Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[Soul Requiem]

First topic message reminder :

The far left is often dependent on where an individual themselves is on the political spectrum, for example Owen Jones may be seen as far left to someone who is centre right but to a centrist will be seen as merely left wing, personally have him down as part of the hard left.

I have him as left wing. Though is hard left not the same as far left because I dont have him as far left. I get tge views based on your own spectrum though. Which is why I hare labour supporters calling Starmer and others right wing.  Left of centre is not right wing.

I would say that hard left is within the standard left wing myself, thinking of someone like Tony Benn being hard left as opposed to Ed Milliband who was soft left, will say however that is possibly closer to far left than it is the centre.

[super_realist]

I just can't see how it is remotely feasible Ben. It was only yesterday you were moaning about people supposedly being referred to places hundreds of miles away, now they expect to be able to scale from 250,000 tests a day to 10 million and would mean this was equivalent to every person in the UK being tested once a week. That's in increase of 40 times to the current testing level. Hilarious.
There's no chance they could do this unless some really quick method of test including an instant turnaround can be devised.
More government nonsense that will no doubt see yet another U turn.

I personally can't wait to go back to the office. Other countries have, we should be too.

[Soul Requiem]

The plan is dependent on a 20 minute test being developed which would make it feasible albeit unrealistic.

[super_realist]

Seems totally pie in the sky.

[JAS]

“we must have equality” bandwagon.

If the left isn't about equality, what is it about?

I don't think it is about equality per se, I always took it for granted that being left of centre is about striving for a fairer society with a fairer redistribution of power wealth and opportunity. BUT...to be successful in evolving that, it has to come from being a meritocracy. More equality can evolve from that struggle but I think its a mistake to make equality the primary goal and try and force it on people which is what a lot of modern day lefties do...and they're really not helping.

The primary goal of the Labour party when it was set up was to fight for decent wages and working conditions for ordinary working people, to advance health, education and prosperity of ordinary people and the eradication of poverty. That's the primary purpose of Left of centre politics. Once lefties start straying into flights of fancy and take hardline stances on equality, then they're failing to serve their primary purpose. That's when ordinary working people begin to feel ignored, betrayed, angry. Throw in a wee bit of immigration wind ups from the right and hey presto, fascism sparks into life.

[super_realist]

You were doing well until the sensationalist last sentence.
I'm sure you do it on purpose.

[JAS]

More government nonsense that will no doubt see yet another U turn.

Government ministers talking pish....AGAIN who would have thought it eh? But...we get what we deserve, people voted for these people knowing full well their track record so complaints of incompetence and deceit are a) hypocritical and b) with an 80 seat majority, rather futile. We've got another 4 years of this.

[super_realist]

More government nonsense that will no doubt see yet another U turn.

Government ministers talking pish....AGAIN who would have thought it eh? But...we get what we deserve, people voted for these people knowing full well their track record so complaints of incompetence and deceit are a) hypocritical and b) with an 80 seat majority, rather futile. We've got another 4 years of this.

We don't get what we deserve, we get what is available and I think it's pretty clear that neither of the leading parties in the UK are any good and never really have been.  
I know you mentioned it yesterday as a trope, but I don't even think the most ardent of lefties genuinely believed that Corbyn, Flabbot and McDonnel would make a good job of such a situation either.
We are where we are and once we get through it to a stage where any government is no longer trying to frighten us and unions aren't pretending they are too concerned to work constantly then we can address what direction we move in politically, thankfully it won't be down the Corbyn route and probably won't be down a Johnson led route either.

[JAS]

You were doing well until the sensationalist last sentence.
I'm sure you do it on purpose.

Of course I do :-p

Is it really that sensationalist though? You go to as many former Labour constituencies as you like and you'll find many a hardworking, low paid individual frothing at the mouth at dinghies coming across the channel. It's sad, its ironic, it's non-sensical but it's true. Many former Labour voters have become hard line anti immigration Brexiteers. Why else do you think the red wall crumbled so spectacularly? Yes Corbyn turned out to be rather bereft of leadership and was easily outflanked on these issues but you can't solely blame Corbyn, if you do does that mean Starmer wins them all back next time round? No of course he won't.

Johnson and the Tories are treading a very fine line, they know fine well taking a right of centre stance and portraying themselves as tough on immigration helps them electorally. But of course if they overplay that Rule Britannia hand then yes Fascists smell encouragement, of course they do. That would be bad enough on its own but throw in the whole Northern Irish/Irish border issue into the Brexit bull in the china shop and that could unravel a lot more serious repercussions

[super_realist]

It's sensationalist to suggest we are anywhere near being a fascist country. It seems you aren't quite getting what fascism is.
If you did you wouldn't be likening it to views about illegal immigration and its really ridiculous to suggest that someone who is against illegal immigration is fascist. That's the type of language from the left I was talking about yesterday. If you don't agree with certain elements of the left then you get called things like "fat racists" like that Labour MP tweeted last week.

Corbyn shoulders the blame for taking Labour away from its heartland, having no position on Brexit, refusing to address anti semitism in the party and allowing Momentum to dictate. Will Starmer address this in time for the next election ? I don't know but he has at least moved away from that lunatic route the party was going down.
Probably it won't be enough to overturn 80 seats though as that has never happened.

[McLaren]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

[super_realist]

I don't think anyone is against equality Mac. It seems to be a trope from the left to bash the right.
I hope you're not talking about the BLM Political arm that you support. They're far too far left for anyone with a brain surely?

[McLaren]

Super

Have no fear, if you say you support BLM no one will assume the worst.

[Soul Requiem]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

No wonder we haven't had a left wing government in over 40 years.

[super_realist]

Super

Have no fear, if you say you support BLM no one will assume the worst.

Mac, I'm fine with the slogan Black Lives Matter but not the Marxist organisation of the same name.

[McLaren]

Super

Have no fear, if you say you support BLM no one will assume the worst.

Mac, I'm fine with the slogan Black Lives Matter but not the Marxist organisation of the same name.

Honestly, who are you going to meet that thinks you mean the organisation and not the movement? If you have people in your life that immediately question what you mean by BLM, I suggest you see them a lot less often.

Just chill out and know that no one you meet will think the worst if you say you support BLM.

[JAS]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

No wonder we haven't had a left wing government in over 40 years.

You beat me to it Soul, Mac has just illustrated perfectly the fact that the modern day left has lost its way by not focussing on what REALLY matters and yes that's EXACTLY why we haven't had a lefty in charge for decades

[superflyweight]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

Is "untermensch" an approptiate word to be using?

[navyblueshorts]

Garrick Club faces legal battle over 'gentleman-only policy'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54062903


Quite funny that she is having a pop at a place like that.

Who would want to join a male only club?

I assume she is just making a point and partly taking the pish out of them. I would certainly take some joy if she manages to blow a hole in their sad little club.

I honestly couldn’t give 2 flying f’s whether she’s successful or not, smacks of self promoting attention seeking. If she wins is she really going to frequent the place on a semi regular basis? If not why bother?....other than for the reason already mentioned.

Very true Jas. Why did she have to publisicse it? Too many people just do stuff these days for the sake of social media and their own exposure.

It's a private club, isn't it? Does it receive any public funding? Charitable status? No? Then she can do one I reckon.

[superflyweight]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

No wonder we haven't had a left wing government in over 40 years.

You beat me to it Soul, Mac has just illustrated perfectly the fact that the modern day left has lost its way by not focussing on what REALLY matters and yes that's EXACTLY why we haven't had a lefty in charge for decades

It reeks of student politics and looking for Labour to be a party of protest rather than a party of government.

[navyblueshorts]

Seems totally pie in the sky.

But worth shooting for? Probably, although all the dullards will crow like blue blazes when it isn't quite done as claimed. Worth it for the technology when the next pandemic arrives.

[McLaren]

Is "untermensch" an approptiate word to be using?

No, it was a nod to Super's previous use of it. Sorry if that was not clear to newcomers.

[super_realist]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

Is "untermensch" an approptiate word to be using?

Pipe down, its just a word and hardly offensive. We all know we have an element of scum in this country. What would you prefer they were called? Economically challenged?

[JAS]

It's sensationalist to suggest we are anywhere near being a fascist country. It seems you aren't quite getting what fascism is.
If you did you wouldn't be likening it to views about illegal immigration and its really ridiculous to suggest that someone who is against illegal immigration is fascist. That's the type of language from the left I was talking about yesterday. If you don't agree with certain elements of the left then you get called things like "fat racists" like that Labour MP tweeted last week.

Corbyn shoulders the blame for taking Labour away from its heartland, having no position on Brexit, refusing to address anti semitism in the party and allowing Momentum to dictate. Will Starmer address this in time for the next election ? I don't know but he has at least moved away from that lunatic route the party was going down.
Probably it won't be enough to overturn 80 seats though as that has never happened.

1. I didn't say we were a fascist country
2. I never drew a distinction between immigration & illegal immigration either, not sure why you felt the need to other than to enhance your other misplaced assertion that I think EVERYONE against illegal immigration is fascist, that's quite clearly NOT what I said
3. It wasn't that they had no position on Brexit, it was that they had several and Corbyn being the kind of (inept) leader he was refused to commit to one particular position. I'd say he had a better grasp of the Brexit issues than Johnson. What he didn't realise is that people were weary and didn't have the capacity to understand all the complexities and nuances of the Brexit debate. They just wanted a binary decision with conviction. For all his faults Johnson actually understood that part.
4. I STILL say the vast majority of the persistent anti Semitism accusations were more an anti-Corbyn/Blairite mutiny than they were real. They were basically used as a tool by the right of the party to undermine Corbyn's leadership. The right wing press bandwagon jumped it with glee. I'll refer again to Johnson's visit to Plymouth early in the campaign to praise Nancy Astor (a blatant anti semite in her day) nothing mentioned. Had Corbyn made that same visit he's still be being pilloried for it now.

[McLaren]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

No wonder we haven't had a left wing government in over 40 years.

You beat me to it Soul, Mac has just illustrated perfectly the fact that the modern day left has lost its way by not focussing on what REALLY matters and yes that's EXACTLY why we haven't had a lefty in charge for decades

Seems like a good deal for the poor to me. I will vote for a party that helps them if they will vote for a party that promotes equality.

[superflyweight]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

Is "untermensch" an approptiate word to be using?

Pipe down, its just a word and hardly offensive. We all know we have an element of scum in this country. What would you prefer they were called? Economically challenged?

Why do you need to label them at all?  It is just a word and I'm not offended, just questioning the appropriateness of it given that it is a word with horrible historic associations.  

Saying that, it's clearly intended to be used to demonstrate your razor sharp wit and all round superiority so if it makes you feel better then don't let me stop you using it again in the future.

[super_realist]

It's just a word for goodness sake. How boring would it be if everyone wrote in the same boring phrases and only allowed them to use words which have had to undergo censorship?
Grow a pair.

[superflyweight]

So you don't tihnk there are words that shouldn't be used to label certain groups of people?

[super_realist]

It's not a word which is illegal or impoper to use so don't be so pathetic to go down that line and try to conflate it to be the same as words like the N and P words.
It's just a label and it hasn't actually been used to refer to any group as I've not even defined to which group I am using it.

Have you got nothing better to do than go on a synthetic outrage crusade?

Do you even speak German?

[superflyweight]

It's not a word which is illegal or impoper to use so don't be so pathetic to go down that line.
It's just a label and it hasn't actually been used to refer to any group as I've not even defined to which group I am using it.

Have you got nothing better to do than go on a synthetic outrage crusade?

Do you even speak German?

A bit rich coming from someone whose default setting seems to be 'Outraged Victorian Lady'.

[McLaren]

Super, just admit that you enjoy the picant of using a slightly risque (or "forbidden") word?

[super_realist]

When am I ever outraged?
Opinionated, but not outraged.

[super_realist]

Super, just admit that you enjoy the picant of using a slightly risque (or "forbidden") word?

It's neither risqué nor is it forbidden or should I say verboten?

Picant isn't even a word Mac.

[McLaren]

Super you are a handsome guy, you can get away with using these words.


Picture from Supers facebook profile.

Spoiler:

[JuliusHMarx]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

Is "untermensch" an approptiate word to be using?

Pipe down, its just a word and hardly offensive. We all know we have an element of scum in this country. What would you prefer they were called? Economically challenged?

The elite.

[Soul Requiem]

Jas

Your idea about the left seems about 50 years out of date. We have moved on a bit from just worrying about men down tit pit getting a good wage.

Maybe you and other older labour voters can't cope with the modern left being about LGBTQ rights,equality for women, BLM etc, but the Greens who I affiliate with can.

If the "untermensch" don't like equality, fine by me. They can vote tory and screw themselves over just like the idiot poor who vote republican in the USA.

#liberaleliteandproud

Is "untermensch" an approptiate word to be using?

Pipe down, its just a word and hardly offensive. We all know we have an element of scum in this country. What would you prefer they were called? Economically challenged?

Probably for the best not to use a word synonymous with the KKK and the Nazis.

[super_realist]

Why, what happens?

[superflyweight]

Makes you look like a d1ck.

[super_realist]

Makes you look like a d1ck.  

Yeah, because we all decide on what someone is like on the basis of one word don't we?

[JuliusHMarx]

Makes you look like a d1ck.  

Yeah, because we all decide on what someone is like on the basis of one word don't we?

No, I usually go from the overall tone of the majority of their posts.

[McLaren]

Makes you look like a d1ck.  

Yeah, because we all decide on what someone is like on the basis of one word don't we?

There are a number of words that I would use to decide if someone was a d!ck. N word for example.

[super_realist]

Makes you look like a d1ck.  

Yeah, because we all decide on what someone is like on the basis of one word don't we?

No, I usually go from the overall tone of the majority of their posts.

I prefer to judge them on whether they are so feeble they are faux fended by the use of one word.

[McLaren]

You really need to lay off the Douglas Murray and Jordan Petterson stuff. It is warping your mind.

[Soul Requiem]

Makes you look like a d1ck.  

Yeah, because we all decide on what someone is like on the basis of one word don't we?

No, I usually go from the overall tone of the majority of their posts.

I prefer to judge them on whether they are so feeble they are  faux fended by the use of one word.

There's a difference between being offended by the use of a word which I don't think anyone is and being critical of its use, the two are not exclusive.

[super_realist]

You really need to lay off the Douglas Murray and Jordan Petterson stuff. It is warping your mind.

I've never heard Jordan Peterson and I've probably heard no more Douglas Murray than you have.
The difference is that I'm happy to accept that you can disagree with someone on some things and agree with them on another Mac. You've said plenty times you can't do that. If you disagree with someone on one thing, that's it as far as you are concerned, you don't like anything about them. That's the lefty intolerance we have been talking about.

[McLaren]

Super

As always you miss the details of the point, there are some things which make a person a right off but those are fairly specific.

[beninho]

Don't we all already accept that realist likes to use certain words in a way to make him look like the crazy one, who doesn't care. The use of holocaust on a regular basis is just that.

Its just a show.

[McLaren]

It is a pretty sad show. Wonder if he uses terms like "holocaust" or "untermensch" around his nieces?

[JuliusHMarx]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54099894

I doubt the complaints have come from the intolerant left.

[McLaren]

Super

Have you seen the extinction rebellion pr woman has seen the light and defected to the daily mail?

[beninho]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54099894

I doubt the complaints have come from the intolerant left.

Weirdos being outraged after being told to.

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