Australia v India Test Series Tipping Competition

First topic message reminder :

2020 Border - Gavaskar Trophy Tipping Competition Rules:

Changes since last tipping competition
- Omitted the "Overall Test Prediction", so just pick your winning team before each Test. Or go for a Draw if you like.
- Simplified wicket keeping - select who will take more caught behinds and stumpings combined. Paine or Saha. 50 points for the correct pick.
- If they both take the same number of dismissals - then we all get only 25 points each. Or nominate "the same" to get 50 points.

1.
Pick 2 (two) batsmen and 2 (two) bowlers from both Australia and India who you think will score the most runs and take the most wickets.
You get both batting and bowling points per innings so a bowler who scores runs has both batting and bowling scores added together.
e.g.
Wade, Smith, Starc, Cummins
Pujara, Kohli, Shami, Bumrah

2.
Pick 1 (one) fielder from each team; excluding wicket keepers for most catches in the Series.
It can be a bowler (for c&b) if you want.
e.g.
Labuschagne, Rahane

3.
Select which wicket keeper will take the greatest number of catches, stumpings and run outs combined for each Test.
If a wicket keeper is injured then the replacement keeper's figures shall be used.
e.g.
Paine or the same

4.
Predict the Toss:
a) Who wins the toss?
e.g. Australia

b) Winning captain's decision - bat or field?
e.g. Bat

5.
a) Predict the 1st Test result.
e.g. India

Selections must be posted a minimum one (1) hour before the commencement of each Test. No PM reminders shall be sent.


Scoring:

1.
1 point for every run scored by your nominated batsmen. Add together for each Test.
Bonus 20 points for 100 runs.
extra 25 points for 150 runs.
extra 40 points for 200 runs.
extra 50 points for 250 runs.
extra 60 bonus points for 300+ runs.

Note: the batting & bowling score bonuses accumulate so;

Batting:
100 runs = 120 points. A player scores 127 + 20 = 147 points.
150 runs = 195 points. A player scores 176 + 20 + 25 = 221 points.
200 runs = 285 points. A player scores 243 + 20 + 25 + 40 = 328 points.
250 runs = 385 points. A player scores 282 + 20 + 25 + 40 + 50 = 417 points
300+ runs = 445 points. A player scores 309 + 20 + 25 + 40 + 50 + 60 = 504 points.

Bowling:
20 points per wicket with a bonus 50 points for a 5-fer.
An extra 35 points for 6-fer, 40 for 7-fer, 45 for 8-fer, 50 for 9-fer.
An extra 100 bonus points for a 10-fer.

5 wickets = 100 + 50 = 150 points
6 wickets = 120 + 50 + 35 = 205 points.
7 wickets = 140 + 50 + 35 + 40 = 265 points
8 wickets = 160 + 50 + 35 + 40 + 45 = 330 points
9 wickets = 180 + 50 + 35 + 40 + 45 + 50 = 400 points
10 wickets = 200 + 50 + 35 + 40 + 45 + 50 + 100 = 520 points

Caught and bowled = 20 points for the wicket + 25 bonus points for the catch = 45 points.

2.
Fielder catches: Your nominated fieldsmen earn you 25 points per catch and 25 points for a run out.

3.
Wicket keepers: 50 points for correct selection. eg. Paine or Saha.
Or if you think they will take the same number of total dismissals per innings - then nominate "the same" = 50 points.
If they take the same number of catches and stumpings (combined) and you've picked either one of the keepers - then 25 points only.

4.
a) Correctly predict who wins the toss = 15 points
b) Correctly predict what the winning Captain decides to do = 15 points - only for those with part a) above correct; no points if your a) was incorrect.

5.
a) Correctly predict the winning team for each Test = 75 points.
b) If you guess all 4 Test Match outcomes correctly then there is a further 125 point bonus = 300 + 125 = 425 points.
Note: Correctly predict a "Draw" = 75 points

If one (or more) of your selected players gets injured during a match or is dropped from the Test side after a match, then you’ll have the opportunity to select replacement players – either as it happens - for the injured player or before the next Test commences (for a player who gets dropped). Doesn’t have to be the actual substitute player – it can be somebody else already in the team. However, you don’t receive any of their previous points – you must start accumulating points from scratch with them.

*****

1st Test (D/N), Adelaide, Dec 17 - Dec 21 2020 Australia win by 8 wickets
2nd Test, Melbourne, Dec 26 - Dec 30 2020 India win by 8 wickets
3rd Test, Sydney, Jan 7 - Jan 11 2021 Match drawn
4th Test, Brisbane, Jan 15 - Jan 19 2021 India won by 3 wickets

India win the series 2-1 and retain the Border-Gavaskar Trophy.

Good Luck!

Gooseberry wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

KP_fan wrote:here are  my revisions for T2


1.
Pick 2 (two) batsmen and 2 (two) bowlers

India: Jadeja, Pant, Ashwin, Bumrah
Aus: Cummin, Starc, Hazelwood, Lyon

Makes me think of the Bill Shankly quote:
''The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they do not know the game.''

Think you need to add a spirit of the game rule, or just stop giving batting and bowling points to all selections. As it stands hes just being smart, the scoring balance is in favour of the bowlers unless its new zealand at home.

It's disappointing though that a spirit of the game rule should be needed here.

guildfordbat wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

KP_fan wrote:here are  my revisions for T2


1.
Pick 2 (two) batsmen and 2 (two) bowlers

India: Jadeja, Pant, Ashwin, Bumrah
Aus: Cummin, Starc, Hazelwood, Lyon

Makes me think of the Bill Shankly quote:
''The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they do not know the game.''

Think you need to add a spirit of the game rule, or just stop giving batting and bowling points to all selections. As it stands hes just being smart, the scoring balance is in favour of the bowlers unless its new zealand at home.

It's disappointing though that a spirit of the game rule should be needed here.

Yes, I agree it's bending the rules too much. So much for my 'reaching out' goodwill.
As John Heywood's 1546 Collection of Proverbs states: “Give him an inch and he'll take an ell,”... but KP_F has obviously overlooked "Ellabuschagne".
I'll keep monitoring the situation and may have to make an adjustment later.

Guys
my selections being the center of discussion....I too owe expressing my view here:

-My selections are based on long observation where many a times top order(s) are hopeless & lower orders outscore the top six often times by even double the amount....English team being Case in point for many years
as was the Aussie lower order last time when india toured here.

-my selections are making a statement on these pitches and significantly lower quality of top order bat vs the high quality bowling on display, I repose more faith in lower order outscoring the top order....and their wickets being an amplifier

-per the rules of the glorious game of test cricket itself ...runs are not discounted if they come from nos. 10 and 11 nor wickets from part-timers discounted.

-That said I am stlll in the bottom-most quarter not winning yet, nor guaranteed to win.
Let it play on until the end of series.....and we all can see where this finishes:roll:
There is no real money at stake...and If i do get to the top.....I will forfeit the win.

We are all aware that bowlers and lower order 'batsmen' can score runs and have indeed turned games around when the top order has failed, KP_Fan. Nothing new there.

However, the rules above and even as you have quoted them clearly state "batsmen":

1.
Pick 2 (two) batsmen and 2 (two) bowlers

If you are suggesting that Cummins and Starc are first and foremost batsmen and not bowlers, then there is something amiss in your understanding of the "spirit of the game" intention of this tipping comp. I agree with Gooseberry and others who have also expressed their concerns.

You're right about the "no real money at stake" bit. If there were; you would have almost certainly been expelled for breaching of rules - for not picking "2 batsmen" - as clearly understood by all other members of this site.

It would be generous of you to "forfeit the win" should you somehow overhaul everyone and "get to the top."

Such charity and hubris... rolled into one!  

Pal Joey wrote:We are all aware that bowlers and lower order 'batsmen' can score runs and have indeed turned games around when the top order has failed, KP_Fan. Nothing new there.

However, the rules above and even as you have quoted them clearly state "batsmen":

:

If one Looks up at most betting sites.....they offer  a category called
"Top Inning batsman"....and allow you to pick anyone of the 11 "batsmen"

You have been gracious in letting me in after the deadline .....and I appreciate the chance to be in this side show.

the further point i was making .....my selections aren't a guaranteed formula for win.....let it play on and see how this radical selection plays against the rest.
As I see it it's a high risk , high gain selection.......and the risk case would have been seen had the pitch played docile & both sides done first inning 400+ scores

In the event  this approach does get me to the top..you are the boss and can "disqualify" me.....since you didn't like forfeiting scenario

It isn't a huge matter I would suggest as at some point no doubt real batsmen will collect some runs...but I think KP_fan is being a little disingenuous in claiming he's picking extra bowlers for their runs

I doubt he really thinks he's going to pick up a lot of points from the runs scored by Cummins , Starc , Hazlewood and Lyon...more like "hedging his bets " to collect the wickets in hopes this will be a low scoring series ...
Picking Jadeja as an Indian bat , on the other hand , seems reasonable.

Up to you , PJ , But I'm happy to see how it plays out.

Jadeja is a fair enough pick based on his actual numbers but the four aussie bowlers are not test standard batsmen.

Pal Joey wrote:We are all aware that bowlers and lower order 'batsmen' can score runs and have indeed turned games around when the top order has failed, KP_Fan. Nothing new there.

However, the rules above and even as you have quoted them clearly state "batsmen":

1.
Pick 2 (two) batsmen and 2 (two) bowlers

If you are suggesting that Cummins and Starc are first and foremost batsmen and not bowlers, then there is something amiss in your understanding of the "spirit of the game" intention of this tipping comp. I agree with Gooseberry and others who have also expressed their concerns.

You're right about the "no real money at stake" bit. If there were; you would have almost certainly been expelled for breaching of rules - for not picking "2 batsmen" - as clearly understood by all other members of this site.

It would be generous of you to "forfeit the win" should you somehow overhaul everyone and "get to the top."

Such charity and hubris... rolled into one!  

!00% with you there, Joey. Sure, we've all entered in the hope of winning but more than anything it's meant to be a bit of fun played in instinctively the right spirit and not an exercise in bending the rules.

You cant really have a competition run by an Australian rely on "spirit of the game" can you

Gooseberry wrote:You cant really have a competition run by an Australian rely on "spirit of the game" can you

Are you suggesting I ought to rely on a large jug of Pimm's and lemonade to run this show, Goose?

Maybe I should seek their sponsorship in order to fund KP_Fan's monetary prize

Points Table
2nd Test, Day 2:

1272 James [259]
1264 JDizzle [107]
1258 Tino [174]
1215 Guildfordbat [219]
1171 Alfie [219]
1150 Gooseberry [91]
1020 Pal Joey [199]
934 KP_Fan [174]
926 Olly [205]
819 Soul Requiem [214]
801 Duty [174]

Average score: 1075 [185]

First figure - accumulative score / accumulative average score
Second figure in [brackets] - daily score / daily average

Note: I've already included the 20 bonus points for Rahane's wonderful 104*

Well done James!

Gooseberry wrote:You cant really have a competition run by an Australian rely on "spirit of the game" can you

Your general point is undoubtedly fair and reasonable but I feel it's long been shown that Joey is descended from the most honourable of British convicts.

I woke up to see I am still stuck at 4th from the bottom.
Inspite of indulgence in witchcraft, sorcery& alchemy as observed by "experts"
None of it has delivered gold yet:)

If Umesh is out for the rest of this match - I'll go with Bumrah as his replacement... under the as it happens - for the injured player rule above.

Duty - please let me know your replacement too. Sent you a PM.

edit: Thanks Duty, received your reply. So Bumrah for you as well.

Don't suppose anyone wants to take Joe '4 runs in the Test' Burns off me?

guildfordbat wrote:Don't suppose anyone wants to take Joe '4 runs in the Test' Burns off me?

Well he's not done much worse than Smith ... but I guess everybody has him so it hardly matters. I fancy you will be able to replace him for match three with the aid of the Australian selectors

Points Table
2nd Test, Day 3:

1490 James [218]
1483 JDizzle [219]
1453 Tino [195]
1386 Alfie [215]
1374 Guildfordbat [159]
1337 Gooseberry [187]
1201 Pal Joey [181]
1190 KP_Fan [256]
1093 Olly [167]
975 Soul Requiem [156]
968 Duty [167]

Average score: 1268 [193]

First figure - accumulative score / accumulative average score
Second figure in [brackets] - daily score / daily average

Very close at the top - we had three different leaders yesterday before James managed to establish a 7 point lead over JD.

It should also be noted that KP_Fan's score does not include two Australian batsmen as set out in the competition rules. For what they're worth...
Also he did include Starc for the 1st Test - see the post above, in particular this part:

Also not all of the top scorers from Day 1 either. So not Kohli AND Pujara and not Starc... just for this Test.

Sorry to be a stickler for the rules KP_Fan but I'll need to make an adjustment to the scores after today when India wraps this one up.

It should also be noted that KP_Fan's score does not include two Australian batsmen as set out in the competition rules. For what they're worth.

Sorry It's not quite clear what you have given me points for and what has not been counted?

KP_fan wrote:It should also be noted that KP_Fan's score does not include two Australian batsmen as set out in the competition rules. For what they're worth.

Sorry It's not quite clear what you have given me points for and what has not been counted?

Starc's points from 1st Test and 4 Australian bowler's points have been counted.

Points Table
2nd Test, Day 4:

1656 JDizzle [173] *
1651 James [161] *
1610 Tino [157] *
1555 Guildfordbat [181] *
1536 Alfie [150] *
1491 Gooseberry [154] *
1386 Pal Joey [185] *
1309 KP_Fan [214] # $$
1268 Olly [175] *
1137 Soul Requiem [162] *
1095 Duty [127]

Average score: 1427 [167]

First figure - accumulative score / accumulative average score
Second figure in [brackets] - daily score / daily average

* Paine 5 dismissals = 50 points (Paine: 4 caught behinds; 1 run out. Pant: 4 caught behinds)
# India win = 75 points

$$  I've deducted 95 points from KP_Fan for selecting Starc in the 1st Test, after we agreed he was to be precluded - apologies, my accounting error.

For the next Test:

Only 2 bowlers will be accepted as per the rules. All-rounders may be chosen as a 'batsman' but for the purposes of this competition, Cummins and Starc will be regarded as pure bowlers; not all-rounders. You get their points anyway if they score a few runs and you've chosen them as bowlers.

Apologies to everybody for any confusion and anxiety caused... and for understanding the intended purpose and fair spirit of this tipping competition.

Well done JD! Picking Gill was a very astute choice indeed!

Curses ! Guildford has sneaked past me again in the battle for 4th Place , despite his having Burns still hung around his neck like a smelly dead albatross...

My trust in Lyon has not been rewarded. And of course Smith refuses to score a run (though as everyone has him perhaps we should declare him a no-runner and let everyone sub someone else in )

Tight at the top , JD and James

I should also mention that I've added 25 points to KP_Fan for a catch I missed.
I was looking at the other end of the spreadsheet... the bowling end that is. He had both Smith and Rahane as his fielders.

Sorry KP_F. I was only kidding about the "management fee" remark in our PM discussion.

You must be tickled pink though. A big win for India today and a very well deserved one too.

I've deducted 95 points from KP_Fan for selecting Starc in the 1st Test, after we agreed he was to be precluded - apologies, my accounting error.

Ohhh My gawd
you gave me the directive to not pick ALL of day-1 performers...so I did not pick ALL but only one i.e Starc
Further you limited me to 133 points on D1 which is half of the table leader for that day and 55 points below the average for D1

and now you make further deductions & fee-surcharges... all of which 350 points if normalized would put me at No.2 if not No.1

And further I am relieved & thankful you did not seek physically cutting my arm and a leg
for letting me start late & for me selections based on observations that Aussie top-order sucks and bowlers win test matches.

But this is a game, a side show and no real money involved.
The real show.....Ind fought back and series is alive

Is Jadeja allowed in a batsman slot then?

guildfordbat wrote:Don't suppose anyone wants to take Joe '4 runs in the Test' Burns off me?

Ill swap you for Vihari who I had for the last two tests thinking he'd get the odd wicket and score runs

You're very lucky I was in a generous mood, KP_Fan.

You had a good full first day to run your algorithms...

Gooseberry wrote:Is Jadeja allowed in a batsman slot then?

Of course. He's a genuine all-rounder.

KP_fan wrote:  I've deducted 95 points from KP_Fan for selecting Starc in the 1st Test, after we agreed he was to be precluded - apologies, my accounting error.

Ohhh My gawd
you gave me the directive to not pick ALL of day-1 performers...so I did not pick ALL but only one i.e Starc
Further you limited me to 133 points on D1 which is half of the table leader for that day  and 55 points below the average for D1

and now you make further deductions & fee-surcharges... all of which 350 points if normalized would put me at No.2 if not No.1

And further I am relieved & thankful  you did not seek physically cutting my arm and a leg
for letting me start late & for me selections based on observations that Aussie top-order sucks and bowlers win test matches.

But this is a game, a side show  and no real money involved.
The real show.....Ind fought back and series is alive

KP-f - I'm not sure if this is just a British expression or a worldwide one. However, you might care to take heed.

When in a hole, stop digging.

[quote="guildfordbat"]

KP_fan wrote:

KP-f - I'm not sure if this is just a British expression or a worldwide one. However, you might care to take heed.

When in a hole, stop digging.

Must be British....not heard elsewhere
What applies here " Call Spade a Spade"

Pal Joey wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Is Jadeja allowed in a batsman slot then?

Of course. He's a genuine all-rounder.

You've been letting people pick Green and he cant bat or bowl

Gooseberry wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Is Jadeja allowed in a batsman slot then?

Of course. He's a genuine all-rounder.

You've been letting people pick Green and he cant bat or bowl

I've been letting you post and you can't punctuate.

Good stuff Joey! Thanks as ever.

I picked India to win T1 and Australia to win T2 - so apologies to Joey or KPF, depending on whoever I pick to win T3!

JDizzle wrote:

I picked India to win T1 and Australia to win T2 - so apologies to Joey or KPF, depending on whoever I pick to win T3!

This is what I PM'd to PJ -

Tino wrote: You'll win this series 4-0. Last test will have crushed any hopes (along with VK leaving) India had.

Even the best of us get things wrong occasionally, JD.

1.
Smith, Wade, Lyon, Starc.
Pujara, Rahane, Ashwin, Siraj.

2.
Labuschagne and Gill

3.
Saha/whoever India's WK ends up being

4.
Australia to win the toss and bat.

5.
Australia

1.
Smith, Cameron Green, Cummins, Lyon
Rahane, Vihari, Ashwin, Bumrah

2.
Warner
Pujara

3.
Paine

4.
India
Bat

5.
Australia

Cheers as always PJ

Think I'm unchanged from my predictions last time

1.
Smith, Labuschagne, Starc, Cummins
Pujara, Rahane, Jadeja, Bumrah

2.
Smith, Rahane

3.
Paine

4.
Australia
Bat

5.
Australia

Cheers PJ

Hi Joey,

Same as last time other than Warner replaces ''no mark'' Burns.

So for the third Test please -

1. Warner, Smith, Cummins, Starc.
Pujara, Rahane Ashwin, Bumrah.

2. Smith, Rahane.

3. Paine.

4. Australia, bat.

5. Australia.

1.
Pick 2 (two) batsmen and 2 (two) bowlers from both Australia and India who you think will score the most runs and take the most wickets.

India-> Gill & Pant
Ashwin and Jadeja

Aus-->Green & Paine
Lyon & Cummins


2.
Pick 1 (one) fielder from each team; excluding wicket keepers for most catches in the Series.
It can be a bowler (for c&b) if you want.


>Remains Rahane and Smith

3.
Select which wicket keeper will take the greatest number of catches, stumpings and run outs combined for each Test.
If a wicket keeper is injured then the replacement keeper's figures shall be used.

>Pant

4.
Predict the Toss:
a) Who wins the toss?

India wins the toss
India bats first

5.
a) Predict the 3rd Test result.

India wins

Pujara , Rahane, Jadeja, Bumrah, Cummins, Starc, Labuschagne, Smith (cant let me down again!)

Rahane Smith

Paine

Aus win bat

Aus win

Thanks everyone.

1.
Labuschagne, Smith, Cummins, Lyon
Pujara, Rahane, Ashwin, Bumrah

2.
Smith and Rahane

3.
Paine

4.
India wins toss and bat

5.
Australia win


From Soul Requiem To Pal Joey, Today at 4:33

Warner, Wade, Cummins and Starc
Rohit, Rahane, Bumrah and Jadeja

Paine Wk

Warner and Pujara

Australia bat

Australia win

Nearly forgot this...

Smith Wade Cummins Starc
Rahane Pujara Bumrah Ashwin

Labuschagne and Jadeja

Paine wk

India win toss and bat

India to win.

Thanks Alfie.

So just awaiting Tino and JD... and final official confirmation of the Pucovski selection of course.


The sky over the ground was sunny and clear a few hours ago... (looking out from my study window just after 7am) but there has been some cloud build-up since. Nothing too ominous looking though. The prevailing wind is out of the south-east from off the coast.

The first two days have probably the highest risk of rain... maybe 20-30% according to the bureau... but I don't think it's the heavy lingering type. More of the passing shower variety. The last few days of the Test are forecast to be more sunny with a low chance of rain.

That's good to hear , PJ...I was a bit concerned the weather might have messed seriously with this match from advance predictions I'd seen.
Series has been so interesting so far it would be a pity if rain killed a game ...though the way both teams can collapse I guess three days or so is enough to make a result likely anyway

Actually wouldn't be surprised if things change a bit and this match sees some bigger scores : surely the likes of Smith and Pujara have to get stuck in sooner or later ?

JDizzle wrote:Merry Christmas to everyone!

1 - Marnus, Green, Cummins, Hazlewood
Pujara, Gill, Jadeja, Bumrah

2 - Marnus, Rahane

3 - Paine

4 - Australia, bat

5 - Australia

Missed the toss, bugger!

I will bring in Smith for Green but otherwise stick with the above please! Aussies to win.

JDizzle wrote:

JDizzle wrote:Merry Christmas to everyone!

1 - Marnus, Green, Cummins, Hazlewood
Pujara, Gill, Jadeja, Bumrah

2 - Marnus, Rahane

3 - Paine

4 - Australia, bat

5 - Australia

Missed the toss, bugger!

I will bring in Smith for Green but otherwise stick with the above please! Aussies to win.

Thanks JD.

Received Tino's.

Points Table
3rd Test, Day 1:

1779 James [128] *#
1754 JDizzle [98]
1738 Tino [128] *#
1621 Guildfordbat [66] *#
1619 Gooseberry [128] *#
1567 Alfie [31]
1514 Pal Joey [128] *#
1324 Olly [56]
1309 KP_Fan [0]
1197 Soul Requiem [60] *#
1176 Duty [81] *#


* denotes correct pick Australia win toss
# denotes correct pick Australia elected to bat

Average score: 1509 [82]

First figure - accumulative score / accumulative average score
Second figure in [brackets] - daily score / daily average

Well, that was quite an odd day in terms of scoring!

Alfie - bit concerned that goose is muscling in on our personal battle for 4th spot.

Meanwhile, I assume that KP-f's zero points from the opening day was part of a cunning masterplan from our own Svengali of this competition rather than an extreme penalty harshly imposed by Joey.

Yes, it's not a typo error, Guildford.

I checked and checked and checked the formula again and again several times during the day. Couldn't believe my eyes. It's no conspiracy; I swear!

Don't worry KP_F... you're bound to score some points tomorrow when Green and Paine arrive at the crease.


After you first get some bowling points I'd imagine.  

Pal Joey wrote:Yes, it's not a typo error, Guildford.

I checked and checked and checked the formula again and again several times during the day. Couldn't believe my eyes. It's no conspiracy; I swear!

Don't worry KP_F... you're bound to score some points tomorrow when Green and Paine arrive at the crease.


After you first get some bowling points I'd imagine.  

PJ is still furious & in punishment mode and in his excel sheet where he has a Row for every ones totals
he has a special cell called KPF GRAND TOTAL with formula "= total cell-total cell"

guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - bit concerned that goose is muscling in on past our personal battle for 4 5th spot.

Fixed that for you

Points Table
3rd Test, Day 2:

2168 JDizzle [414]
2126 James [347]
2027 Tino [289]
1966 Gooseberry [347]
1864 Guildfordbat [243]
1798 Alfie [231]
1757 Pal Joey [243]
1509 Olly [185]
1485 KP_Fan [176]
1405 Soul Requiem [208]
1372 Duty [196]

Average score: 1771 [262]

First figure - accumulative score / accumulative average score
Second figure in [brackets] - daily score / daily average