Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

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mikey_dragon wrote:It’s an unfortunate coincidence I think, but his injury record was exemplary before he linked up with Bath.

His last lengthy injury was a collarbone issue suffered in a Wales training camp. Probably a bit of a mixed bag. It's hard once you start getting injuries to get out of the cycle as often one leads to another, Falatau managed to break the same arm some four or five months apart. Something Billy Vunipola managed as well.

I think Carlos is right. With the financial squeeze clubs are going to look for more value for money and less marquee names. Johnny May certainly found that when he went to discuss his new contract as did Ben Youngs.

Some big news coming out of Welford Road... Tuilagi to Dragons.

mikey_dragon wrote:Some big news coming out of Welford Road... Tuilagi to Dragons.

Greg Bateman to Dragons is more likely. WQ loosehead prop.

Unless you've got at least £500k a season for Manu handy.

If he can play LH then I hope we are seriously considering it. The fact that he's WQ will probably mean no eye-brows are raised and it's not the first time we've brought in a WQ prop forward from England. I can't see him getting many caps for Wales though, if any, but he definitely has a good few years of club rugby left.

Oh he won't get capped but he's a perfectly solid prop who carries well. I'd expect him to head to a region shortly.

Surely it would be another premiership team? He would fit in at Dragons and Blues if they can afford it, but I imagine English teams will be showing an interest first. Ideal if an experienced LH comes in for us with Harris a bit old and Reynolds still very young.

I very much doubt that any premiership teams have a great deal of cash free for new players right now. Bateman may well end up not playing and taking what his current contract guarantees him from the club.

Manu, Veainu and Tufua should all be able to get more than their current contracts by moving on - so in their interests, but Bateman, Reid and Eastmond may struggle.

I wish them all well.

Even if Manu was offered a 25% wage cut he would still have been offered about £325-350k a year by my reckoning. I highly doubt any Prem clubs have that space free in the cap. I think he'll go to France, probably Beziers, for an absolutely huge deal. If Beziers want big name draws to sell the club to new fans then Manu fits the bill.

Veainu will probably be deciding whether to take a big contract in France or a slightly smaller contract in Japan which might allow him to play a bit longer. He's a wonderful player but has had injury issues in recent years. His completely selfless style of play, particularly carrying in heavy traffic if it helps his team likely hasn't helped his body. Many wingers and fullbacks would stand out wide getting cold during Tigers abject back play recently. Telusa would always try to make something happen even if that meant making carries of 9 in the hope his footwork could make something out of nothing running at forwards round the fringes. Often it would create something as well. Brilliant player who I hope can keep playing for a few years yet.

Taufua will have offers from everywhere. Fantastic player, still in his prime.

If Manu does go abroad, it'll be interesting to see if Eddie can somehow wangle it that he's still eligible for England. When fit, he's one of the first names on the team sheet.

Beauden Barrett supposedly heading to Suntory Sungoliath for 780K per season. That will make him unavailable for the All Blacks, but given the financial strains caused by COVID, they’re supposedly okay with it.

Rumours that Sale have offered Manu a rather low value contract in the knowledge that (probably) Leicester would have to make up any shortfall or be in breach of contract. Torn on this - personally if Sale's offer is really low (and I heard they were going to pay Manu 100k, leaving Tigers with a £400k obligation) I would be petty and suggest that we pay out Manu's contract in full, but prohibit him from playing for anyone else.

That rumour is from the Ruck and hence I take it with a small skip of salt. If the Tigers contract doesn't include a clause whereby he cannot play for another club whilst under contract with us then our lawyers need firing and/or suing. The options for Manu I think are a) he doesn't play but sits out the final year of his contract, b) he takes a new deal somewhere else and cancels his Tigers contract or c) he makes up and takes the pay cut.

If he can leave and go earn next to nothing and then sue us for loss of earnings then something has gone very wrong and someone at the top or on the legal team needs to collect a P45 on the back of it. The only issue would be if he tells the clubs he's going to sit out his contract and we leave him stood down because then he could sue us for loss of earnings relating to England appearances and lost sponsorship.

Part of the recent disputes were to do with the club wanting players to sign an agreement saying they wouldn't take legal action to recover lost earnings further down the line, in return for the new deals they were offered which guaranteed them a contract.

Sounds like Manu/Freddie refused to sign hence the current situation. If Tigers were paying out most his contract as an obligation I wonder whether that would fall under the cap....

A real mess. That said I still can't see Manu not going to France.

I thought salaries for players that didn't make appearances for the club were exempt from the salary cap? In which case Manu's wouldn't be included but the problem is the cash rather than cap space.

Leavers for LI announced today. Well players who would likely have been out the door anyway before all this kicked off. Myler, van der Merwe and Porecki (headed back to Oz) leave the holes there.

Scott Steele
Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi - Northampton
Dave Porecki
Franco van der Merwe
Pat Cilliers
Saia Fainga’a
Stephen Myler
Tom Stephenson
Barney Maddison - Ealing
Bryce Campbell
Alivereti Veitokani
Wil Partington (Academy) - Hartpury
Sam Collingridge (Academy)
Jack Belcher (Academy)
Finlay Rossiter (Academy) - He's a loss. Really promising 7. Was in the Eng U20s squad a year young earlier in the season. Then picked up a second serious injury in two years and looks like he's called it a day to go and study medicine.

Still in negotiations with other players re wage cuts, so fearing a few high profile names will also be added and there's the potential for it to get a bit messy.

Pat Cilliers and van der Merwe will probably be at Bulls...

Yeah, not sure.

Cilliers has barely played and was down the pecking order even in the Championship. van der Merwe has been great, but he's 37 now. May be pushing it for Super Rugby on fast pitches.

There's a few old head returning to SA; Kruger, du Plessis, Steyn among others. Seems they want some good old experience among their class young guys coming through.

Fair enough. Of the two, van der Merwe could definitely do a job somewhere. He's in decent shape for his age and never really relied on speed anyway.

Rugby Paper reporting that London Irish are the next team to face trouble getting their top players to agree to reduced terms. But unlike Tigers have no deadline.

They seem to have done better at stopping the agents selling stories to the media. Still rumours up to 10 could be ready to walk though. Tip of the iceberg stuff with a lot of clubs still to agree deals with the squad.

Yeah, LI certainly seem to be one of the clubs most impacted financially by revenue falling off a cliff.

Hopefully a compromise is reached, but at the moment I'm not sure what kind of team we'll be playing in August. At the same time, not too much is leaking, as you say. Despite the reports it's pretty clear from TRP article that Fissler didn't actually know the exact players involved. Expect it will be a lot of the bigger earners though. A few aren't even in the country at the moment, whilst other lads are back in training.

It's Newcastle I feel worst for. It's a really rubbish season to be in the Championship without a game potentially until November.

If all this is true then the ‘Rowlands to Wales’ starts to make more sense. I think we might be a bit lucky in that the WRU are focusing on retaining WQ players, and if needs be they would probably get bailed out by the government.

mikey_dragon wrote:If all this is true then the ‘Rowlands to Wales’ starts to make more sense. I think we might be a bit lucky in that the WRU are focusing on retaining WQ players, and if needs be they would probably get bailed out by the government.

The PRL clubs might have some legal proceedings in mind should the WRU effectively get government funding to poach their players.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If all this is true then the ‘Rowlands to Wales’ starts to make more sense. I think we might be a bit lucky in that the WRU are focusing on retaining WQ players, and if needs be they would probably get bailed out by the government.

The PRL clubs might have some legal proceedings in mind should the WRU effectively get government funding to poach their players.

Don't see how they could go down that route. I was referring to the Welsh Gov by the way, think it was them who bailed the Scarlets out a while back. Might Wasps be looking to trim the herd and see it as a good deal? Launchbury and Gaskell are probably their main focus at lock, rather than someone who could be away with Wales a lot. Or is this irrelevant because Wasps have a suga' daddy?

What an excellent return for British taxpayers!

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If all this is true then the ‘Rowlands to Wales’ starts to make more sense. I think we might be a bit lucky in that the WRU are focusing on retaining WQ players, and if needs be they would probably get bailed out by the government.

The PRL clubs might have some legal proceedings in mind should the WRU effectively get government funding to poach their players.

Don't see how they could go down that route. I was referring to the Welsh Gov by the way, think it was them who bailed the Scarlets out a while back. Might Wasps be looking to trim the herd and see it as a good deal? Launchbury and Gaskell are probably their main focus at lock, rather than someone who could be away with Wales a lot. Or is this irrelevant because Wasps have a suga' daddy?

Wasps have crippling debt so could well be convinced to let Rowlands go. It wouldn't be ideal for then given they've already lost several senior players and signed very few players. I don't think they have more than 3 senior locks as things stand. There's normally some bargains available in the Championship so they might take losing Rowlands now before he leaves next summer if they can sign a couple of Championship locks for the same amount.

I'd imagine the PRL would make a complaint to the competition commission should the Welsh Government effectively fund the regions to the detriment of English clubs. The Welsh Government is funded by Westminster so is still state funding.

True, but I meant the WRU just funding the regions as they normally would, so they can continue with recruitment and retention. Then if needs be get bailed out, get their debts cleared. I don’t think it would be seen as the government aiding the welsh teams to the detriment of English clubs, even though that’s how I made it sound in the first place.

Depends entirely on how big a push they make to bring players in. If they go round throwing cash at Prem clubs to get hold of WQ players and then go under and get bailed out with tax payers money via the WRU expect anger. If the regions pick up one or two WQ players who are released or given the option to leave then I doubt anyone would be fussed if there's bail outs further down the line.

Grobler and Veainu confirmed as Stade

Marcos Kremer and Vasil Kakovin as well. Big signings for Stade. Their season so far has been a train wreck but there's a lot talent in that squad.

Grobler is another to leave Gloucester then. Skivington is going to have his work cut out. Currently 3 locks in their senior squad and that's including Freddie Clarke who favours the back row but is a solid lock.

Telusa Vieanu leaves Leicester Tigers and joins Stade Francais. Grobler is set to join him and swap Gloucester for the French capital. From what stories I've seen Grobler is currently in his farm in the middle of nowhere near the SA/Botswana border. Flights out if SA are a bit tricky currently so he won't be touching down at either club straight away.

Bathite wrote:Grobler and Veainu confirmed as Stade

Bathite have you heard anything about Bath being the next club to have problems with some of their big names. Unsubstantiated rumours elsewhere have named Falatau and Mercer as being amongst those yet to agree terms.

I see Saracens have kept hold of Ralph Adams Hale the young prop. Quite high expectations of his development.

Saracens are going to be giving all their talented kids lots of exposure in the championship, so they're nicely blooded for the following season in the prem...whilst all their key players like Ben Earl etc get a loan season with potential champions Bristol.

And Itoje etc gets a nicely managed season...

Win win all the way for Saracens.

They are making the best of the situation GF. They've lost a few players they'd have wanted to keep and the finances will take another knock whilst in the Championship. The Wray family continue to underwrite the losses but will probably be tightening the purse strings, loans help with that as do Goode and Kruis heading to Japan for a year.

Losing Spencer, Carre, Williams, Skelton, Barritt, Wigglesworth plus the others yet to be announced will take a lot of replacing for when they come back up.

They're a well oiled machine Sam...if the kids show what they're looking for the  they wont beed to replace too many.
Eg Skelton could easily be replaced by Kpoku if he comea through well enough.  

Others the same.  The  they ll have Earl, Mallins etc back next season.  

They'll be strong

No doubt they'll be strong but that's not enough for Sarries surely. They have a culture that expects to be at the top, they'll want to be gunning for silverware on more than one front. The young guns may well be the future of the club but on the big occasions sometimes it's the old heads you need and it's those that Sarries have lost quite a few of, just how many is yet to be confirmed.

Experience certainly matters, but theyll recruit wisely as they always do.

And theyll still be able to field a core of European and prwmiership winners whem they return.

Ps im not a Saracens sipporter as you know..i just think despite the cheating they'll come back as strong.
They'll certainly make the most of the relegation far more than we have.

1.Vunipola 2.George 3.Koch 4.Itoje 5.Kpoku 6.Wray 7.Earl 7.Vunipola
9.Davies 10.Farrell 11.Daly 12.Tompkins 13.Lozowski 14.Maitland 15.Goode

16.Singleton 17.Barrington 18.Ibaunakope 19.Hunter-Hill 20.Reffell 21.Whiteley 22.Vunipola 23.Taylor

If all the loan players return then that will be Sarries potential matchday 23 when they come back up. It's a big if though in my opinion with the salary cap coming down.

Still though there are two solid internationals in Singleton and Taylor on the bench. Alex Lewington has just re-signed as well and wouldn't make that 23, though he'd make most the starting XVs in the Premiership. In fact Rotmi Segun would probably start for several Premiership sides at full strength as well.

The depth is ridiculous for a capped league and sums up pretty well the sanctions they are facing!

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Bathite wrote:Grobler and Veainu confirmed as Stade

Bathite have you heard anything about Bath being the next club to have problems with some of their big names. Unsubstantiated rumours elsewhere have named Falatau and Mercer as being amongst those yet to agree terms.

Haven't heard of any issues at all, which is a little surprising. Especially as there haven't been any renewal announcements since lockdown either. Louw has retired, Burns, Willison, Garvey, Paz and Cook would all have been on a good wedge. You'd think Will Spencer and Schoeman would be similar costs to Garvey and Paz, but Ben Spencer a step up on Cook. I guess Willison, Burns and Louw could easily be £700k between them, although Louw rumoured to be the marquee.

Faletau has pretty much been rumoured to leave since the day he arrived! Nothing surprising there. Would be nice if he could play 2 games in a row at some point, I've heard he's quite decent when fit.

True Carlos that's a very good side. The academy has done a good job bringing through a lot of talent for them. I wonder whether some more departures will be announced though with players like Taylor, Koch and Maitland among those I had assumed would go pre Covid.

Bathite quite right, every slow news day there's another Falatau returning to Wales rumour. It was the Mercer thing that more caught the eye. Is there no more signings expected to be announced at Bath?

Koch and Maitland extended knowing about relegation so as long as Wray is still offering assurances of paying back their deferred wages you'd presume they will stay. Currently all wages above £75k pa is being deferred at Sarries, which means Itoje and Farrell must be taking about a 90% wage cut at present - then again Itoje's wages are somewhat complicated it seems!I'd presume they have some iron clad assurances in writing that the short fall will be repaid given they are back at training ready to finish the postponed season.

I'd presume they will still have to lose players longer term due to the cap coming down. Sanderson commented when the first players signed loan deals that he hoped they would all return but a lot can change in a season. If Tompkins starts being challenged by Johnny Williams for the Wales 12 shirt and Foxy is fit to keep the 13 shirt then Tompkins might suddenly reconsider returning to Sarries for one season.

I think Tompkins is committed to Sarries long-term in his mind, not actually sure what his contract says or whether an extension to the current one was already under-written. Davies probably has 2 seasons of international rugby left so a spot should open up anyway. Be interesting to see what Johnny Williams will do, I just hope Scarlets don't start playing him elsewhere to accommodate their super-average centre Stef Hughes.

On a different note, has anyone seen the pictures of Bristol's new training facilities? Personally that sort of investment is exactly what I hoped the salary cap would drive. Clubs can't (within the rules) invest absurd money in salaries to tempt players so hopefully 'sugar daddies' will invest in facilities and infrastructure to tempt players to a club.

A lot of Pro rugby facilities lag a long way behind other sports so that sort of investment is welcome in my opinion. Some will dislike it being bank rolled by a billionaire but rugby needs investment to survive as such a young sport professionally.

mikey_dragon wrote:I think Tompkins is committed to Sarries long-term in his mind, not actually sure what his contract says or whether an extension to the current one was already under-written. Davies probably has 2 seasons of international rugby left so a spot should open up anyway. Be interesting to see what Johnny Williams will do, I just hope Scarlets don't start playing him elsewhere to accommodate their super-average centre Stef Hughes.

Tompkins is in contract with Sarries until the 2022 summer. So he'll spend a season with Dragons then is contracted to Sarries for one more season. If he extended beyond that then he wouldn't eligible for selection unless 'Gatland's law' goes.

Well like I said, unless there's a 'Francis law' underwritten somewhere in that current Sarries contract.

mikey_dragon wrote:Well like I said, unless there's a 'Francis law' underwritten somewhere in that current Sarries contract.

Don't think there is. It was a surprise all round when he was called up and he didn't sign a new contract before selection ala Holmes.

I’ve just seen Bristol’s new training facility, I think that was mentioned here recently. It looks pretty neat... Where is it based?

Any ideas who the big name being hinted at by Exeter could be?

Tuilagi?