England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Knight thinks they won't enforce the follow on. I'm not so sure.

Still two wickets needed anyway. 22 runs.

As I say I don't mind spinning pitches. I do think this one was a bit extreme : had England batted first I doubt they'd have made 329 ; but they might have made 220 and that would probably have made them favourites.
But essentially I agree :India are in this position because they've bowled a lot better and three or four batsmen played innings that England have not come near to matching. Credit where it is due...

Does nobody think Wood might be considered ? Did bowl rather well in Sri Lanka and should be fresh...

Agree either Woakes or Bess must fill number eight spot. Batting anyone's guess.

I'd agree with those teams. Personally I'd pick Bairstow for the day-nighter even with the seamers more prominent. He has his weaknesses but has still scored centuries against SA (Morkel and Rabada), NZ (Boult, Southee, Wagner) and Australia (Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins). I can't see Jonny remedying his game to suddenly average over 40 in Tests at this stage but I'd take someone mid-thirties in the short term given our top order struggles. The pitch will definitely turn as well so playing spin will still be vital. Once the lacquer on the pink ball goes it usually does nowt and wont reverse after all.

I'd hope that Wood will be fit to contend for T4 as he and Anderson are the best reverse swing exponents England have. Ideally I'd be hoping for Wood and one of Jimmy/Broad to play T4 alongside Bess and Leach.

Jof can be lethal when fresh so it would be great if he could go at 100% for T3 with the pink ball then look to bring Wood in for T4.

alfie wrote:Does nobody think Wood might be considered ? Did bowl rather well in Sri Lanka and should be fresh...

Agree either Woakes or Bess must fill number eight spot.  Batting anyone's guess.

With the pink ball unlikely to reverse swing I'd personally look to save Wood for T4. For conventional swing I can see why they would favour Anderson, Archer, Woakes and Broad.

The pink ball usually swings conventionally early and for longer than the red ball due to the extra lacquer. Once that's gone that's it though from my understanding. It's difficult to shine one side particularly well so it will do nothing once the lacquer is gone. We will need Leach to bowl better in the first innings than his stats show he usually does.

Cricinfo listing this as England's probable team: 1 Dom Sibley, 2 Zak Crawley, 3 Jonny Bairstow, 4 Joe Root (capt), 5 Ben Stokes, 6 Ollie Pope, 7 Ben Foakes (wk), 8 Dom Bess/Chris Woakes, 9 Jofra Archer, 10 Jack Leach, 11 James Anderson

As long as the 8 is Woakes, I'm very happy with that.

India's last selection wrangle is over Yadav or Siraj, essentially three spinners or three seamers, as they strive to strike the right balance. Apparently Kohli's gone 34 innings without hitting an international century, his longest such streak - overdue for one, then?

Pitch is expected to have plenty of grass, possible sharp turn will only develop later on in the test. England seem to have a really upbeat and positive mentality for this, Anderson talking up the pink SG ball like one that's very similar to a Dukes.

Got a good feeling about this one from an England perspective, provided they pick Woakes not Bess, and not just because of the pleasant later start. Expecting England's seamers, especially Anderson, to dominate this test and win (at 3/1 too).

Cricinfo's team predictions are usually pretty good. With batsman in particular journalists at the ground tend to get a good idea the day before from final practice sessions.

India looks a lot better balanced with Umesh Yadav fit. He has developed into a very good bowler in India averaging 24.5 with a strike rate of 45.7, impressive stats.

All of India's top 6 have fifty plus scores so far this series so it's fair to say they are in decent nick despite losing T1.

I'm not optimistic enough to think England will dominate but I do think it will be a much better performance than T2. Jimmy makes a world of difference to the side in these conditions. At the end of the day it will still spin though and with Ashwin bowling well the England batsman will need to play him much better.

The first Test showed that England (especially Root) can make runs against moderate spin, but struggle once there's real turn and bounce, and should be more comfortable opening against seam / pace. OK, still need to play Ashwin better generally, but let's just accept that he's a very good bowler especially in home conditions.

Also, if the ball does swing, Anderson and Woakes could be a handful, so could have India at say 100-4. Certainly would go for the extra seamer unless the wicket is expected to turn square from the start. (and we finally get a Stokes, Foakes and Woakes lineup)

Optimistic that this will at least be a more competitive than the second test.

I think there still being uncertainty about the second spinner or third seamer a day out sums up why England wanted Moeen to stay on for T3 and T4.

I'll precursor this by saying that I've stated many many times I do not view Mo as a top 7 batsman in Tests and wouldn't have picked him as such myself. If he was still in India though then I reckon England seriously be considering leaving out a batsman, shunting Root/Stokes/Pope/Foakes up a spot, Moeen at 7 and Woakes at 8. That way they could mitigate uncertainty about he pitch by having two spinners and three front line seamers.

I wouldn't want that fragile a batting order given Mo's up and (mostly) down Test fortunes with the bat, but I think it would have been a consideration for the coaches and Root. Mo at 7 and Woakes at 8 shouldn't be weaker on paper than Axar and Ashwin. The top 6's are a different matter though hence why I wouldn't have liked England going that route.

We could really do with Stokes being able to bowl a decent number of overs in the next two Tests to mitigate the worries about balancing the side.

I am very intrigued to see how the pink ball plays in India. Only the second ever D/N Test there - at a different ground and at a totally different time of year to the first one. So no real reference point.

I can’t see England making the same mistake they did in Australia in D/N game, when they won the toss and chose to field expecting the pink ball to really hoop. Australia ended up with 440! The fact this wicket should take a lot of spin, especially later on, should make the decision at the toss a no brainer. The formula remains the same - win the toss, bat and bat big.

The quirks of the pink ball Tests means you always want to be bowling in those twilight conditions, when the light first starts to come in. Whoever manages those periods best, both with bat and ball, probably decides the game.

Some interesting stats from the Telegraph:

In day-night Tests, batsmen average 23 runs in the first session and 27 in the last session, but this soars to 32 in the middle session. And since the inaugural day-night Test at Adelaide in 2015, spinners average 33.8 in both day and day-night Tests. But, benefiting from the pink ball offering greater new-ball swing and the hazardous twilight period, seamers average just 24.9 in day-night Tests, compared to 29.5 in day Tests in the same time - hence why England must not play Bess and Leach, but back their seamers to do the job.

Agreed on backing the seamers, especially as it's our strength Duty.

As JD says this being a new ground, new wicket and new time of year for D-N Tests it is a completely new scenario though. Which makes it a really intriguing match.

Many of England's batsman do have experience of sometimes batting well whilst only averaging around 30 so those tough averages figures against seam in D-N Tests should be right in their area of expertise! 

Some interesting stats - and views - above.  Truth is I like most am a little unsure as to how this day/night match in India is going to play out.  Sample sizes are so small still it is hard to definitively state too much about pink ball games.

Both these teams have fairly recent horror experiences in d/n matches : England 58 in NZ , India 36 in Australia. But the odd thing about those scores is that they both came in the afternoons not the "dreaded" night sessions...so not sure what that proves.

You'd think England are more likely to go with an extra seamer - not least because it gives them more pace variety (Anderson Woakes Archer/Stone) ; but I wouldn't rule out the two and two option (assuming Stokes is actually up for a proper bowling job) .  Pace bowlers may get more help than usual ; but it will surely spin at some point and it may be they'll need the extra spinner more than an extra quick if the second innings proves less receptive to early swing. (Certainly the apparent late moves to perhaps keep Moeen around hint at a desire to have more spin options available - though of course that was before we had any idea what the pitch would look like) Woakes' record overseas is not encouraging ; but I do think he has improved. Hard to see how Broad would fit in unless they want to go with Bess at eight ...which would mean no outright fast option. I am still sat on fence so will leave it to Joe & co...

Batting I'd assume Lawrence is off back to nets after a useful introduction to the level which may well pay dividends later on ; so top three looks like Sibley plus two from Burns Bairstow Crawley.

England playing cards close to chest at present (annoyingly for Tipping Competition entrants !) so whatever XI they come up with will probably not totally shock anyone.

Indian selection looks to revolve around one bowling spot (Bumrah obviously back in for Siraj) ; with the last choice being who replaces Kuldeep : Sundar (to lengthen the batting) or a third seamer -  or I guess they could still keep Kuldeep. I hear Hardik is also seen as a chance...

Toss may not actually matter all that much. Day/night results overall do not seem to favour either batting first or second - though this is of course only the second such match staged in India. Sure it will spin more as the game progresses ; but if one team establishes an early advantage this may not be the game decider one might normally expect.

Time suits you fellows up north a lot better...going to be a late night for me but hey I am not getting up early tomorrow (joys of retirement ) : on with the show...

KP_fan wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

For the third test, as mentioned before, I hope England only play the one front-line spinner !

I see you too have given up on Bess, even on rank turner

https://twitter.com/murgersb/status/1362691230023434246

This is the strip on 19feb 10am under which lies the pitch for the game on 24th Feb

And here come out the pitch on 24Feb from underneath the strip

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The little grass 2 to 3 mm is inside the popping crease and on full yorker length

rest of the pitch is barren...there seems to be a tinge of black soil rolled  with some blades of dead-dry grass on top of the orange...to ensure pitch doesn't crumble into powder too soon.
It will turn for sure from D1

I wonder if any team can leave out the second spinner after seeing this

The second D/N test in India. Looking forward to it...
Hope the wicket is a lively one where the batsmen will have to earn their pay and not a road. Don't mind if it spins or seams, the ball should always be a thing of challenge to the bat... India has the pace bowling to make use of helpful conditions. Their batsmen will have to show application and weather the tough periods and do the job for the team.

India seamer Ishant Sharma, who crossed the 300 wicket mark during the series, will be playing his hundredth test match. An eventful journey for Ishant, who was full of potential when he burst on to the seen as an 18 year old. In his 4th test he had Ricky Ponting all at sea, Steve Waugh thought he would be the next best thing in Indian cricket. It took years for Ishant to develop into the kind of bowler he could have become, a journey full of swings and roundabouts, disappointments, but in the last 4 to 5 years or so, Ishant seems to have understood his bowling better and evolved into a dependable, consistent performer... He's still behind Jasprit Bumrah and Mohammed Shami in the pecking order, but Ishant has earned respect from all, including yours truly, not his biggest fan over the years...

msp83 wrote:India seamer Ishant Sharma, who crossed the 300 wicket mark during the series, will be playing his hundredth test match. An eventful journey for Ishant, who was full of potential when he burst on to the seen as an 18 year old. In his 4th test he had Ricky Ponting all at sea, Steve Waugh thought he would be the next best thing in Indian cricket. It took years for Ishant to develop into the kind of bowler he could have become, a journey full of swings and roundabouts, disappointments, but in the last 4 to 5 years or so, Ishant seems to have understood his bowling better and evolved into a dependable, consistent performer... He's still behind Jasprit Bumrah and Mohammed Shami in the pecking order, but Ishant has earned respect from all, including yours truly, not his biggest fan over the years...

Ishant started brilliantly under an aggressive captain......Kumble...who encouraged him to bowl fast and take wickets.
The came the line-lnegth, medium pace dark test match era under Dhoni where Ishant was asked to cut pace and bowl at 130kph overs after overs....and that confused and killed the potency of Ishant for better part of his career.
Then came Kohli insisting on pace...and Ishant started bowling at 140kph again......and has been a generally potent bowler since

England win the toss and bat first

Sibley
Crawley
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Archer
Leach
Broad
Anderson

I do hope they’ve judged this pitch correctly going with only the one spinner...

England win the toss and bat. England have picked Broad, not Woakes or Bess, which means the tail is long. Crawley, Bairstow and Archer also come in as anticipated.

V. happy with that selection.  Good toss to win too.

India have gone the three spinner route with Siraj missing out, but it's Sundar/Patel/Ashwin as the spinners, no room for Yadav.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:England win the toss and bat first

Sibley
Crawley
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Archer
Leach
Broad
Anderson

I do hope they’ve judged this pitch correctly going with only the one seamer....

India meanwhile pick three spinners...(I fear England have turned up to a black tie event in a Hawaiian shirt here)

They've both played to their strengths.

England looking at the pink ball and how much it moves, and making that their weapon.

India looking at England's batting versus spin, and targeting that. I'm sure they would have preferred to have England batting last mind

I'm delighted, personally. Think England have been brave and got it right. Anderson and Broad with a pink ball is going to be carnage.

And Siraj isn't much cop anyway, so I can see why India have travelled down the three spinner route.

This would be an excellent time for Archer to contribute a half-decent test innings, with him possibly batting at 8.

One other note - according to Cricinfo, the interval between session one and two is only twenty minutes long (not the usual forty) so don't be caught out.

Come on, England, bat well and seize the day.

I don't think I agree with Roots decision to bat there, with only one spinner I don't think you want to bowling in the fourth innings.

I'm happy with that selection from England. The long tail is a risk but the Anderson and Broad partnership is a great one to call on for such an important game. I wouldn't usually want that tail but for a day-night Test with some unknowns I like the experience.

A good toss to win, obviously. Sometimes when a pitch has a significant amount of grass trimmed off it just before the game it can be a bit slow to start. It looks dry so I'd expect it to spin but if there isn't quite the same bounce there it can be much easier to play that turn. Baking in the heat it may well speed up as the Test goes on.

If it is a bit slower then Anderson and Broad's ability to tie up an end with excellent economy rates could be very valuable.

There are so many unknowns with the new ground, wicket and pink ball. India go for three spinners and England three seamers. Lots to look forward to.

Down to Sibley and Crawley now. As Guildford would say you can't win a match in the opening session when batting first but you can certainly go a fair way to losing one!

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:England win the toss and bat first

Sibley
Crawley
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes
Archer
Leach
Broad
Anderson

I do hope they’ve judged this pitch correctly going with only the one seamer....

Bit harsh on Broad and Archer

Id see it as a bit of a play to your strengths side. The four best bowlers have been picked regardless of type, without even consideration for the batting in the tail. The onus is on the batsmen to score runs which is exactly right. I wouldn't have been adverse to Woakes getting Broads spot, but ultimately Broad has more potential to rip through India. One spinner could be seen as a gamble, especially as they are now batting first, but this set up allows them to get at India in the first innings. If they'd lost the toss the two spinner option might've looked very dodgy and given India a stronger chance of batting them out of the game.

What I like is it seems theyve picked a side with an eye on winning, rather than on avoiding disaster and hedging their bets.

Lots of pressure on that top seven to deliver a lot more with the bat than they have n the past 3 innings. Huge game for Crawley. Bairstow coming in from the cold. Popes excuses for finding his way back into cricket drying up now, so hopefully he can make a statement innings ...Lawrence and now Bairstow could feel they've been chucked under the bus in the cursed spot whilst he despite being the more senior test player hides down the order. There is a lot of potential in the batting, but also a lot of players short of form and/or recent games.

Winning the toss definitely improves Englands chances in the test. Time to make the best of that chance. If they get bowled out for under 300 its not leaving out Bess thats the problem.

Soul Requiem wrote:I don't think I agree with Roots decision to bat there, with only one spinner I don't think you want to bowling in the fourth innings.

You definitely don't want to be batting last against Ashwin and Axar either to be fair. The right decision for me but I do know what you mean with the three seamers.

Jeez those outfits they've got Swann and Sunny in. I wonder if it was the only way to distract from their punditry.

It's a good toss to lose.....pitch will spin as much today in my view as it would spin tomorrow
However Indian batting will get a chance to gauge the pitch and how they should bat seeing their bowlers bowl and Eng bat.

The mystical monkey of Pink ball will be de-mystified also today....i.e how it behaves when new and also when lights are on..
India picked the perfect -11...it takes Kohli generally 3 attempts to get the 11 right

king_carlos wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:I don't think I agree with Roots decision to bat there, with only one spinner I don't think you want to bowling in the fourth innings.

You definitely don't want to be batting last against Ashwin and Axar either to be fair. The right decision for me but I do know what you mean with the three seamers.

My logic behind is it make best use of your seamers in the first innings, go big against a spin heavy attack and take the fourth innings out of the match.

king_carlos wrote:Jeez those outfits they've got Swann and Sunny in. I wonder if it was the only way to distract from their punditry.

Swann's first "banter" fell on deaf ears...this might be a test to have the comms on low

Important toss for England to win. Gives them the best chance... Bat first, bat big, and bat India out of the game would be the templet. The pitch does seem like one with some life in it though for bowlers, and England do have a lower order that is not been among their strongest in recent times.

Hmm. India as I expected . Bat down to nine now.

England have a tail that starts at eight (!) so let us hope Broad is due one of his occasional boundary hitting cameos. Bowling fair enough as long as there is something there for the seamers throughout.

Burns overlooked...shortage of left handers in the England order now.

England selection might be seen as brave or foolhardy... Kind of depends on the result.

Think whoever won the toss was going to bat but don't think it will matter as much as the last two games. We will have a better idea soon I guess.

Bhogle, Gavaskar and Swann on comms first up.

Pity we can't mute them and keep the sound at the ground.

That ball swung in, pitched and then swung away.

Soul Requiem wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:I don't think I agree with Roots decision to bat there, with only one spinner I don't think you want to bowling in the fourth innings.

You definitely don't want to be batting last against Ashwin and Axar either to be fair. The right decision for me but I do know what you mean with the three seamers.

My logic behind is it make best use of your seamers in the first innings, go big against a spin heavy attack and take the fourth innings out of the match.

I see both your points. Which is one reason I say the toss may not be so important this time. Either choice could pay off or damn you , depending how well you play. No totally obvious "right decision" .

Certainly first ball had some carry !

nothing by way of seam movement for the bowlers so far contrary to what commentators are saying
Though the last ball from Bumrah reversed big time i think ( not conventional swing)

tame dismissal of sibley...hung his bat out to a straight delivery and catching practise for Rohit

Duty281 wrote:Bhogle, Gavaskar and Swann on comms first up.

Pity we can't mute them and keep the sound at the ground.

I've got the TMS stuff on in the back ground synced up to the C4 coverage!

Nice start for Ishant...less so Sibley.

Hope YJB is acclimatised...

KP_fan wrote:nothing by way of seam movement for the bowlers so far contrary to what commentators are saying
Though the last ball from Bumrah reversed big time i think ( not conventional swing)

I'm not sure it's possible for the pink ball to reverse this early. The amount of lacquer on the ball means that both sides stay shiny for a fair while.

Ah Dom. England could have done with him absorbing the pressure from Bumrah and Ishant.

Very good ball from Sharma. A few going in towards the batsman, then gets one to hold its line, as Sibley plays for the movement. Top bowling and an early test for Bairstow.

Two no-balls already! In 35 degree heat you don't want to bowl any more than you have to!

2 no-balls already for the India count. Going for a series record it seems!

king_carlos wrote:

KP_fan wrote:nothing by way of seam movement for the bowlers so far contrary to what commentators are saying
Though the last ball from Bumrah reversed big time i think ( not conventional swing)

I'm not sure it's possible for the pink ball to reverse this early. The amount of lacquer on the ball means that both sides stay shiny for a fair while.

Ah Dom. England could have done with him absorbing the pressure from Bumrah and Ishant.

In the 2008 series that msp referred to where Ishant was deemed a debuting sensation having Aussi top order in trouble
Zak and Ishant were reversing in 4th over

i hope they show a close view of the ball...convetional swing doesn't swing in so late as Bumrah's ball did

Ishant has been good so far - except for the no balls. Bit lucky for him the one ball in between his oversteps was the one that found the edge.

Ball is certainly moving about a bit.

Forward defensive for four. The outfield is lightning.

Anderson and Broad will be very excited seeing what this new ball is doing.

Englands bowlers will be happy to see this at least

ultraedge relives Pant of the guilt that commentators would have put him under

Interesting selection calls from both teams. Bumrah was expected to be back after being rested for the last game, but going in with 3 spinners and even then no place for Kuldeep again is an interesting call. Firstly no Pandya, though his selection in the team itself was probably with this game in mind. And when they decided that Kuldeep is not close to his A game, they opted to bring Washington back, and not the fit again Umesh who is a much better bowler at home than away.
England on the other hand, going in with that lower order, and just the one spinner, possibly playing to their strength, and Root in any case was as good as any of their other spinners so far. But that lower order is one of the weakest from England in recent time.

ball showing shades of reverse otherwise....nothing for seamers yet
Time to rest Ishant and bring in Ashwin next over

KP_fan wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

KP_fan wrote:nothing by way of seam movement for the bowlers so far contrary to what commentators are saying
Though the last ball from Bumrah reversed big time i think ( not conventional swing)

I'm not sure it's possible for the pink ball to reverse this early. The amount of lacquer on the ball means that both sides stay shiny for a fair while.

Ah Dom. England could have done with him absorbing the pressure from Bumrah and Ishant.

In the 2008 series that msp referred to where Ishant was deemed a debuting sensation having Aussi top order in trouble
Zak and Ishant were reversing in 4th over

i hope they show a close view of the ball...convetional swing doesn't swing in so late as Bumrah's ball did

The red ball loses it's lacquer much quicker than the pink ball though by my understanding, so it will reverse much earlier. Even in England the attacks including Flintoff and Jones had balls reversing after 13 or 14 overs so it is definitely possible for the red ball to reverse early. I've never seen it with the pink ball though so that would be new. Anderson in the build said that the pink balls in the nets were swinging conventionally a lot but not reversing much at all.

The pink ball has a 3 or 4 extra coats of lacquer on it to keep it's visibility so if it's already lost that then we could be in for frequent ball changes!

Corking stuff from Crawley, much needed confidence back for him and England.