The summer of cricket 2020

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Stokes gone at last...and Roach gets one at last ! Bit fluky , reverse leg side edge but I think Kemar was entitled to dome good fortune...

Hell of an innings from Stokes

The 14 man squad being the same as last week's XI plus Anderson, Wood and Archer.

I'd say of those Wood is the least likely to be brought back, and Curran the most likely to drop out for Anderson. Leaves the last spot as a choice between Woakes and Archer, which I think comes down to conditions.

I'm hoping that only one spinner in the squad means it won't be a pitch likely to turn early in the match. Over the course of the previous test the strip for this test coming up went from being very green to looking like it was drying out quickly. With how England have played Chase and Cornwall likely to come in for the Windies that would be playing into their hands.

Of course for the superstitious , leaving out Sam Curran would be a dreadful idea. He has played just eight Tests in England ...and they have won them all

But I suspect he is the most likely casualty.

I've seen lots of suggestions that the weather forecast is poor, but it doesn't look THAT bad to me - cloudy but dry tomorrow, with sunshine and showers Saturday (one of those days where you might get a lot of play or hardly any depending how long the showers last). Sunday is sunshine with light showers, while Monday and Tuesday look mostly dry at least during playing hours.

Looks like about 4 days of playable weather (maybe a little less) which looks to be about the time needed for these matches.

Saturday looks a write-off, weather wise. Monday's in the balance - could be a wash-out, could pass through with little damage (BBC going with the former, Met Office the latter). Tuesday could be wet in the morning, should be clear afterwards. Friday and Sunday should be dry but with plenty of heavy cloud.

Lucky the test didn't start today as it's been hammering down in Manchester again!

Whichever side wins the toss tomorrow should bowl first and give themselves every chance. England should go with Anderson/Broad/Woakes to make the most of the conditions. Hopefully England's greatest Stokes will be alright to play.

If Stokes can't bowl theres a big gamble to be made between picking the 4 bowlers who are mostly likely to take 20 wickets and the 4 least likely to get injured or tired mid game.  
The option of dropping a batsman (Pope?) is there bit given how much the batting, stokes and sibley aside has struggled I can't see that.
Noises are that England will just gamble on their best bowlers and take at least one of Archer and Andrea on, possibly both. Question then is which of Anderson Archer Broad Woakes gets left out.
But disappointed to see Bess over Leach, he is always going to struggle to take wickets against this side. Rotating him out doesnt have to be a damnation but chucking him under the bus to repeatedly bang his head against a brick wall could do more long term damage to his confidence that good. Might help if they can get Tuffers in to have a word, he's constantly on about specific things that would increase Bess' threat. He has the skills but doesn't always use them in the right way.

Root mentioned Stokes has a quad niggle, so I reckon they might be going with the four seamer attack and Stokes playing as a specialist bat...with Bess maybe dropped, especially with as Duty says the forecast so grim across the test too

Not really an obvious bat to drop or I'd suggest picking Curran to balance both departments out if Stokes can't bowl

Reading Cricinfo . ..they seem certain Archer will play so I hope his head is straight after a turbulent week or so.

Butcher is leaving out Anderson ? Would they ? He hardly mentions Jimmy as a possible , which seems strange. I do find some of his comments odd anyway: He describes Curran as one who breaks the odd partnership etc , but then says you have to prefer Archer as one who takes five and six wickets and wins you Test Matches. The issue I take with that is that despite Archer's undoubted ability he has so far played 8 Tests of which England have won just 2 and lost 4...Curran has played 18 for 13 wins ... Not to say the choice would be wrong ; but it should be based on reality rather than assumptions.

Actually I'm starting to suspect they will go with four fast bowlers and no spinner. Will want to win the toss and bowl , eh? Hope it works...

To be honest, looking at the forecast, I think playing a specialist spinner might be a poor move. Pretty clearly going to be a significantly shortened game, lots of cloud and moisture about throughout the game...is Bess really going to get a chance to bowl many overs, or effect the game as much as playing Woakes would? I'd be doubtful.

I doubt the West Indies will bring in Cornwall either.

I think the weather will win. Was hoping the forecast would improve, but it looks as though there will be too much rain and enough heavy cloud throughout the five days to bring bad light into the equation.

Would be a shame to be denied a conclusion to this excellent series; though we have already been spoiled by the two previous tests.

GSC wrote:Not really an obvious bat to drop or I'd suggest picking Curran to balance both departments out if Stokes can't bowl

If Stokes is batting you dont need to balance the batting, you pick the best bowler and the 4 has to include someone to provide the aggression.


Such a shame if it is rained out but also perhaps fair on the west indies who put everything into winning that first test and just dont have the squad for 3 back to backs.

Probably shouldn't assume a draw too early after the last match : after England batted arguably too long (nearly all of two days ) and a full day washout , we still saw a result.
May take one team having a batting collapse or two ...but that's hardly impossible with these sides !
With the series level , will West Indies be content with a draw and retention of the trophy ? I'd suggest their apparent early decision to play for a draw last time actually contributed to their defeat as it allowed England to attack without risk.
Pretty sure England will be looking to go for the throat...

alfie wrote:Reading Cricinfo . ..they seem certain Archer will play so I hope his head is straight after a turbulent week or so.

Butcher is leaving out Anderson ? Would they ? He hardly mentions Jimmy as a possible , which seems strange. I do find some of his comments odd anyway: He describes Curran as one who breaks the odd partnership etc , but then says you have to prefer Archer as one who takes five and six wickets and wins you Test Matches. The issue I take with that is that despite Archer's undoubted ability he has so far played 8 Tests of which England have won just 2 and lost 4...Curran has played 18 for 13 wins ... Not to say the choice would be wrong ; but it should be based on reality rather than assumptions.

Actually I'm starting to suspect they will go with four fast bowlers and no spinner.  Will want to win the toss and bowl , eh? Hope it works...

Hi Alfie - I've found before that Butcher talks what sounds a good game but when you look closer it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Not as knowledgeable on the current county scene as other pundits such as the much maligned Knight or my favourite Key.

If that isn't sufficiently clear and to avoid all doubt, I don't like Butcher. He stood for Surrey's General Committee (a grass roots body feeding into the Club's management), got in because of his name and then never turned up for a single meeting.

As regards this Test and all in all, I'm glad that Bess has been retained (albeit he still needs to make the eleven). He hasn't excelled in this series but he's chipped in usefully at times. Furthermore, he ended the last Test on a high with the final match winning wicket and shortly before that dismissed Holder with a peach of a delivery. Let's hope that's upped his confidence and he goes on from there. Whilst I wouldn't be so daft as to pick him for his batting, that part of the game doesn't put him at a disadvantage. Aided by two 30 not outs (KP-f thought the first would be a significant factor in us winning the first Test!), he's averaging 65 in this series behind only Stokes.

As usual, I'm also keen to have a spinner for variety and to hold up an end so give the seamers a breather at times. Nothing against Leach and I note the left hander / right hander batter comments but he's suffered poor health over several months and played little cricket (even less than the others).

Bess would therefore be in my team today. I'm less influenced by weather forecasts than many of you guys - that may be because it's again warm and sunny down here!

Assuming Stokes is fit to play but not to bowl, the three I would have on drinks duty would be Archer, Wood and Pope. This allows Anderson to be recalled and Curran to just squeeze Pope out so as to give us a fourth seam bowling option whilst also aiding the batting. Very much doubt that's what will happen (I suspect Archer will be back) but it's what I would do.

All the indications are that England are going all-seam, missing out Bess. Cornwall and Gabriel (!) seem to be playing for the West Indies.

alfie wrote:Probably shouldn't assume a draw too early after the last match : after England batted arguably too long (nearly all of two days ) and a full day washout , we still saw a result.
May take one team having a batting collapse or two ...but that's hardly impossible with these sides !
With the series level , will West Indies be content with a draw and retention of the trophy ? I'd suggest their apparent early decision to play for a draw last time actually contributed to their defeat as it allowed England to attack without risk.
Pretty sure England will be looking to go for the throat...

Yeah, strongly agree with that. You shouldn't set out to play for a draw on days one or two of a 5 day Test. Very unlikely you'll survive for so long on the back foot.

The West Indies seemed so different in the second Test from the first. Vastly different levels of aggression, discipline, professionalism, generally being switched on. Reasons may be understandable but I suspect it'll be difficult for the visitors to switch back to first Test mode.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If Stokes isn't fit to bowl, and can only play as a bat...who drops out from the batting? Crawley?

That would cement Woakes's place in the side (albeit his batting in tests has fallen off a cliff the past 12-18 months)...probably could go;

Burns
Sibley
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Bess
Archer
Broad
Anderson

If Stokes can't bowl.

Absolutely nailed it

West Indies win the toss and bowl first...unsurprisingly. Cornwall in for Joseph is the only change for them. Surprised that Gabriel is retained after his dismal performance in the last test.

England have taken out Crawley and Curran for Jofra and Anderson.

Holder wins toss and chooses to bowl.

Very surprised Shannon Gabriel plays. He seemed out of gas only a few days ago.

Holder wins the toss and puts England in.

Windies leave out Joseph and pick Cornwall. They hopefully won't be bowling last having picked the spinner though.

1.Burns
2.Sibley
3.Root (c)
4.Stokes
5.Pope
6.Buttler (wk)
7.Woakes
8.Bess
9.Archer
10.Broad
11.Anderson

Attacking side from England. Presumably Stokes won't be bowling.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If Stokes isn't fit to bowl, and can only play as a bat...who drops out from the batting? Crawley?

That would cement Woakes's place in the side (albeit his batting in tests has fallen off a cliff the past 12-18 months)...probably could go;

Burns
Sibley
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Bess
Archer
Broad
Anderson

If Stokes can't bowl.

Absolutely nailed it

Good call, Olly. Looks horrific to me though - Buttler in at 4 down, Woakes in at 5 down (averages fewer than 15 in his last 9 tests). Could be carnage.

Good intent from England, really didnt think theyd drop a bat.

king_carlos wrote:Holder wins the toss and puts England in.

Windies leave out Joseph and pick Cornwall. They hopefully won't be bowling last having picked the spinner though.

Well they are but first up they'll be relying on 3 seamers who were too tired to bowl a week ago and bowled more than they wouldve wanted to in that test.

They'll be lucky to get 10 solid overs from Gabriel.

Its a fragile England batting line up but also one that can still cash in if the top 3 are there after lunch.

May well only get about 3 days worth of play over the 5 ...the way the teams are lined up it might be enough for a result anyway

They must be really confident that Gabriel is fully fit to be bowling first with only three seamers in the side. A little perplexing to pick two spinners then give up the advantage of bowling last, is it not?

Holding very critical of Holder's choice not to bat first:-

''At Old Trafford every day is going to be overcast so I think it would have been better off going in, batting first, getting some runs on the board. There's no point delaying the inevitable. West Indies are a little bit weak in the batting department but you can't delay the inevitable. Go out there, show the opposition that you are not afraid to bat and get some runs on the board. That's the positive way of looking at it. I think what they are doing is a negative way of going about it. Perhaps they are thinking, ok, we'll just try and draw this Test match. I believe in trying to win every game that you play.''

Ties in with Alfie's comments and mine earlier that the Windies were too keen on the draw from the off in the second Test.

Also, I would have thought that Cornwall would be more effective bowling in the fourth innings.

Wow . England taking a bit of a punt with a very short batting list . If a couple of early wickets go down this could easily be all out for under 100 - can't expect Stokes to do it every time !

But if they can muster a decent score the bowling has plenty of punch. Attacking approach !

West Indies will be hoping Gabriel is in better fettle than last week. They'll probably be happy to have won the toss at least...

Well the England lineup looks like something from the 90s! Let's hope more responsibility brings some form out of Pope, Buttler and Woakes

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If Stokes isn't fit to bowl, and can only play as a bat...who drops out from the batting? Crawley?

That would cement Woakes's place in the side (albeit his batting in tests has fallen off a cliff the past 12-18 months)...probably could go;

Burns
Sibley
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Bess
Archer
Broad
Anderson

If Stokes can't bowl.

Absolutely nailed it

Well done, Olly! I hope I get some marks for showing my workings - right approach (4 seamers, a spinner and a batsman dropping out), wrong individuals!

guildfordbat wrote:Holding very critical of Holder's choice not to bat first:-

''At Old Trafford every day is going to be overcast so I think it would have been better off going in, batting first, getting some runs on the board. There's no point delaying the inevitable. West Indies are a little bit weak in the batting department but you can't delay the inevitable. Go out there, show the opposition that you are not afraid to bat and get some runs on the board. That's the positive way of looking at it. I think what they are doing is a negative way of going about it. Perhaps they are thinking, ok, we'll just try and draw this Test match. I believe in trying to win every game that you play.''

Ties in with Alfie's comments and mine earlier that the Windies were too keen on the draw from the off in the second Test.

Also, I would have thought that Cornwall would be more effective bowling in the fourth innings.

Yes it does seem a bit counterintuitive to pick two spinners and bowl first. Must think Gabriel and co are good to go... but as goose says , if England get a decent start they might cash in.

With all the weather about you'd hope they'd go a bit quicker than last week though...

If England bat through today, I think the draw becomes a nailed-on certainty. If they get bowled out for 150-odd - and I'm not ruling anything out with this batting line-up, the conditions, and the West Indies picking two spinners - it's game on.

1/1. Sibley trapped in front by Roach.

Now what can Gabriel do from the other end?

Pull a Justin Langer and declare on the first morning to take advantage of the good bowling conditions...

Well so much for Sibey being boring

Good job we dropped a batsman!

JDizzle wrote:Good job we dropped a batsman!

Cant rely on the west indies to keep dropping them for us



Roots 50th innings at 3 apparently, more than Id thought. His record isnt too bad but nothing on 4/5. Interesting with Stokes if he comes in early too, but ultimately these are England best players and the ones who step up when things are tough. Really good chance for Burns to underline his credentials as a genuine test opener too. Just get through the morning!

Good start for West Indies ! Sibley mixing his scores a bit dramatically

Not easy for the batsmen early on here...

Much more accurate from Roach and Gabriel this time...though just as I say that one gets slung down the leg side for four byes.

Now time for Holder who finds some movement straight away.

I wonder how much play will be in this match. Forecast not looking great for next 3 days but uncertainty around it. I've settled on about 300 overs to be possible, which seems a bit light to force a result but you never know with these batting lineups

Before it all happens I guess I should say what I think of the selection (much easier to do so in hindsight , but to be fair...)

If Stokes won't bowl , they had to pick Archer (or Wood , I suppose). So either drop a bat or the spinner ...and they've taken the aggressive approach. Can't complain there.

BUT : the batting is fragile. Not much you could do with that , though Crawley might feel a little hard done by after his good knock in the first match , with Pope preferred to him despite no runs in the series. Suppose the one other option was Curran instead of Woakes : better recent batting form , left arm option , knack of getting wickets out of the blue...but as Woakes would have been in my top three seamers
I'd be loath to leave him out...

So : I'm happy - if a bit anxious - with the XI.

Gabriels hurt himself already ...no shock

alfie wrote:Before it all happens I guess I should say what I think of the selection (much easier to do so in hindsight , but to be fair...)

If Stokes won't bowl , they had to pick Archer (or Wood , I suppose). So either drop a bat or the spinner ...and they've taken the aggressive approach. Can't complain there.  

BUT : the batting is fragile. Not much you could do with that , though Crawley might feel a little hard done by after his good knock in the first match , with Pope preferred to him despite no runs in the series. Suppose the one other option was Curran instead of Woakes : better recent batting form ,  left arm option , knack of getting wickets out of the blue...but as Woakes would have been in my top three seamers
I'd be loath to leave him out...

So : I'm happy - if a bit anxious - with the XI.

Dont think anyone disagrees with that. The Gabriel issue shows why they couldnt go with just 3 seamers, especially if Anderson and Archer were amongst them.

England have often been accused of being overconservative, cant say that here. The only thing they couldve done more to attack would be Leach over Bess. I dont think the batting was even considered in that decision.

Gabriel erratic - again. And off the field early.

Not what West Indies wanted to see...

Who would've thought the guy who could barely move four days ago, has pulled up limp today?

Gabriel's done for. Silly selection from the West Indies - now they're paying for it. Chase/Cornwall may have to get through more overs than a fielding side would like in these conditions.

Think 300 overs could be an upper estimate and we'd be fortunate to get that many. Only way I see a result happening is if it's a 190 all out plays 160 all out type test.

Don't think Leach was really in their thoughts , goose. Hasn't really played for a while ; and was pretty rubbish in the warm up practice match.
Suppose his habit of playing vital innings might have earned him a spot but they might be happier with the more technically solid batting of Bess anyway.

Duty281 wrote:Gabriel's done for. Silly selection from the West Indies - now they're paying for it. Chase/Cornwall may have to get through more overs than a fielding side would like in these conditions.

Think 300 overs could be an upper estimate and we'd be fortunate to get that many. Only way I see a result happening is if it's a 190 all out plays 160 all out type test.

So ideally we want England to be bowled out shortly after tea , and grab , say , four wickets this evening ? Not impossible...

Yeah 300 overs was kind of the ceiling. Thinking full 90 today, Tuesday makes up some time so 100 overs or so, then another 100 over the weekend, but could actually end up with nothing from Saturday to Monday in the worst case

On Gabriel, why he was playing is a mystery

Would quite like to see England be proactive against the spinners today - force the field out, or Holder to bring back the already tired/injured quicks

Can't be letting Chase bowl 15 overs at 2 runs an over again

Gabriel poised to come back on the field...but you'd have to be a bit concerned about his fitness. Seems bizarre they would go with just three seamers in these conditions if there was a major doubt on one of them ?

England will probably he happy to get through that first hour for just one down...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Would quite like to see England be proactive against the spinners today - force the field out, or Holder to bring back the already tired/injured quicks

Can't be letting Chase bowl 15 overs at 2 runs an over again

Agreed. Not much point in going bowler heavy if you aren't going to score fast and get the opposition in early as practically possible .