Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

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mikey_dragon wrote:It’s an unfortunate coincidence I think, but his injury record was exemplary before he linked up with Bath.

His last lengthy injury was a collarbone issue suffered in a Wales training camp. Probably a bit of a mixed bag. It's hard once you start getting injuries to get out of the cycle as often one leads to another, Falatau managed to break the same arm some four or five months apart. Something Billy Vunipola managed as well.

I think Carlos is right. With the financial squeeze clubs are going to look for more value for money and less marquee names. Johnny May certainly found that when he went to discuss his new contract as did Ben Youngs.

BamBam wrote:Any ideas who the big name being hinted at by Exeter could be?

I was listening to the interview with Baxter at the end there when he mentioned a signing that will have fans 'licking their lips' I'm pretty sure he specifies it's a young player. Naturally a few sites picking it up haven't mentioned the young part as it allows more speculation...

My guess would be Chiefs have managed to hook another very talented player in their early 20s. Josh Hodge and Will Witty from Falcons. Aaron Hinckley from Gloucester. Corey Baldwin from Scarlets. They've just added Jack Walsh the talented Aussie fly-half who had been in talks with the Tahs. Jonny Hill joined from Gloucester, etc.

Baxter and Hepher have tended to sign lots of talented players in their early 20s who aren't quite kicking on in other set-ups to see if they can progress at Chiefs.

I reckon it will be another signing like Josh Hodge. A former (or current) U20s star. Tigers offy have speculated it might be Manu or Taufua but I'd be very surprised if Chiefs have the cap space, particularly with the cap coming down.

king_carlos wrote:

BamBam wrote:Any ideas who the big name being hinted at by Exeter could be?

I was listening to the interview with Baxter at the end there when he mentioned a signing that will have fans 'licking their lips' I'm pretty sure he specifies it's a young player. Naturally a few sites picking it up haven't mentioned the young part as it allows more speculation...

My guess would be Chiefs have managed to hook another very talented player in their early 20s. Josh Hodge and Will Witty from Falcons. Aaron Hinckley from Gloucester. Corey Baldwin from Scarlets. They've just added Jack Walsh the talented Aussie fly-half who had been in talks with the Tahs. Jonny Hill joined from Gloucester, etc.

Baxter and Hepher have tended to sign lots of talented players in their early 20s who aren't quite kicking on in other set-ups to see if they can progress at Chiefs.

I reckon it will be another signing like Josh Hodge. A former (or current) U20s star. Tigers offy have speculated it might be Manu or Taufua but I'd be very surprised if Chiefs have the cap space, particularly with the cap coming down.

Facundo Cordero, the 21-year old brother of Santiago, joins Chiefs.

Well that must be underwhelming for those who eyes sparked with anticipation. A good signing though given Dollman doesn't have much longer left.

Certainly a player worthy of a punt!

The Baxter quote I saw said "We have another name who we will be announcing in a week or two’s time whose name will have everyone licking their lips.”

Could be Cordero but that quote was only yesterday, so maybe they have someone else up their sleeve

It's typical Chiefs recruitment. The core of their senior squad is excellent with little drop off between first and second choice allowing rotation.

Their academy talent is fantastic with Marcus Street, Jack and Sam Maunder, Joe Simmonds and now the monstrous Rusiate Tuima coming through in the last few years alone.

Then they sign the likes of Hinckley, Witty, Hodge, Walsh and now Cordero. None will cost much but all have lots of potential. Especially if given the chance to shine in a side like Chiefs. Hodge and Hinckley I think could really kick on there.

Jonny Hill (Gloucester) and Tom O'Flaherty (Ospreys) joined from elsewhere in recent years having stalled somewhat but have now kicked on to be very good young players. Olly Woodburn and James Short good examples of that who joined further back to little fanfare but have been very good for Chiefs.

They are also very good at getting guys in their early twenties who can't break into the first XV game time elsewhere. Tom Hendrickson, Stu Townsend, Sean Lonsdale and Pete Laverick good examples there. Might have stalled in other set-ups but are developing into really solid Premiership players.

It's an outstanding set-up that Baxter and latterly Hepher have overseen the building of.

mikey_dragon wrote:Well that must be underwhelming for those who eyes sparked with anticipation. A good signing though given Dollman doesn't have much longer left.

Baxter said a name that would get people licking their lips. The Chiefs fans loved his older brother so would be excited at the acquisition even if it's not a big name. I remember Stuart Hogg saying that after he arrived and didn't have the best start the Chiefs fans were telling him he wasn't as good as Santi Cordero who'd been released to facilitate Hogg joining. He managed to change some minds after that.

BamBam wrote:The Baxter quote I saw said "We have another name who we will be announcing in a week or two’s time whose name will have everyone licking their lips.”

Could be Cordero but that quote was only yesterday, so maybe they have someone else up their sleeve

If you look up the interview yesterday he specifies young player but the sites that quoted him conveniently dropped that part to allow for maximum speculation.

In the Chiefs twitter interviews with Baxter today he's asked who he meant by his "mischievous comments about a player fans will be licking their lips about" and he's says "it's a young man by the name of Cordero".

Fair enough, little bit of mischief from Baxter as well as the media then!

The elder Cordero is a brilliant player, lit up the league when he was here so makes sense they'd be hoping the younger brother can do similar

Not sure I'd say mischief by Baxter but definitely by those who reported half the quote.

A lot the sites and journalists who rely heavily on rugby transfer rumour basically seem to read forums like these and clubs offy's then print them as unsourced fact. Most of it's absolute garbage just trying to feed the idle speculation. Occasionally something is right but largely seems to be a case of if you throw enough **** at the wall some of it will stick.

The laziness of sports journalism and a lot of sports broadcasting in the UK drives me nuts though. There are some good writers and pieces no doubt (Will Hooley did a good piece for the Guardian when the Championship funding cuts were announced for instance) but so much of it is lazy writing often coming from former players who appear to have columns due to nothing but their name.

As for broadcasting the talking heads side of the Beebs 6 Nations coverage is actually painful these day. Guscott, Nicol and Inverdale give the impression they get woken up from cryogenic freezing each February for all the useful and up-to-date insight they give. It's telling that the best rugby analysis the BBC have had for years came from them using abridged Squidge rugby videos in their 6 Nations coverage. Squidge is excellent but at the end of the day he's a bloke with a patreon account who started making videos in his spare time.

I think I distracted myself there...

It does seem that a lot of rugby pundits are selected on name more than they are ability. How Dayglo still has a media career I have no idea. I agree it sometimes painful to listen to.

Tuilagi to Sale according to the Telegraph

Mail reporting Manu to Sale as well. They were the only club I'd have thought had the cap space and the cash. Worcester and Falcons are below the cap too but lacking the funds.

As an England fan I'm very happy that Manu will still be eligible for England. As a Tigers fan I'm not overly upset that his cap space has been freed up to invest elsewhere in the squad.

Matt Garvey signs for Gloucester on loan until the end of the season.

Gloucester really needed locks with Mostert and Grobler leaving so that's a strong signing in the circumstance.

Mostert is a massive loss but Slater and Garvey are a solid Premiership lock pairing. Alex Craig and Freddie Clarke have been good for them too. Clarke has been a slower developer but I've been really impressed with him this season.

I thought the problem with Freddie Clark is that he wants to play in the backrow? Rumours Cam Jordan might be heading towards Gloucester.

Manu to Sale seems a bit unnecessary personally but there you go. They've got a good starting pairing in Van Rensburg and James Snr with Hill and James Jnr as back ups. In the small squad Sale like to operate with that's pretty much ideal. Be interesting to see which of Van Rensburg or Sam James misses out for Manu.

Francis has supposedly signed an extension with Exeter, making him ineligible for Wales. Bad news for us as this means Dillon Lewis is in the team.

Good news for Chiefs but a tad surprised Tomas Francis has re-signed. Harry Williams is usually their starter at full strength and Marcus Street is a very talented TH.

It gives Chiefs great depth in the front row though with Moon/Hepburn/Keast at LH and Cowan-Dickie/Yeandle at hooker.

Had the season not been postponed would Francis have been able to reach the Wales cap limit before re-signing?

Francis is only 28 as well. Potentially another world cup in him yet and there's a Lion's tour next summer. The pack strength in depth for Chiefs is pretty intimidating.

It’s possible as he only needed 13 caps - that’s what, one season? He was injured so out most of the season anyway. Maybe they can get him on a loan deal to a Region and then he reaches the 60 cap mark. I think he’s very important going forward as we forget about Lewis and Lee, and bring on Brown and John.

Perhaps a loan could work. Or maybe Francis knows something about Gatland's law changing.

He's been at Exeter a long time and has always seemed very settled there so not a surprise he wants to stay at Chiefs. Perhaps more of a surprise that Exeter have outbid the regions/WRU when they have two other strong EQP tightheads. I wonder if being ruled out of international selection by re-signing might have improved his negotiating position for a new contract at Exeter. He's had injuries this season as you say and would usually miss a lot of rugby for international windows.

Francis has been very committed to Exeter for a while. I'm sure the WRU have offered him good contracts at every opportunity to try and get him over to Wales. Chiefs have him the big break out of the Championship and I don't think he is likely to forget that plus there's every chance of silverware at Exeter. Chief's do have three good tightheads but Street is only 21 (despite looking about 30) so there's still quite a bit for him to learn. 

Williams hasn't really kicked on as we'd all hoped either. He's a big bloke but isn't really dominating around the park as much as he should. He's only 28 as well so could still polish his game up and come back into the England fold, I can't help but feel Will Stuart is just keeping the 18 shirt warm until one of Painter, Street or Heyes take it off him.

Logo Mulipola to Gloucester also.

Another underperforming high earner off our books.....just need to get Jon Welsh off them now and maybe we can actually sign some real props!

There's some Argentinians available at the moment as well GF. Sort yourselves out in time and grab a bargain. 

In all seriousness with no rugby at Falcons until November there's likely to be more heading out and less heading in.

formerly known as Sam wrote:There's some Argentinians available at the moment as well GF. Sort yourselves out in time and grab a bargain. 

In all seriousness with no rugby at Falcons until November there's likely to be more heading out and less heading in.

We've let Lucas Norgeura Paz go. Came with a big rep after playing for Arg, but never really got going for us and didn't make the RWC squad. Have no idea if he's any good, but Arg props don't normally let you down!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Logo Mulipola to Gloucester also.

Another underperforming high earner off our books.....just need to get Jon Welsh off them now and maybe we can actually sign some real props!

Has Welsh ever really performed for Newcastle Geordie?

Rokoduguni to Breziers doing the rounds. I could understand Roko going to France at this stage. 32-years old and out of England reckoning. I rate McConnochie but still feel he was the wrong Bath winger to make the RWC squad. I've always rated Roko highly though. I'd love him at Tiges to fill the hole from losing Veainu.

He's one of a few players who Bath were struggling to get renegotiated contracts over the line with. Faletau being another.

Zach Mercer was also rumoured to be holding out on re-signing but rumours were a few teammates popped round his flat for drinks the evening before the deadline which changed his mind. Seems there's still some amateurism left in the game...

EST wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Logo Mulipola to Gloucester also.

Another underperforming high earner off our books.....just need to get Jon Welsh off them now and maybe we can actually sign some real props!

Has Welsh ever really performed for Newcastle Geordie?  

Actually yes he has. He was a very good player for us, when fit. But he's been out for about 2 years now. He surely must be released.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

EST wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Logo Mulipola to Gloucester also.

Another underperforming high earner off our books.....just need to get Jon Welsh off them now and maybe we can actually sign some real props!

Has Welsh ever really performed for Newcastle Geordie?  

Actually yes he has. He was a very good player for us, when fit. But he's been out for about 2 years now. He surely must be released.

Hadn't realised his injury record was that bad. I always thought he was at his best at LH for Glasgow, then he switched to TH and not sure if he was ever as effective.

Some links with us to Argentinian Centre Matias Orlando...

Just had a shoulder rebuild...oh wonderful! Another to bring in so we can rehabilitate him.

Erm no thanks. He's no better than giving young Ben Stevenson, or Wakecoke a continued run in the side.

EST wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

EST wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Logo Mulipola to Gloucester also.

Another underperforming high earner off our books.....just need to get Jon Welsh off them now and maybe we can actually sign some real props!

Has Welsh ever really performed for Newcastle Geordie?  

Actually yes he has. He was a very good player for us, when fit. But he's been out for about 2 years now. He surely must be released.

Hadn't realised his injury record was that bad.  I always thought he was at his best at LH for Glasgow, then he switched to TH and not sure if he was ever as effective.

He didnt always play TH for us, he played alot at LH. Dean seems to have given up on props who play only TH or LH...he just buys props who can play both sides. Possibly due to finances.

Manu to Sale confirmed. A deal through until the end of 2020/21 season so keeps him in England contention until the Lions tour but not through to the next RWC.

I hope Manu got a good price for his final season of English rugby. International games and the Lions tour will be a good send off before he heads to Japan or France for a big pay day.

Owen Williams has given an interview explaining why he's gone to Japan. Apparently Covid meant that contract negotiations kept being pushed back but he had talked with Pivac and they had picked out the right region for him. No contract in writing at an uncertain time caused concerns and then the opportunity to go to Japan turned up with financial security and an opportunity to try something he always wanted to.

So if Manu wont be part of the World Cup...will EJ even consider him for England duty?

So he'll be a free agent when Saracens return to the top flight..

BamBam a conspiracy theory, like it. Depends how much Sarries will have had to pay out on contract renewals now they have to play by the rules. He wouldn't be the best use of funds but if Sarries want a big game player then they'd be getting one.

GF, I'd imagine so. Next summer is the ideal time to test replacements whilst the Lions guys are away. Ollie Lawrence and Marchant are both excellent young players either one could step up the job. Lawrence is a ready made replacement for Manu. In the meantime Eddie will want good results and to settle his pack as he's losing Kruis and has already moved on from Cole. So far their replacements Ewels and Stuart aren't really showing up that well. He may well need to find another 8 and then there's the issue of selecting Saracens players who will be playing in the Championship. Keeping Manu in for another 12 months makes things easier and keeps the continuity.

Not sure if it's been mentioned but I hope we're seriously looking at Hoskins Sotutu from the Blues (English mother). Get on the phone Eddie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYNQ9lT6dDU

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Not sure if it's been mentioned but I hope we're seriously looking at Hoskins Sotutu from the Blues (English mother). Get on the phone Eddie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYNQ9lT6dDU

Too late hes just signed a new two year deal.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Not sure if it's been mentioned but I hope we're seriously looking at Hoskins Sotutu from the Blues (English mother). Get on the phone Eddie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYNQ9lT6dDU

Youve got to be kidding Sgt.....

Johnny Williams confirmed to Scarlets.

Another whose Nan day tripped to Wales I suppose

BamBam wrote:Another whose Nan day tripped to Wales I suppose

Johnn Bleddyn Williams - sounds pretty Welsh to me!

He was also Scottish qualified, could have gone three ways, which should be no surprise in this small island.

England are as happy to pick up any players who are qualified to play for them as anyone else is. EJ had no issues or shame in sounding out the Fijian Kiwi Sototu recently and would have taken him in a flash.

As long as we are all playing by the same rules!

BigGee wrote:

BamBam wrote:Another whose Nan day tripped to Wales I suppose

Johnn Bleddyn Williams - sounds pretty Welsh to me!

He was also Scottish qualified, could have gone three ways, which should be no surprise in this small island.

England are as happy to pick up any players who are qualified to play for them as anyone else is. EJ had no issues or shame in sounding out the Fijian Kiwi Sototu recently and would have taken him in a flash.

As long as we are all playing by the same rules!

I think there's just a few raised eyebrows about some of the players heading for Welsh international duty as there tends to be fairly recent pictures of them playing in England shirts. Williams played against the Baabaas for England if I remember rightly. Tompkins and Williams both played England under 20s as did Moriarty though his return to Wales was no shock.

In other new Glaws add Matias Alemmano to their squad for next season which should please the fans quite a bit more than Garvey and Mulipola did. He's got some big shoes to fill replacing Mostert but a Slater and Alemmano partnership should work nicely.

Taufau agrees amended terms with Tigers.

Good lord that's great news. There's been a lot of dud signings and a lot more guff rugby at Welford Road recently but I genuinely think Taufua is one of the best flankers in the  Premiership. He's got the ability to have the kind of impact that Craig Newby previously did at Tigers.

Not sure why Scarlets are bringing up Williams and Kalamafoni on their page, both are old news now. Good signings though.

Just to add to that, Sam Moore will probably be capped in a year or 2 if he's any good.

With Francis, I think there's a chance he may push for an exception given COVID ruined the season. It's not a bad shout. If he's first choice then that could give him enough time to get the 13 caps.

Yeah I see your point BigGee, plenty of others seem not to recognise that everyone plays by the same rules!

It's nice for players not good enough for England to have another shot at international rugby

Alemmano is a good signing for Gloucester

From what I have seen of Williams, he could have been a pretty good shout as an international prospect for England, Wales or Scotland.

Unfortunately for him, injuries, some poor club choices and then cancer seem to have gotten in the way of his ambitions.

You can't really blame him for taking the path that he feels gives him his best options now. I am not sure it was ever about him being not good enough (and I do realise that was said tongue in cheek), from his perspectives and with a lot of others who seem to change allegiance, it is surely about opportunity.

England produce an awful lot of rugby players, some of whom don't get the opportunities they deserve, for various reasons, but also because of the numbers game. Players that are dual qualified are perfectly entitled to hedge their bets, you are never tied until you are capped.

England benefit from this system as well, plenty of their players could have chosen other countries as well and not necessarily because they were not good enough for them. In some cases England have an advantage on a purely financial level, due to the international match fees they can offer and the need for some players looking for contracts, not to make themselves non EQ.

Professional rugby players, like every else in life, have to make the best decisions for themselves and I am sure he will be equally proud if he was to get capped for Wales as he might have been had he been so for England.

In all honesty though, I think he should have chosen Scotland  

Yeah fair play to him coming back from cancer, legend. If I remember rightly Ospreys were circling around Johnny Williams a few years back. I think he was keeping his options open by staying in england, and they did come calling (for baa-baa’s). So he wouldn’t have been far off. I wonder if something else enticed him our way, his dad maybe?

Looking at the highlights reel williams is a very good attacking player. He looks as if he does a bit of everything very well. I’m not actually sure how much of it is from the championship mind, but playing like that inside Foxy should make a formidable centre combo. That is something which could work in his favour if it is Wales caps that he desires. Whilst Tompkins is good I’m not entirely sold on him yet due to his defence.

king_carlos wrote:Rokoduguni to Breziers doing the rounds. I could understand Roko going to France at this stage. 32-years old and out of England reckoning. I rate McConnochie but still feel he was the wrong Bath winger to make the RWC squad. I've always rated Roko highly though. I'd love him at Tiges to fill the hole from losing Veainu.

He's one of a few players who Bath were struggling to get renegotiated contracts over the line with. Faletau being another.

Zach Mercer was also rumoured to be holding out on re-signing but rumours were a few teammates popped round his flat for drinks the evening before the deadline which changed his mind. Seems there's still some amateurism left in the game... :laugh:

Looks like the Bezier takeover bid has stalled. So their plan to bring a few players over (Biggar, Lawes, Faletau, Roko were mentioned) won't happen. In fact, could be even worse, as they look pretty insolvent and could go under.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/beziers-prod2-its-five-months-of-discussions-and-dreams-which-have-also-come-to-an-end/

mikey_dragon wrote:Yeah fair play to him coming back from cancer, legend. If I remember rightly Ospreys were circling around Johnny Williams a few years back. I think he was keeping his options open by staying in england, and they did come calling (for baa-baa’s). So he wouldn’t have been far off. I wonder if something else enticed him our way, his dad maybe?

Looking at the highlights reel williams is a very good attacking player. He looks as if he does a bit of everything very well. I’m not actually sure how much of it is from the championship mind, but playing like that inside Foxy should make a formidable centre combo. That is something which could work in his favour if it is Wales caps that he desires. Whilst Tompkins is good I’m not entirely sold on him yet due to his defence.

Williams style is similar to Parkes so it's a little like for like. He runs some hard lines so should be a good foil for JD2. England really need to start capping players who play Vs the Baabaas as there's been a couple in recent years who we've lost out on but who have played Vs the Baabaas. Williams is still a young man there was plenty of time for him to get England recognition. Now seemingly plenty of time for him to get Welsh recognition. Given the Dragons are now trying to get Jamie Roberts in for next season it seem Tompkins will playing 13 as opposed to 12 where he's been mainly playing for Sarries, that should help his defence as Sarries have a pretty unique defensive structure and defending 13 is the hardest position on the pitch especially in a blitz.

Bathite the Beziers thing sounds like a real mess doesn't it. Lots of intermediary people making promises and trying to do deals on behalf of people who haven't signed off on the offers. ProD2 seems to be in an arms race at the minute, I wouldn't be surprised to see some struggle financially in future seasons. Rouen have signed James Johnstone and Carl Fearns, Perpignan Jeronimo de la Fuente (Jaguares captain), Vannes have signed Abendanon etc

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Williams style is similar to Parkes so it's a little like for like. He runs some hard lines so should be a good foil for JD2. England really need to start capping players who play Vs the Baabaas as there's been a couple in recent years who we've lost out on but who have played Vs the Baabaas. Williams is still a young man there was plenty of time for him to get England recognition. Now seemingly plenty of time for him to get Welsh recognition.

I disagree with capping matches against the Barbarians. If we are looking to tie people in, I feel we should either properly re-instate the Saxons or make much better use of the "development" tours.

While the likes of Tomkins, Williams, Haley & Addison have all worn the white of England, none of them were in genuine consideration for some time before their departures. Good luck to them.