PGA Tour: The Players: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Well done to Tyrrell Hatton, great win at Bay Hill which continued the run of non-American winners - Day, Leishman, McIlroy, Molinari, Hatton.
This was also an Open Championship qualifier and Keith Mitchell (for the second year running), Danny Lee and Dahmen get to battle the traffic at Royal St.George's in July.

2).For the second week running, the course set-up seemed to make scoring unnecessarily tricky given the prevailing weather conditions. A war of attrition, but not necessarily the most attractive golf for the TV viewer to enjoy.
Hopefully the set-up at TPC Sawgrass will enable the world's best to play their shots.

3).Scott Piercy made news for all the wrong reasons last week and now Tour Commish Monahan has expressed disappointment "in the lack of judgment used" and "that it has been addressed with Scott directly". Good thing Monahan didn't say "he knows better" because Piercy clearly doesn't. But his sponsors do, thankfully, tho' any Tour punishment will be kept unpublished - unless he starts missing tournaments, from which we might draw our own conclusions.
Personally, I'd like to have seen his "invitation" to Bay Hill revoked, but no such disapproval reported from the API.

4).Interesting graph from princedrac's twitter account this week showing the top ten owgr points-getters at The Players:
Four Americans: Woods, DLIII, Furyk, Couples
Three Aussies: Elk, Scott, Shark
Nick Price
Sergio & Langer
A good week, of which there haven't been many recently, will see Garcia can jump from 2nd to 1st, ahead of Tiger.

5).That's reflective of an international honours board with eight of the last twelve winners being "overseas" players.
And first-timers at TPC have a tough time too - after Jerry Pate won on the course's debut in 1982, only Hal Sutton and Craig Perks have won trophy on their first trip. Leading "rookie" last year was Eddie Pepperell who stormed home in 3rd place - but he's busy trying to figure out how you get dq'd three times in less than 2 years.

6).This week looks like the exact halfway point of the pre-Play-Off PGA Tour season, the 23rd event out of a total of 46. About 50 pros have already won enough FedEx Points to assure them a tee-time at the Northern Trust, Round 1 of the FedEx Cup Play-Offs.
Not many are Europeans: McIlroy, Hatton, Rahm, Hovland.

7).And only Fleetwood among other Europeans is comfortably placed, for now.
Those who have struggled this season so far, but are exempt at least through next year, include McDowell (79th), Casey (93rd), Lowry (140th), Molinari (168th), Donald (assuming he takes another earnings exemption - 172nd), Garcia (179th), Willett (181st), Stenson (197th), Wallace (202nd), Rose (205th),
While this lot, all not yet exempt for 2020/21 have it all to do: Straka (82nd), Norlander (84th), Knox (90th), Fitzpatrick (100th), Noren (107th), Rafa C-B (120th), Poulter (128th), Cappelen (130th), Laird (158th), Ventura (175th), Power (201st), Bjerregard (224th), Lewis (227th), plus 3 or 4 others on more tenuous status.

8).But one or two American "faces" are also struggling, with these three less than half-way to a Play-Off goal about 400 pts:
110th: Spieth
111th: D.Johnson
213th: Koepka

9).The Florida "Swing" has a musical chairs of dates next year, starting with Bay Hill, then The Players, followed by "Honda". No word yet on how Valspar fits in, but hopefully retains its fourth slot in Florida.

10).Finally, the Top 64 in the owgr's after The Players will qualify for the WGC-MatchPlay in Austin in a fortnight's time.

Any Valspar Notes will be added here next week.

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:
The World Atlas site is also American, so where's the bias?

Well that makes all the difference in the world, doesn't it?

It does if you're claiming it as a biased source? Why would an American source gerrymander the data to suit a non American sport? I see that bias isn't something you know the definition of either.

When it claims that there are 2.5 billion cricket fans, I got to question its credibility.

I don't care if the site is American, British, Australian, Chinese or Martian, it is a click bait site.

Is the coverage in GB&I the same NBC/GC broadcast that we're getting in the US?

Enjoying the golf, enjoying Seminole even more.

Yes Kwini. We are currently suffering Trump.

McLaren wrote:Yes Kwini. We are currently suffering Trump.

Sorry to hear that Mac. What an effing idiot.

Don't think there is enough lab capacity in the US to do 10,000,000 tests a day. Can't stop lying.

Enjoying this as well. What a great course. I remember most (but not all the holes). I also remember that when we sat down for lunch there were no menus. Kind of froze up and ordered exactly what my host had (Chicken Salad), but now wishing I asked for Stone Crabs!

Kwin, you must have played Inlet a long time ago ... I only remember it as 18 and I assume the back 9 is the new 9? I like it better than Thendara (which seems like two different courses with the back 9 so narrow).

Shotrock wrote:Enjoying this as well. What a great course. I remember most (but not all the holes). I also remember that when we sat down for lunch there were no menus. Kind of froze up and ordered exactly what my host had (Chicken Salad), but now wishing I asked for Stone Crabs!

Kwin, you must have played Inlet a long time ago ... I only remember it as 18 and I assume the back 9 is the new 9? I like it better than Thendara (which seems like two different courses with the back 9 so narrow).

!!!!It was a long time ago, probably about 1980. The front nine at T is Ross isn't it, not sure who did the "walk through the woods" (Pete Grygiel's description)? I've enjoyed playing both nines though.

These guys aren't going to finish in the prescribed time are they?

DJ hasn't swung a club in two months has he? Very rusty.

These blokes can't make a putt, Shotrock was right!

kwinigolfer wrote:Is the coverage in GB&I the same NBC/GC broadcast that we're getting in the US?

Enjoying the golf, enjoying Seminole even more.

I believe so Kwini, what a course. I believe this is the course Hogan was on when his friend George Coleman shot that famous home video footage.

https://youtu.be/G6TSim2T_oY

McLaren wrote:DJ hasn't swung a club in two months has he? Very rusty.

Surprised he can walk and carry at the same time. He is so dense light bends around him.

Super

Your mum is fat. So shut it.

Not as fat as your "wife"

Supers idea of the ideal dinner date.

Spoiler:

Seems like all USGA championships will be by exemption rather than exemption and qualifying. so no trip to Walton Heath this year for European hopefuls.

I'm never wrong wrote:Seems like all USGA championships will be by exemption rather than exemption and qualifying. so no trip to Walton Heath this year for European hopefuls.

I think that's only fair given all the quarantine regulations; but I imagine that will restrict entries for around the world. Unlikely that many pros will want to do a fortnight of quarantine in the US and another two weeks after the event.

It looks like, for one year anyways, that the US Open needs to be renamed into something like the US Nationals. Because like the Open Championship, it is not very Open this year.

I don't see a scenario where Mickelson does not get exempt for the US Open. Whether he plays or not is a different story.

kwinigolfer wrote:

I'm never wrong wrote:Seems like all USGA championships will be by exemption rather than exemption and qualifying. so no trip to Walton Heath this year for European hopefuls.

I think that's only fair given all the quarantine regulations; but I imagine that will restrict entries for around the world. Unlikely that many pros will want to do a fortnight of quarantine in the US and another two weeks after the event.

Hate to see them have to give up on the qualifying, but on the other side of the coin, I believe this will likely be the best field in the US Open ever...  As for quarantines... By that time I expect the rules to change. There's a lot of talk how they can do that by giving quarantine waivers to those with certified tests immediately before and after entering the US.  That can take two weeks down to one or two days.   The travel issues are more likely to be much greater for the PGA 6 weeks prior to the Open.

Bottom line... I think we are starting to see a shift of thinking towards "how can we get things moving in a relatively safe manner" as opposed to going out of our way to find reasons why we can't do them. We are talking August & September for the majors here. That is a lot of time to figure things out.

Does not paint a good light on women's golf in Great Britain.

http://read.nxtbook.com/global_golf_post/global_golf_post/20200518/mair_col.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Click%20To%20Read&utm_campaign=dm-051820

This quote is from another era but old habits are head to break.

Royal Liverpool Club Secretary wrote:No one has ever entered the clubhouse, and Praise God, no woman ever will.

- Club Secretary at Royal Liverpool

GPB wrote:Does not paint a good light on women's golf in Great Britain.

http://read.nxtbook.com/global_golf_post/global_golf_post/20200518/mair_col.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Click%20To%20Read&utm_campaign=dm-051820

This quote is from another era but old habits are head to break.

Royal Liverpool Club Secretary wrote:No one has ever entered the clubhouse, and Praise God, no woman ever will.

- Club Secretary at Royal Liverpool

It seems that quote was about 75 years old . . . . . . .
On a separate topic, I was amazed to read in Ben Williams' obit yesterday that he was the first African American to play in the Ole Miss football program, in the (Oops, EDIT: 1970's) 1980's.

Let's face it, prejudice is everywhere, and certainly in the corridors of power in Washington and Westminster . . . . . . . probably one reason why both made such a pig's ear of the last four months.

Come on Kwini, blaming UK and US deaths from Covid on prejudice is JAS level tinfoil nuttery.

robopz wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:

I'm never wrong wrote:Seems like all USGA championships will be by exemption rather than exemption and qualifying. so no trip to Walton Heath this year for European hopefuls.

I think that's only fair given all the quarantine regulations; but I imagine that will restrict entries for around the world. Unlikely that many pros will want to do a fortnight of quarantine in the US and another two weeks after the event.

Hate to see them have to give up on the qualifying, but on the other side of the coin, I believe this will likely be the best field in the US Open ever...  As for quarantines... By that time I expect the rules to change. There's a lot of talk how they can do that by giving quarantine waivers to those with certified tests immediately before and after entering the US.  That can take two weeks down to one or two days.   The travel issues are more likely to be much greater for the PGA 6 weeks prior to the Open.

Bottom line... I think we are starting to see a shift of thinking towards "how can we get things moving in a relatively safe manner" as opposed to going out of our way to find reasons why we can't do them. We are talking August & September for the majors here. That is a lot of time to figure things out.

robo,
Agree with most of that but meanwhile the Canadian border remains closed and CT, home of next month's Travelers, is the only State not yet embarking on post-COVID re-opening.
Jury still out on whether some early-opening States were wise to do so, despite FLA & GA fiddling their numbers.

Has the USGA yet determined how they'll determine the exemptions?

Fortunately the PGA Tour has an ace up its sleeve, having procured sufficient hydroxychloroquine to dose each member daily.

super_realist wrote:Come on Kwini, blaming UK and US deaths from Covid on prejudice is JAS level tinfoil nuttery.

Self-evident here, super.
And, based upon everything I've been able to glean from there, either prejudice, incompetence or stupidity, take your pick. Could be all three of course, starting from the top.

I don't think prejudice against anything comes into it at all.
Incompetence yes, stupidity yes, but can't see prejudice being a factor.

Shame  Lewine Mair's article of how UK is failing to attract girls to golf got lost in the ongoing "across the pond" wars.  I would like to get some insight from some of you in the UK on the actual topic and article.

http://read.nxtbook.com/global_golf_post/global_golf_post/20200518/mair_col.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Click%20To%20Read&utm_campaign=dm-051820

FWIW, I did say the quote was from another era.

It was less than 10 years ago that people with two x-chromosomes were allowed to join the R&A.

super_realist wrote:I don't think prejudice against anything comes into it at all.
Incompetence yes, stupidity yes, but can't see prejudice being a factor.

How about giving some benefit of the doubt and suggest age-ism and regionalism . . . . . .

Kwini... Obviously any of the upcoming PGA tournaments or majors actually being played is subject to whatever the Covid situation is then.  All anybody can do is plan as best they can with what they think will be possible at certain dates, then adjust if reality dictates otherwise. The tour has said they think the roughly 25 players outside the US can get here. I don't know what if anything they know that you and I don't. But if the Canadians & Mexicans can't get in to play Colonial for these other first few events, I can't imagine it's going to be all that easy for the Europeans.

As for the USGA... All they have said so far is there going to try to assemble a field similar to what it would have been with qualifying (at least as far as various tour and international participation is concerned).  The field is going from 156 to 144, but I'm guessing they can still accomplish most of that by inviting OWGR top 90-100 and a few more amateurs not already qualified.

robo,
I don't know what the answer is, but certainly when I moved to the States in early/mid 80's, sporting women had next to no cricket (certainly not to today's extent), no women's footie or Rugby.

And obviously there's little or no sponsorship to sustain women's pro golf.

Would think that, if there's little or no national media visibility of women's golf, then it gets to be a bit chicken and egg, right down to acceptance at club level and in junior golf. Not an excuse but possibly part of a reason.

robo,
Hadn't spotted this until today but I see the Champions Tour has cancelled June's events (and a couple more) and linked the 2020 and 2021 seasons, with some modifications. Seems a sensible compromise to me.

GPB wrote:Does not paint a good light on women's golf in Great Britain.

http://read.nxtbook.com/global_golf_post/global_golf_post/20200518/mair_col.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Click%20To%20Read&utm_campaign=dm-051820

This quote is from another era but old habits are head to break.

Royal Liverpool Club Secretary wrote:No one has ever entered the clubhouse, and Praise God, no woman ever will.

- Club Secretary at Royal Liverpool

As supers reaction to the suggestion of prejudice shows getting people to even acknowledge there is a problem in the first place is a huge battle, especially in the predominantly white male golf world.

I have only one female friend in my own age range who plays golf. Although not many of my friends actually play golf. I find that I have the group of friends I met through school, uni, work and other friends and then the group of people I met through playing golf. There isn't a lot of overlap. I guess my point is that not a lot of people in the UK are taking up golf regardless of demographic. Which is not to excuse the lack of diversity in golf membership but highlight how difficult it is to get anyone to take up the game never mind those who have been made to feel unwelcome in the past.

A lot of people are introduced to the game by a parent who plays and I wonder if ingrained sexism in the older generations means it is the male children who are taken to the club without much thought about the daughter?

And as we all know sexist attitudes to female golfers are a constant presence at all golf clubs. The idea that women are a so called inconvenience on the course is not hidden at all.

Mac did you not realise we weren't talking about golf?
We were talking in regards to whether there was a prejudice element to our reaction to coronavirus

Super, yes I realised that but I used your reaction as an example of how in general some people don't like to admit there is prejudice.

McLaren wrote:Super, yes I realised that but I used your reaction as an example of how in general some people don't like to admit there is prejudice.

Depends how you are relating it to Covid.
There's definitely prejudice in golf but the simple truth is that male sport is generally more popular then female sport. Is that prejudice or just a preference?

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
I don't know what the answer is, but certainly when I moved to the States in early/mid 80's, sporting women had next to no cricket (certainly not to today's extent), no women's footie or Rugby.

And obviously there's little or no sponsorship to sustain women's pro golf.

Would think that, if there's little or no national media visibility of women's golf, then it gets to be a bit chicken and egg, right down to acceptance at club level and in junior golf. Not an excuse but possibly part of a reason.

Kwini... from the sounds of the article... the issue in the UK has to do with access and acceptance of girls and later women at the local level. If they don't have it there, I imagine it would be near impossible to ever gain "equality".  I don't know if what this woman is reporting is a "fair" assessment of the situation there or not.

robo,
I was just suggesting that it might be down to numbers, especially in Junior Golf; if there is more demand, barriers will slowly be broken down. Or not, not everywhere anyway.

Career top 10s from 1980 through 1999 2019

Career Top 10s:

According to Robo, Nicklaus has 312 in events deemed to be official today  (PGATour credits him with 286).  PGATour does not count his Top 10's in the Open Championship and the Hope and Crosby tournaments prior to 1970

Jack Nicklaus had 49 Top 10's after turning 40 in 1980.  Stenson and Poulter have 48 Top 10s in their career

GPB,

Surprised about your timelines, 197 x Top Tens in less than four full seasons is pretty nifty, even for Tiger.

Poults and Henrik have done alright worldwide, just saying.

kwinigolfer wrote:GPB,

Surprised about your timelines, 197 x Top Tens in less than four full seasons is pretty nifty, even for Tiger.

Poults and Henrik have done alright worldwide, just saying.

LOL... that's clearly a typo... should be 1980 - 2019

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:
The World Atlas site is also American, so where's the bias?

Well that makes all the difference in the world, doesn't it?

It does if you're claiming it as a biased source? Why would an American source gerrymander the data to suit a non American sport? I see that bias isn't something you know the definition of either.

When it claims that there are 2.5 billion cricket fans, I got to question its credibility.

I don't care if the site is American, British, Australian, Chinese or Martian, it is a click bait site.

So why's it not biased anymore?

Is it clickbait because you don't agree with it, then it must be wrong eh? All hail GPB, the man who knows everything. I suppose they're lying about the number of Basketball fans too?

I can imagine you at home "God darn it Myrtle, there's an English limey up here giving me data I don't agree with, don't he know I'm always right Myrtle? Myrtle, I am always right aren't I? God darn it Myrtle, MYRTLE...…….

Asked and Answered.

Tell me how you think they got to 2.5 Billion cricket fans

Here is a site that Basketball is #2 (to soccer).

http://www.biggestglobalsports.com/

And it is clearly better than world atlas because its website is "Biggest Global Sports"

and if you can't figure it out, I AM JOKING.

Does supers last post make any sense to anyone?

GPB wrote:Asked and Answered.

Tell me how you think they got to 2.5 Billion cricket fans

Here is a site that Basketball is #2  (to soccer).

http://www.biggestglobalsports.com/

And it is clearly better than world atlas because its website is "Biggest Global Sports"

and if you can't figure it out, I AM JOKING.

I don't think you've ever joked in your life GPB

https://www.totalsportek.com/most-popular-sports/

Still no idea what the argument is. But here's another list. Basketball bigger thrn I thought, but it has probably branched out more than most American sports.

I'm a cricket fan, but I suppose you do forget the population of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and the amount throughout the world.

beninho wrote:https://www.totalsportek.com/most-popular-sports/

Still no idea what the argument is. But here's another list. Basketball bigger thrn I thought, but it has probably branched out more than most American sports.

I'm a cricket fan, but I suppose you do forget the population of India, Pakistan,  Bangladesh and the amount throughout the world.

I flippantly stated that Cricket was bigger than NFL, NBA and Baseball combined and GPB got sand in his vagina as usual, took offence and treated it literally as he takes everything.
He then stated that USA fans don't find sports that are low scoring interesting like football so by that rationale, they should love cricket as there aren't many higher scoring sports.

Was that just a wind up or did you think cricket was bigger then all of them?

beninho wrote:Was that just a wind up  or did you think cricket was bigger then all of them?

Depends how you look at it. Usually though I'm just winding the miserable git up and having a go at his precious 'Murica. Cricket is definitely bigger than he thinks it is though and even your citation has it above 2 billion "fans", so even if it is not bigger than all of them, it's not far off, Mr Literal thinks its some sort of conspiracy though.

To be fair, its bigger than I thought. And I'm a fan. I can understand how someone who doesn't know it, may think its tiny.

"flippantly"...Hilarious (or should I say LMAO). You take everything I say so literally and pedantically but criticize me when I do the same for you.

Face it, you just don't like being challenged when you state your opinions as being facts.

Populations (Millions)
1352 India
267 Indonesia
212 Pakistan
161 Bangladesh
1993 Subtotal


so 2 Billion people in these 4 countries (give or take a few million people)

In order to get 2.5 Billion fans (as World Atlas claims), Every person in these 4 countries has to be a fan of cricket. That includes all the women, all the infants and toddlers.

And then get another 500 Million people from around the world as fans. The equivalent of population of the UK times 7. And once again, that is every person in the UK, 7 times!!!

2.5 Billion Cricket fans doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I have no confidence of the credibility of these numbers.

I don't think its big in Indonesia. But there are a lot of south east Asians and descendants spread round the world. Cicket is also big in the Caribbean, England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Sri Lanka.

Its got a huge following.

GPB wrote:"flippantly"...Hilarious  (or should I say LMAO).  You take everything I say so literally and pedantically but criticize me when I do the same for you.  

Face it, you just don't like being challenged when you state your opinions as being facts.

Populations (Millions)
1352 India
267 Indonesia
212 Pakistan
161 Bangladesh
1993 Subtotal


so 2 Billion people in these 4 countries  (give or take a few million people)

In order to get 2.5 Billion fans (as World Atlas claims), Every person in these 4 countries has to be a fan of cricket.  That includes all the women, all the infants and toddlers.  

And then get another 500 Million people from around the world as fans.  The equivalent of population of the UK times 7.  And once again, that is every person in the UK, 7 times!!!

2.5 Billion Cricket fans doesn't make any sense whatsoever.  I have no confidence of the credibility of these numbers.

You know so little about Cricket that you put Indonesia in there, but not surprising given the American grasp of geography isn't well founded.

There's lots of sources that have cricket fans above 2 billion by the way. Is it true? I don't know, but neither do you so I'm more likely to listen to multiple sources than a bitter pensioner from the USA.
I think the figures are based on TV viewing figures.
By the way, Cricket is a religion in India, so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that we'll over half of the country is an avid cricket watcher, add in Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka where its similarly popular and you're getting there.