WHS and all that jazz!

First topic message reminder :

You asked and I delivered. Here we can discuss all things World Handicap System. Like it or not, it comes into effect on Monday November 2nd so we’re going to have to get used to Handicap Index, Course Handicap, Playing Handicap, Slope Rating, Course Ratings and everything in between

Sounds like a real mess ladyputt. Are you getting a lot of "feedback" from the members?

Under the new rules Trump is now a scratch handicapper.

Email today from my club stating that although the England Golf website is available for access it contains no results from October competitions. Now whether that's just from our club or nationwide, I don't know. The email doesn't mention general play cards for October today either.

Has to be something incorrect with this system. I'm now +1

Well done Super. You have achieved my dream in golf.

Does this mean quite a lot to you?

McLaren wrote:Well done Super. You have achieved my dream in golf.

Does this mean quite a lot to you?

Until it is confirmed Mac I'm not getting too excited. I'm still highly dubious of how it is calculated and I'm braced for a correction back towards scratch.

McLaren wrote:Sounds like a real mess ladyputt. Are you getting a lot of "feedback" from the members?

Fortunately my members appear blissfully unaware of what is happening, despite me telling them, sending emails and updating our Facebook page regularly. Some are in for a shock come our first competition!

Had an email yesterday from the club saying that as England Golf are managing the transition over the weekend, members will not be able to submit supplementary/general play cards over the weekend and Monday. so the Seniors Comp on Monday will be off old handicaps. Luckily it is for Staff Xmas fund anyway, so no players get any money anyway.

You wouldn't have been able to do it at the weekend anyway.

I have a round booked for next Wednesday, can I make that a supplemental?

McLaren wrote:I have a round booked for next Wednesday, can I make that a supplemental?

Presumably Mac. Monday is the 2nd, so you should be able to providing the SGU have things in order (which it doesn't appear they have yet)

At the moment I don't see where on the app you trigger a supplementary? Am I just missing it or will it be added in an update for the 2nd?

McLaren wrote:At the moment I don't see where on the app you trigger a supplementary? Am I just missing it or will it be added in an update for the 2nd?

I'm assuming it will either be updated or it will be through Howdidido as per covid restriction competition entry.

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:At the moment I don't see where on the app you trigger a supplementary? Am I just missing it or will it be added in an update for the 2nd?

I'm assuming it will either be updated or it will be through Howdidido as per covid restriction competition entry.

Is there a supplementary feature on howdidido? Never noticed it.

McLaren wrote:

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:At the moment I don't see where on the app you trigger a supplementary? Am I just missing it or will it be added in an update for the 2nd?

I'm assuming it will either be updated or it will be through Howdidido as per covid restriction competition entry.

Is there a supplementary feature on howdidido? Never noticed it.

No, but I'm assuming that there will be an automated supplementary entry page for your club added in on a daily basis on the "Today's golf" section

I see. But I am not playing my home course?

McLaren wrote:I see. But I am not playing my home course?

Good point Mac. Presume there may be a universal part of the app which either picks out the course using GPS or you add it from a drop down list.

Anyone watching the European Tour from the amazing Aphrodite Hills, Cyprus? The slope rating off the black tees is 131. The slope rating for my Essex course, on flat and open old Essex farmland is also 131! How can that make any sense?

Blue - I always found course rating a better gauge to how difficult a course plays. Slope takes into account blind shots (among many other things, of course) ... and a shot is only blind the first (or in my case the first few) time(s) I play it.

Just checked my handicap index on England Golf website. It seems to have been adjusted (or corrected) and it's now 17.2 (down 0.6)
For my club that's 18 off the front tees (what my old handicap was) and 19 off the back. Haven't been playing for a while, so there must be some refinement going on.

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:I see. But I am not playing my home course?

Good point Mac. Presume there may be a universal part of the app which either picks out the course using GPS or you add it from a drop down list.

Got a notification that howdidido is updating for WHS on Sunday night.

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:I see. But I am not playing my home course?

Good point Mac. Presume there may be a universal part of the app which either picks out the course using GPS or you add it from a drop down list.

We have changed over to VMS where there is a button for members to add General Play scores for home and away courses. Not sure what HDID has done although I know there was the facility to add scores for home club before all this.

Does anyone have the facility for adding scores to the new WHS yet? I've seen nothing on how we do this. Neither the SGU app or Howdidido appear to have this function.

super_realist wrote:Does anyone have the facility for adding scores to the new WHS yet? I've seen nothing on how we do this. Neither the SGU app or Howdidido appear to have this function.

No as far as I can tell there is no way to add a score at the moment on sgu or Hiwdidido. Hiwdidido sent me an email claiming the app should have updated last night but nothing seems to have changed.

LP, what is vms? Do we need to get that?

Our club haven't mentioned supplementary rounds at all in any of their communications about whs.

I expected one of the apps just to have a course database you could select from and enter a score for it.

I can't even see how you could retrospectively add a score.

Usual sh1t show from Scottish Golf Mac.
I would have thought it was a glaring issue that should have been one of the first things addressed and given instructions for.

Just having a nosey around local golf stuff and found that the top amateur around these parts (Jake Bolton) got his new WHS handicap of...+7!! According to his website his current handicap under the old system is +5.6

He's currently ranked 56th amateur in the world so it would be interesting, purely out of curiosity, to see what the lowest handicap in the golf world actually is.

McLaren wrote:LP, what is vms? Do we need to get that?

VMS is an app known as Venue management System. See HERE which your club can use to synchronise member data, payments, handicaps and bookings. Scottish Golf have bought into it.

Super

I think that is the sgu app you can get on android?

McLaren wrote:Super

I think that is the sgu app you can get on android?

I have SGU app Mac, but it doesn't give the option to play a round, not does Howdidido or club V1

Ok, so my SGU app now has a gen play section withing the handicap tab. But no clubs actually show up.

McLaren wrote:Ok, so my SGU app now has a gen play section withing the handicap tab. But no clubs actually show up.

I don't have that yet. Are they running this transition on a Commodore 64? Hopeless.

Hi all...bit late to this whole WHS changeover as not been playing much recently but really interesting to hear how everyone’s getting on with it and what other clubs are doing. We seem to have been pretty well informed at my place with regular emails throughout the year... especially with a more recent one that highlighted FAQs.
Apologies if it’s a tad long but I’ll copy and paste it below for those who are interested and might find it useful at all

Resulting from my earlier emails on the launch of the World Handicapping System (WHS) on Monday, 2 November 2020, as you can imagine, I have received several questions and heard some interesting interpretation on WHS.

To sort the fact from the fiction, I have listed below the most important questions asked and attempted to answer them, making sense of everything from playing and course handicaps, to slope ratings and handicap allowances.

So here we go….

When does the new World Handicap System come into place?
Any golfer with a current CONGU handicap will be given a World Handicap System index on Monday, 2 November 2020.

If I think my handicap index is wrong, what should they do?
There will be outliers, and there is a structure in place to address any concerns. But ultimately if a player’s handicap doesn’t look right and the Club agrees, the Club has the autonomy to make any adjustments.

Can we find out new handicap before the World Handicap System begins on 2 November?
Yes, details on how to sign in to your portal at England Golf was sent to all playing members on Friday, 23 October. Follow the online instructions carefully.

On 2 November, will all our handicap change automatically, or will they need to post 20 scores first?
Using your CONGU record, England Golf is taking your 20 most recent scores, dating back to 1 January 2018, and converting them to a WHS index. So, you’re not starting again. There will be members who haven’t played 20 rounds, but within the rules of handicapping, there is a sliding scale – similar to what we use when allocating new handicaps for beginners – which we can apply to give them a transition handicap.

How many rounds of golf will I need to play to keep your handicap active?
There is no number anymore. Previously it used to be three, but as long as you maintain your membership at the golf club, you will maintain your handicap.

What happens if I take a break from my golf club membership?
England Golf will always keep your record, so your handicap number and scoring history will remain.

One of the biggest differences under the World Handicap System will be that my handicap will change from course to course. How does that work?
The course rating is the starting point. Every golf club is course and slope rated from every set of tees, and then there are separate ratings for men and women. This means that when you go to play a different golf club, your handicap index is based on a course of standard difficulty, rather than your home course. So, if you go and play, say, Wentworth, your course handicap maybe two or three strokes higher than your handicap index because the slope-rating value is higher than standard.



Is my playing handicap the same as my course handicap under the WHS?
No. When you are playing in a competition at Coombe, you will receive an allowance which needs to be applied to your course handicap to give you a playing handicap. For example, if you are playing in a “Major” which is a single stroke play event, you will receive 95 per cent of your course handicap - that will be the number of strokes you will receive. But you must understand is that your “course handicap” which dictates when you can pick up in a Stableford and when not to bother holing out in a match.

Do I enter golf competitions using my handicap index or your course handicap?
If there’s a handicap limit for entry, you will use your handicap index because that is what makes us all equal.

Do I have to submit all scores for handicap?
You can pick and choose to some extent. If it is a competition, those scores must be recorded. But if you are playing a social game, we can choose whether we want to submit a score. However, you can’t go out, play a blinder and then suddenly decide you want to submit your score. You must pre-register before starting your round of golf.

If I submit a ‘no return’, how will that affect my handicap record under the World Handicap System?
Technically, for handicapping purposes, you can’t ‘no return’. But if you are playing nine holes, you must complete all nine holes.

If you only play five, the score is disregarded because we haven’t got enough holes to say this is a reflective score. If you are playing an 18-hole round, you must return a score on at least ten holes. For any holes which are not played, we will allocate a net par for every hole, plus one extra shot, which will give you an 18-hole differential to put into your record. But if you play an 18-hole round and walk off after nine, that score is going in the bin.

Is there a danger that some golfers may try to manipulate their handicap under the WHS?
If a member has failed to submit a score, the Club can replace that score with a penalty score, especially if it is something which keeps happening. So, depending on what the player is trying to achieve, we can counterbalance it by imposing a penalty to either increase or cut their handicap. Ultimately, no system can be built to avoid manipulation. That’s why we all play a vital role in checking and challenging those individuals who are trying it on.

What do you say to those who think the WHS is too complicated to understand?
That 90 per cent of golfers don’t need to know what all the calculations are. What you do need to know is what your handicap index is, and you can find via Intelligent Golf app, the My England Golf portal or the England Golf App which will launch on, which we’re launching on 2 November 2020.

Once you’ve got that, you need to convert that number, using a look-up chart at the Pro Shop or on your app, into a course handicap for the course and tees you are playing. That’s all you need to worry about because the technology will do everything else for you. The key thing to remember is H.C.P., so Handicap index, Course handicap, Play golf.

Is the new golf handicap system mandatory?
Yes. In Great Britain & Ireland, the current handicapping system, which is maintained by CONGU, will be replaced by one single, global system. It is designed so golfers will be able to obtain and maintain a handicap index and use this to compete on a fair and equal basis across any format, on any course around the world.

How will my new handicap be calculated?
Start with your handicap index. This will form the basis for your course and playing handicap. Every score in a player’s handicap record will be converted to a score differential. This is calculated by multiplying the difference between your gross score and the course rating by 113, then dividing by the slope rating of the tees that were played. For instance, you score 83 gross, the then subtract the course rating for the white course at Coombe Hill which is 71.5 and then divided by the slope rating of 127 – you score differential will be 10.2.

That figure then goes forward into a pool of the player’s 20 most recent scores. The best eight are then selected and a simple average is taken to calculate every golfer’s handicap index.

Easy, eh? Luckily, you won’t have to worry about this, as the World Handicap System will do all the hard work for you.

Is my golf handicap likely to change much with the new system?
While testing the new system, England Golf found that the handicap index of most players was within one stroke of their existing CONGU handicap.

What’s the difference between ‘course handicap’ and ‘playing handicap’?
Slope rating and course rating are used to determine your course handicap, which represents the number of strokes a player receives from any given set of tees prior to the terms of the competition. If a handicap allowance is applied, the adjusted course handicap is defined as a playing handicap, which represents the number of strokes a player gives or receives for the competition.

How will my course handicap be calculated?
We have provided a ‘handicap calculation conversion table’ on the Pro Shop wall close to the 1st tee where all slope ratings will be listed. You will also be able to do it manually by multiplying your handicap index by the course’s slope rating, divided by the “neutral” slope of 113.

Why is the neutral slope 113?
The USGA considers this to be a course of “standard playing difficulty”, though England Golf claims the average GB&I slope rating is 125.

Hang on... what is a golf course slope rating?
It indicates the standard difficulty of a golf course for the “bogey golfer” relative to the scratch player. Every set of tees will have a slope rating, and those numbers will vary between 55 and 155. The higher the slope rating, the greater the difference expected between the scores of those scratch and bogey golfers.

What is a ‘bogey golfer’?
This is the term used when carrying out a course rating. It represents the ability of a golfer (20 handicap for men, 24 for women) on a course of average difficulty.

Does a higher slope rating mean a golf course is more difficult?
No. A course rating, which indicates the number of strokes the scratch golfer is expected to take under normal playing conditions, is the core evaluation of a course’s difficulty. It’s important to remember that the course rating affects a player’s index far more than the slope number.

How are golf courses rated?
All courses are rated under the USGA Course Rating System. There are five factors that are considered for each hole. These are:

– Roll: Assessment of how far a ball will roll on fairways with various surface conditions/contouring.
– Elevation: Difference in elevation between the tee and green and for a player’s approach shot to the green.
– Wind: Average wind strength and direction.
– Forced lay-up: Where a player is forced to play short of obstacles that cross the fairway.
– Dog-leg: Where the dog-leg design of a hole does not allow a full tee shot to be played.
There are also 10 other obstacles that are evaluated on each golf hole:
– Topography: Nature of the stance and lie within each landing zone and approach shot elevation to the green.
– Fairway: The width of fairway landing zones, hole length and nearby obstacles, including trees, hazards and rough.
– Green target: Evaluation of hitting the green with the approach shot and the visibility and nature of the green surface.
– Recoverability and rough: Difficulty of recovery if the tee shot landing zone and/or the green is missed.
– Bunkers: The size, depth and proximity to the landing zone and green.
– Crossing obstacle: Shot length to safely carry water, penalty areas, out of bounds or extreme rough.
– Lateral obstacle: The distance of obstacles from the centre of the fairway and green.
– Trees: The size, density and proximity of trees to the centre of the landing zone/green, shot length to target areas, and recovery difficulty.
– Green surface: Putting difficulty on a green. This takes into account green speed, surface contours and tiers.
– Psychological: Evaluation of the cumulative effect of the other nine obstacle factors.

Each obstacle is given a numerical value, from 0 to 10 (0 being non-existent, ten being extreme). The process is repeated on every hole and for every tee. Through this data, a scratch and bogey rating is achieved.

Do I need to play a certain number of rounds per year?
Scores will not expire, but your handicap index will only be valid if you’re a member of an affiliated golf club. To maintain an accurate handicap, it is recommended that players return at least 20 scores over a two-year period.

I’m a new golfer - how do I obtain a handicap index?
You must submit 3 x 18 holes, 6 x 9 holes scores or a combination of both. Revisions will be daily, so once they’ve submitted scorecards totalling 54 holes or more, an initial handicap index will be awarded and based on an adjusted average relative to the number of scores that have been submitted. This will continue until a fully-developed handicap with 20 scores on record is achieved.

Will I be able to play off any tee?
You will be able to return scores from any tee that has a course and slope rating for your gender.

Do I have to submit my score from every round of golf I play?
It will be mandatory to submit all singles competition scores, but you will have the option to submit social/recreational scores, as long as they are pre-registered and conform to the Rules of Handicapping and Rules of Golf. Each time a score is submitted, your handicap index will be recalculated and updated for the next day of play, or soon after.

Will I use my handicap index or course handicap for competitions?
Competition entry (eligibility) will be based on your handicap index. The conditions of the competitions will be published in advance of the competition. For example:

– A maximum handicap index limit for entry (most likely).
– A maximum course handicap limit.
– A maximum playing handicap.

Will there still be a competition standard scratch (CSS) score?
No, but a playing conditions calculation (PCC) will adjust score differentials when abnormal course conditions cause scores to be unusually high or low. This will be based on how players have performed compared to their expected performance on that golf course.

How is the PCC calculated if only one player submits a score for handicap purposes?
The PCC can only take place if at least eight acceptable scores have been submitted by players with a fully-developed handicap index of 36.0 or below. It is then applied retrospectively, after your score is posted, within the calculation of score differentials for all players.

– A 0.0 adjustment means the course played as expected.
– A -1.0 adjustment means the course played easier than normal.
– A +1.0, +2.0 or +3.0 adjustment means the course played more difficult than normal.

But what happens if the weather is different in the morning and afternoon?
Only one PCC calculation will take place, so both sets of conditions will be taken into consideration, similar to the existing CSS calculation.

Will buffer zones and annual handicap reviews still exist?
Annual reviews will, but buffer zones will not.

If I hit two shots out of bounds and pick up on that hole, will I still be able to submit my score?
Yes. When the format of play allows, you are encouraged to pick up once you have reached your maximum hole score for handicap purposes – which is a nett double bogey.

What happens if I fail to complete a full nine-hole or 18-hole round because of fading light?
If you fail to play the minimum number of holes required, the score is disregarded. For a nine-hole round, all nine holes must be completed. For an 18-hole round, at least ten holes must be completed. If you play more than ten holes but less than 14, you will be allocated nett par plus one stroke for the first hole not played and then nett par for the remaining holes. If you play 14 or more holes, you will be allocated nett par for the remaining holes.

If I submit a ‘no return’ (NR), will I get a 0.1 increase on my handicap?
There are no 0.1 increases under the WHS. Failure to submit your card after a bad round won’t just land you with a bad reputation. We will have the option to apply penalty scores, reset a handicap index, consider disciplinary action, or withdraw a handicap index for an agreed period - even more reason to front up and accept that everyone has a bad day.

Exception: If you complete more than ten holes but less than 14 holes in an 18-hole round, nett par plus one stroke must be added to the first hole not played.

What would happen if there is a delay in a score being returned, either due to tardiness or technical problems?
Scores should be entered before midnight on the same day. Any scores not entered before that time will still be accepted but will not be used as part of the PCC.

How will the WHS prevent handicap manipulation?
A soft cap or hard cap will be applied to limit any extreme movement of a player’s handicap index within 365 days. A soft cap will suppress the movement by 50 percent after a 3.0 stroke increase over a player’s low handicap index, whereas a hard cap will restrict any upward movement above 5.0 strokes. However, annual reviews and exceptional scoring reductions will still apply.

For multi-round golf events such as a club championship, will I use my initial handicap index for each round?
The WHS recommends that the handicap index at the start of the competition is used for each round of the event. However, this will be stated in the conditions of the competition.

Will there still be exceptional scoring reductions (ESR)?
Yes, but only if a player submits a score that produces a score differential that is seven strokes or more below their handicap index.

– If the score is 7.0 – 9.9 strokes better: A -1.0 handicap index adjustment will be applied.
– If the score is 10.0 or more strokes better: A -2.0 handicap index adjustment will be applied.

Can I use my handicap abroad?
Yes, your handicap index will be converted to a course handicap for the course (and tees) you are using on the day. If pre-registered, these scores can be returned to your home club for handicap purposes.

How much is my handicap likely to increase or decrease under the World Handicap System?
There is no limit by which a player’s handicap index can decrease – but a soft cap will “suppress” any increase when the difference between a player’s newly-calculated handicap index and their lowest handicap index in the last 12-month period is greater than three.

This will work by reducing the value of any increase over 3.0 by 50 per cent, so a player’s handicap index will better reflect their underlying ability, rather than a bad run of form. As a second safeguard, a hard cap will then limit any “extreme upward movements” to five strokes.

To view a handy guide of the Rules of Handicapping, Players Reference Guide, please click here

I hope the above was helpful,

Colin R. Chapman
CEO

https://mailchi.mp/b9454c8bfc28/world-handicapping-system?e=5393ab40fd

All that text and not a word about how you register for a round or return a score

My golfing pal, played the sport most of his adult life. Good competitor, former Club Captain and great team player. I've known him best part of 20 years, he's always bounced between 13 and 14 CONGU handicap. We're playing in the Mid-Week Stableford in the morning, first game under the new handicap system and last game before lockdown. He is off 19 tomorrow, a 5 shot increase in one foul swoop. What a complete and utter joke this new system is! I won't be playing him for much money tomorrow!

Thanks for posting that TM2K.

Those FAQ were interesting, particularly since they seem a little different from guidance we have from the usga over here.  According to usga we can enter a nine hole round if we have played at least 7 holes.  We need at least 14 holes to enter an 18 hole score.  If we play more than 9 but fewer than 14 we're told to post a 9 hole round.   This will be combined with another 9 hole round to make up 18.  

We enter scores on the usga.org website where we can select state, course and tees from drop down lists.  The main difference for us with the new system is that our max score on any hole used to be a fixed number depending on your handicap so for example I could never record anything higher than 8.    Now it's net double bogey so varies by hole.  usga.org has a pretty extensive FAQ section for anyone who's interested, including the calculation of the adjustment for course condition, weather etc.  

Since we nearly always play 9 holes, almost never in competition, handicap isn't too important for me other than just to see how I'm doing.

Plunky wrote:
Since we nearly always play 9 holes, almost never in competition, handicap isn't too important for me other than just to see how I'm doing.

I play in a quite a few comps and the same applies to me. Handicap is just a measure of where my game is at. I don't aim to win handicap comps.

I'm never wrong wrote:

McLaren wrote:LP, what is vms? Do we need to get that?

VMS is an app known as Venue management System. See HERE which your club can use to synchronise member data, payments, handicaps and bookings. Scottish Golf have bought into it.

Our club is using VMS instead of ClubV1 mainly because it is free from Scottish Golf and also gives us a free website. Saves us about 1200 a year which is a lot for a small club like us.

Plunky wrote: According to usga we can enter a nine hole round if we have played at least 7 holes.  We need at least 14 holes to enter an 18 hole score.  If we play more than 9 but fewer than 14 we're told to post a 9 hole round.   This will be combined with another 9 hole round to make up 18.

Slightly different here, Plunky. If you play 9 holes, you have to complete 9 holes, but if you play 18 holes, you have to complete 10. Doesn’t seem fair somehow. Missing scores are calculated as net double bogey. No option to call it a 9 hole round.

What I don’t understand is, if it’s supposed to be an international handicapping system, why is it different in different countries? Very odd

My thoughts exactly when I saw the FAQ posted here that differed from pga.  I'd assumed everybody would be following the same rules etc.  in theory I think I could set out to play 18 holes, play great on the front 9, lose the plot on the back 9, walk in after 13 holes and post only the front 9 score !

Finally got the wretched SGU app working after the laughable SGU addressed some obvious issues affecting at least 50% of users.

Turn up at the course, no wind, mild but foggy. I'm ready to put a score in and then see that the greens have been sliced and heavily topdressed so a complete waste of time to put a score in.

Plunky wrote:My thoughts exactly when I saw the FAQ posted here that differed from pga.  I'd assumed everybody would be following the same rules etc.  in theory I think I could set out to play 18 holes, play great on the front 9, lose the plot on the back 9, walk in after 13 holes and post only the front 9 score !

Surely you have to stipulate before going out whether you are playing 9 or 18?

Has anyone handed in a score yet under the new system? If so how did it go and what difference did it make to your handicap index?

Us boys south of the border will get back to you in early December!

super_realist wrote:

Plunky wrote:My thoughts exactly when I saw the FAQ posted here that differed from pga.  I'd assumed everybody would be following the same rules etc.  in theory I think I could set out to play 18 holes, play great on the front 9, lose the plot on the back 9, walk in after 13 holes and post only the front 9 score !

Surely you have to stipulate before going out whether you are playing 9 or 18?

Nope, we keep score and post our totals on the usga website when we get home. We've been doing it that way for years.

No wonder so many Yanks have such eyebrow raising handicaps then. That's a cheats charter if it's set up like that.

So...won’t get to use it for a while but it looks like my handicap index has settled at 4.6. I think it was the case during October that scores were added from the Congu DB on their own, then subsequently CSSs were factored in, then away scores with slope & rating factored in.

What does that make your Home Course/Playing Handicap compared with previously JAS?