there's no way I can do so without stiffening up even more and affecting my getting even worse. Bad backs aren't something you can be the tough guy and just "rub dirt on it" and soldier on. Not at a high level in golf anyway.

What I meant is that if you are a professional golfer, practice as much as they do, then you ought to be able to carry your own bag, not necessarily a tour bag, but they should certainly be physically capable of carrying a bag, even someone with a glass body like Woods.
If he can swing at 120 mph plus, carrying a light bag shouldn't be too much of a hinderence.

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:Why don't they have a business carrying their own bags?

Shoulder, back issues, etc...

Didn't you consider they could just use a remote control trolley?

It's a bit pathetic if you can't carry a bag though.

I got no clue at this point what they are going to do RE caddies.   My guess is they figure out some way the players can have their regular caddies.  But short of that, I wouldn't have a problem with allowing pull carts or remote trolleys.   

And I guess due to my bad back I'm pretty pathetic myself for about the last 30 years.  Oh I could, and have carried my own from time to time in that period. But when I have there's no way I can do so without stiffening up even more and affecting my getting even worse. Bad backs aren't something you can be the tough guy and just "rub dirt on it" and soldier on. Not at a high level in golf anyway.

What I meant is that if you are a professional golfer, practice as much as they do, then you ought to be able to carry your own bag, not necessarily a tour bag, but they should certainly be physically capable of carrying a bag, even someone with a glass body like Woods.
If he can swing at 120 mph plus, carrying a light bag shouldn't be too much of a hinderence.

Clearly a voice of someone who's never had a chronic bad back... Carry on...

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:

McLaren wrote:If Hadwin and Stallings said those things they are utter bell ends. Imagine being so privileged to be claiming you can't adjust to putting with the flag in.

But Mac,

For Pros, with a caddie wearing gloves, why the hell not do what you like with the flag?

Not sure what Stallings' beef is, but Hadwin's game, like many others, is based pretty much around his putting. I don't see why he should be placed at a competitive disadvantage just for political correctness.

 I have ZERO issues with any player who doesn't feel comfortable coming back because of safety concerns... but to not play for $7-10mil purses in a snit against temporary rule concessions in the name of THEIR safety is an AWFUL look.  Alistair Tate said it better than I could.  

Exception I would make to that, would be the caddie thing. There's plenty of players like Tiger, Day, Rose, Cantlay, etc. that have no business carrying their own bags...

Happy to agree to differ, perhaps he could be allowed to do a Tommy Gainey - no, not look for sex in all the wrong places, but wear two gloves to handle the flag? Not like the man from Moose Jaw to be on the wrong side of public opinion.

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:Why don't they have a business carrying their own bags?

Shoulder, back issues, etc...

Didn't you consider they could just use a remote control trolley?

It's a bit pathetic if you can't carry a bag though.

I got no clue at this point what they are going to do RE caddies.   My guess is they figure out some way the players can have their regular caddies.  But short of that, I wouldn't have a problem with allowing pull carts or remote trolleys.   

And I guess due to my bad back I'm pretty pathetic myself for about the last 30 years.  Oh I could, and have carried my own from time to time in that period. But when I have there's no way I can do so without stiffening up even more and affecting my getting even worse. Bad backs aren't something you can be the tough guy and just "rub dirt on it" and soldier on. Not at a high level in golf anyway.

What I meant is that if you are a professional golfer, practice as much as they do, then you ought to be able to carry your own bag, not necessarily a tour bag, but they should certainly be physically capable of carrying a bag, even someone with a glass body like Woods.
If he can swing at 120 mph plus, carrying a light bag shouldn't be too much of a hinderence.

Clearly a voice of someone who's never had a chronic bad back... Carry on...

I'm not talking about amateurs, I'm talking about people we are constantly told are "athletes"
Besides, no one claimed they would have to carry.

As I allowed Super... If they are allowed to use caddies or trolleys then no issue.  

As for the carrying thing with bad backs (at any level)... If someone needs to keep asking the question or not understanding how it could be an issue, then it's pointless to try to explain to get them to understand...

I don't even see why a professional would ever consider carrying if they had to play without a caddy.
I've actually thought for years there should be one tournament a year when they play without caddies.

Kwini... Adam Hadwin it's not the type guy I've ever been able to find fault with either. But IMO he is coming across as "entitled"  with this one.  I think a comment something along these lines would have served him much better....  "putting with the flag in doesn't favor me at all, but we're all having to make adjustments in these times so we'll just do the best we can with it". 

But most of the players "play versus not play"  concerns may have been rendered moot anyway.  With the Tours new policy that nobody's status is at risk, that takes the onus off of any of them to feel like they have to play in conditions they think might be unfavorable to them.  OWGR rankings are still a big deal, but not as big as having playing status secure.

Super... My comments on caddies and carrying are all based on not knowing what the rules are going to be when they come back and play. We don't know if they are going to be allowed to have caddies or not at first. We also don't know what other options will be available to them if caddies aren't. (Carts, trollies, must carry their own bag, or what?)

But on your other thing... I'd probably enjoy a caddie-less tournament as well.  Or maybe one where they have to use some local junior caddie who can't give advice/yardage or something.

I don't think the tour would find it reasonable for any player to be forced to carry, especially as the first thing to be brought up would be back problems.
I actually wonder if a caddy on the tour would be allowed a trolley, and if not, why not? I've seen it on minor tours.

Lets try this again

super_realist wrote:

Can't name too many people with 18 PGA titles and two Majors who haven't been admitted.

Rory has 18 wins, with 4 majors, and he is not in the Hall of Fame, then again, he does not meet the age requirement.

Julius Boros has 18 wins with 3 majors, and he is in the Hall of Fame.

All other players with more than 18 PGATour and 2 majors are in the Hall of Fame.

Do you not realize that John Daly has FIVE (5) PGA Tour wins?

oh, looking at the WIKi bio, it says he was 18 professional wins. HA! Apparently you didn't read the fine print!

Just what is the TELUS SKiNS GAMES?

GPB wrote:Lets try this again

super_realist wrote:

Can't name too many people with 18 PGA titles and two Majors who haven't been admitted.

Rory has 18 wins, with 4 majors, and he is not in the Hall of Fame, then again, he does not meet the age requirement.

Julius Boros has 18 wins with 3 majors, and he is in the Hall of Fame.

All other players with more than 18 PGATour and 2 majors are in the Hall of Fame.

Do you not realize that John Daly has FIVE (5) PGA Tour wins?  

oh, looking at the WIKi bio, it says he was 18 professional wins.  HA!  Apparently you didn't read the fine print!  

Just what is the TELUS SKiNS GAMES?  

Happy to admit that Daly doesn't have 18 PGA wins, rather they are tournament wins. Still, any rational person would think Daly was a big enough figure in the game to get in, wouldn't you?

Still, getting that wrong is nowhere near the error of not understanding what slander and strawman arguments are, but never mind, just hope you don't work in law.

super_realist wrote:I don't think the tour would find it reasonable for any player to be forced to carry, especially as the first thing to be brought up would be back problems.
I actually wonder if a caddy on the tour would be allowed a trolley, and if not, why not? I've seen it on minor tours.

Agree with the first part. 

I'm kind of in between on trolleys on tour. I wouldn't mind players being allowed to use them instead of caddies. but if they are going to use caddies I do think the caddy should have to carry the bag.

robopz wrote:

super_realist wrote:I don't think the tour would find it reasonable for any player to be forced to carry, especially as the first thing to be brought up would be back problems.
I actually wonder if a caddy on the tour would be allowed a trolley, and if not, why not? I've seen it on minor tours.

Agree with the first part. 

I'm kind of in between on trolleys on tour. I wouldn't mind players being allowed to use them instead of caddies. but if they are going to use caddies I do think the caddy should have to carry the bag.

They probably should, however I don't think it necessary they carry tour bags.

I mentioned at least once that Daly only meets the minimum requirements, Just goes to show that you really don't read my posts.

How many "players" in the WGHoF have only 5 wins?

And please don't go with the Hope, Crosby, George Bush etc. argument. I have already pointed out why they are in the HoF. Go back and read my posts (which I already have demonstrated that you don't read)

Ah, so it's only PGA wins that count is it?  Ian Woosnam has only 2 wins using your new criteria. Monty has 0, Jacklin has 4,  Olazabal only has 6, as has Lyle.

There's another one of your reasons for denying Daly a berth blown out of the water.

As for Hope, Bush and Crosby, I didn't find your reasoning compelling.

As I said years ago with the Casey Martin case, I think players should be able to use golf carts or caddies. But not both.

IMO: The mantra of the USGA and R&A that "Walking is a integral part of the Game" is archaic.

Why? Because it is not. Right, Wrong or indifferent, 90+% of Golf played in the USA is played while using motorized golf carts. How can it be an integral part of the game when it is played so much with golf carts.

Heading this off at the pass:

(Yes I realize that 'Muricans are generally fat and lazy and out of shape and they don't represent the world-wide golfing population. Don't be so pedantic. That is not the point of the post)

Why would anyone want to take a cart, unless you are generally incapable of walking the distance?

Walking is integral to the game, you can't play the game without walking.

super_realist wrote:Ah, so it's only PGA wins that count is it?  Ian Woosnam has only 2 wins using your new criteria.  Monty has 0, Jacklin has 4,  Olazabal only has 6, as has Lyle.

There's another one of your reasons for denying Daly a berth blown out of the water.

As for Hope, Bush and Crosby, I didn't find your reasoning compelling.

I generally use the acronym WGHoF.

Do you know what the "W".....stands for?

Just to clear up any misconcetion, "W" = World.  European wins are counted, as are wins on the Asian Tour and Sunshine Tour, and Austrasian and Japan Tour.

Sure Daly has a few "official" wins on other tours, but they certainly do not total 18 official wins.  Skins games win are not official.

And FWIW, I am not the one that said

Super_Realist wrote:Can't name too many people with 18 PGA titles and two Majors who haven't been admitted.

And you don't find my reasons for Hope and Crosby compelling?  Oh Darn!  how will I be able to live myself?

Ha ha, that's pathetic. You implied that Daly's 5 PGA wins were insufficient to permit him entry, without realising that other players in your tinpot honour roll have fewer.

So now that I've pulled out players with similar or fewer wins on the PGA than Daly now you talk about it being global? Well guess what, there are people in there with fewer wins than him globally too.
Keep trying though. I'm sure you'll find a good enough reason to not let him in soon.

You implied that Daly's 5 PGA wins were insufficient to permit him entry, without realising that other players in your tinpot honour roll have fewer.

Never implied that. I certainly didn't say that he had 18 PGATour wins.

I said he barely met the minimum requirements.


Do you really think that I didn't know Monty has ZERO PGATour wins and is a member of the WGHoF?

Jumbo Ozaki has exactly ZERO PGATour wins and is in the WGHoF

Isao Aoki has exactly ONE PGATour win and he is in the WGHoF

When Peter Thomson was inducted, he only had one PGATour win

Of course I knew that Ollie, Woosy etc PGATour resumes are rather sparse.  They didn't play that much on the PGATour, just like Jumbo and Isao.  But they won plenty outside the PgATour.  Its a World Golf Hall of Fame.

super_realist wrote:I actually wonder if a caddy on the tour would be allowed a trolley, and if not, why not? I've seen it on minor tours.

I've seen it on the European Tour, albeit a few years ago at the PGA Championship. Player had his wife/girlfriend/partner pulling a trolley for him.

9 wins on tours for big John, if counting the pga reserve tour I think. With 2 majors, he probably should be in the golf hall of fame. It should look past the drink and just being a bit dodgy. Don't think he has any drug or dv convictions?

But isn't he a bit FAT ? I understand some people have a problem with that.

Saw Daly at the US Open at Pinehurst. Comes out to hit balls, hair still wet and you don't see his face, only the end of a lit cigarette. Then (coolest move ever) the caddie light two cigarettes. One for himself and one for Big John, who never raised his face as his caddie handed him his second nic-a-stick. It's a big tent in professional golf ... many are welcome.

beninho wrote:9 wins on tours for big John,  if counting the pga reserve tour I think. With 2 majors, he probably should be in the golf hall of fame. It should look past the drink and just being a bit dodgy. Don't think he has any drug or dv convictions?

I don't believe it's Daly's lifestyle that will keep him from ever getting in the hall... It's his resume.  2 majors, 3 more PGAT & 1 more ET just doesn't cut it.  The two Sunshine wins and Korea just aren't enough to add any real meat to the resume.

robopz wrote:

beninho wrote:9 wins on tours for big John,  if counting the pga reserve tour I think. With 2 majors, he probably should be in the golf hall of fame. It should look past the drink and just being a bit dodgy. Don't think he has any drug or dv convictions?

I don't believe it's Daly's lifestyle that will keep him from ever getting in the hall... It's his resume.  2 majors, 3 more PGAT & 1 more ET just doesn't cut it.  The two Sunshine wins and Korea just aren't enough to add any real meat to the resume.

IMO, if Daly had a "mainstream" life in golf. he would have a better chance at the WGHoF. I thought it was going to be great for golf when he won the PGA. I got sick of his antics a long time ago, but I do realize that he has been one of the needles in golf.

Then again, the freak shows at the county fair always have long waiting lines.

He has publicly denounced the USGA, and at least a couple Tournaments (or the Tournament Directors). Phoenix and Palm Springs.

A man reaps what he sows. (forgive the Biblical quote)

GPB wrote:

You implied that Daly's 5 PGA wins were insufficient to permit him entry, without realising that other players in your tinpot honour roll have fewer.

Never implied that.  I certainly didn't say that he had 18 PGATour wins.

I said he barely met the minimum requirements.


Do you really think that I didn't know Monty has ZERO PGATour wins and is a member of the WGHoF?

Jumbo Ozaki has exactly ZERO PGATour wins and is in the WGHoF

Isao Aoki has exactly ONE PGATour win and he is in the WGHoF

When Peter Thomson was inducted, he only had one PGATour win

Of course I knew that Ollie, Woosy etc PGATour resumes are rather sparse.  They didn't play that much on the PGATour, just like Jumbo and Isao.  But they won plenty outside the PgATour.  Its a World Golf Hall of Fame.

So why only mention his 5 PGA titles separately from all the rest? Are you trying to back peddle now because there are people in the Hall of Favouritism with fewer PGA wins?
If Daly "barely" meets the criteria then plenty people have less than he does so how do they get in and Daly doesn't?

Seems to me they are rather puritanical and discriminatory simply because they are taking the Shooter McGavin line and think he hasn't been good for golf, which as I said earlier is puerile and short sighted, not to mention inconsistent.

Still waiting for a decent reason for him not getting in whilst others with similar careers or who have similar indiscretions are in.
Whats wrong with criticising the USPGA if you feel they have done something wrong? Plenty have done so, and the WGHOF is not affiliated to the PGA anyway.

It is time for me to get pedantic so I can answer the questionYou keep saying the USPGA or the PGA?

Exactly what are you talking about (because they are different organizations)

the PGATour?
the PGA of America?
the USGA?

Still waiting for a decent reason for him not getting in whilst others with similar careers or who have similar indiscretions are in.

What specific players with similar careers are in?

What specific players with similar indiscretions are in?

like calling out Tournaments and Tournament Directors?
and
suing the PGATour?
and
dozens of WDs under suspicious circumstances?

I believe in the concept of the WHOLE is GREATER than the SUM of the PARTS.

Its not This or this or THIS. Its all of the things. You reap what you sow.

===========

Woosy, Ollie, Monty etc. played primarily on the European Tour. Daly did not.

===========

Again, Daly barely meets the minimum criteria for HoF induction. There are many players that barely meet the minimum criteria that are not in the HoF. Robo listed them earlier. Players like Lee Janzen, and Andy North, Dave Stockton. Players that are not in the HoF. Daly is NOT being singled out because of his extracurricular activities.

Remember this, the HoF is not an entitlement. Just because a player meets the requirements does not mean he gets into the HoF.

GPB wrote:IMO, if Daly had a "mainstream" life in golf. he would have a better chance at the WGHoF.  I thought it was going to be great for golf when he won the PGA.  I got sick of his antics a long time ago, but I do realize that he has been one of the needles in golf.

I don't think there's much Daly could have done "good citizen" wise to get in the HOF with his resume. Better chance? Maybe... but maybe better only to the extent of going from... "When Hell freezes over" to "Nope, not enough of a resume. Ain't happening.".

But we all still know why Daly will never get in the HoF - despite his “fame” - and despite GPB claiming all criteria aren’t “objective”. And that’s what stinks. The criteria are so bloody obvious.

pedro wrote: and despite GPB claiming all criteria aren’t “objective”. And that’s what stinks. The criteria are so bloody obvious.

huh?

BTW, the 39th ranked player in the World is playing in a West Florida mini tour event tomorrow (Monday). And he is paired with a two time PGATour winner, who was once ranked #61 in the world (and one of the few dozen players that led the FEDEX rankings at least one week)

Jazz J, and Daniel Chopra.

Seems there's going to be a skins match at Seminole Golf Club featuring McIlroy, DJ, Fowler and Matt Wolff. 17th May.

Saw a promo with Rory this morning about the exhibition in Seminole.

Its his 31st birthday today, and the "mop-top" is returning due to the quarantine.

I can relate, I haven't had a haircut since mid Feb.

Seminole is, perhaps, the finest golf course in the state of Florida. Worth the view for that alone.

Some really interesting conversation floating around about the financial vibility of the European tour.  Yeah... Not having the deep pockets of the PGA tour they have $$ issues to be sure. But I'm not sure those issues are so big they're on the brink of outright failure or needing a PGA tour takeover to survive...  

Here are two pretty good thought provoking articles from global golf post... Two different writers and they take two different approaches but both come to similar places... More PGAT involvement in the European tour is seemingly inevitable in some form or fashion...

 Lots to chew on here...

https://read.nxtbook.com/global_golf_post/global_golf_post/20200504/eubanks_col.html

https://read.nxtbook.com/global_golf_post/global_golf_post/20200504/green_col.html

Thanks for posting these, robo.

Must admit, I see the sink-or-swim of the European Tour as a referendum on Pelley who I've never warmed to.
And the coronavirus couldn't have taken their breath away at a worse time.

I wonder if the European Tour is best left, as it was in the halcyon days, to grow from the bottom up?
North American sport, with the ironic (given Pelley's background) exception of the NHL, is built from the top down and, while the Rolex series was an exciting initiative, it was immediately (and deliberately?) undermined by changing the Tour calendar to meet the revision to PGA Tour schedules.
Would some of that Rolex money been better off invested in underwriting smaller, intrinsically European events? I thought so then and certainly think so with hindsight.

The best European players will almost always gravitate to the US market, but the US is not everyone's cup of tea whatever the PGA Tour may think with its MAGA exceptionalism biases. Accept that, Pelley (or preferably a European successor like Thomas Bjorn), and rebuild your base in Europe - the characterisation of hopscotching from Kenya to Kuala Lumpur is spot on. Not helped of course by the fact that more natural partners like Australasia and Southern Africa are so devoid of sponsorship.

And: Don't give ET Ryder Cup money to Monahan, he doesn't need it. Europe does and, without viable and competitive ET golf it'll dry up.

Kwini... I don't think the strength of the European Tour (as a tour) has much to do with this future success of the Ryder Cup. It's already almost a "Your Floridians vs our Floridians" as it is.  Its the nationalities that's important. 

JMHO... I don't think any kind of PGAT takeover is a good thing. There needs to be a healthy European tour. BUT, if this PGL thing showed us anything, people are clamoring for more opportunities to see the best together in common events. I happen to think they meet each other enough already as it is, but I think I'm increasingly small minority in that. 

So with that in mind, I do think some co-sanctioning of 4-6 ET/PGAT co-sanctions make sense. Grouped at least 2 at a time in January, between the opens, and fall could work.  The key is to find a way that the ET doesn't lose by having the co-sanctioning, but the PGAT gains. The only way that happens is expanding the importance of the events... Imagine a "Euro swing" of maybe 2-3 co-sanctions between the opens.  Quality of fields would explode. 

And this is just spitballing... Doesn't take into account the PGAT would have to in effect relegate more "home" events to basically alternate status (without alts it would never get member approval)

"Your Floridians vs Our Floridians"!
Don't tell the fans that.
Regardless of residence (temporary or permanent) there is a distinct difference between the two and that's what builds the rivalry.

Interesting ideas, but the bottom line is that the ET, in whatever form, needs to do a far better job of engaging Corporate Europe and marketing their product better, both from a sponsorship standpoint underwriting specific events, but also underwriting media coverage. Finchem was drop-dead (which I often wished he'd've done) brilliant at building that in the US, partly riding the Tiger-effect, but also securing all those long-term contracts.

If your last point materialised, I wonder if that would affect the 125 membership of the All-Exempt Tour?

I'd still like to see Australia & South Africa belly up to the bar . . . . . .

And Fiji of course; did you see that Vijay has incurred the wrath of some minor leaguers by signing up for the first KFT event at Sawgrass?
(Not sure the no-namer (so I won't print it, but rhymes with smell), who described Veej as a "true piece of trash" and a "complete turd" has done himself any favours, but I imagine he'd describe the culprit in a different way if it was, say, Davis Love. Just saying.)

I'm not a big VJ fan... Just never took to him. But that said, this Brady Schnell guy is bang out of line.  Not just what he said but the way he said it.  The rule allowing VJ to play in a KFT event when he's not exempt for that week's PGA tour event, has been an effect for at least a couple of decades. And VJ is hardly the first.

It might seem with all the lost events, VJ's costing some poor KFT guy trying to get his card a spot in the field. But on the other hand, with this wrap around season thing for the KFT... That guy has 14 months and approximately 40 other events to try to get his card.   VJ still thinks he can be competitive on the PGA tour. I don't know if I agree or not, but he certainly has the right to believe that, and he certainly has the right to play a warm-up event on the KFT if he's not exempt into Colonial.

Only comment I have about the alternate that doesn't make this field... Breaking into pro sports damn hard. but there's somebody next in line who doesn't make the field every freaking week. I know it's cliche, and I still always feel a little bit bad for those guys... But "Play better" really is the ultimate harsh truth here. Otherwise, better go polish up his resume.

robopz wrote:I'm not a big VJ fan... Just never took to him. But that said, this Brady Schnell guy is bang out of line.  Not just what he said but the way he said it.  The rule allowing VJ to play in a KFT event when he's not exempt for that week's PGA tour event, has been an effect for at least a couple of decades. And VJ is hardly the first.

It might seem with all the lost events, VJ's costing some poor KFT guy trying to get his card a spot in the field. But on the other hand, with this wrap around season thing for the KFT... That guy has 14 months and approximately 40 other events to try to get his card.   VJ still thinks he can be competitive on the PGA tour. I don't know if I agree or not, but he certainly has the right to believe that, and he certainly has the right to play a warm-up event on the KFT if he's not exempt into Colonial.

Only comment I have about the alternate that doesn't make this field... Breaking into pro sports damn hard. but there's somebody next in line who doesn't make the field every freaking week. I know it's cliche, and I still always feel a little bit bad for those guys... But "Play better" really is the ultimate harsh truth here. Otherwise, better go polish up his resume.

Hopefully rhymes-with-smell will earn himself a one-tournament suspension and that'll take care of the alternate.

I like the way Vijay marches to his own drummer; hasn't Gary Player teed it up in a KFT event?

kwinigolfer wrote:I like the way Vijay marches to his own drummer; hasn't Gary Player teed it up in a KFT event?

Gary Player has played in 4 of them... Jack Nicklaus twice...

What does smell think about that!!!!
Of course, anyone calling Jack a turd would be banned for life . . . . . . .

Maybe it would be OK if Vijay's son Qass got an exemption.

Nicklaus played with three of his boys (Jackie, Gary, and Michael), in 2003 and 2004. Nicklaus, Sr beat all his kids each year. making the cut in 2003. Nearly making the cut in 2004

and I had thought Player played with one of his sons (Wayne?) but didn't see his name on the leaderboard in any of the years he played (2004-2007). Player didn't come close to making the cut in any of the years.

Going back to the early 90's, IIRC, Payne Stewart wanted to play a Nike tour event in his hometown of Springfield, Missouri to support the event. The tour persuaded Stewart to not play the tournament (but I think played the pro-am)

Nicklaus and Player got into the the 2004 pro-am because they were not eligible to play the PGATour event that week. (IMO, that is BS because they are lifetime members). Robo told me (on another forum) that JN and GP maybe DQed because they couldn't keep their stroke avg within 3 strokes of the average. Still BS!

VJ is also a lifetime member, but he is not high enough on the pecking order to play in the invitational.

GPB... For clarity... To retain the playing privileges of lifetime membership on the PGA tour The player has to maintain a stroke average within three shots of the tour average in a given year. So it's not a DQ... Think of it as similar to a winner's exemption that runs out. Except the lifetime membership expiration is based on a performance bar instead a set number of years.

Also for clarity, I didn't mean DQ has being DQed for a rules infraction.

I meant it as being Disqualified because they could not maintain a performance standard.

I know the requirement. But I don't think it should apply to players that are NOT exploiting their "lifetime exemption"

Lets look at Gary Player. As far as I can tell, the only PGATour events that he played after 1985 were majors, the Masters, the British Open every year, and the US Open a couple times after he won the US Senior Open got him an exemption. After 1985, he never used his "Lifetime PGATour Exemption" to get into a PGAT tournament. His stroke avg in those events should not preclude him from using his lifetime exemption for the 2004 Zurich.