The Wales squad - Scotland, Autumn Nations Cup, and beyond

First topic message reminder :

Wayne Pivac will announce the squad on October 6th, likely to be a Scarlet-heavy selection and rightly so. I would also like to see new players come in so we can see what they have to offer. 

Wales might play France on October 24th in warm-up, but there is currently some doubt on whether this will go ahead. Next up is the re-arranged 6N match with Scotland on October 31st. In the autumn nations cup Wales will face-off against Ireland, England, Georgia and either France, Fiji, Italy or Scotland. 

Venues to be announced.

Totally agree with Reinach much better 9

As to Snyman I have to start to wonder if he will come back to be as good as he was, 2 bad injuries in a row and out again for some time.

Old Man wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Old Man wrote:Springbok team for Wales.

15 Damian Willemse, 14 Jesse Kriel, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Herschel Jantjies, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Kwagga Smith, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Trevor Nyakane, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche.
Subs: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Jasper Wiese, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 Frans Steyn.

Decent!!!

But not great.

Would prefer Fassi at 15, Marco van Staden at 7 and Reinach at 9.

Missing is Malherbe, Snyman, Pieter Steph du Toit, De Klerk, Kolbe, Nkosi and Le Roux.

Not sure I've seen enough of Reinach, but Jantjies is a good player. Agree with van Staden who I think is better than Smith and Kolisi. Still, it looks like a class team.

Is it true AWJ, Moriarty and Faletau are out for several months?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is it true AWJ, Moriarty and Faletau are out for several months?

Yes I think so.  Both AWJ and Moriarty need shoulder ops after the ABs game.  So deffo a long time on the sidelines.

Faletau - called up to the squad but always had an ankle injury I think.  Hasn't played for Bath this season due to it, so not something he did in the Wales camp.  So he wasn't deemed fit and sent back.  Not sure how long he's out.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is it true AWJ, Moriarty and Faletau are out for several months?

They’re ruled out of the autumn series. Faletau should be back sooner than that, no time frame for the other two but it could be a few months.

WOL reporting Carre staring in place of Jones & Tomkins in place of J.Williams.

I think we need more than that... Biggar, Halaholo, Liam Williams (if available) and LRZ need to also come in. JD2 to go out. Is this to be announced later today, or tomorrow?

Ken Owens too, obviously. Or maybe whoever Llanishen 2nd's have? Anyone but Elias.

I don't think Halaholo will have finished his isolation period in enough time to have trained etc.

Have you guys heard about Bradley Roberts?

Playing for Ulster, grew up in SA, but couldn't get a pro contract there, qualifies due to a welsh grandparent, Pivac just called him up.

He was thought to be qualifying for Ireland, but some snag in regards to him being back in SA during covid and couldn't get back to Ireland.

So Pivac jumped on him.

Yes, we discussed it days ago.



The BBC haven't reported it, I read it via Cardiff Rugby that Shane Lewis-Hughes and Rhys Davies have been brought in.

Woah - that’s a lot of Welsh injuries in total now.

What are you going to do for loose forward cover in particular?

George Carlin wrote:I was watching the Breakdown (Kiwi rugby show) and all three commentators were speaking about how pleased the ABs were to beat Wales again. Surprisingly, I don't remember a single mention of the game being outside the test window.

What do NZ and Wales fans think about this game in these circumstances (i.e. Wales without the likes of Biggar, Faletau and LRZ)? Does it bother NZ fans that their side (match sharp, full strength) didn't beat the strongest national side which Wales could have put out (granted, there were lots of other injuries)? Conversely, can Wales fans really be particularly upset that they lost the game in these circumstances?

I completely understand that the home unions desperately need the 4m quid which comes from hosting the All Blacks but what I don't understand is anyone claiming afterwards that the result is meaningful.

Personally I can understand why the Commentators wouldnt have mentioned the test Window, mainly because it has nothing to do with us (NZ), its a Great Britain Domestic issue. In terms of the under strength Welsh side,we probably were more concerned about why Willis Halaholo wasnt playing for you guys. we were interested in how Wayne Pivac (No doubt getting the odd bit of advice from Mark Anscombe,) prepared his team, we were interested to see how Gareth Anscombe steered/directed your team around the park especially for that first half.

We werent really worried about players missing through injury but I think you will find Aaron Smith, Sam Cane and Dane Coles will be back shortly.

Kiwi kids when learning Rugby always have it drilled into them that you "can only play the side that put in front of you", and its a mantra that has a lot of merit.

In so far as revenue is concerned I thought both teams deserved every cent they earned as I understand they both probably needed it.

The result was meaningful, the game was played in good spirit, yes one team won 7 tries to 1, however you try and tell those young Welsh players that played for their Country last saturday night in front of their friends and family that it was meaningless and see what reply you get.

Oakdene wrote:I don't think Halaholo will have finished his isolation period in enough time to have trained etc.

He doesn't join the squad until tomorrow.

#PivacOut

However, we do appear to have a better bench this week. Not sure how Elias keeps his place... Ellis Jenkins hasn't played enough rugby IMO, but I think he could do well and I hope that he remains injury-free.

Wales: Johnny McNicholl; Louis Rees-Zammit, Jonathan Davies (capt), Nick Tompkins, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Adam Beard, Ellis Jenkins, Taine Basham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Bradley Roberts, Wyn Jones, WillGriff John, Ben Carter, Seb Davies, Gareth Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Liam Williams.

Has Roberts been introduced to his team mates yet or are they waiting until Saturday?

If everyone was fit and on form then that back line has lots going for it.  But......they're not all on form!  Still, pretty decent I feel and no real arguments from me.  However, the main issue for me is the forwards and the platform (or lack thereof) that they will deliver.  Injuries have of course hampered us but I'm struggling with some decisions.   I've never been that impressed with Rhys Carre.  Happy to be proven wrong, but is he really a better scrummaging prop than Wyn Jones? He's bumped the Lions prop to the bench.  Ryan Elias not great either but all that is available a hooker.  So as a front row unit they're going to be up against it and I worry how they'll cope, especially as the Boks are famed for their front row prowess and scrummaging.  Second rows are OK and about the best we can put out currently, but that backrow looks light to face the boks.  Two 7s really in Jenkins and Basham and a mobile running 8 in Wainwright.  Jenkins not long back from a long injury followed by another injury in his first game back.  So only played a couple of games in over a year.  The boks' backrows are all like locks!  Going to be tough at the breakdown for us to win ball and to exert any authority.

So in summary, I think the Boks forwards will smash 7 shades out of ours and we'll be living off scraps! Gonna be tough to get anything out of this game.

Bok pack missing Malherbe and PSDT, Nyakane has been moving from Loosehead to tight head quite a bit this season and Nche still very inexperienced.

Personally I think Nyakane is a better loosehead than tighthead. Expect Kock, Marx and Kitshoff to come on around the 40 minute mark, might be just before half time, or just after halftime.

Kwagga Smith is a small flanker by anyone's standard and whilst he played very well vs the All Bllacks he isn't the same specimen as PSDT.

Whilst the reserve front row will make a big impact, Wiese and Mostert aren't in the same class as Snyman.

The problem with the SA pack is they don't have the "bomb squad" effect as they has during the RWC.

The funny thing is both Kolisi and Kwagga were very average vs the Wallabies, they showed nowhere near the intensity they showed vs the All Blacks.

So the question is which pack will rock up. If fired up the pack can be very effective, but during the season there were times where they lacked intensity.

As for the backline, with Nienaber selecting Jantjies at nine he have away his gameplan, if he selected Reinach it would mean more possession based rugby as Reinach is much more deadly around the base of the ruck or set piece.

Pollard has been in very average form this season, particularly his goal kicking has been poor, his kick stats for the season is around 70% and he cost SA the first match vs the Wallabies where he missed four kicks at goal, as opposed to Cooper who nailed everything.

Willemse at 15 is a risk, he is prone to lose his cool under pressure and if Wales target him they could benefit from it.

Willie le Roux hasn't been in great nick, hence his axing, but he is our secondary playmaker and an inordinate percentage of our tries come from space or play he created.

The problem with the boks this season is they have fallen back into 2018 where they lost a lot of close matches.

This season they lost three of their four matches by less than a score and two in the last minute.

Their results could just as easily have been 8/10 rather than 6/10.

So it seems their game management has gone down the toilet.

What Bok team will rock up this weekend, and will they have the freedom to play more than kick and chase rugby?

The Oracle wrote:So in summary, I think the Boks forwards will smash 7 shades out of ours and we'll be living off scraps!  Gonna be tough to get anything out of this game.

It's all about developing depth

PhilBB wrote:

The Oracle wrote:So in summary, I think the Boks forwards will smash 7 shades out of ours and we'll be living off scraps!  Gonna be tough to get anything out of this game.

It's all about developing depth

I meant in terms of getting a win rather than the wider benefits of playing it.

How silly, it's all about winning.

mikey_dragon wrote:How silly, it's all about winning.

Agree... they should be able to perform if selected to play international rugby for your country. If they cant, they shouldn't be selected.

Its all about winning now.. especially as Wales have "lost that winning feeling". We've gone from a team who believed they couldn't be beaten (All Blacks being the exception), to a team who have no confidence and look beat before they kick off.

AWJ will be a massive loss, as it was only his leadership that dragged others forward. Only other player who seemed to do that in the Welsh side was Ken Owens, and he's not there either.

Pivac's job was saved by a 6 Nations win, and that was lucky for him, unfortunate in the long term for Wales. He needs to be replaced now, to give a new coach time to shape a side before the next RWC.

Only chance of a win this Autumn is against Fiji, and I'm not hopeful for that. Especially as that "lower tier" game is the norm for trying out combinations and "fringe" players.

I know we don't do well in AI games as a rule, but cant remember if we have lost ALL of them before. If not, could be Pivac's year for winning a record he might not want.

No9 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:How silly, it's all about winning.

Agree... they should be able to perform if selected to play international rugby for your country. If they cant, they shouldn't be selected.

Its all about winning now.. especially as Wales have "lost that winning feeling". We've gone from a team who believed they couldn't be beaten (All Blacks being the exception), to a team who have no confidence and look beat before they kick off.

AWJ will be a massive loss, as it was only his leadership that dragged others forward. Only other player who seemed to do that in the Welsh side was Ken Owens, and he's not there either.

Pivac's job was saved by a 6 Nations win, and that was lucky for him, unfortunate in the long term for Wales. He needs to be replaced now, to give a new coach time to shape a side before the next RWC.

Only chance of a win this Autumn is against Fiji, and I'm not hopeful for that. Especially as that "lower tier" game is the norm for trying out combinations and "fringe" players.

I know we don't do well in AI games as a rule, but cant remember if we have lost ALL of them before. If not, could be Pivac's year for winning a record he might not want.

So while I would agree that winning is important, you also look at the circumstances the team is in going into the game. If you look at the list of forwards that may well have made this squad but for injury or unavailability, they are not only great players, but also offer a lot in terms of leadership (AWJ, Owens, Dee, Tipuric, Moriarty, Hill, Ball, Faletau, Navidi), so to ask for a win or failure is not quite fair. What it will allow is Pivac to give an opportunity to the likes of John, Carter, Basham and Wainwright to see if those guys can step up.

The hooker situation is pretty unheralded, if Parry is injured (which I believe he is), then Elias is the clear candidate to start (I am not defending his performances so far in a Wales shirt), I have to say that the remainder of the hookers in Wales (and Ireland) remain a little unknown to me.

Pivac has earned the right to continue with this squad by winning the 6N, even after everyone dismissed that as a possibility before the tournament started. It's worth bearing in mind that one posters preferred candidate is currently leading his team to a 12th placed position in their league having failed to win anything last season

mikey_dragon wrote:#PivacOut

However, we do appear to have a better bench this week. Not sure how Elias keeps his place... Ellis Jenkins hasn't played enough rugby IMO, but I think he could do well and I hope that he remains injury-free.

Wales: Johnny McNicholl; Louis Rees-Zammit, Jonathan Davies (capt), Nick Tompkins, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Adam Beard, Ellis Jenkins, Taine Basham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Bradley Roberts, Wyn Jones, WillGriff John, Ben Carter, Seb Davies, Gareth Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Liam Williams.

In theory we have a stronger scrummaging bench than last week, but that remains to be seen. I don’t get why Seb Davies is the backrow cover again. Pivac has gone on record saying about fitness after last week again, so wouldn’t it be an idea to have real backrow cover on the bench for Ellis Jenkins? Thomas Young or SLH could’ve covered. Even if he sees something in Seb Davies, then at least have him as the lock cover over Ben Carter.

How does Anscombe get a bench place over Priestland? Priestland looked good last week, so logic would dictate that he should be bench minimum?

I guess the starting line up is as good as it can be. I do worry about how both centres can be exploited defensively (Tompkins can try and grab high, Davies lost pace).

Can’t watch live tomorrow possibly (friend’s wedding). Will try and avoid the score and watch it Sunday. Need to take a bit of momentum into next week. Fiji would’ve likely fancied a scalp anyway, but if we take another hiding tomorrow, they’ll fancy their chances more.

PS the thread is about to go past 20 pages and thus have to be locked. It might be worth starting a new one, if somebody wants to put a bit of effort in?