SILLY SEASON TRANSFER RUMOURS 20/21

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mikey_dragon wrote:

y ddraig goch wrote:Jac Morgan is leaving the Scarlets for the Ospreys to go and learn his trade off Tipuric. Big loss for the Scarlets but makes sense with Dan Davies, Josh Macelod, and James Davies still on the books. Jac looks like a future Welsh international so it might be a good move for Wales in the long run with the Ospreys finally starting to live up to their potential with a return to the top level of Europe given the players on their books.

Davis and Davies aren’t that good, McCleod is very good but has awful luck with injuries lately. Scarlets’ supporters can’t see why Jac is being let go. Boyde was another good 7 that they let go.

Ospreys are a long way off their potential if last night is anything to go by.

He isn't 'being let go', he's apparently an Ospreys fan and wants to leave despite the offer on the table.
Considering the conditions, the young players in key positions, and the momentum killing refereeing performance (for both sides), Ospreys came out of it with a victory which is what they needed to help secure champions cup rugby next season.
I think it would be better to judge them as of next season when, if all the murmurs are to be believed, we will have a higher proportion of games played with full strength sides.

I thought North was mostly very good at 13 when I've seen him there.

Adams and LZR are such excellent and contrasting wings that I wouldn't shift Adams. Add in Sanjay being a genuinely world class 15 at his best and that's a fantastic first choice back three. I wouldn't split them up.

Ioan Lloyd looks a real talent as well.

Not sure North is on the decline. As a winger, perhaps. But as a 13 he’s just coming into his own. It’s injury that’s seen him off the scene lately, not form. 30 isn’t that old in international terms. Certainly not a whipper snapper anymore, but a couple of years left at the top yet, injuries permitting.

On the Tompkins chat, I seem to remember a number of posts telling us (Wales) that we were using him all wrong at 13 and that 12 is his position!

“If Clark played for Wales it'd be a depressing indictment of the centres coming through the regions.”

Well yes, it is exactly that. North is injured. Nobody else in over a decade has stepped up to replace Roberts, Davies and Scott Williams. I can’t think of anyone playing right now who has come through at the regions and can make the step up (I’m sure a certain someone will soon swoop in and list a bunch of average centres, bore off).

We will cap Michael Collins for sure. He’s had ups and downs since arriving here but he is a very good player. Clark might get a cap by default but won’t be a mainstay if what you all say is true. Tompkins will be back in - I prefer him at 12 for Wales if we are starting with Biggar.

I think we do have a class back 3. McNicholl also had a great autumn so that’s promising. Ioan Lloyd is a cracker, and covers 10 and 15. There’s some good players scattered about but a mixture of regional ‘form’ and Pivac’s madness should see Wales finish 5th.

As this is the rumour thread, how much substance in Fekitoa to Munster? I’ve seen a couple outlets say it now.

mikey_dragon wrote:As this is the rumour thread, how much substance in Fekitoa to Munster? I’ve seen a couple outlets say it now.

Who knows, it's a rumour doing the rounds. I guess we'll find out soon whether it's his agent trying to get cash out of Wasps or a sign Wasps are unloaded the expensive Kiwis to beat the salary reduction. Wasps haven't exactly got lots of centres though so you'd imagine they'd be in the market.

Munster have also been linked with Dom Morris so looks like they are investigating centre options.

Munster are losing Snyman and de Allende so will have room for non-Irish qualified players, plus need a carrying centre to replace de Allende. If Munster have the cash to spend Fekitoa would make a lot of sense. Even playing for Tonga his availability (injury permitting) should be pretty good for a player of his quality.

The private investment body that bankrolled Snyman and de Allende apparently didn't want to fund an extension for Snyman in particular despite van Graan wanting to renew both. This was rumoured to be a part of van Graan leaving.

Who will be making recruitment decisions with van Graan leaving and how much influence that investment group might have on big signings they fund will presumably be up in the air.

Fekitoa for de Allende would certainly make sense on paper though.

Any idea where de Allende is going? He would make a great addition to Saints midfield.

Nothing specific on de Allende rumours, Doc. A few outlets have said he's had contact from clubs in England, France and Japan which isn't too surprising!

Latest rumours are that Dom Morris is going to turn down Munster and renew with Sarries. Maybe a case of his agent using that dual-reg to help negotiations a bit.

mikey_dragon wrote:“If Clark played for Wales it'd be a depressing indictment of the centres coming through the regions.”

Well yes, it is exactly that. North is injured. Nobody else in over a decade has stepped up to replace Roberts, Davies and Scott Williams. 

Parkes filled a role very well for a few years to be fair. Another that didn't come through the regions though.

king_carlos wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:“If Clark played for Wales it'd be a depressing indictment of the centres coming through the regions.”

Well yes, it is exactly that. North is injured. Nobody else in over a decade has stepped up to replace Roberts, Davies and Scott Williams. 

Parkes filled a role very well for a few years to be fair. Another that didn't come through the regions though.

Yes exactly.

It's not even that there are not talented centers coming through in Wales. It's just they are having development limited without regular game time.

Development of players just hasn't been great. It take 2-3 seasons of fairly regular rugby at that level before they can really be judged after getting used to playing. The problem is most of our youngsters just don't get enough time on the park.

They don't get enough time on the park. There really needs to be a proper A League set up (imo), as even the odd development games that get thrown together are a mess and seem a little pointless, when you actually look at the sides selected.

An obvious example for Dragons would be trying to convert Rosser to 13, but not having games to do it in.

Yes but at some point you have to have a long term plan. A sides won't work. Yes they will play but not a URC level. Which therefore doesn't show you if those players will be able to make the step up.

Most of the URC sides that have a chance of winning the title this season started their development of their sides several seasons ago. I think the regions have to accept that this year and next year are unlikely to win any silverware. If you accept that premise there is no reason not to start looking ahead and bringing players through with 2-3 years ahead in mind.

The problem however is that the Regions are so busy due to the funding model to better each other every season that they are not planning for long term success. In order for this to change my position is that each of the 4 sides should be funded equally regardless. That way at least you will see an end to regions hogging players in certain positions and give each of them certainty about their budgets each season.

It can't be right that the Scarlets for example get twice the funding compared to the Dragons. If everything was equal the teams wouldn't need to keep this false idea of simply trying to finish ahead of each other. If you really want there to be a performance bonus give additional money to a team if they finish in the top 4 of the URC. There is zero point rewarding sides if they can't even finish in the top 4 because then your basically rewarding average performances.

The current system as is just makes the regions concentrate on the current season even if they have zero chance of winning anything at all with very little long term planning on success. That in turn hampers player development.

The main problem currently in the URC is you have some teams playing at a international standard and others off the pace. Ideally all teams would be playing at a international standard thus making the step up to represent their national sides less of an issue. If were being honest Welsh sides are well below this standard. But I can't see it changing if the regions don't adopt longer term views on player management. We already have far to many guys playing in Wales who's best days are behind them and likely will never play for wales again blocking chances for the next generation to get blooded.

Just my view though....

Don't know if mentioned. Stafford McDowall, young inside centre of much initial promise who has been blocked by ill timed injuries and Sam Johnson, is rumoured to be securing a loan to Wasps.

If it goes through, it would be a good move for both sides as McDowall needs gametime and has more pedigree (trained with Scotland a few times if memory serves) than some of the young options Wasps have brought in.

Welshmushroom wrote:It's not even that there are not talented centers coming through in Wales.  It's just they are having development limited without regular game time.

Development of players just hasn't been great.  It take 2-3 seasons of fairly regular rugby at that level before they can really be judged after getting used to playing.  The problem is most of our youngsters just don't get enough time on the park.

There aren't any. If promising young guys come in and then stagnate / go backwards then that's an internal issue. It has happened to a few guys in recent years.

The lack of games doesn't help, but everyone else is going through it in some shape or form.

I’ve been reading up on Fifita and it seems his usual position is back-row. Not particularly what the Scarlets need at 2nd row, especially with Lousi there; they already have Thomson and Shingler in the back row, the latter I hoped would feature for Wales again. With the new eligibility rules he might become available for Tonga, as soon as he’s eligible. It doesn’t seem like such a smart signing.

If he’s interested, a region needs to try and bring back Jake Ball, possibly when his son is a little older and the restrictions permanently crushed.

Are English clubs, notably Bath, chasing Rhys Patchell? He might see it as a good option to look after himself but he would be unavailable for Wales. He was another I’d hoped would come back in. Anscombe has been a little disappointing. He was a little overhyped despite some very good performances for Wales.

Fekitoa to Munster rumoured on their supporters website

Fifitia is a very mobile forward. Has played lock at Wasps and I believe he did quite a bit under Boyd in super rugby. Hanson and the ABs felt he'd be better off as a flanker. Scarlets could slot him in at lock or flanker and he'd be fine. He's played well for Wasps in an often depleted team so far.

Bath will need an experienced flyhalf. Cipriani has not worked and let's face it no one expected he would at Bath under Hooper hence the one year deal. Bath have Orlando Bailey who is a young players with bags of class. Patchell would be of a similar style playmaker to Bailey so would provide a bit more consistency in selection than Cipriani. Patchell being able to slot in at 12 or 15 doesn't hurt either as with cap reductions it's good to have versatility in signings for next season.

I've heard nothing but good things about Fifita's style of play, I'm just not sure it is what Scarlets require unless they can sort out their scrum and defence. They have the players to do so, so no excuses really. They must also be hoping Morgan Jones progresses but we have't seen much of him this 'season'.

mikey_dragon wrote:I've heard nothing but good things about Fifita's style of play, I'm just not sure it is what Scarlets require unless they can sort out their scrum and defence. They have the players to do so, so no excuses really. They must also be hoping Morgan Jones progresses but we have't seen much of him this 'season'.

To be fair we haven't seen much of any of the Scarlets players.

And even less of Morgan Jones since the previous coach departed.

Also, do you know when Scarlets brought in Ashley-Jones? Seems to be a highly rated S&C coach.

mikey_dragon wrote:Also, do you know when Scarlets brought in Ashley-Jones? Seems to be a highly rated S&C coach.

Yes was in July last year. He gave a good interview about the structure Peel is trying to put in place at PYS & what is expected of players.

Think they forgot to send out attendance letters to the players.

Not a player, but Chris Boyd to leave Saints at the end of the season, Dowson to take over as Director of Rugby and Vesty move up to Head Coach. Boyd is going back to NZ to be with his family.

His tenure has been really good for Saints especially in relation to bringing through Academy players 4 of whom have won international caps since he arrived in 2018/19

Dowson was a very good player....lets see how he goes as a DOR...and if hes very good he can come home and take over from Dean :-)

Him and Vesty could work well...

GF, they have been working quite well for a few years in their separate spheres but obviously combining. The attack is brilliant, however the defense can be woeful. We need to give Vass a bit more time, last week we kept you at bay relatively easily, but to be honest I don't know how hard that was, there was little inspiration coming from the Falcons.

Some days the scrum is great, other days not too clever, I am not sure who that is down to players, Ferguson or Dowson.

Boyd is still keeping an advisory role albeit from 12,000 miles away.

FWIW, Dombrandt and Northmore have extended with Quins and aren't going anywhere anytime soon, unless it's to England squads...

Tizard leaving Quins, looking around it seems like Saracens is his destination. Haven't kept up with his story, but seems like a slightly strange decision. Quins are a club on the up and surely he'd been in with a decent chance of being first choice in the coming years?

Before losing Kruis and Skelton Sarries always favoured Isiekwe at 6. My guess is they want Isiekwe in the back row long term there so need a lock to partner Itoje. Pretty great opportunity for a guy like Tizard if so.

Signing back rows tends to be expensive. If Sarries are up to the cap already then locking in Billy V, Earl and Isiekwe as an outstanding first choice club back row makes a lot of sense I think.

Sarries once imperious defensive lineout has suffered from not having a jumper like Isiekwe at 6 I think. It's a downside of Billy and Earl that neither are lineout options. Billy's too heavy, Earl to short. Even if they wanted to use Earl in that Curry type third jumper role on their own ball he'd offer nothing as a defensive jumper and you'd be losing a perfect forward to drop into the backline on attacking and defensive lineouts.

JJ Hanrahan to the Dragons for next season is a rumour doing the rounds (courtesy of Welshmushroom on the Dragons thread).

king_carlos wrote:Before losing Kruis and Skelton Sarries always favoured Isiekwe at 6. My guess is they want Isiekwe in the back row long term there so need a lock to partner Itoje. Pretty great opportunity for a guy like Tizard if so.

Signing back rows tends to be expensive. If Sarries are up to the cap already then locking in Billy V, Earl and Isiekwe as an outstanding first choice club back row makes a lot of sense I think.

Sarries once imperious defensive lineout has suffered from not having a jumper like Isiekwe at 6 I think. It's a downside of Billy and Earl that neither are lineout options. Billy's too heavy, Earl to short. Even if they wanted to use Earl in that Curry type third jumper role on their own ball he'd offer nothing as a defensive jumper and you'd be losing a perfect forward to drop into the backline on attacking and defensive lineouts.

Didn't Swinson come out of retirement a couple of years ago because Sarries were his boyhood club? He might be thinking of hanging the boots back up on which case Sarries would definitely need another lock as they've already lost one lock this season.

Certainly the option of Isiekwe at 6 makes sense with Reffell off to Ulster.  Backrow numbers will be reducing. The young lad Christie is it, has looked good when I've seen him play.

Cumbrian wrote:Tizard leaving Quins, looking around it seems like Saracens is his destination.  Haven't kept up with his story, but seems like a slightly strange decision.  Quins are a club on the up and surely he'd been in with a decent chance of being first choice in the coming years?

It’s the peculiarities of the reduced cap, innit?

Quins have announced the retention of Dombrandt and Northmore this week and probably had a choice between keeping Tizard or Kenningham. Behind Tizard they have Hammond, Jurevicius and (in the senior squad) Christian Scotland-Williamson. Much as we love Tizard (and he’s a fabulous prospect), we can more easily afford to lose him than Kenningham (who is now out for 6 months courtesy of a reckless, extremely dangerous and unsanctioned “clear out” by Jonny Gray and one of his Exeter chums. Thanks [insert expletive of choice here])

Tizard confirmed to Sarries.

As mentioned, Swinson is at the end of his career at this point having retired once and soon to be 35. Both Kpoku's have left over the summer.

The only listed locks they have are Itoje, Isiekwe, Swinson and Hunter-Hill. They could do with another lock coming in after Tizard if Swinson calls it a day unless they have someone in their academy they like.

Saints have a few of very young locks, a couple on the light side at the moment, but I am sure they would loan them out to get a bit of experience. they are not going to get too much at FG, we are well blessed with locks

We've been linked with Tian Schoeman the Bath back up fly half.

Cant say i know much about him at all....but with Joel Hodgson surely being moved on, and Connon only contracted till the summer are they looking for a senior guy whilst we bring through Will Haydon Wood and Louie Johnson.

I think Schoeman has been injured for nearly all his time at Bath. Can play 10 and 15 though.

Chiefs look set to sign Leinster second row Dunne a 6ft8 122kg 21 year old for next season. Hasn't played this season yet due to an ankle injury. Replacement for one of the outgoing internationals it seems.

Wow hes a big fella....if Chiefs can work their magic on him...

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think Schoeman has been injured for nearly all his time at Bath. Can play 10 and 15 though.

Chiefs look set to sign Leinster second row Dunne a 6ft8 122kg 21 year old for next season. Hasn't played this season yet due to an ankle injury. Replacement for one of the outgoing internationals it seems.

Just what we need!

Albert Tuisue off to Glaws next season

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