Wales vs England - Build Up/Match Thread - 27-2-21

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

Wales v England

27th Feb

KO 16:46

England:

Daly;
Watson,
Slade,
Farrell,
May;
Ford,
Youngs;
M Vunipola,
George,
Sinckler,
Itoje,
Hill,
Wilson,
Curry,
B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Ewels, Martin, Earl, Robson, Malins.

WALES

1. Wyn Jones (32 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (79 Caps)
3. Tomas Francis (54 Caps)
4. Adam Beard (23 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (CAPT) (145 Caps)
6. Josh Navidi (25 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (82 Caps)
8. Taulupe Faletau (83 Caps)
9. Kieran Hardy (3 Caps)
10. Dan Biggar (89 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (29 Caps)
12. Jonathan Davies (85 Caps)
13. George North (99 Caps)
14. Louis Rees-Zammit (6 Caps)
15. Liam Williams (68 Caps)

Replacements:

16. Elliot Dee (34 Caps)
17. Rhodri Jones (19 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (14 Caps)
19. Cory Hill (29 Caps)
20. James Botham (4 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (59 Caps)
22. Callum Sheedy (6 Caps)
23. Uilisi Halaholo (1 Cap)

[Mr Bounce]

I think that the game is likely to be a close affair and somewhat hard fought but stodgy.

I am thinking that there will be yellow cards (plural) in this game, and certainly injuries.

[lostinwales]

Wales selection does seem odd though. How much rugby has JD2 actually played recently?

Not much at all, plus he was poor in the game he did play, against Cardiff recently. He looked very off the pace. Maybe a bit easier for him, now he is moving in one position, but it's not what I would've done.

I did note that the gone well in training line has been thrown out by Pivac. I thought that was a Gatland line only.

Oh I think most coaches are similar. As you may have guessed there is still plenty of head scratching going on about England selections given current form and although I am not sure how often Jones uses that exact wording you get the impression that selections are 'based on performances in training'. You can't argue with that which you have not seen.

[RiscaGame]

Yeah, there has to be an element of trust, but I just think it has never really worked well for Wales to mention it. Obvious examples are Priestland and Cuthbert.

I am sure Davies is keen to play and that, but I just think it's all wrong. Poor passer off his left hand side, lost a bit of pace and not that great a kicker, given how much people go on about his left foot. Other than that, he's alright .

[No9]

Old article... but interesting...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pascal-gauzere-scotland-england-murrayfield-17712120

... Frenchman Pascal Gauzere who has had a few run-ins with Eddie Jones in recent years.

Last year the 42-year-old took charge of Wales' 18-11 away victory against Scotland and was also the man in the middle when Warren Gatland's men thumped the Scots 34-7 in the Six Nations opener in 2018.

There was an exchange in that match, towards the end of the clash, with Wales skipper Alun Wyn Jones that saw Eddie Jones launch an astonishing attack on the Wales skipper.

Then, last August Eddie Jones said Pascal Gauzere should be shown a yellow card for allowing George North’s try in England‘s defeat by Wales even though the French referee acted within the laws.

Gauzere let Dan Biggar take a quick tap penalty that led to North claiming the crucial score as Warren Gatland’s men avenged their defeat at Twickenham six days earlier through a 13-6 victory in Cardiff.

England were expecting Gauzere to wait for the sin-binned Anthony Watson to leave the pitch as punishment for a deliberate knock-on before allowing Wales to restart play.

However, there is no law requiring the referee to pause the game until the carded player is off the field.

When asked if Gauzere should have waited, England head coach Jones replied: “I think we all thought that was the law. So maybe the yellow card should have gone to the referee.

...

I just hope Monsieur Gauzere remembers this and doesn't let Uncle Eddie bully him....

[Geordie]

Jones can be a very cautious selector in some cases and then jumps into the deep on others. He does tend to like players to be around training squads for an extended time before full caps. Perhaps the guys like Lawrence and Odogwu aren't really like to feature prominently until the Autumn.

Your right 7.5 and i think most of us get that. God even on here, between us there always someone calling for the next youngster, a 20 year old to replace the old and past it 22 year old.

Eddie has essentially adopted a policy of a country with a much smaller rugby player pool, like Australia and Japan for example. He is very faithful to those players and trusts them. Thats a very good thing...and we have seen they can get to World Cup finals and win competitions. To get in to the squad and team you have to prove to him that your good enough...

I guess we do get a bit restless with this when we see areas we think should be fixed...ie the midfield and full back, and especially when we see players who WE believe should be there...such as Lawrence etc

Funnily enough i do trust Eddie, and i expect a better performance again from the Italy one. But i do get frustrated sometimes with his calls in certain situations.

[No 7&1/2]

It will be interested to see how Farrell approaches the ref in this game. Nigel Owens was pretty vocal on how Farrell shouldn't have been able to put forward his view quite as strongly this 6 nations. AWJ has obviously contributed massively in the past few years with his whines (Sinckler sticks in mind).

[No 7&1/2]

Jones can be a very cautious selector in some cases and then jumps into the deep on others. He does tend to like players to be around training squads for an extended time before full caps. Perhaps the guys like Lawrence and Odogwu aren't really like to feature prominently until the Autumn.

Your right 7.5 and i think most of us get that. God even on here, between us there always someone calling for the next youngster, a 20 year old to replace the old and past it 22 year old.

Eddie has essentially adopted a policy of a country with a much smaller rugby player pool, like Australia and Japan for example. He is very faithful to those players and trusts them. Thats a very good thing...and we have seen they can get to World Cup finals and win competitions. To get in to the squad and team you have to prove to him that your good enough...

I guess we do get a bit restless with this when we see areas we think should be fixed...ie the midfield and full back, and especially when we see players who WE believe should be there...such as Lawrence etc

Funnily enough i do trust Eddie, and i expect a better performance again from the Italy one. But i do get frustrated sometimes with his calls in certain situations.

God so do I as can be supported by you all who are sick to death on my Ben Youngs/Daly hate fest.

[lostinwales]

It will be interested to see how Farrell approaches the ref in this game. Nigel Owens was pretty vocal on how Farrell shouldn't have been able to put forward his view quite as strongly this 6 nations. AWJ has obviously contributed massively in the past few years with his whines (Sinckler sticks in mind).

Will AWJ miss his boyfriend?

[nlpnlp]

Jones can be a very cautious selector in some cases and then jumps into the deep on others. He does tend to like players to be around training squads for an extended time before full caps. Perhaps the guys like Lawrence and Odogwu aren't really like to feature prominently until the Autumn.

Your right 7.5 and i think most of us get that. God even on here, between us there always someone calling for the next youngster, a 20 year old to replace the old and past it 22 year old.

Eddie has essentially adopted a policy of a country with a much smaller rugby player pool, like Australia and Japan for example. He is very faithful to those players and trusts them. Thats a very good thing...and we have seen they can get to World Cup finals and win competitions. To get in to the squad and team you have to prove to him that your good enough...

I guess we do get a bit restless with this when we see areas we think should be fixed...ie the midfield and full back, and especially when we see players who WE believe should be there...such as Lawrence etc

Funnily enough i do trust Eddie, and i expect a better performance again from the Italy one. But i do get frustrated sometimes with his calls in certain situations.

God so do I as can be supported by you all who are sick to death on my Ben Youngs/Daly hate fest.

I am not sure asking for a 26 year old current European player of the year to replace an unfit, out of form and poor performer is the same as asking for the next 20 year old youngster to be selected.

And ironically it is Eddie picking George Martin who is picking the newest flash young kid. Seems Eddie can have it both ways.

[lostinwales]

I don't think Martin would have been picked if Lawes had not been injured. As such I also rate his changes of getting on the pitch at all are not great unless there are injuries. Maybe for 5 minutes at the end.

This is no reflection on his qualities as a player, just his lack of experience and what we know of Eddie.

[No 7&1/2]

Jones can be a very cautious selector in some cases and then jumps into the deep on others. He does tend to like players to be around training squads for an extended time before full caps. Perhaps the guys like Lawrence and Odogwu aren't really like to feature prominently until the Autumn.

Your right 7.5 and i think most of us get that. God even on here, between us there always someone calling for the next youngster, a 20 year old to replace the old and past it 22 year old.

Eddie has essentially adopted a policy of a country with a much smaller rugby player pool, like Australia and Japan for example. He is very faithful to those players and trusts them. Thats a very good thing...and we have seen they can get to World Cup finals and win competitions. To get in to the squad and team you have to prove to him that your good enough...

I guess we do get a bit restless with this when we see areas we think should be fixed...ie the midfield and full back, and especially when we see players who WE believe should be there...such as Lawrence etc

Funnily enough i do trust Eddie, and i expect a better performance again from the Italy one. But i do get frustrated sometimes with his calls in certain situations.

God so do I as can be supported by you all who are sick to death on my Ben Youngs/Daly hate fest.

I am not sure asking for a 26 year old current European player of the year to replace an unfit, out of form and poor performer is the same as asking for the next 20 year old youngster to be selected.

And ironically it is Eddie picking George Martin who is picking the newest flash young kid.  Seems Eddie can have it both ways.

Assume you're directing that at someone else.

[No9]

It will be interested to see how Farrell approaches the ref in this game. Nigel Owens was pretty vocal on how Farrell shouldn't have been able to put forward his view quite as strongly this 6 nations. AWJ has obviously contributed massively in the past few years with his whines (Sinckler sticks in mind).

Will AWJ miss his boyfriend?

Would love to see you say that to his face.....

[No 7&1/2]

I don't think Martin would have been picked if Lawes had not been injured. As such I also rate his changes of getting on the pitch at all are not great unless there are injuries. Maybe for 5 minutes at the end.

This is no reflection on his qualities as a player, just his lack of experience and what we know of Eddie.

Will be interesting to see when players do get on. Youngs has been replaced pretty early in both games. Seems a bit of a waste though to have a load of forwards and not use them pretty early.

[LordDowlais]

Yeah, there has to be an element of trust, but I just think it has never really worked well for Wales to mention it. Obvious examples are Priestland and Cuthbert.

I am sure Davies is keen to play and that, but I just think it's all wrong. Poor passer off his left hand side, lost a bit of pace and not that great a kicker, given how much people go on about his left foot. Other than that, he's alright .

I think JD2 is there for his defence. Other than that, I cannot think why else ????

[mikey_dragon]

Yeah, there has to be an element of trust, but I just think it has never really worked well for Wales to mention it. Obvious examples are Priestland and Cuthbert.

I am sure Davies is keen to play and that, but I just think it's all wrong. Poor passer off his left hand side, lost a bit of pace and not that great a kicker, given how much people go on about his left foot. Other than that, he's alright .

I think JD2 is there for his defence. Other than that, I cannot think why else ????

Didn't defend well against Cardiff did he. So that leaves.... nothing?

[Rugby Fan]

Eddie has essentially adopted a policy of a country with a much smaller rugby player pool

Funnily enough, my main objection to appointing Jones as successor to Lancaster is that he would pick up and discard players too quickly. With England's rich resources, he would cycle through the Premiership, looking for people who would do what he asked, something he couldn't do that with Japan and Australia, I imagined him leaving behind a whole host of two or three cap wonders.

While Mike Brown says he believes he lost his place for talking back to Jones, and Danny Care might have been the same, Jones has shown far more loyalty to players than I expected. Rather than giving out two or three caps to see how a new guy goes, he has preferred to let an incumbent play through poor form, and has ended up flat out ignoring a whole host of players.

For me, one frustrating aspect is that I don't know what type of player Jones likes. he's often accused of ignoring players when there's been a big buzz about them in the press (Don Armand being one of the first) but that still doesn't help you guess who who does go for. If he really does igmore Premiership form, then how did Mark Wilson get in the team? When you've dropped Danny Care from the Youngs/Care duopoly, you might think Robson or Spencer would be a similar replacement, or Wiggy if you wanted control. Instead, we got...Heinz?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Yeah, there has to be an element of trust, but I just think it has never really worked well for Wales to mention it. Obvious examples are Priestland and Cuthbert.

I am sure Davies is keen to play and that, but I just think it's all wrong. Poor passer off his left hand side, lost a bit of pace and not that great a kicker, given how much people go on about his left foot. Other than that, he's alright .

I think JD2 is there for his defence. Other than that, I cannot think why else ????

Didn't defend well against Cardiff did he. So that leaves.... nothing?

He was key to the way Wales defended under Shaun Edwards, but that was at outside centre.

[mikey_dragon]

Anyone know why Will Rowlands is excluded? On recent form he should probably be starting. Paired with Beard would give us a size advantage, and an advantage in the lineout drives.

[Geordie]

Jones can be a very cautious selector in some cases and then jumps into the deep on others. He does tend to like players to be around training squads for an extended time before full caps. Perhaps the guys like Lawrence and Odogwu aren't really like to feature prominently until the Autumn.

Your right 7.5 and i think most of us get that. God even on here, between us there always someone calling for the next youngster, a 20 year old to replace the old and past it 22 year old.

Eddie has essentially adopted a policy of a country with a much smaller rugby player pool, like Australia and Japan for example. He is very faithful to those players and trusts them. Thats a very good thing...and we have seen they can get to World Cup finals and win competitions. To get in to the squad and team you have to prove to him that your good enough...

I guess we do get a bit restless with this when we see areas we think should be fixed...ie the midfield and full back, and especially when we see players who WE believe should be there...such as Lawrence etc

Funnily enough i do trust Eddie, and i expect a better performance again from the Italy one. But i do get frustrated sometimes with his calls in certain situations.

God so do I as can be supported by you all who are sick to death on my Ben Youngs/Daly hate fest.

I am not sure asking for a 26 year old current European player of the year to replace an unfit, out of form and poor performer is the same as asking for the next 20 year old youngster to be selected.

And ironically it is Eddie picking George Martin who is picking the newest flash young kid.  Seems Eddie can have it both ways.

i did say...certain things he does is frustrating.

Are you referring to Simmonds? If so...then surely he is an identikit player to Earl who was top try scorer last season. Would you pick both in the same side...probably not. Many people would argue Earl is a better choice than Simmonds in that regards.

As to Martin...well that one does confuse me slightly, i would have preferred Ted Hill or Dombrandt etc...but Martin has come through and had some impressive reviews from his few performances and clearly Jones (and the Tigers team) sees something in the young lad.
6'6 19st and very mobile...it'll be interesting to see how he progresses.

[Geordie]

Eddie has essentially adopted a policy of a country with a much smaller rugby player pool

For me, one frustrating aspect is that I don't know what type of player Jones likes.

yes he's impossible to guess. He wont replace like for like...throws a 7 at 8, puts a winger on the flank...

[No 7&1/2]

Anyone know why Will Rowlands is excluded? On recent form he should probably be starting. Paired with Beard would give us a size advantage, and an advantage in the lineout drives.

Not his form against Leicester! Did you see him bottle tackling Wiese.

[BamBam]

It will be interested to see how Farrell approaches the ref in this game. Nigel Owens was pretty vocal on how Farrell shouldn't have been able to put forward his view quite as strongly this 6 nations. AWJ has obviously contributed massively in the past few years with his whines (Sinckler sticks in mind).

Will AWJ miss his boyfriend?

Would love to see you say that to his face.....

Is 9 a shirt number or age? Is AWJ's dad bigger than LIW's too?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I just read that George North will win his 100th cap on Saturday, the youngest player in the world to do so.

[Cumbrian]

Jones can be a very cautious selector in some cases and then jumps into the deep on others. He does tend to like players to be around training squads for an extended time before full caps. Perhaps the guys like Lawrence and Odogwu aren't really like to feature prominently until the Autumn.

Your right 7.5 and i think most of us get that. God even on here, between us there always someone calling for the next youngster, a 20 year old to replace the old and past it 22 year old.

Eddie has essentially adopted a policy of a country with a much smaller rugby player pool, like Australia and Japan for example. He is very faithful to those players and trusts them. Thats a very good thing...and we have seen they can get to World Cup finals and win competitions. To get in to the squad and team you have to prove to him that your good enough...

I guess we do get a bit restless with this when we see areas we think should be fixed...ie the midfield and full back, and especially when we see players who WE believe should be there...such as Lawrence etc

Funnily enough i do trust Eddie, and i expect a better performance again from the Italy one. But i do get frustrated sometimes with his calls in certain situations.

God so do I as can be supported by you all who are sick to death on my Ben Youngs/Daly hate fest.

I am not sure asking for a 26 year old current European player of the year to replace an unfit, out of form and poor performer is the same as asking for the next 20 year old youngster to be selected.

And ironically it is Eddie picking George Martin who is picking the newest flash young kid.  Seems Eddie can have it both ways.

i did say...certain things he does is frustrating.

Are you referring to Simmonds? If so...then surely he is an identikit player to Earl who was top try scorer last season. Would you pick both in the same side...probably not. Many people would argue Earl is a better choice than Simmonds in that regards.

As to Martin...well that one does confuse me slightly, i would have preferred Ted Hill or Dombrandt etc...but Martin has come through and had some impressive reviews from his few performances and clearly Jones (and the Tigers team) sees something in the young lad.
6'6 19st and very mobile...it'll be interesting to see how he progresses.

I'll admit I don't know as much about him as I probably should, so I've been scouting around other forums and I noticed one Leicester fan compare him to a young (!) Maro Itoje, surely must be hyperbole? You could see Maro was going to be a special player from a long way off.

[mikey_dragon]

Anyone know why Will Rowlands is excluded? On recent form he should probably be starting. Paired with Beard would give us a size advantage, and an advantage in the lineout drives.

Not his form against Leicester! Did you see him bottle tackling Wiese.

I didn't see it, was it the one where Wasps got pasted? Might not have been the best game from Rowlands, but Jasper Wiese actually looks really good from what I've seen, and defence is usually a strong point for Rowlands.

[No 7&1/2]

He was particularly beastish in his carrying that day before he went for his early bath. I like Rowlands he's a solid player but it was quite embarrassing to see him actually duck out of the way!

[Gooseberry]

It will be interested to see how Farrell approaches the ref in this game. Nigel Owens was pretty vocal on how Farrell shouldn't have been able to put forward his view quite as strongly this 6 nations. AWJ has obviously contributed massively in the past few years with his whines (Sinckler sticks in mind).

Will AWJ miss his boyfriend?

Would love to see you say that to his face.....

Me too means lockdown will be over

[majesticimperialman]

I think a lot of England fans would pay to see an alternate team with more go forward in the centres.

Wales selection does seem odd though. How much rugby has JD2 actually played recently?

I do find it odd how some one like JD can make it back in to a team for a game as big as this with out having played much rugby, to prove his fitness and his worth of selection.

[Gooseberry]

I think a lot of England fans would pay to see an alternate team with more go forward in the centres.

Wales selection does seem odd though. How much rugby has JD2 actually played recently?

I do find it odd how some one like JD can make it back in to a team for a game as big as this with out having played much rugby, to prove his fitness and his worth of selection.

Coach needs to see how he will go obviously.

Jokes aside its the "someone like" that gives the clue. A senior player with a strong history of outperforming the other candidates and who can fulfill a specific role in the game plan.

It might turn out to be a bad selection but the reason why its made is pretty self evident. Hes a great player and Wales have struggled with their centers. They are also clearly wanting to take on englands expected physical approach.

[No9]

It will be interested to see how Farrell approaches the ref in this game. Nigel Owens was pretty vocal on how Farrell shouldn't have been able to put forward his view quite as strongly this 6 nations. AWJ has obviously contributed massively in the past few years with his whines (Sinckler sticks in mind).

Will AWJ miss his boyfriend?

Would love to see you say that to his face.....

Is 9 a shirt number or age? Is AWJ's dad bigger than LIW's too?

It was my shirt number, along time ago now. I dont know if Alun-Wyn's dad is bigger than Lost In Wales, as I dont know Lost's dad.

Hope that clears that up for you BamBam... Is your handle because you like the Flintstones or the noise your empty head makes when someone punches it...

[lostinwales]

Hay ho is on the bench though - so they have an alternative if things go wrong.

[No9]

I think a lot of England fans would pay to see an alternate team with more go forward in the centres.

Wales selection does seem odd though. How much rugby has JD2 actually played recently?

I do find it odd how some one like JD can make it back in to a team for a game as big as this with out having played much rugby, to prove his fitness and his worth of selection.

Coach needs to see how he will go obviously.

Jokes aside its the "someone like" that gives the clue. A senior player with a strong history of outperforming the other candidates and who can fulfill a specific role in the game plan.

It might turn out to be a bad selection but the reason why its made is pretty self evident. Hes a great player and Wales have struggled with their centers. They are also clearly wanting to take on englands expected physical approach.

Cant disagree with that... but I would have rather he was played at 13, put Halaholo at 12 and North on the bench to cover Centre and Wing.

But, hey.. I'm no fan of Pivac, but even he has more experience of this than I do. So, until he's proved right, I'll back him (albeit through gritted teeth).

[lostinwales]

It will be interested to see how Farrell approaches the ref in this game. Nigel Owens was pretty vocal on how Farrell shouldn't have been able to put forward his view quite as strongly this 6 nations. AWJ has obviously contributed massively in the past few years with his whines (Sinckler sticks in mind).

Will AWJ miss his boyfriend?

Would love to see you say that to his face.....

Is 9 a shirt number or age? Is AWJ's dad bigger than LIW's too?

It was my shirt number, along time ago now. I dont know if Alun-Wyn's dad is bigger than Lost In Wales, as I dont know Lost's dad.

Hope that clears that up for you BamBam... Is your handle because you like the Flintstones or the noise your empty head makes when someone punches it...

Unfortunately my dad died a few years back. Same for AWJ's

[No9]

Hay ho is on the bench though - so they have an alternative if things go wrong.

Yep.. lets hope he's (Pivac) is not too stuborn to change the game plan and bring him on early if things are going t!ts up, and not wait till we are chasing the game, as if we go more than 1 score behind and I reckon this England side will hold this in the forwards and will want to slug it out there.

[king_carlos]

I'll admit I don't know as much about him as I probably should, so I've been scouting around other forums and I noticed one Leicester fan compare him to a young (!) Maro Itoje, surely must be hyperbole?  You could see Maro was going to be a special player from a long way off.

A 20 stone lock who can lead the lineout and cover blindside due to their work rate will catch the eye.

Interestingly Martin has broken into Premiership rugby sooner than Maro. Sarries having such a strong set-up meant that Itoje was worked into their side gradually. He went from captaining the England U20s, to captaining the Sarries Anglo-Welsh Cup winning side whilst rotating in and out of Sarries Premiership team, then the season after that nailed down a starter berth.

Martin's defence and set-piece work is already very good and could stand up to test rugby in my opinion. His carrying is still a work in progress and like many young players he needs to work on being composed on the ball against the stronger defences in senior rugby.

It's earlier than I'd have liked Martin to be in the 23 but for a long time England fans have wanted a lock capable of doing the set-piece stuff like Kruis but throwing his weight around in the loose like the Boks locks can. George Martin and Joel Kpoku are two locks in the age grade sides who I've thought might be able to do that with more development and Premiership game time.

[No9]

It will be interested to see how Farrell approaches the ref in this game. Nigel Owens was pretty vocal on how Farrell shouldn't have been able to put forward his view quite as strongly this 6 nations. AWJ has obviously contributed massively in the past few years with his whines (Sinckler sticks in mind).

Will AWJ miss his boyfriend?

Would love to see you say that to his face.....

Is 9 a shirt number or age? Is AWJ's dad bigger than LIW's too?

It was my shirt number, along time ago now. I dont know if Alun-Wyn's dad is bigger than Lost In Wales, as I dont know Lost's dad.

Hope that clears that up for you BamBam... Is your handle because you like the Flintstones or the noise your empty head makes when someone punches it...

Unfortunately my dad died a few years back. Same for AWJ's

Commiserations Lost...

[lostinwales]

It will be interested to see how Farrell approaches the ref in this game. Nigel Owens was pretty vocal on how Farrell shouldn't have been able to put forward his view quite as strongly this 6 nations. AWJ has obviously contributed massively in the past few years with his whines (Sinckler sticks in mind).

Will AWJ miss his boyfriend?

Would love to see you say that to his face.....

Is 9 a shirt number or age? Is AWJ's dad bigger than LIW's too?

It was my shirt number, along time ago now. I dont know if Alun-Wyn's dad is bigger than Lost In Wales, as I dont know Lost's dad.

Hope that clears that up for you BamBam... Is your handle because you like the Flintstones or the noise your empty head makes when someone punches it...

Unfortunately my dad died a few years back. Same for AWJ's

Commiserations Lost...

No worries mate, Unfortunately it happens to us all at some point, and being a 50yr old orphan is a lot easier than being a 15yr old one.

[whatahitson]

England look set up to kick and Wales look set up to run. I back England by 10+ points. North and Davies are good players but if the game doesn't go their way look at the kicking options England have it could be a long afternoon and with Sheedy on the bench he's not much of a kicker either.

[cb]

Perhaps changing the topic, we all tend to moan at selection (both English and Welsh) and ultimately Jones has finally responsibility so it should be his decision but the English selection is a bit of ground-hog day choice with the only changes due to injury.

Against Italy, LCD was my choice for MoM, but now returns to the bench.  With only two backs on the bench there is not much room to step up and bring on different players.  There is not a lot of X factor in the team at present - certainly as regards form.

England will have to play very well to win this one which they may be capable of but will really need to raise their game.

[hugehandoff]

Winning in Wales is hard enough for England and based on recent performances I cannot see anything other than another home win. The return of key men in Jonathan Davies, Liam Williams and Josh Adams with Biggar pulling the strings and a very good back row smashing England backwards looks a tough one for us to overcome. A key factor could be the absence of the crowd as the noise levels are normally deafening against England.

AWJ match up with Itoje could be crucial. No doubt Wales will try to wind up England to get penalties and yellow cards and it will be interesting to see if England bite? I am very glad this match is on and I just hope that both sides treat us to a decent game as this lockdown is driving me nuts! Bring on some entertainment please with 15 players on both sides at the end of the match.

[chris_501]

Anyone know why Will Rowlands is excluded? On recent form he should probably be starting. Paired with Beard would give us a size advantage, and an advantage in the lineout drives.

Not his form against Leicester! Did you see him bottle tackling Wiese.

I didn't see it, was it the one where Wasps got pasted? Might not have been the best game from Rowlands, but Jasper Wiese actually looks really good from what I've seen, and defence is usually a strong point for Rowlands.

Rowlands has looked workmanlike for me, he’s added to the Welsh stock of second rows, but hasn’t made the impression Hill, Ball and Beard have at various stages of their Welsh careers. I actually had Hill as a dark horse for the Lions at the start of the year, 2 years against England he was fantastic.

Wales’ 9,10 and 12 are all under a bit of pressure. Hardy is starting his first big game for Wales, it’s very different to coming off the bench. Biggar and JD2 are needing to bring out one of their world class performances that we haven’t seen from either recently. Luckily there are direct replacements on the bench if they are struggling.

[Cumbrian]

I'll admit I don't know as much about him as I probably should, so I've been scouting around other forums and I noticed one Leicester fan compare him to a young (!) Maro Itoje, surely must be hyperbole?  You could see Maro was going to be a special player from a long way off.

A 20 stone lock who can lead the lineout and cover blindside due to their work rate will catch the eye.

Interestingly Martin has broken into Premiership rugby sooner than Maro. Sarries having such a strong set-up meant that Itoje was worked into their side gradually. He went from captaining the England U20s, to captaining the Sarries Anglo-Welsh Cup winning side whilst rotating in and out of Sarries Premiership team, then the season after that nailed down a starter berth.

Martin's defence and set-piece work is already very good and could stand up to test rugby in my opinion. His carrying is still a work in progress and like many young players he needs to work on being composed on the ball against the stronger defences in senior rugby.

It's earlier than I'd have liked Martin to be in the 23 but for a long time England fans have wanted a lock capable of doing the set-piece stuff like Kruis but throwing his weight around in the loose like the Boks locks can. George Martin and Joel Kpoku are two locks in the age grade sides who I've thought might be able to do that with more development and Premiership game time.

Fair play, sounds promising. Do you think he will settle at lock long term? Would be good to have some ready made replacements when Lawes, Launchbury ride off into the sunset. As you say it would be good to have some more heft in the second row.

There are so many good young English players around at the moment (in certain positions) that we would have killed for in the lean years. I was watching Will Evans for Quins at the weekend, he is a really superb player and during the '6.5 years' we would have been begging to get him into the squad (like Tom Rees). Now we have him, Willis and Ben Curry who can't get near the team/squad, they could have made a big difference back then.

[TightHEAD]

Target North and JD2. Both slow and fragile.

Strike first, strike hard, no mercy.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'll admit I don't know as much about him as I probably should, so I've been scouting around other forums and I noticed one Leicester fan compare him to a young (!) Maro Itoje, surely must be hyperbole?  You could see Maro was going to be a special player from a long way off.

A 20 stone lock who can lead the lineout and cover blindside due to their work rate will catch the eye.

Interestingly Martin has broken into Premiership rugby sooner than Maro. Sarries having such a strong set-up meant that Itoje was worked into their side gradually. He went from captaining the England U20s, to captaining the Sarries Anglo-Welsh Cup winning side whilst rotating in and out of Sarries Premiership team, then the season after that nailed down a starter berth.

Martin's defence and set-piece work is already very good and could stand up to test rugby in my opinion. His carrying is still a work in progress and like many young players he needs to work on being composed on the ball against the stronger defences in senior rugby.

It's earlier than I'd have liked Martin to be in the 23 but for a long time England fans have wanted a lock capable of doing the set-piece stuff like Kruis but throwing his weight around in the loose like the Boks locks can. George Martin and Joel Kpoku are two locks in the age grade sides who I've thought might be able to do that with more development and Premiership game time.

Fair play, sounds promising.  Do you think he will settle at lock long term?  Would be good to have some ready made replacements when Lawes, Launchbury ride off into the sunset.  As you say it would be good to have some more heft in the second row.  

There are so many good young English players around at the moment (in certain positions) that we would have killed for in the lean years.  I was watching Will Evans for Quins at the weekend, he is a really superb player and during the '6.5 years' we would have been begging to get him into the squad (like Tom Rees).  Now we have him, Willis and Ben Curry who can't get near the team/squad, they could have made a big difference back then.

There's been a buzz about Martin since he was 17 and rampaging around for the academy team. He should have been in (and starting) for the England under 20s 6N last season at 18 but unfortunately got injured and missed the tournament. He's a lock and has played there once or twice for Tigers but as he's young and still gaining experience has been blindside as understudy to Liebenburg. 

As Carlos says his set piece work is good and his tackle rate is outstanding. He's mobile which means Borthwick can slot him into 6 and get his third lineout jumper into the side (Liebenburg our 6 takes more lineouts than any other jumper at Tigers by a long way). In the academy he was virtually another 8 crashing through tackles and offloading but he's not managed to being that to senior rugby though he happily crashes it up and makes small yards for the team. He's a good man for the charge down as well. I wouldn't compare him to Itoje though he's not got the same breakdown impact and I'm not sure Itoje makes as many tackles.

I fully expect Martin to be wearing the Tigers 4 shirt for the next decade and a half. Possibly with Henderson wearing 5. Young Ilione the blindside is another one that will be making waves early on a couple of years because he is a 6 that does do a passable impression of Maro but not quite as big. If the club can keep him away from his medical studies enough to play anyway.

[Sgt_Pooly]

I've seen Martin a few times this season (had to actually Google if he definitely played) and he didn't stand out.

A very odd selection from Jones, yet again. He may turn out to be amazing, but is he currently better than 10/20 backrow options we have lined up?........no he isn't.

[chris_501]

A very Eddie Jones selection. I’m far happier seeing Martin on the bench than Hughes, Ewers, Armand, Simmonds, Dombrandt, Ludlam, Tom Willis, Shields, Mercer, Hill ......

[No 7&1/2]

Whowould you have if you were picking a flanker to come into the squad Pooly? I'm at the level that there are a few people around who would be ok cover but no one crying out for selection. From that Martin has age on his side. Ludlam? Ludlow maybe?

[Sgt_Pooly]

Really? I'd prefer most of those options if I'm honest and quite a few more.

[No 7&1/2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56204421

"At times he [Jones] has targeted players in our team," said Eddie Jones.

"We've spoken about him and we understand what he'll be trying to do."

Wales are unbeaten with their narrow wins against Ireland and Scotland marked by red cards for respective forwards Peter O'Mahony and Zander Fagerson.

That leaves Wayne Pivac's side seeking a Triple Crown against England, whose coach urged his players to remain calm in the face of a team led by 35-year-old British and Irish Lion Jones.

"It's just about making sure we maintain our composure and our control," said Jones."

Expect this to come out and Wales to start scuffles the 2nd there is a strong turnover or a good English scrum. Its been a good tactic the last few years.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Whowould you have if you were picking a flanker to come into the squad Pooly? I'm at the level that there are a few people around who would be ok cover but no one crying out for selection. From that Martin has age on his side. Ludlam? Ludlow maybe?

Better backrow options? Take your pic pal.

Dombrandt, Hill, Ludlam, Ludlow, Curry etc. If looking at a youngster, I'd be tempted with the lad at Wasps, Barbury? A very bizarre selection, I really don't see the idea behind it.

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