England v Scotland The Calcutta Cup Saturday 6th February 2021

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England v Scotland
The Calcutta Cup

Twickenham Stadium
London

Saturday 6th February 2021
KO 16.45


Well here we go for a 6n opener.

It is going to be a slightly odd one no doubt, playing this game in an empty stadium. It has been said in the past that Twickenham lacks atmosphere a bit, but we won't have seen anything on this scale.

As usual, it will be England's game to lose. Twickenham has been a graveyard for Scottish sides for a long long time. In terms of hope though for us Scots, the last few games have been a lot closer than usual and who can forget the madness of the last time out, the ultimate game of two halves.

England are missing a few players and there has to be some questions about the match prep of some of the Saracens players, who have not played since the autumn. How they get on in this game will be the great question mark hanging over this game and may set the tone for England over the entire championship. I would imagine Scotland will be pleased to be playing them first up in all honesty.

On the other hand, do Scotland, who with Finn Russell back and pulling the strings and looking a stronger proposition than in the autumn, really believe that they can win in London. They are also largely injury free. It would be a massive step forward for them as a team if they could do that. It remains unclear though and the smart money is still going to be on an England win, albeit likely a scrappy one.


Here is my stab at the Scotland team:

1. Sutherland
2. Turner
3. Fagerson Z
4. Cummings
5. Gray J
6. Ritchie - If fit, but Toonie making promising noises on that front
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. Price
10. Russell
11. Maitland
12. Redpath - I think Toonie will roll the dice
13. Harris
14. VDM
15. Hogg

Subs

Keeble
Cherry
Nel
Gray R
Graham -might have been in the side if not playing this sunday
Steele
VDW
Jones H


The big calls for Toonie are at 12 and No.8

Redpath looks ready and I think he should play him. Graham might have to wait a week, as i think playing today might well count against him, so let Matt Fagerson have the first bite of the cherry.

Maybe Saturday proves me wrong, but I don't think the rest will hurt the Saracens players. It's only two months, the Autumn Nations final was December 6. Given they entered training with England two weeks ago, it will be only 6 weeks without training. Yes, enough to lose an edge but not so long that it is too difficult to get it back. The only exception might be Billy V., but Eddie Jones should see it in camp. I hope.

2 months is longer than the break players get at the end of a season. If you think about normal early season matches after about 30 minutes some players look out on their feet. I think, fitness wise, the majority of Saracens players will be close (within 10%) of their normal match fitness. I think potentially Billy is the weak link. He carries so much weight that if he isn't fully conditioned he may be blowing out of his you know what before half time. If that happens does Jones give him the Shepard's crook and then who goes to 8?
I know Curry has played there for England, not hugely convincingly, or Wilson who has more experience at the base for his club? It would turn what started as a powerful back row into a significantly more mobile, but less powerful unit.

90% fit Sarries players should still give England more than enough to win. Scotland's natural way is to try and up the tempo, which may test those players' fitness, but I don't think it will make much difference. Modern conditioning is so advanced these days.

Here is a thought. Is dropping ford and Playing Farrell at 10 a defensive selection by Jones? Have we got them a bit worried? I certainly am happier seeing Farrell at 10 knowing that handicaps the outside backs

Hazel Sapling wrote:I think the scrum may go to England starting out. It is not as clear cut as it has been for England for the past decade or so. Sutherland has not been ripping up trees in the scrum recently (against Z Fagerson admittedly) and is usually being paired with Berghan, who has struggled, for Edinburgh. Stuart is going to be a good test for him. Williams and Kebble should be a tie at scrum time whilst Z Fagerson should have a shot at getting up on Genge.

Nel though has been destructive at club level. Obano is going to be the pressure point in the last 20 if the game is close and how he scrums may be the decider on whether we can press England at the end.

I doubt the Sarries players are far out of shape. They have had 4 - 6 weeks off to deal with any niggles followed by 2 - 3 weeks in camp and/or building up for the Ealing game. I expect the forwards (B Vunipola, Itoje, George) to be the ones who would struggle more but only Itoje is likely to go 80 and he seems like the type of guy who would stay in shape if he was at a desk job let alone a professional rugby player.

Side note. LiW, Stuart is a good club player in good form, relatively new to international rugby with 8 caps and 1 start. Four of those games are in the 6N and total less than 40 minutes of play according to wiki. Against Scotland, Sinckler played 80 with Stuart on the bench last year. Z Fagerson is trying to lay down a marker for a Lions spot off a year of fine work. Stuart may come good or he may be an okay international TH who can do a job but it is too early to rate him as equivalent or over the established 6N TH's like Francis, Furlong, Sinckler, Porter and Z Fagerson.

Personally I can see England targeting the Scottish scrum.

TJ wrote:Here is a thought.  Is dropping ford and Playing Farrell at 10 a defensive selection by Jones?  Have we got them a bit worried?  I certainly am happier seeing Farrell at 10 knowing that handicaps the outside backs

That's an interesting question. Not really sure. I am happy to see a proper 12 for England as I think Farrell at 12 stunted any real attack the from midfield no matter who was at 10. That said, I agree with Will Greenwood in his column in the Telegraph when he said he would have preferred to see Slade at 12 and Lawrence at 13. But I think you are be right, the move will help the overall team defence, and who knows how Jones plans to attack.

Jones has regularly switched between 2 play makers at 10 and 12 with a stronger direct runner at 12 with Te'o and Tuilagi when available. Lawrence simply gives him the option to do so again. Clearly though england pride themselves on defence and pressuring other teams. We've seen it pretty consistently under Jones that opposition playmakers throw risky passes due to it. Will be interesting to see whether Redpath helps with that.

whatahitson wrote:

Hazel Sapling wrote:I think the scrum may go to England starting out. It is not as clear cut as it has been for England for the past decade or so. Sutherland has not been ripping up trees in the scrum recently (against Z Fagerson admittedly) and is usually being paired with Berghan, who has struggled, for Edinburgh. Stuart is going to be a good test for him. Williams and Kebble should be a tie at scrum time whilst Z Fagerson should have a shot at getting up on Genge.

Nel though has been destructive at club level. Obano is going to be the pressure point in the last 20 if the game is close and how he scrums may be the decider on whether we can press England at the end.

I doubt the Sarries players are far out of shape. They have had 4 - 6 weeks off to deal with any niggles followed by 2 - 3 weeks in camp and/or building up for the Ealing game. I expect the forwards (B Vunipola, Itoje, George) to be the ones who would struggle more but only Itoje is likely to go 80 and he seems like the type of guy who would stay in shape if he was at a desk job let alone a professional rugby player.

Side note. LiW, Stuart is a good club player in good form, relatively new to international rugby with 8 caps and 1 start. Four of those games are in the 6N and total less than 40 minutes of play according to wiki. Against Scotland, Sinckler played 80 with Stuart on the bench last year. Z Fagerson is trying to lay down a marker for a Lions spot off a year of fine work. Stuart may come good or he may be an okay international TH who can do a job but it is too early to rate him as equivalent or over the established 6N TH's like Francis, Furlong, Sinckler, Porter and Z Fagerson.

Personally I can see England targeting the Scottish scrum.

They pretty much always target the scrum. Having an inexperienced set of props likely wont change that. England also usually feel they have the advantage off the bench n that regard too, and the young players are less likely to be gassed after 50 minutes like Vunipola. Fancy even if Englands scrum isn't sharp early they will have the legs later in the game to start pushing Scotland pretty hard and go after their ball.

As for the the Sarries players fitness as much as Itoje looks like he'd stay fit working as a cream cake tester BVP looks like he'd stay unfit working as a professional sports player. Jokes aside they wouldnt be selected if they hadn't scored well enough in the training camp fitness assessments. Match sharpness is a different thing to fitness though, thats the worry for me. More positively they should have had unprecedented opportunuities to rehab long term niggles and build strength with two long breaks in the past year, so whilst the cardio and skills might be rusty they should be fitter in other ways. Its no different to coming off a shortish injury break in that regard, but Jones has tended to work players back in off the bench. England have a habit of looking rusty for the first 10 minutes of most tests regardless of how much rugby their players have had, so is going to be hard to really know if its had an impact.

I think that fitness will be a problem for all teams. The players usually enter a six nations after european rugby so they should be fresher than usual if anything. England should be aiming to have got the job done by the time match fitness becomes a factor late in the game.

Great to see Wilson back in, that's a strong English pack (physically,). Not blown away by half backs and centres, could be an issue.

Morning gentlefolks
It's finally here Yahoo

As ever, the chat on here has been entertaining and informative. Great to see Fly Half Factory and Take The Long Road weigh in with their tuppence worth.

Like most Scottish posters I feel confident about today; mind you I felt confident as I took my seat at Twickers back in 2017! And 2015.

The thing which has been nagging away at the back of my mind is HOOKERS. Yes tigertattie that got your attention, didn't it?
I think Jamie George and Luke Cowan-Dickie are both reliable, solid, hard as nails hookers. You know what you're going to get from them all day long. Now, I like George Turner in the loose. He has an impressive turn of pace, he hits really, really hard in the tackle and he does a lot of work at the breakdown. His throwing tends to wobble under pressure though.
Then there's Dave Cherry. Is he just a squad player at the Luvvies? He's no spring chicken and he has not really been earning rave reviews anywhere.
If we're honest we're playing our third and, at best, fourth choice hookers. There will be a lot of kicking today and if Itoje, Hill and Curry can upset the Scottish line outs then we could be in trouble.

On the plus side; with Daddy's Boy at 10 England tend to play off 9 a lot, this should allow our back row to be all over the breakdown and hopefully win a few turnovers. Turner, a converted flanker, could excel here.

Set piece. Breakdown. If England gain the upper hand here then Dancer is on starvation rations. In which case we probably lose.
IF, big if, Turner consistently hits his jumpers and our back row stops them on the gainline and disrupts/slows down their ball....

Let’s get it on

Ali price is just pish

Kick was getting charged every day of the week there

Is it me or has Itoje been hitting the weights..?
He looks massive!!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is it me or has Itoje been hitting the weights..?
He looks massive!!

Possible lack of game play. Less cardio work

That was a proper chop tackle there. Ouch

really intelligent defence by England (sic).

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is it me or has Itoje been hitting the weights..?
He looks massive!!

Mark Wilson looks like he ate Mark Wilson during lockdown as well.

Three dumb penalties on the bounce is not a good start by England.

Ali Price come on man!

The ref isn't doing us any favours. I though the first Itoje penalty was marginal at best

I think Scotland should have gone for the scrum instead of kicking the penalty...

Was about to praise youngs there for the speed of ball.

lostinwales wrote:The ref isn't doing us any favours. I though the first Itoje penalty was marginal at best

The one for Jonny Hill going off his feet?

Hill basically slid into the ruck off his knees. Pretty clear call IMO.

king_carlos wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is it me or has Itoje been hitting the weights..?
He looks massive!!

Mark Wilson looks like he ate Mark Wilson during lockdown as well.

Three dumb penalties on the bounce is not a good start by England.

Yeah Mark came back from his lockdown/ injury stint looking like Dorian Yates...

No 7&1/2 wrote:Was about to praise youngs there for the speed of ball.

You won't make that mistake again...

And follows up with an awful box kick.

Welcome to international rugby Cameron. Billy blasted him.

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Was about to praise youngs there for the speed of ball.

You won't make that mistake again...

I'm a broken record but I'm hoping to be proved wrong.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Was about to praise youngs there for the speed of ball.

You won't make that mistake again...

I'm a broken record but I'm hoping to be proved wrong.

I agree with you. But still have to hope we are wrong.

Poor start

Looking rusty like a vw beetle in salt water.

Ali price is doing more for England’s chances than any England player

Lucky to be 3 down. Back row anonymous bar curry giving pens away.

7 Penalties by England. UFB.

Wonder when earls and robson come on.

England have given away more penalties in 20 minutes than they usually would in a match. Very lucky to only be 7 points down.

Well there is a surprise. Undercooked

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wonder when earls and robson come on.

Better be soon, mate. This is poopie.

king_carlos wrote:England have given away more penalties in 20 minutes than they usually would in a match. Very lucky to only be 7 points down.

It’s only 3

Scotland’s 3 point lead doesn’t reflect their good start.

Cheers tiger, mistype on my part.

Great tackle by Genge, Curry and George to stop a try.

Agree. Scotland look quite good. Willing to attack.

tigertattie wrote:

king_carlos wrote:England have given away more penalties in 20 minutes than they usually would in a match. Very lucky to only be 7 points down.

It’s only 3

Feels like 30.

Ref guessing at the scrum.

The scourge of scrums is back I see.

Off to put the kettle on

10 penalties conceded by England in less than 30 minutes. Scotland is forcing some of those and credit to them. Bu 10 pens. Really?

DUHAN!!!!!!

And daly being awful. Pretty much everything I feared is coming true.

And Wilson. It's all the full list

England have played some atrocious rugby since the World Cup. This half is up there.