England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

First topic message reminder :

Rum sort of field for Nadeem to Sibley...two short covers ???

Not noted for getting caught there , is he ? Strange theory...

Oh. Just when they looked to have things under control, Pujara goes, in a very unfortunate fashion. England and Bess wouldn't mind though. Pujara could have batted days here, in a way a bigger wicket than that of even Pant. India still miles away from the follow-on, half the side back in the hut. Washington had a tough time with the ball, but he really needs to deliver with the bat here.

If that had hit Pope on the helmet, would it still have counted as a catch?

Dammit, i go to put my washing on and miss the wicket

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:If that had hit Pope on the helmet, would it still have counted as a catch?

No in a word.

To be fair it wouldn't have been far away from Burns had it not hit Pope.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:If that had hit Pope on the helmet, would it still have counted as a catch?

No in a word.

To be fair it wouldn't have been far away from Burns had it not hit Pope.

Cheers SR.

That is so unlucky for Pujara. Not that I'm complaining mind.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:If that had hit Pope on the helmet, would it still have counted as a catch?

I think so, yes. Provided he's wearing the helmet.

Pant still going for it. No surprise there

So far , the "battle" with Leach has been a bit one sided. Five sixes , no chances. Who blinks first ?

Get one of these and England will fancy a big lead.

Duty281 wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:If that had hit Pope on the helmet, would it still have counted as a catch?

I think so, yes. Provided he's wearing the helmet.

No. Would have been a dead ball.

That's the closest Pant has come to falling to Leach. Bit of a top-edge, goes away for a couple.

Leach's figures certainly aren't pretty at the moment.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:If that had hit Pope on the helmet, would it still have counted as a catch?

No in a word.

To be fair it wouldn't have been far away from Burns had it not hit Pope.

Cheers SR.

That is so unlucky for Pujara. Not that I'm complaining mind.

Looked it up and I was wrong, the laws changed in 2017 because the wearing of helmets became mandatory for close in fielders.

Morning, folks. Been catching up on play. Pant's an adventurous hitter or a cheeky s*d depending on your point of view. Leach getting plenty of tap but I would still keep him on - think about a pre-arranged wide for a stumping as one option.

How soon before we see Root throw down a couple of overs?

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:If that had hit Pope on the helmet, would it still have counted as a catch?

I think so, yes. Provided he's wearing the helmet.

No. Would have been a dead ball.

I know that used to be the case, but it got changed in 2017. So unless it has been changed back since then, it would be a fair catch.

"A change has been made so that the ball can be caught after it strikes a helmet which is
being worn by a fielder or the wicket-keeper. With the wearing of helmets by wicketkeepers and close fielders now compulsory at many levels of the game, it has been decided
that a helmet will be deemed as being part of the fielder’s person, meaning that a catch
(or stumping) can be taken after the ball has struck the helmet, or become lodged in it."

https://apps.lords.org/assets/Uploads/Law-Summary-Paper-Interactive-V5.pdf (Page 20)

Sundar starting to counter-attack now. India still about 160 adrift of the follow-on mark.

Duty281 wrote:Sundar starting to counter-attack now. India still about 160 adrift of the follow-on mark.

Couple of horrible balls from Bess though.

I play 3rd 11 village cricket and would be annoyed if I didn't score 8 runs from a full toss and a half tracker.

The Indians continue to play their shots. Washington has got a couple away. England has a slight problem, Leach is leaking runs all over the place, and Stokes seems to have some injury concerns?

Root brings himself on. Going by the kind of game he has had so far, Pant and Washington would do well to give him some respect.

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:If that had hit Pope on the helmet, would it still have counted as a catch?

I think so, yes. Provided he's wearing the helmet.

No. Would have been a dead ball.

I know that used to be the case, but it got changed in 2017. So unless it has been changed back since then, it would be a fair catch.

"A change has been made so that the ball can be caught after it strikes a helmet which is
being worn by a fielder or the wicket-keeper. With the wearing of helmets by wicketkeepers and close fielders now compulsory at many levels of the game, it has been decided
that a helmet will be deemed as being part of the fielder’s person, meaning that a catch
(or stumping) can be taken after the ball has struck the helmet, or become lodged in it."

https://apps.lords.org/assets/Uploads/Law-Summary-Paper-Interactive-V5.pdf (Page 20)

Blimey ! That one had slipped past me ...and past Mark Butcher too , it seems . I don't like it as a rule but it appears that is the new order. Thanks , Duty.

Brian Close didn't need a helmet to bounce one to slip , as guildford will doubtless recall...

msp83 wrote:Root brings himself on. Going by the kind of game he has had so far, Pant and Washington would do well to give him some respect.

He will probably take a hat trick !

Stokes must have a problem , no ? Think he'd have had another burst otherwise.

Leach has been hammered , though he did induce a false shot from Pant in his last over. Bess might be tiring a bit as he's sent down a few pies lately...


But he's got his man !  Pant one big hit too many...and some consolation for Leach in taking the catch

91... Terrific fight from Pant. But he's left the tail with a lot to do...

Pant gone now. This could end quickly for India.

Leach gets Pant! Kind of....
Just enough turn from Bess to get the toe end of the bat there.

I think that's a poor innings from Pant personally, helps his average but achieved very little for his team where time is the important thing.

Six different catchers so far.

Relief for England to get Pant out of the way, as Bess produces a little extra turn. Another tidy catch which underlines an excellent fielding effort. Now get at least a couple more tonight to be firmly in the box seat.

I'd like another catcher in for Ashwin. New to the crease and England so far ahead in the game.
Get a silly point in.

Poor from Pant? He got 91 and is the highest scorer for India...

Soul Requiem wrote:I think that's a poor innings from Pant personally, helps his average but achieved very little for his team where time is the important thing.

Six different catchers so far.

Harsh judgement , Soul ? Pant's skill lies in an aggressive approach. If he'd just poked around he'd likely be out by now anyway and a lot less runs on the board. And he did get rid of the potentially dangerous Leach (who is back now)

Yes it hasn't really brought his team back in the game (unless the tail really wags now) But I'd question whether he'd have achieved anything by playing against type.

A lot depends on what happens now as there really isn't any serious batting after this pair.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:I'd like another catcher in for Ashwin. New to the crease and England so far ahead in the game.
Get a silly point in.

agreed...

You can't expect Pant to bat like Pujara or Rahane, it's just not in his skill-set and it's not his role in the team. He scored 91 runs, a more than decent contribution, and he took up an hour's worth of deliveries.

I think its very harsh to say that Pant's innings was poor. I would say the top order for India failed, not Pant.

eirebilly wrote:I think its very harsh to say that Pant's innings was poor. I would say the top order for India failed, not Pant.

Agree Billy - fault lies at the feet of Rohit/Gill/Kohli/Rahane all contributing less than 50 between them

India's has been caught under cooked, over-confident and had the freak luck against them so far

Rohit fell to probably a good delivery....Gill & Kohli to overconfidence.....Rahane and Pujatra to freak dismissals.....can't blame Pant nor credit bowler for his dismissal

Now by the look of things.....Ind will not avoid follow-on
and I would be surprised if Eng enforces follow on.

assuming India bat out the day and bowled out for 300

Eng 275 in lead would want to bat 2 sessions, get 200 and give India 475 to chase in 4 sessions

never been chased before....but with Rohit, Pant and Gill all capable of cracking a run a ball hundred.....I don't think 475 in 120 overs would be deemed safe enuf from Eng's POV

India need to put their head down and bat as many overs as they can......sundar and ashwin can bat......nadeem and ishant can hang around

If India can bat 50 more overs.....eng's choices become harder

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I think its very harsh to say that Pant's innings was poor. I would say the top order for India failed, not Pant.

Agree Billy - fault lies at the feet of Rohit/Gill/Kohli/Rahane all contributing less than 50 between them

It was a knock of magnificent skill - but I guess it comes down to would India have rather had 91 off 88 or 50 off 150 in that situation. Kind of depends whether they harbour hopes of winning the game or not?

I don’t ever want Pant to change though. What a player to watch.

alfie wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:I think that's a poor innings from Pant personally, helps his average but achieved very little for his team where time is the important thing.

Six different catchers so far.

Harsh judgement , Soul ?  Pant's skill lies in an aggressive approach. If he'd just poked around he'd likely be out by now anyway and a lot less runs on the board. And he did get rid of the potentially dangerous Leach (who is back now)

Yes it hasn't really brought his team back in the game (unless the tail really wags now)  But I'd question whether he'd have achieved anything by playing against type.

A lot depends on what happens now as there really isn't any serious batting after this pair.

To succeed at test level he's going to have to show an ability to play against type now and then, you cannot rely on one method if you're batting at 6.

Fifty more overs seems a lot , KP _fan ! If one of these goes , fifteen might be a lot...

I'd be inclined to let Jimmy loose at Ashwin for a couple of overs before he gets too comfortable.

Sundar continues to impress with the bat. Less so with the ball ,in this match.

If the opportunity arises, I doubt England will enforce the follow-on. But judging a successful declaration will be tough.

Glad to see Stokes coming back into bowl.

I am with you on that alfie, Archer or Jimmy for Ashwin before he settles.

alfie wrote:Fifty more overs seems a lot , KP _fan !  If one of these goes , fifteen might be a lot...

I'd be inclined to let Jimmy loose at Ashwin for a couple of overs before he gets too comfortable.

Sundar continues to impress with the bat. Less so with the ball ,in this match.

Naah...this is not Aus with bounce nor Eng's seaming pitches...nor an Indian-Crumbler(yet)

Ball is coming so-easily-off-the-pitch....so easy to adjust
Not easy...but possible to bat-out time and eat-up-deliveries....they have to change their mindset from the cavalier to dead defensive now

JDizzle, I would take the runs Pant got in this innings over any soakage of hours/overs. The closer India get to avoiding the follow on makes the decision Root has to make harder.

I think it was a stunning counter attack display by Pant.

Soul Requiem wrote:

alfie wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:I think that's a poor innings from Pant personally, helps his average but achieved very little for his team where time is the important thing.

Six different catchers so far.

Harsh judgement , Soul ?  Pant's skill lies in an aggressive approach. If he'd just poked around he'd likely be out by now anyway and a lot less runs on the board. And he did get rid of the potentially dangerous Leach (who is back now)

Yes it hasn't really brought his team back in the game (unless the tail really wags now)  But I'd question whether he'd have achieved anything by playing against type.

A lot depends on what happens now as there really isn't any serious batting after this pair.

To succeed at test level he's going to have to show an ability to play against type now and then, you cannot rely on one method if you're batting at 6.

I don't disagree with that. But on this day , I reckon his innings helped India more than harmed them. They were deep in mud at 76/4 and at least he put England back on their heels for a while. Had Pujara not got out in such an unfortunate manner , the partnership might have got them nearly back in the game. Which was always a tall order from where they were.

Pant by the way, adds yet another 90+ to his collection, his 4th time out in the 90s! And think all 4 times, he was out caught in the deep!

That's not a clever review.

Tim Paine would be proud

Overly optimistic review from Root for lbw ... Surely it wasn't turning that far ?

Yes. Dreadful waste of a review ...OK they had three but really...

What the hell was with that review. Never looked close...

As for Pant, I am disappointed he doesn't bring in a bit more selectiveness to his stroikeplay, but by no means can it be said that the innings really harmed rather than helped the side. Had he been out for 25 or 30 or even 50 for that matter probably, but 91 is a substantial test innings any day on any track in any conditions. Could have been a lot more had he been a touch more selective perhaps, but the pickle India is finding themselves in, is all the making of the top order minus Pujara. Rohit, Gill, Kohli and Rahane that is. How many of them really got out to a real good delivery? Kohli got out to a plan but a poor shot nevertheless, and Rahane and Gill got out to good catches of bad shots. If ever there was a track for Rohit to bring out his flat track credentials out, this was it, but not for the first time, he failed to show up when the situation demanded it.

Good to see Stokes bowling , anyway. Means there's nothing actually wrong with him ; and he might be just the man to grab the next wicket they need to get at the rabbits.
They've done well today ; but they still want to get this innings done and dusted early tomorrow so could do with a couple more wickets now...new ball still fifteen overs away. So just about first thing in the morning.

As KP_fan recommended , India seem to have dropped anchor

Why are England throwing away their reviews?

Closer this one...gah just a tad high

Bess changing studs on the boundary. Get those extra long spikes in Dom!

Another review gone. Not a horrendous one by any means, but a wasted one nevertheless.
So what is the seen with Stokes, He didn't seem a hundred percent in that early spell, was not bowled for very long, and just when it seemed he may be carrying a significant injury concern, he's back.