The Wales squad - Scotland, Autumn Nations Cup, and beyond

First topic message reminder :

Wayne Pivac will announce the squad on October 6th, likely to be a Scarlet-heavy selection and rightly so. I would also like to see new players come in so we can see what they have to offer. 

Wales might play France on October 24th in warm-up, but there is currently some doubt on whether this will go ahead. Next up is the re-arranged 6N match with Scotland on October 31st. In the autumn nations cup Wales will face-off against Ireland, England, Georgia and either France, Fiji, Italy or Scotland. 

Venues to be announced.

Must have missed it. What happened? Never heard of him.

take a look at the guy next to Lomax during the National anthems.

It's hard to know what to make of the match. NZ were always in control but it was a case of murphys law for Wales and I'm not talking about Frank.

As I said before, despite being 6N champions we’re 9th in the world for a reason! Japan one behind us. So maybe right to expect that sort of result?

Might even be 10th in the world now!

The Oracle wrote:As I said before, despite being 6N champions we’re 9th in the world for a reason! Japan one behind us. So maybe right to expect that sort of result?

Might even be 10th in the world now!

Even without the PRL tying our hands behind our back and a host of injuries to top players we still would be lucky to be to be within twenty points of the all blacks.

maestegmafia wrote:

The Oracle wrote:As I said before, despite being 6N champions we’re 9th in the world for a reason! Japan one behind us. So maybe right to expect that sort of result?

Might even be 10th in the world now!

Even without the PRL tying our hands behind our back and a host of injuries to top players we still would be lucky to be to be within twenty points of the all blacks.

Blame the PRL? You’re really making no sense at all, Maes. You’re going to have to explain that one. Spell it out in full for us all. And please go beyond ‘they stopped Biggar and Louis Rees Zammit’ playing. Because a) they didn’t stop us and b) I’m not sure they would have made us win.

The Oracle wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

The Oracle wrote:As I said before, despite being 6N champions we’re 9th in the world for a reason! Japan one behind us. So maybe right to expect that sort of result?

Might even be 10th in the world now!

Even without the PRL tying our hands behind our back and a host of injuries to top players we still would be lucky to be to be within twenty points of the all blacks.

Blame the PRL? You’re really making no sense at all, Maes. You’re going to have to explain that one. Spell it out in full for us all. And please go beyond ‘they stopped Biggar and Louis Rees Zammit’ playing. Because a) they didn’t stop us and b) I’m not sure they would have made us win.

Of course he’s making no sense. That’s why he only jumps on, when he thinks it’s peak time and they can push what agenda they want.

Well done ABs, thanks to the two kiwi boys for the intercepts… cheques on the post. . That field position at sixty meters out from the goal line continues to be the perfect attacking position and if you can’t exploit that space either at the gain line or in behind it you’re gonna be struggling. The options at the line, just in behind, the wide chips, grubbers through all on the menu and it’s just a matter of ordering the dish of the day if you’ve done you prep. Contact becomes the necessity, space the luxury. ABs dined out on making the ball do the work all day. Missed the guy at the beginning but no harm done I guess. He’ll have his critics, overall harmless today. Tomorrow… who knows.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Out of curiosity who is this Jarvo F*%k wit?

Absolute imbecile who invaded the pitch 3 games in a row during England's test series with India. The first time he came on as players were returning to the pitch, wearing an India kit and just pretending to be an Indian player. It was fairly harmless and actually quite amusing. The second time he ran on as a batsman, delayed the game and annoyed everyone. The third time he came on as a bowler and barged into Jonny Bairstow (England player who is a brick s***house that played rugby to a good standard), who did well not to refrain from decking him.

Now this nonsense. He's an attention seeking muppet that has well and truly outstayed his welcome.

Thank you King Carlos, I had not heard anything of this about this guy before, your reply is one of the most astonishing things I have ever read on this forum. (And Ive read some pretty astonishing posts).

The problem with these sort of people is that unless the authorities come down hard on them, then next thing you know Terrorists will think its OK to get in on the act as well, and people will die.

I am old enough to remember when an intruder got on to a tennis court and stabbed Monica Seles.

Just hope the Welsh Security guys gave him a good slap...or two.

Yes....its the lack of ban for streakers and the such which will lead terrorists to believe its ok to kill people.

Yeah in this day it might be a laugh but things have changed. Amazing no one from paid security even bothered looking at the guy because of the basic AB kit. Somewhat embarrassing back at HQ I’d say.

Lot of respect for Moriarty too, hope he’s ok

Well done New Zealand. Awesome display, as always.

One thing I’ve always admired about NZ is their ability to have support players literally everywhere so that when a player is tackled he’s able to offload to about 5 options all very close by. Left, right, behind, etc. All within a short pop pass. It’s like a swarm attack! Makes it feel like they’ve got 20 players on the pitch. Whereas with a team like Wales, we always seem to be spread out in a thin line in attack so when a player in midfield gets tackled he goes down isolated with no offload options and ends up getting turned over or at least slowed down and a load of teammates need to come in and clear out leaving the next phase depleted.

I’ve also always admired the AB’s aggression (if that’s the word) in every facet of play. When we (Wales) get tackled we often just fall to the ground limply and ‘gentleman’ like, and just place the ball back gently (I’m not describing this very well!). The All Blacks really wrestle in the tackle, fighting and shaking to the ground, legs pumping,  twisting and turning, and just making it as difficult as possible for the tackler. It’s just really effective and buys a few more yards and a bit more time until the support gets there, and not ‘passive’ like we seem to do. We need to drill our players to fight for every last inch and keep the legs driving when they get contact. Some of our players seem to be tackled before they’re even tackled, if that makes sense!

Very professional and skilful display by NZ and a typical gutsy performance by Wales. Once again we are outclassed in every aspect from set-piece, power, basic skills and decision making. The score line was a true reflection. It's a pity Wales didn't have their better injured players available as it might have been a little closer.

One or two of the Welsh lads showed some promise for the future, but overall a huge gulf in class. At least the WRU made a killing...although I wonder what they'll spend it on? I doubt much will go towards improving the dire state of professional regional rugby

That was good from NZ, they just did to use what they’ve already done to everyone else I guess… Their lineup is phenomenal. Not so good from Wales but it’s been this way throughout with Pivac, I don’t see us winning a game this autumn. He picked Elias again and it backfired as expected - I don’t suppose anyone else was available though. Basham was good, we knew he would be despite being told he wasn’t that good - hopefully Griffiths will follow. Our backs were poor overall. The centres especially, I did highlight this before but I was basically told that i’m full of sh*t.

Our pack was pretty light, not sure where that is coming from. Back-row?

Oh and yes, the officials were terrible for us. Glad we aren’t the only ones to see it. The French refs are always the worst.

Yep the officials were nearly as bad as the ABs were good ....

Those two (or was it even three?) line outs Wales lost in the NZ 22 just before half time were the straw that broke the camels back. They were going okay but needed a try there. After that is was always going to be one way traffic.

Basham, Tomos and Wainwright all enhanced their reputations I thought - and yes, the Welsh pack was small but not sure there is anything we can do about that. We just don't have big, dynamic carriers.

Taylorman wrote:Yeah in this day it might be a laugh but things have changed. Amazing no one from paid security even bothered looking at the guy because of the basic AB kit. Somewhat embarrassing back at HQ I’d say.

Brad Weber has been inviting him for a pint with the NZ team before he realised they were in a bubble.

The quote from 42.ie stating Roberts is not qualified for Ireland is incorrect.
Whilst it is normally true that if a player spend an extended period away when they are residency qualified, they lose their residency qualification,they can in exceptional circumstances appeal.
Roberts being unable to get back to Ireland during Covid was used as grounds for appeal.
That appeal was successful

maestegmafia wrote:

The Oracle wrote:As I said before, despite being 6N champions we’re 9th in the world for a reason! Japan one behind us. So maybe right to expect that sort of result?

Might even be 10th in the world now!

Even without the PRL tying our hands behind our back and a host of injuries to top players we still would be lucky to be to be within twenty points of the all blacks.

The PRL were not tying your hands behind your back.
You were playing a game outside the international window.
If you want players available stick to the International window.

Taylorman wrote:Well done ABs, thanks to the two kiwi boys for the intercepts… cheques on the post. .

True. - have to say at least McNicholl was trying, he had an unexpectedly decent game. Our backs just don't have a cutting edge without Liam Williams, George North and the next kiwi off the rank Michael Collins. Forwards were second best by quite a distance anyway, so naturally our backs would look average.

Can anyone actually answer why none of the 3 hookers at the Ospreys were called up?

Oakdene wrote:Can anyone actually answer why none of the 3 hookers at the Ospreys were called up?

I'm assuming Parry was injured, as he wasn't involved against Munster. Still, I would have had him over Elias from the beginning. Phillips I'm not sure if he has enough playing experience yet and I'm not sold on him either. I assume the third is Dewi Lake? I haven't seen him play for a while either.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Can anyone actually answer why none of the 3 hookers at the Ospreys were called up?

I'm assuming Parry was injured, as he wasn't involved against Munster. Still, I would have had him over Elias from the beginning. Phillips I'm not sure if he has enough playing experience yet and I'm not sold on him either. I assume the third is Dewi Lake? I haven't seen him play for a while either.

I would have had Phillips ahead of Myhill or the Ulster lad.

I agree with that, although I have always rated Myhill but definitely ahead of the Ulster lad. Not sure what Pivac was thinking with that one.

Feel a bit sorry for the Ulster lad. He’s answered a call but, as Geoff alludes to above, he could be out of favour at Ulster going forward if he becomes NIQ. So then he’ll need a region to sign him, but when fit and firing we’ve got lots of hookers already! So the question is…… where does he go?

So here’s what we have. Where do you think Roberts fits in this lot:

Established (sort of) with Wales already:
Ken Owens
Elliot Dee
Ryan Elias
Kirby Myhill

Dragons:
Taylor Davies
Hibbard
Ellis Shipp

Ospreys:
Dewi Lake
Sam Parry
Ifan Phillips

Cardiff:
Liam Belcher
Iestyn Harris
Kristian Dacey

Scarlets:
Daffyd Hughes
Dom Booth
Marc Jones
Shaun Evans

He could probably take the place of Liam Belcher.

Yeah, I was just going to write that some of those names are probably on the low side of the required quality! So could take a squad place off one of them.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Ryan Elias leave the Scarlets to be honest, he has never kicked on truth be told.

Any rumours on Jones' injury as I haven't seen anything concrete? A newspaper column suggests the short cuts taken with the Lions may have come back to bite him?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Any rumours on Jones' injury as I haven't seen anything concrete? A newspaper column suggests the short cuts taken with the Lions may have come back to bite him?

Lots of radio silence really on this which is never good, mind I think the majority of us expected the short cut to potentially lead to a recurrence of the issue.

I think he could be out for a while, maybe until towards the end of the season. I think we might have moved on by then, and we should have been planning for this anyway. If that’s the case I think he will come back into the setup for his swan song, and what an occasion it will be!

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/those-defending-blacks-tackle-ross-22036026

Agree with a lot of this, and felt the same as Dickson at the weekend. Will be interesting to see what happens as any citings will be today I guess?

It’s a difficult one. This one for me was slightly different. It wasn’t a head high ‘shot’ as such. Not in the conventional sense. It wasn’t one that was across the chest and slipped up either. The defence (from memory) was sort of set already and Moriarty was looking at them then decided to bow his head and charge headfirst into them. I agree with the ‘what could they do’ thing. Easy to say in slow motion that the ABs players needed to change their defensive stance when they saw Moriarty dip his head but in real time I doubt that would have been possible. We need to question Moriarty’s wisdom in changing his own stance and charging head first too.

I’d hate to se a time when attacking players run around dabbing their heads on people in an attempt to get them sent off. Not saying Moriarty did that here but if it’s something that will get an edge going forward then how long til we see players using it and playing up to head contact?

Just watched it again and the 1st AB player (Blackadder?) should have got a yellow too (by the letter of the law - no arms tackle mitigated by Ross dropping his head and leading with it). However, Ross bumps off Blackadder into Laulala so it’s so difficult to judge the 2nd one.

mikey_dragon wrote:Oh and yes, the officials were terrible for us. Glad we aren’t the only ones to see it. The French refs are always the worst.

Pascal Gauzere disagrees with you

Oakdene wrote:It wouldn't surprise me to see Ryan Elias leave the Scarlets to be honest, he has never kicked on truth be told.

He signed a new deal just 6 months ago.

The Oracle wrote:So here’s what we have. Where do you think Roberts fits in this lot:

Established (sort of) with Wales already:
Ken Owens
Elliot Dee
Ryan Elias
Kirby Myhill

Dragons:
Taylor Davies
Hibbard
Ellis Shipp

Ospreys:
Dewi Lake
Sam Parry
Ifan Phillips

Cardiff:
Liam Belcher
Iestyn Harris
Kristian Dacey

Scarlets:
Daffyd Hughes
Dom Booth
Marc Jones
Shaun Evans

Taylor Davies is a Scarlets player.

Where he's playing currently. Just trying to see where the gaps are or where regions are short of hookers.

I would suggest the key question would be which of the hookers listed are out of contract next summer

Taking a look at Dragons as stated Davies is a Scarlets player and Hibbard will 38 by next summer.
Obvious gap there

Also Cardiff could do with another half decent player

The Oracle wrote:Just watched it again and the 1st AB player (Blackadder?) should have got a yellow too (by the letter of the law - no arms tackle mitigated by Ross dropping his head and leading with it). However, Ross bumps off Blackadder into Laulala so it’s so difficult to judge the 2nd one.

Not a routine situation to work through but just listening to the Rugby Podcast; Chris Jones and Ugo Monye say there are 2 issues. One Monye points out Dickson is correct, no mitigation can be used if the actions of the player are always illegal ie he's never attempting to wrap so then it's just a case of where did he hit him. Think of Tuilagi's red against Wales a couple of seasons ago. I didn't think it was a red at the time as the winger is tackled which causes the high hit but because it's always a shoulder its red. The other issue which I hadn't considered was the mixed officiating teams. WR had replied to a question on why it was a mixture of league refs rather than all from the Prem etc and it was because it was an out of international window test, and issues with covid. Not ideal all round.

I was watching the Breakdown (Kiwi rugby show) and all three commentators were speaking about how pleased the ABs were to beat Wales again. Surprisingly, I don't remember a single mention of the game being outside the test window.

What do NZ and Wales fans think about this game in these circumstances (i.e. Wales without the likes of Biggar, Faletau and LRZ)? Does it bother NZ fans that their side (match sharp, full strength) didn't beat the strongest national side which Wales could have put out (granted, there were lots of other injuries)? Conversely, can Wales fans really be particularly upset that they lost the game in these circumstances?

I completely understand that the home unions desperately need the 4m quid which comes from hosting the All Blacks but what I don't understand is anyone claiming afterwards that the result is meaningful.

George Carlin wrote:I was watching the Breakdown (Kiwi rugby show) and all three commentators were speaking about how pleased the ABs were to beat Wales again. Surprisingly, I don't remember a single mention of the game being outside the test window.

What do NZ and Wales fans think about this game in these circumstances (i.e. Wales without the likes of Biggar, Faletau and LRZ)? Does it bother NZ fans that their side (match sharp, full strength) didn't beat the strongest national side which Wales could have put out (granted, there were lots of other injuries)? Conversely, can Wales fans really be particularly upset that they lost the game in these circumstances?

I completely understand that the home unions desperately need the 4m quid which comes from hosting the All Blacks but what I don't understand is anyone claiming afterwards that the result is meaningful.

Personally, I’m happy to keep the 4 games as it is much needed funding for the pro game in Wales.

I’d be more bothered if, say, half our squad played in England. As it is, we only had Biggar and possibly LRZ as probable starters who were unavailable. Young I suppose might have got a bench spot. Sheedy might have got on the bench instead of Anscombe as Anscoombe was just back from injury. Faletau is out injured so wouldn’t have started. Tompkins seems a bit out of favour so I’m not sure if he’d be selected. Is he even allowed these days with the 60 cap rule or is he still on the same contact after his loan to the Dragons?

So reality is that if everyone is completely fit I think our strongest team only misses maybe Biggar, LRZ and Faletau outside the window. So 3 players for 1 autumn game. It was just magnified as we were playing the ABs! If we had Fiji first up then it wouldn't have been such a problem, although I’m not discounting their threat either. Just not AB level

George Carlin wrote:I was watching the Breakdown (Kiwi rugby show) and all three commentators were speaking about how pleased the ABs were to beat Wales again. Surprisingly, I don't remember a single mention of the game being outside the test window.

What do NZ and Wales fans think about this game in these circumstances (i.e. Wales without the likes of Biggar, Faletau and LRZ)? Does it bother NZ fans that their side (match sharp, full strength) didn't beat the strongest national side which Wales could have put out (granted, there were lots of other injuries)? Conversely, can Wales fans really be particularly upset that they lost the game in these circumstances?

I completely understand that the home unions desperately need the 4m quid which comes from hosting the All Blacks but what I don't understand is anyone claiming afterwards that the result is meaningful.

NZ media loves to omit things, for example they will talk about how unlucky NZ was to lose vs SA, but then not mention they were lucky to get a penalty in the first match to beat us. They would say something along the lines of "after NZ beat SA in the first test to regain the number one ranking they were unlucky to lose the second test.

Their media hype is strong.

Springbok team for Wales.

15 Damian Willemse, 14 Jesse Kriel, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Herschel Jantjies, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Kwagga Smith, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Trevor Nyakane, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche.
Subs: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Jasper Wiese, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn.

Old Man wrote:Springbok team for Wales.

15 Damian Willemse, 14 Jesse Kriel, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Herschel Jantjies, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Kwagga Smith, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Trevor Nyakane, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche.
Subs: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Jasper Wiese, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn.

Decent!!!

The Oracle wrote:

Old Man wrote:Springbok team for Wales.

15 Damian Willemse, 14 Jesse Kriel, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Herschel Jantjies, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Kwagga Smith, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Trevor Nyakane, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche.
Subs: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Jasper Wiese, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn.

Decent!!!

But not great.

Would prefer Fassi at 15, Marco van Staden at 7 and Reinach at 9.

Missing is Malherbe, Snyman, Pieter Steph du Toit, De Klerk, Kolbe, Nkosi and Le Roux.

Old Man wrote:Springbok team for Wales.

15 Damian Willemse, 14 Jesse Kriel, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Herschel Jantjies, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Kwagga Smith, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Trevor Nyakane, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche.
Subs: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Jasper Wiese, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn.

The exact same pack starters and bench that beat the ABs then. Faf and le Roux missing from the backs in that game on top of Kolbe though.

It's such a shame for Nkosi to miss the game due to visa issues. I really rate him.

When PSdT's layoff coincided with Jacques du Plessis returning to the Bulls I thought he might get a go as a similar style of blindside. He always impressed me a lot whenever I saw him playing for Montpellier.

Old Man wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Old Man wrote:Springbok team for Wales.

15 Damian Willemse, 14 Jesse Kriel, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Herschel Jantjies, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Kwagga Smith, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Trevor Nyakane, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche.
Subs: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Jasper Wiese, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn.

Decent!!!

But not great.

Would prefer Fassi at 15, Marco van Staden at 7 and Reinach at 9.

Missing is Malherbe, Snyman, Pieter Steph du Toit, De Klerk, Kolbe, Nkosi and Le Roux.

I will obviously bow to your knowledge on your own team, Old Man. But it looks strong to me