Scotland v France - Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Scotland face France at Murrayfield in the second round of pool B's fixtures.

Previous results:
Sco 28-17 Fra - Murrayfield, 6Ns 2020
Sco 17-14 Fra - Murrayfield, WC warm up 2019
Fra 27-10 Sco - Stade Francais, 6Ns 2019
Sco 32-26 Fra - Murrayfield, 6Ns 2018
Fra 22-16 Sco - Stade Francais, 6Ns 2017

Pretty even Stevens excluding the WC warm-up, with both sides boasting a 100% home record in the last 5 fixtures. France will be looking to turn the tables after Scotland ended their 6Ns run and in turn end Scotland's record-equalling winning run. Scotland will be looking to improve on a mixed bag against Italy and maintain their home record against France.

Thanks Nelly.

France will really be gunning for us - the defeat in the 6N really stung and ruined their championship winning chances.

France are without ntmack and we'll likely be without our chief sh!t stirrer Jamie Ritchie.

I know I keep saying Skinner isn't an international back row, but I'd actually play him at 6 for this one for extra ballast. You really need it for the French!

I'd give Kebble a start (Sutherland likely injured) and maybe bring CDP on the bench for his extra physicality.

We'd all love to see Jones in the 13 or 23 shirt - will it happen?

RDW wrote:Thanks Nelly.

France will really be gunning for us - the defeat in the 6N really stung and ruined their championship winning chances.

France are without ntmack and we'll likely be without our chief sh!t stirrer Jamie Ritchie.

I know I keep saying Skinner isn't an international back row, but I'd actually play him at 6 for this one for extra ballast. You really need it for the French!

I'd give Kebble a start (Sutherland likely injured) and maybe bring CDP on the bench for his extra physicality.

We'd all love to see Jones in the 13 or 23 shirt - will it happen?

Agree with Skinner in BR, and would like to see Fagerson back, is he out for the whole autumn?

Jones I'm beginning to feel is just a fantasy. Toonie doesn't even consider him bench material most games. For all of us it is utterly baffling, even moreso than Strokosch being picked for the 2015 WC. I can only see him ending up in the international wilderness.

Toonie obviously doesn't rate him, hard to understand why but I just can't see him getting picked this weekend, therefore we will be stuck with the defensive rock with hands like a rock. With no young Scottish centres really sticking their hand up we could be left with him for a while.

To be fair to Harris, he is a solid outside centre. The problem is that Johnson is a solid inside centre. They both work hard in defence and like to straighten against the line. With more flair at inside centre, Harris actually fits quite well. Together, it looks blunt. He did try to do some different things against Wales (the almost move with Hogg) and with VDM/Graham running lines off him he could become a bit more of a complex attacker.

All in all H Jones ought to be given a shot and won't be.

Assuming we are without Sutherland, I do worry what will happen when Kebble goes off. Dell is in the wilderness and Bhatti should have stayed at Glasgow. At least if it is with Nel on the other side, it should keep us even at scrum time.

Without Ritchie, I hope we do go with Skinner or Haining (at 8 with Thomson to BS). Cowan can do a job and maybe makes sense to bench but we should be aiming higher.

This is going to be an intriguing match, France is on a resurgence, Scotland on a winning streak.

Who knows?

France's 31 man training squad for Sunday's game. pick your best 23 out of this lot:
ALDEGHERI Dorian (4 sélections)
ALLDRITT Gregory (17 sélections)
BAILLE Cyril (22 sélections)
BAMBA Demba (13 sélections)
BAUBIGNY Teddy (0 sélection)
CARBONEL Louis (0 sélection)
CAZEAUX Cyril (0 sélection)
CHAT Camille (29 sélections)
COUILLOUD Baptiste (3 sélections)
CRETIN Dylan (4 sélections)
DELBOUIS Julien (0 sélection)
DUPONT Antoine (26 sélections)
FICKOU Gaël (57 sélections)
GROS Jean-Baptiste (4 sélections)
GERACI Killian (0 sélection)
HAOUAS Mohamed (6 sélections)
JALIBERT Matthieu (5 sélections)
JELONCH Anthony (2 sélections)
LE ROUX Bernard (43 sélections)
MARCHAND Julien (8 sélections)
OLLIVON Charles (17 sélections)
RAMOS Thomas (13 sélections)
RAKA Alivereti (4 sélections)
RATTEZ Vincent (7 sélections)
TAOFIFENUA Romain (19 sélections)
THOMAS Teddy (20 sélections)
VAKATAWA Virimi (26 sélections)
VILLIERE Gabin (0 sélection)
VINCENT Arthur (6 sélections)
WILLEMSE Paul (11 sélections)
WOKI Cameron (2 sélections )

The 6 uncapped players will probably not trouble the selectors. This would leave only 2 capped players to not make the match squad. Raka will probably be one of them having just served a 5 week ban for a high tackle and only playing two games so far this season.

I would think the pack will be the same as before. It is the backs that could do with a bit of a change up.

Ntamack out is the forced change. Surely Carbonel has a case for the bench spot with Jalibert starting? Some excellent young fly halves to choose from.

Been really underwhelmed by the little I have seen of Ramos and Rattez at international level. Fickou is fine on the wing but offers far more at inside centre for me.

Effectively, what backline are we likely to see from France sensisball?

Well to add to Scotland's motivation, France got a 28-0 Covid victory against Fiji. Seems a bit generous to include conversions too!

NeilyBroon wrote:Well to add to Scotland's motivation, France got a 28-0 Covid victory against Fiji. Seems a bit generous to include conversions too!  

Yep, if France win this game (as I think they will), then going to throw out some "arguments" if the top spot is decided on a non played game.

No9 wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:Well to add to Scotland's motivation, France got a 28-0 Covid victory against Fiji. Seems a bit generous to include conversions too!  

Yep, if France win this game (as I think they will), then going to throw out some "arguments" if the top spot is decided on a non played game.

Agree it's likely France will win, I expect they will top pool B, however if it were the case that it came down to points difference (which is admittedly rather unlikely) then it would be contentious to say the least, especially as Fiji historically have a knack of scoring quite high despite losing.

My stab at starting back line for France:
(9-15):

DUPONT, JALIBERT, RATTEZ, FICKOU, VAKATAWA, THOMAS,RAMOS.

If RAKA was match fit I would play him ahead of RATTEZ but he probably will miss out on the match day 23.

Back subs:

COUILLOUD, CARBONEL, VINCENT (might make the starting team instead of FICKOU)

Lack of experience for bench half - backs: COUILLOUD has 3 caps and CARBONEL has none!

sensisball wrote:My stab at starting back line for France:
(9-15):

DUPONT, JALIBERT, RATTEZ, FICKOU, VAKATAWA, THOMAS,RAMOS.

If RAKA was match fit I would play him ahead of RATTEZ but he probably will miss out on the match day 23.

Back subs:

COUILLOUD, CARBONEL, VINCENT (might make the starting team instead of FICKOU)

Lack of experience for bench half - backs: COUILLOUD has 3 caps and CARBONEL has none!

That still looks very intimidating from a Scottish perspective! Our defence will definitely be tested. Should be another interesting and hopefully exciting game should the weather hold!

Vakatawa v Harris

RDW wrote:Vakatawa v Harris

Vakatawa has nothing on Mr Graft. He'll be looking at his workrate and quaking. How else do you think we've won 5 games on the trot? Toonie says Hogg is captain but we all know that's just for the cameras

https://www.theoffsideline.com/sam-skinner-scotland-france/?v=79cba1185463

Sam Skinner on the game, he seems keen to focus on the second row rather than back, which is fair enough but he really has it hard there barring injuries!

I fancy the following team:

1. Keeble
2. Turner
3. Fagerson Z
4. Cummings
5. Gray
6. Thompson
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. Price
10. Weir
11. VDM
12. Johnson
13. Harris
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Subs:

Bhatti
McInally/Brown depending on who is fit
Nel
Skinner
CDP
SHC
Lang
Jones - I write this more in hope than expectation

Turner starting - big call!

I think at this level he's very much an impact sub. The first 50-60 minutes of a test match are brutal and incredibly physical. Turner has done his best work when he's come on when a game was breaking up.

I think he deserves it after a big game last week

Neither McInally nor Brown set the heather on fire kn their starts recently

That's kind of my point - it's much easier to make an impact in the last 20 minutes. The first 50-60 minutes as a hooker are absolutely brutal, with no space and a fresh and brutal defence against you.

Turner has earned a start and it is likely that the size gap between him and McInally will be more than made up by whomever comes in for Ritchie

Chances are though we will play it safe and have McInally start. Going to be a big ask for Turner anyway as Chat regularly comes on and is a beard away from being Chabal mark 2. Going to be hard work keeping him in check

Ahhh Chabal

Now there was a player!

Sale back row of: White, Lund and Chabal were a frightening prospect back in the day. Chabal was the monster carrier, White destroyed in the tackle and Lund provided a great link with the backs as well as being a decent carrier.
One of the best balanced club back rows there has ever been.

White is definitely a player we could do with right now. What's he doing with himself these days?

He's Head of Sport at Loretto school these days Neily, apparently.

I heard a stat saying that Chris Harris has the highest win % of any Scotland player over 20 caps since the 1930s - can anyone confirm please?

Mcsweens wrote:He's Head of Sport at Loretto school these days Neily, apparently.

I heard a stat saying that Chris Harris has the highest win % of any Scotland player over 20 caps since the 1930s - can anyone confirm please?

I'd heard that too, I must admit he does seem to be in a winning Scotland side more frequently than not, although tbh Jones probably would be too if he was selected I expect!

Pretty mad that France still only have two players with more than 30 caps in an extended training squad, and 18 with less than 10 caps.

Scotlands win in the 6 nations was partly down to ill discipline from France from what I remember (seems so long ago!). I guess it will be a sign of their development if they can keep their heads more in this one and make the best of all that quality. I guess the pressure to right a wrong might be something Scotland can play on, certainly expect them to try and wind the French up again.

Scotland really will have to up their game from the Italy match to mug France off again.

Aye it'll be difficult but I still think Scotland have a chance provided they play less passively than they did against Italy. The other key point will be the bench in my opinion. Toonie will have to make some bold choices if we want to win. We can't just depend on maul tries for this one.

NeilyBroon wrote:

Mcsweens wrote:He's Head of Sport at Loretto school these days Neily, apparently.

I heard a stat saying that Chris Harris has the highest win % of any Scotland player over 20 caps since the 1930s - can anyone confirm please?

I'd heard that too, I must admit he does seem to be in a winning Scotland side more frequently than not, although tbh Jones probably would be too if he was selected I expect!

He has the Peter Horne quality of making every one around him look better....

funnyExiledScot wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

Mcsweens wrote:He's Head of Sport at Loretto school these days Neily, apparently.

I heard a stat saying that Chris Harris has the highest win % of any Scotland player over 20 caps since the 1930s - can anyone confirm please?

I'd heard that too, I must admit he does seem to be in a winning Scotland side more frequently than not, although tbh Jones probably would be too if he was selected I expect!

He has the Peter Horne quality of making every one around him look better....

Well there's still plenty of time to amend that %

I think I'm with Gee on his team selection. Do we know if Ritchie and Graham are out?

It seems fair to give Jones a shot from the bench. Warrior of the month and apart from a few missed tackles has been playing well at fullback. Kinghorn has had a few games now so if they're rotating things a bit Jones would be an obvious choice to cover 13/15.

Kinghorn did media this week though, always a hint thst he will be involved, so i remain unsure thay Shuggy will get a crack.

Not clear that Ritchie is fit or not, but you would think it prudent for him to sit this one out as he will hardly have trained.

I was not sure that Graham was injured but though the greater defensive and tactical nous of Maitland might be more useful against thst French backline

Agree but imagine Toonie will opt for consistency in selection and go for kinghorn starting and nomaits benching. My guess would be:

Kebble
McInally
Fagerson
Cummings
Gray
Skinner
Watson
Fagerson (if fit, Thomson if not)

Price
Weir
VdM
Johnson
Harris
Graham (if fit, kinghorn if not)
Hogg

Bench:
Turner
Bhatti
Nel
Toolis
Thomson/CdP/Fagerson
Horne (SHC if Horne still not fit)
Lang
Nomaits

Not sure Toonie will start M Fagerson back in to a physical France game off an injury enforced month off. Reckon Thomson will be starting either at 6 or 8 even after a poor game against Italy as Toonie seems to like what he offers.

I really do hope they stick with VDM starting. With conservative centres, a strike runner on the wing who can create something out of nothing is a must. Probably the same argument to try Kinghorn over Maitland

Yeah I think VDM is a gimmie after his last game. Maitland would be a good choice given his recent record over France but he's been a bit low on game time. Perhaps we'll see Kinghorn starting with Maitland or Jones on the bench?

Hazel Sapling wrote:Not sure Toonie will start M Fagerson back in to a physical France game off an injury enforced month off. Reckon Thomson will be starting either at 6 or 8 even after a poor game against Italy as Toonie seems to like what he offers.

I really do hope they stick with VDM starting. With conservative centres, a strike runner on the wing who can create something out of nothing is a must. Probably the same argument to try Kinghorn over Maitland

I would argue that we need better link players as there's no real cohesion to our backs play right now. We also need finishers, and I'd say in that regard Maitland is still streets ahead of Kinghorn. He's a very deceptive and intelligent winger and is often involved in our best plays when he does play, as well as being one of our most effective finishers, I'd definitely rather see him start!

Some insights from a L'equipe reporter who watched the French training on Wednesday:

In the training open to the media Wednesday evening at Marcoussis, it was in any case the trend if we believe the implementation. Used to finishing matches, the first row Gros-Chat-Bamba wore the chasubles of the holders at the start of the session. Ditto for the second line Romain Taofifenua, which would replace Paul Willemse. In the third row, Francois Cros injured, it is Dylan Cretin who should start.
Same situation at the opening where Matthieu Jalibert should very probably replace Romain Ntamack, injured in a thigh, and at the rear with the tenure of Thomas Ramos in place of Anthony Bouthier, who was hit in a knee a week ago. Finally, back from injury, Teddy Thomas would find his place in the wing, Gaël Fickou returning to the center. Which would make a total of eight changes from the squad that started against Ireland on October 31.

English version courtesy of google translate!

sensisball wrote:Some insights from a L'equipe reporter who watched the French training on Wednesday:

In the training open to the media Wednesday evening at Marcoussis, it was in any case the trend if we believe the implementation. Used to finishing matches, the first row Gros-Chat-Bamba wore the chasubles of the holders at the start of the session. Ditto for the second line Romain Taofifenua, which would replace Paul Willemse. In the third row, Francois Cros injured, it is Dylan Cretin who should start.
Same situation at the opening where Matthieu Jalibert should very probably replace Romain Ntamack, injured in a thigh, and at the rear with the tenure of Thomas Ramos in place of Anthony Bouthier, who was hit in a knee a week ago. Finally, back from injury, Teddy Thomas would find his place in the wing, Gaël Fickou returning to the center. Which would make a total of eight changes from the squad that started against Ireland on October 31.

English version courtesy of google translate!

I think whatever french side ends up playing it will be rightly the favourite! Teddy Tomas returning isn't good news for us that's for sure!

France are, well, French.

The changes being made are either forced through injury or are "incumbent" players returning, but still, 8 chnages to a team that won and won well is quite dramatic.

France are still favourites but I can see this being a ding dong of a battle. It will entirely depend on which French team turns up, and in a bizarre twist of irony, it matters even more which Scotland team turns up!

So it's Fat, Cat, and Cretin in the forwards.
I fancy our chances

Mcsweens wrote:So it's Fat, Cat, and Cretin in the forwards.
I fancy our chances

Welcome to 606v2 Mcsweens!

I'm a big fan of your Haggis fyi

bsando wrote:

Mcsweens wrote:So it's Fat, Cat, and Cretin in the forwards.
I fancy our chances

Welcome to 606v2 Mcsweens!

I'm a big fan of your Haggis fyi

Thankyou!
Like me it's high in fat and smashed on Jan-25th.

Team out at lunchtime?

Morning gentlepeeps.
I'll try to squeeze this in just before the Tombola spews out the 15 lucky winners in the Grab A Jersey Prize Draw.

Toonie will ALWAYS start the Geordie James Brown at 13 if he's fit. Our recent failures tended to occur when we were losing patience in the opponents 20 and, in the words of Cowboy Dave, "trying to pull a rabbit out of our backsides". The Hardest Working Man In Rugby seems to have put an end to this madness. How? It's a mystery to me, Ted.
However, while we have a solid, defensively sound, no nonsense 13 we don't seem to panic when we haven't scored after two or three phases. This ability to retain possession and focus means we are grinding out wins rather than throwing ourselves under every passing bus.
So, Johnson-Harris in the centres.
FES was very astute in his assessment of the lack of balance in our back row. Welsh posters have commented that Blade Thompson is not suited to receiving the ball in the wide channels: either Toonie changes how we expect an 8 to function or Matt Fagerson starts.
I'll be disappointed if Mbawza plays after failing his HIA so possibly Thompson-Fagerson-Hamish for me.
Tagive may make the bench as I think the French will be pretty big and bulky from 1-15. Shug may still be keeping Bonaparte companly on Elba for the time being.

Scotland’s campaign-opening win over Italy in Florence last weekend extended the national team’s run to five consecutive Test victories, a sequence which began against Italy in February.


Only twice have Scotland won six Tests in a row since 1900 (1925/26 and 1989/90).

Focussing on the task at hand, Townsend said: “France are full of confidence and have played really well this year.

“We know we're playing one of the best teams in the world right now, so to rise to this challenge we're going to have to play close to our best throughout the contest on Sunday."

Edinburgh wing Blair Kinghorn is the only change to the starting back division.

He replaces clubmate Darcy Graham to link up with captain and full-back Stuart Hogg and fellow Edinburgh back Duhan van der Merwe in the back-three, with centres Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) and Chris Harris (Gloucester) and half-backs Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) and Duncan Weir (Worcester Warriors) all reinstated.

The return of fit-again Glasgow Warriors number 8 Matt Fagerson (ankle) and a new front-row of Oli Kebble, Fraser Brown (both Glasgow Warriors) and Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) completes the team changes in the forward pack.

Kebble and Berghan earn their first start of the campaign in place of injured Edinburgh loosehead Rory Sutherland (ankle) and Glasgow tighthead Zander Fagerson – who joins the replacements – while hooker and vice-captain Brown completes his return from the concussion sustained against Georgia last month to replace Stuart McInally – with George Turner retaining his place on the bench.






Scotland prop Oli Kebble poised for first start




Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) and Jonny Gray (Exeter Chiefs) partner at second-row once more, with Edinburgh pair Hamish Watson and Jamie Ritchie returning to complete the back-row – and starting side – with Matt Fagerson.

Edinburgh loosehead Jamie Bhatti takes the bench place vacated by Kebble and could feature for his country for the first time since last summer – in Scotland’s away win over Georgia in Tbilisi.

Saracens duo Sean Maitland – who scored twice against France in March – and Duncan Taylor – who last featured for Scotland against Russia in Rugby World Cup 2019 – also join the bench.

Townsend said: “It’s great to have Fraser, Jamie and Matt recover from their recent injuries, and we are delighted to also involve Jamie, Duncan and Sean in a match-day squad for the first time this season.

“The Autumn Nations Cup is all about opportunity – the opportunity to play in a new competition and the opportunity for us as coaches to see how a large number of our squad perform when given the chance to play.

“The support from the BT Murrayfield crowd was incredible last time we played France in March in the last game before the lockdown and, while they unfortunately won’t be with us in person this weekend, we’re grateful for all the messages of support letting us know that the nation is behind us once more as we take to the field this Sunday.”




Scotland team to play France at BT Murrayfield Stadium




Sunday 22 November (kick-off 3.15pm) – live on Amazon Prime Video

15. Stuart Hogg CAPTAIN (Exeter Chiefs) – 78 caps

14. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 24 caps
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester) – 21 caps
12. Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Edinburgh) – 3 caps

10. Duncan Weir (Worcester Warriors) – 29 caps
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 35 caps

1. Oli Kebble (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
2. Fraser Brown VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 52 caps
3. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 27 caps
4. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 15 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Exeter Chiefs) – 59 caps
6. Jamie Ritchie VICE CAPTAIN (Edinburgh) – 21 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 35 caps
8. Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps

Substitutes:
16. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps
17. Jamie Bhatti (Edinburgh) – 15 caps
18. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps
19. Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 8 caps
20. Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – 7 caps
21. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Exeter Chiefs) – 13 caps
22. Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 26 caps
23. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 48 caps

A few tweaks from Toonie

Zander starts and his brother gets his chance to capture the No.8 shirt from the start.

Still no sign of Shuggy, Blairhorn gets the wing spot again and Sleep Sean is on the bench along with Duncan Taylor, who Toonie clearly has not forgotten about!

It looks a strong team though, especially with Ritchie back into the back row, which looks a bit better balanced now and some impact with Thompson off the bench.

jimbopip wrote:Morning gentlepeeps.
I'll try to squeeze this in just before the Tombola spews out the 15 lucky winners in the Grab A Jersey Prize Draw.

Toonie will ALWAYS start the Geordie James Brown at 13 if he's fit. Our recent failures tended to occur when we were losing patience in the opponents 20 and, in the words of Cowboy Dave, "trying to pull a rabbit out of our backsides". The Hardest Working Man In Rugby seems to have put an end to this madness. How? It's a mystery to me, Ted.

The Carlisle Charles Bradley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBdTVmSVq14

And France

15.Ramos; 14.Thomas, 13.Vakatawa, 12.Fickou, 11.Rattez; 10.Jalibert, 9.Dupont; 1.Gros, 2.Chat, 3Bamba, 4.Le Roux, 5.Taofifenua, 6.Cretin, 7.Ollivon (c), 8.Alldritt

That bloody cretin Cretin better not make a nuisance of himself! Sigh.. when is lockdown over again?

The obvious advantage I see here is Rattez looks a bit flimsy in the tackle so if VDM gets on his wing at some point he might have a golden opportunity to run over him. Rattez is a great attacking player though, Kinghorn will need to be wary. Thomas will be a good test for VDM, he's a world class winger.

Tough one to call but I think I might say Scotland by 1 actually. France have all the razzle dazzle but they'll need to use it effectively to gain an advantage. Pragmatic Scotland will hopefully force them into another fierce battle and stay in the hunt until the end when France should tire a bit. No rain for Sunday so it should be a great game of open rugby!

bsando wrote:And France

15.Ramos; 14.Thomas, 13.Vakatawa, 12.Fickou, 11.Rattez; 10.Jalibert, 9.Dupont; 1.Gros, 2.Chat, 3Bamba, 4.Le Roux, 5.Taofifenua, 6.Cretin, 7.Ollivon (c), 8.Alldritt

That bloody cretin Cretin better not make a nuisance of himself! Sigh.. when is lockdown over again?

Not forgetting Agent Aldrit, the fifth column in le Troisieme Ligne.

Any day now, lol

Very strong looking Scotland squad again, I think Fagerson is getting a rest on the bench for fear of another front row injury. Duncan taylor on the bench though... I'm a big fan of superdunc, and if he's on form and fit he's one of our best centres, but him over Jones seems bizarre. A very Toonie decision, I think Huws international career is toast.