England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Rum sort of field for Nadeem to Sibley...two short covers ???

Not noted for getting caught there , is he ? Strange theory...

Burned another damn review

This isn't smart. Commentators often claim Buttler is a good judge for reviews but if he's advising on these seriously I'm questioning that view.

And if he isn't then I'm not sure who Root is listening to. Neither looked remotely likely to me. Just one left ; and they might yet need it.

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:If that had hit Pope on the helmet, would it still have counted as a catch?

I think so, yes. Provided he's wearing the helmet.

No. Would have been a dead ball.

I know that used to be the case, but it got changed in 2017. So unless it has been changed back since then, it would be a fair catch.

"A change has been made so that the ball can be caught after it strikes a helmet which is
being worn by a fielder or the wicket-keeper. With the wearing of helmets by wicketkeepers and close fielders now compulsory at many levels of the game, it has been decided
that a helmet will be deemed as being part of the fielder’s person, meaning that a catch
(or stumping) can be taken after the ball has struck the helmet, or become lodged in it."

https://apps.lords.org/assets/Uploads/Law-Summary-Paper-Interactive-V5.pdf (Page 20)

Blimey ! That one had slipped past me ...and past Mark Butcher too , it seems .  I don't like it as a rule but it appears that is the new order. Thanks , Duty.

Brian Close didn't need a helmet to bounce one to slip , as guildford will doubtless recall...

I do and he didn't. If bravery equated to runs and wickets, Close would be up there with Sobers.

I’d be guessing Buttler took that one very, very close to off stump and concluded that without any touch (however small) it would have been at least clipping. Wonder if they review it off anyone but Leach though, trying to build his confidence.

Think Washington and Ashwin shouldn't get into full survival mode. Runs are also important, in making Root's decision in the 3rd innings difficult.

Thirty minutes left. If England can nip out one more, they'll believe they can wrap up the rest within the first hour tomorrow. But if Sundar and Ashwin bat through till stumps it might take an entire session's worth of effort to take the final four wickets.

No real life for Stokes in the surface as yet.

Archer or Anderson for a couple, please.

msp83 wrote:Another review gone. Not a horrendous one by any means, but a wasted one nevertheless.
So what is the seen with Stokes, He didn't seem a hundred percent in that early spell, was not bowled for very long, and just when it seemed he may be carrying a significant injury concern, he's back.

Not as horrendous as the previous one admittedly but they both still came across as ''sympathy reviews'' for Leach.

Of course, Jof dropping catches off Leach won’t help his confidence! Always tough running back over your shoulder.

Odd choice of shot from Sundar. Archer spills a tough-ish one, but one I think should be taken at this level.

guildfordbat wrote:

msp83 wrote:Another review gone. Not a horrendous one by any means, but a wasted one nevertheless.
So what is the seen with Stokes, He didn't seem a hundred percent in that early spell, was not bowled for very long, and just when it seemed he may be carrying a significant injury concern, he's back.

Not as horrendous as the previous one admittedly but they both still came across as ''sympathy reviews'' for Leach.

Might be a bit of that , eh ? Leach hasn't had a great day except for catching Pant. Hammered by Pant and not threatening much now really.

But then he nearly gets one ! Not a sitter ; but I think Archer should have caught that.

Jack's day doesn't get any better...

Tough one for Archer to grab, but he did get both hands to it in the end - not Jack Leach’s day so far...

England's day ; but if they can't break this pair in the next ten minutes or so India will resume tomorrow with some hopes of frustrating them.
New ball will be a different proposition though.

Barring that one poor shot, it's been another impressive, watchful effort from Sundar, and he's kept the scoring ticking nicely. Ashwin his usual obdurate self at the other end.

The draw's narrowly ahead of England at the moment.

Ashwin playing the same role he did in Sydney recently. And doing it very effectively . Hasn't looked troubled. These two doing a good job for the home team.

Archer back for a late burst. Worth a try. But there's not much there for the pace men at present , and he isn't threatening the speed gun in this over.

That is nearly it for today I think ? One more over ?

Duty281 wrote:Barring that one poor shot, it's been another impressive, watchful effort from Sundar, and he's kept the scoring ticking nicely. Ashwin his usual obdurate self at the other end.

The draw's narrowly ahead of England at the moment.

Will depend on how the pitch wears , no ? India look unlikely to get near the England score ; so unless they have a second innings meltdown England should be able to set them a pretty tough last day task.

Would have loved one more wicket tonight. But fresh bowlers in the morning and a new ball in six overs ought to be able to move the game along. Not making any firm predictions yet.

The slowness of the pitch and the discretionary shot selection of this pair has allowed them to eat up 20 overs between them

if the last 4 wkst eat up 30 overs between them on this non -seaming, non bouncy and slow pitch.....reducing the lead down to 250....then Eng have devil's choices inspite of being o far ahead in the game

test cricket is so interesting becauuse of so many permutations it creates

Sums up Leach's day. Gets some sharp turn and it beats everyone for four byes.

England's day comfortably, but India have recovered well from 70-odd for four. Two of their highly-rated top six stood up and made good contributions, even if they weren't Joe Root-size contributions.

The draw is the favourite, but let's see if England can knock over four wickets for next-to-nothing tomorrow.

Leach must be one of the unluckiest guys in cricket! Quiet a mauling he took early on mind. Archer bowling medium pace at the end, no surprise he's lacking stamina hopefuly back up to pace early with the new ball to mop up the tail.

The amount of spin at the end of today suggests England still have a chance of forcing a win here, a lot will come down to how daring they can be with a declaration. Feels frustrating they havent made the best of the unreal start to the day, but they have won all 3 days and none of us thought this sort of scorecard was vaguely in plausible going into the series.

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Barring that one poor shot, it's been another impressive, watchful effort from Sundar, and he's kept the scoring ticking nicely. Ashwin his usual obdurate self at the other end.

The draw's narrowly ahead of England at the moment.

Will depend on how the pitch wears , no ?  India look unlikely to get near the England score ; so unless they have a second innings meltdown England should be able to set them a pretty tough last day task.

Would have loved one more wicket tonight. But fresh bowlers in the morning and a new ball in six overs ought to be able to move the game along.  Not making any firm predictions yet.

Yes, certainly, but I don't think we'll see rapid deterioration and Root's declaration is likely to be more cautious than attacking. Would probably have the draw at a 60-39 favourite over the England win.

Another good day for England, a touch annoying to not grab another one at the end there, but if you’d said they’d have India 250 odd for six at the end of the day, with those six wickets being all of the top six gone, everyone would’ve bitten your hand off for that!

Great days play - superb spells from Archer, Bess’s best day with the ball so far for England, thrilling counter attack from Pant, great catch by Root and some belligerence from Pujara and Sundar/Ashwin.

Still going to be tough to force a win from here, going to need the pitch to really crumble tomorrow and day five...but they’ve given themselves a chance!

Just to add : don't really need the pitch to crumble tomorrow - as long as it's turning and spitting on day five.

Reasonable scenario: get India out about 220-240 behind around lunchtime . Then get the lead back up to 400. If the pitch really "goes" the last day might be a tough one to survive.

Leach has had no joy in this innings. But seeing a couple of those late deliveries today I fancy he might play a big part on Tuesday.

Morning session tomorrow will tell us a lot.

Looking at the batting India have left England would hope to wrap them up in the morning with a lead of about 250.
Bat 1 1/2 sessions to take that to 400 without having to bat recklessly and they have 120ish overs to bowl India out. They might go longer than that and might score slowly if they lose early wickets but the whole of day 5 should give them a good shout to win.

Worst case is India's tail wags and they are still batting after lunch. Sundar really isnt that good though.

Delighted to see Bess prove me wrong somewhat by bowling so well. I wouldn't have expected him to get Pujara, Kohli, Rahane and Pant at the start of play.

Definitely England's day but the game still in the balance for sure.

A potentiality good thing for England about briefly batting again is that they will get choice of which roller is used on the pitch when batting. The heavy roller on these crumbly surfaces is said to break up the top soil and help the pitch deteriorate. I'm usually pretty skeptical of it to be honest but will take anything we can get going into day 5.

Now let me play out the miracle scenario

India's last 4 add another 110 runs
and then collapse Eng out on a spinning / reversing ( bit not yet crumbled ) pitch for 140-160 odd
and then easily chase down 350 to 370 needed.

all that India would need is a good opening of 50+ ...one of the openers to bat for a 90 odd or higher and others to bat around him

India chased down 387 on this same pitch against Eng in 2008-09 after Eng declared 3rd inning
Ishant played that test too

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2008-09-361035/india-vs-england-1st-test-361050/full-scorecard

Hey cling to it KPF...one thing this Indian team wont be short of is that same belief they can turn round any situation.

Listening to Root's interviews before the series there seems to be a lot of belief in this England side that if they can take games deep they will deal well with final day pressure. India definitely have that same belief with their mix of experienced, quality players and highly talented younger bucks. It's something that makes this series very enticing.

As seen in this Test the toss is of massive importance though, I feel as the series goes on that might be seen even more from England's perspective given a more fragile batting lineup.

This Test is very nicely poised for a thrilling finish though. Add the Bangladesh vs Windies final day to the recent Australia vs India series, we have been blessed with some cracking Test cricket in the recent past.

England had a few nail biters over the summer too. Test cricket has been alive a kicking even if the quality of some sides can be questioned.

Channel 4 got an average of 431,000 viewers during Friday's broadcast of the test, peaking at 1.1 million, figures which are roughly double what Sky got for Sri Lanka-England.

In the last 61 completed Tests, there have been 4 4th innings chases of over 300. 1 every 15.25 Tests. That’s is Stokes, Perera, Pant and Mayers.

Before that there were 30 in 2346 Tests. 1 in every 78.2 Tests.

All per @AWSStats on Twitter.

Random luck or T20 having an influence making people think these chases are possible?

KP_fan wrote:Now let me play out the miracle scenario

India's last 4 add another 110 runs
and then collapse  Eng out on a spinning / reversing  ( bit not yet crumbled ) pitch for 140-160 odd
and then easily chase down 350 to 370 needed.

all that India would need is a good opening of 50+ ...one of the openers to bat for a 90 odd or higher and others to bat around him

India chased down 387 on this same pitch against Eng in 2008-09 after Eng declared 3rd inning
Ishant played that test too

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2008-09-361035/india-vs-england-1st-test-361050/full-scorecard

One of the regular Surrey commentators, Jonny Barran, refers to the Pickle Theory in this situation. Essentially the team batting third have a substantial first innings lead but are unsure about batting normally or putting the foot on the gas, when to put the foot on the gas, how long to bat for, etc - you get the picture - and end up in a pickle; i.e. a collapse which allows their opponents back into the game. It shouldn't happen (and doesn't nearly as often as Barran talks about it!) but it does sometimes.

Whilst I wouldn't be too swayed by the Pickle Theory tomorrow, I would nonetheless give thought to enforcing the follow on. That's assuming we get the option as we should and providing (important proviso) the bowlers are all ok. I'm keen to maximise the amount of time to bowl India out a second time - us batting third and then declaring would almost certainly take more time out of the game than necessary. Setting up any declaration nearly always does. It would be too ghastly for words if India batting last were 8 or 9 down and still miles behind at the close on day 5, I want to avoid that as much as possible. I appreciate bowling on day 5 should aid the bowlers more but we can still try and cash in then with the ball if we haven't done so on day 4. I also would back my batters and not be afraid of making, say, 80 to 120 to win on a last day track here.

I realise I appear to be alone with this view here and would be staggered if Root went with it. There are decent arguments against it. I accept that. However, as I say, I would want to talk to my bowlers and consider the option.

Hi guildford

I do not think you are alone in that view - though perhaps in the minority on here. I certainly don't want to see the follow on enforced on this occasion , for reasons outlined above ; but I would never rule out any option too far in advance. Condition of pitch , condition of bowlers , actual time/runs/overs applying at decision time should all be considered.

Would be rather surprised if the pickle theory curse struck England today . Unless the remaining Indian bats do very well they are likely to have a handsome lead and you'd think run chasing on day five is going to be fraught with peril judging by the way a couple of balls in Leach's last over behaved ; so they should be able to bat with relative calm and a set purpose.

But this is cricket and things sometimes don't go altogether to plan so I think I will just watch this first session before trying to channel Nostradamos...

Nearly set to go...

Looking back at highlights it is clear from the way the wickets actually fell the pitch was still generally fine for batting yesterday. Be interesting to see how that develops today.

Also a peculiar thing I noticed : England have taken six wickets - all caught. Yet India had no less than five lbw victims and three bowled in the ten they took . Not usual for such a marked difference in consecutive innings... And no logical reason for it so I think just a random coincidence . But a bit odd on paper.

Ok let's play...

Indian bats not holding back this morning...

Taking to Bess - who hasn't started well today. Seems they want to cash in ahead of the new ball - but also speaks to the positive approach they are bringing to the game (as they did in Australia). They certainly aren't cowed by the position they are in .

Sundar has techqnique and temperament of a batsman.....and can hold well as a specialist spinner.
nothing in the pitch...yet
New ball is Eng's last hope to prise out Ind's last 4 quickly

50 up for Sundar. He looks a talent that's for sure.

It's a very useful 27 runs that these two have managed to smash away before the second new ball. Leach has bowled better this morning but Bess was bit all over the shop after bowling well yesterday.

England will need something from the new ball to break these two apart. Jof and Jimmy time.

Fifty for Washington Sundar

Never mind his bowling , he's proving a real all rounder from the start of his career...

New ball due and England really need it as India are racing this morning..27 runs from six overs , mostly off Bess , who looks tired. 284/6

Come in Jimmy and Jofra...

On the follow on and pickle theory issue I think I'm leaning towards not enforcing the follow on (if England get the chance of course) for a change. Largely to give Jof a bit of time with his feet up. He will be so important not just in the second innings bowling but also the rest of this series and year. If we have a chance to stop Jof being in the field for a long consecutive spell then I'd take it. A session and a half batting with Burns and Sibley opening as usual but the potential to push Root, Stokes and Buttler up the order if really needed should give England a buffer and some time for the bowlers to rest up.

We need to get these last 4 wickets first though.

England continuing with the old ball with the seamers for now. There's a tiny bit of movement coming from the old ball but I think I'd get the new nut in their hands ASAP.

Damned if I know why they were faffing about with the old ball for nine deliveries...soon as he took the new rock Archer had it jump at the batsman.
Simple game this...new ball good , old ball bad , for pace men. Don't waste time.

Have to say these Indian bats have played really well this morning. A few loose balls put away , yes. But not only were they ready to pounce on them , they were clearly looking to score at every opportunity. Showing no anxiety, not letting England bowlers settle...this brief session has already started to turn the game away from England quite quickly.
See what happens once a wicket falls. But it would want to be soonish or the boys will be fretting a bit...

Good bowling change ! Leach with a harder ball , draws the error ...

For a horrible moment I feared Stokes and Buttler were going to leave it to each other but Jos did well to dive and grab the catch

Needed that .

nadeem can hold th bat and that's what he should do.......hold the bat for 50 deliveries as a target
I would get Archer to bowl into Nadeem's body if he can

And a welcome change of fortune for Leach. He didn't bowl as poorly as his figures suggest yesterday ; and if England are to win this match I suspect he will be playing a significant role over the next day or two.

I know nothing of Nadeem's batting. We do know Ishant can hang around. But Sundar might want to push on now he's lost Ashwin ?

Still 74 to avoid the follow on - though I would be astonished were England to enforce it.

alfie wrote:And a welcome change of fortune for Leach.  He didn't bowl as poorly as his figures suggest yesterday ; and if England are to win this match I suspect he will be playing a significant role over the next day or two.

I know nothing of Nadeem's batting. We do know Ishant can hang around. But Sundar might want to push on now he's lost Ashwin ?

Still 74 to avoid the follow on - though I would be astonished were England to enforce it.

Sundar should not start pushing yet , not even when Ishant is in.......only when he gets down to Bumrah as last man can he then throw the bat around

A massively needed wicket for England. Sundar and Ashwin were batting very well.

Whether England can enforce the follow on or not the rate at which Sundar has scored will be vital. Chipping very valuable runs off whatever lead England will hold. Sundar certainly seems to have character in tough situations.

Sundar keeps scoring fluently but Nadeem goes from a good bit of bowling by Leach. He has been much better this morning it must be said. Settling into a good line and length, bowling the ball into the pitch with a bit more intent and venom.

new ball is helping the spinner with some bounce and zip

Ishant needs to hang on.....with Sundar until lunch now

Nadeem didn't last long. Leach having a much better day

I don't know , KP_fan : if I was Washington I'd be looking to get what I can , while I can. Not stupid stuff , mind. But trying to take most of the bowling and going hard at anything remotely loose.

I know Ishant is not awful. But he averages about 8 with the bat...

Good job by Ashwin and Sundar in the morning, but Leach first got Ashwin and then Nadeem to retain control for England. Nadeem couldn't deliver with the bat after his no-ball ridden underwhelming performance with the ball. More questions on Virat's selection call, of not playing Kuldeep and drafting in Nadeem instead.

Wow that is some stroke from Sundar. Completely unperturbed by playing missing to a few good deliveries by Jimmy, just punches a perfectly good ball back over Jimmy's head for 6.

Ishant's value gotta be judged in the number of balls he can "eat-up" and he averages about 30 balls
Sundar though listening to you