Scotland v Ireland 6N Championship Sunday 14th march 2021

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Ireland
6N Championship

14th March 2021
BT Murrayfield
Edinburgh
KO 15.00


Well we are getting to the business end of the championship and we have two sides who need a win.

Scotland started very brightly in their first game, ending their Twickenham hoodoo at long last, then managed to lose a game they were winning comfortably against Wales, have all the old doubts about the steel of this Scotland side, who can look very good when on song, returned?

Ireland did not have a good start to the tournament and no one will be convinced by a strong win over Italy either, which should really be a given atm They have not really found their style yet under Farrell and still perhaps seem to reliant on their old stagers and be a little reluctant to move on to the next generation.

So in effect, both sides seem a bit fragile still, which might make this a fascinating contest.

Scotland don't have a good record against Ireland in recent times and the lack of a crowd won't give much, if any advantage to the home side. On that basis you would have to fancy Ireland for a narrow victory, though I would imagine it will be close.

I think we might see a scotland team with not many changes, something along these lines, with the highlight hopefully being seeing Dobie win his first cap off the bench:

1. Sutherland
2. Turner
3. Nel
4. Cummings
5. Gray J
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. Price
10. Russell
11. VDM
12. Johnson
13. Harris
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Subs:

Keeble
Cherry
Berghan
Skinner
Haining
Dobie (a first cap off the bench)
Lang
Jones H

tigertattie wrote:

Anglobraveheart wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Anyone else struggling to get up for this game?

The shafting vs wales, the cancelled game against France and this game on a Sunday are all dragging down my enthusiasm for this

TT, do not lose faith.  Believe and they will deliver!
If we can convincingly beat England away (albeit a pretty podgy England) we can also put Ireland away on Sunday.

Erm we didn’t beat them convincingly. We only beat them 11-6

Ireland the ever pragmatic will not fail to score against us

My worry is that we fail to beat Ireland, make hard work of Italy and then get blown away by France

Then we’re back to being plucky old Scotland who raise their game for the English but blow chuncks against everyone else. It’s like GLove hand picked Scotland to play every week and As Long As We Beat England it’s all ok......

I've been thinking along the same lines. I completely agree!
Scotland should blow chunks against England and raise their game against everyone else. Fair is fair.

tigertattie wrote:

Anglobraveheart wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Anyone else struggling to get up for this game?

The shafting vs wales, the cancelled game against France and this game on a Sunday are all dragging down my enthusiasm for this

TT, do not lose faith.  Believe and they will deliver!
If we can convincingly beat England away (albeit a pretty podgy England) we can also put Ireland away on Sunday.

Erm we didn’t beat them convincingly. We only beat them 11-6

Ireland the ever pragmatic will not fail to score against us

My worry is that we fail to beat Ireland, make hard work of Italy and then get blown away by France

Then we’re back to being plucky old Scotland who raise their game for the English but blow chuncks against everyone else. It’s like GLove hand picked Scotland to play every week and As Long As We Beat England it’s all ok......

The enigma that is our national team persists.
I would argue that based on the stats, we blew them away.
Unfortunately, the scoreline just did not reflect the stats of the match. If we are talking match score, I agree with you. If we are talking stats, and what we saw in the game, then we comprehensively dismantled England.

based on the stats we blew Wales away as well

Shouldn't the Scotland team be announced by now?

TJ wrote:based on the stats we blew Wales away as well

We did. But unfortunately only for half the game. Then we blew ourselves up.

Scotland XV out:

Sutherland - Turner - Nel (Bhatti? - Cherry - Berghan)
Cummings - J Gray (Gilchrist?)
Ritchie - M Fagerson - Watson (Haining)

Price - Russell (Steele)
Johnson - Harris (Jones)
VDM - Hogg - Maitland (Graham)

Ireland XV out:

Healy - Herring - Furlong (Kilcoyne - Kelleher - Porter)
Henderson - Ryan (Baird)
Beirne - Stander - Connors (Conan)

Gibson Park - Sexton (Murray - Burns)
Henshaw - Ringrose
Lowe - Kennan - Earls (Larmour)

Don't understand the choice of Bhatti and Gilchrist over Kebble and Skinner.

Kebble has been good and it surely can only be injury. Gilchrist and J Gray don't work well in combination was one of the things I thought we learned during the last RWC whilst Skinner is fine with both Cummings and J Gray (as well as offering a BS option).

Happy not to see Lang or an unfit VDW pretending to cover 10. If we are going to beat Ireland, we are going to need at least 70 minutes from Russell and Hastings, and one is unavailable. H Jones and Graham offer dynamism off the bench if we are looking to run Ireland around at the end but I am not sure they will have much of a platform with Bhatti and Berghan against Kilcoyne and Porter at scrum time.

Ireland have gone for a big pack though if Henshaw has to come off, the backs are on the smaller side. Going to be a tough afternoon I fear with Ireland going after Russell knowing there is no cavalry on the bench.

TJ wrote:based on the stats we blew Wales away as well

New Zealand regularly win with less than 45% possession. Winning the stats is the ultimate Brendan Rodgers 'moral victory' mentality to paper over the fact a team doesn't know how to win.

Given how both teams are very good at holding on to the ball this should be an interesting contest at the breakdown.

I'm hoping for a good game for the neutral. I can see Scotland nicking it by 3 points.

Tell you what, our forward replacements are about as inspiring as a beige carpet in a dental surgery!

Hazel Sapling wrote:Don't understand the choice of Bhatti and Gilchrist over Kebble and Skinner.

Kebble has been good and it surely can only be injury. Gilchrist and J Gray don't work well in combination was one of the things I thought we learned during the last RWC whilst Skinner is fine with both Cummings and J Gray (as well as offering a BS option).

Happy not to see Lang or an unfit VDW pretending to cover 10. If we are going to beat Ireland, we are going to need at least 70 minutes from Russell and Hastings, and one is unavailable. H Jones and Graham offer dynamism off the bench if we are looking to run Ireland around at the end but I am not sure they will have much of a platform with Bhatti and Berghan against Kilcoyne and Porter at scrum time.

Ireland have gone for a big pack though if Henshaw has to come off, the backs are on the smaller side. Going to be a tough afternoon I fear with Ireland going after Russell knowing there is no cavalry on the bench.

I think this will ultimately be our undoing - in fact all of the Ireland pack replacements are several classes above our lads and that should see them moving away in the last quarter. Yes Baird doesn't have any caps, but he is another off the Leinster production line, dynamic and from what I can tell somebody of whom big things are expected.

Kebble is a massive loss and I can't quite believe that Toonie has picked GG over Skinner, but there you go.

tigertattie wrote:Tell you what, our forward replacements are about as inspiring as a beige carpet in a dental surgery!

Or what Tattie said

Toonie going for the " big lumps on the bench" gambit. I can't see them stretching the Irish defence if we're chasing the game in the last quarter. If we're leading however then the finishing pack should be able to hold on to the ball.
Harris v Ringrose could be crucial. I've always rated Ringrose's attacking play, whereas Harris' big selling point is his defence. If Harris stops the ball getting to the back three then Scotland are in the game( that's Irish attacking ball, we're used to him stopping Scottish ball getting to the back three).

EST wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Tell you what, our forward replacements are about as inspiring as a beige carpet in a dental surgery!

Or what Tattie said

I find Gilchrist as inspiring as an exceptionally under filled beanbag.

I think Ireland have the more powerful side. Quite frustrating actually because I think the Scotland side that played England would be able to win this one (Redpath, Kebble, Fagerson). It’s only three players but Bhatti is a so-so as a replacement. Not a bad player at all but possibly slightly less robust than Kebble at scrum time. Then Johnson as I said before lacks a kicking game and Fagerson has been starting every game until his red card. This match has all the ingredients for another frustrating arm wrestle with Scotland coming out in the wrong side. Unless the backs can bring some sparkle to the game like they did in 2017. Can’t believe that’s been 4 years already!

bsando wrote:I think Ireland have the more powerful side. Quite frustrating actually because I think the Scotland side that played England would be able to win this one (Redpath, Kebble, Fagerson). It’s only three players but Bhatti is a so-so as a replacement. Not a bad player at all but possibly slightly less robust than Kebble at scrum time. Then Johnson as I said before lacks a kicking game and Fagerson has been starting every game until his red card. This match has all the ingredients for another frustrating arm wrestle with Scotland coming out in the wrong side. Unless the backs can bring some sparkle to the game like they did in 2017. Can’t believe that’s been 4 years already!

I can, it feels like an age since we last beat Ireland. They're another team that I hate watching us play like Wales because they just have our number. No matter how crap their season is or how good ours is they just dominate and grind out a win. Hence why I say we should rather than can win because whilst this Irish side has talent and experience, they've not been at their best for a while, horsing of Italy aside, and we're on the ascendency, Wales aside.

Although must admit looking at our bench I think I might reverse my previous prediction to a 3 point win to Ireland. Can't see beyond it being painful for Scotland now!

I read online recently that Ryan Baird clocked over 10 metres per second on his gps unit, during a game. To put that into perspective over 10 mps is the kind of pace that international wingers are delighted to record! Grant Gilchrist is a solid, and much improved lock but rapid he isn't.

If Sutherland goes off early and its Bhatti boy v the duke box or Andrew Porter then we will be coughing up scrum penalties all day long. .Bhatti has looked underwhelming when coming off the bench for Bath, I am assuming that Kebble is injured. It's a pity Schoeman isn't Scotland qualified until the summer.

I still find it sad that we need to shore up our front row so many southern hemisphere imports.

sensiball, 10mps over 100m would give you a time of 10.00sec for the 100metres. There was a time when that would win you a Gold at the Olympics. as you say if he is in a foot race with Gilchrist there will only be one winner. But as Martin Johnson replied when asked how his England side would cope with the best flanker in the world (Richie McCaw) "If he's at the bottom of a ruck with a big ugly second row lying on him he isn't the best player in the world at that moment." So the real question is, when Baird comes on who in the Scotland pack is smart enough to make sure he doesn't get the space he needs to show off his athleticism? My money's on Mbawza.

Problem will be the the time Baird is on the Irish bench front row will also be on. Porter, Kelleher and Kilcoyne are all excellent ball carriers as well as great scrummagers. Jack Conan isn't too shabby either. The power of these players may well provide opportunities for Baird to show us his Forrest Gump impression!

This is going to be a brutal contest up front and Graham and Jones may count for bugger all if the starting Scottish pack doesn’t show up.

Normally i would day Ireland will win this game at a canter. but just lately i do not know.

I think this one will be tight. Naturally enough Russell is the key man. If he plays well and unleashes the Scottish back 3 then it will be tough for Ireland.


I like the Ireland squad though. Plenty of impact off the bench but they've not being playing well and I don't think they will dominate up front so they need to be inventive. Theres little evidence to show they will be.

So I notice that at half-back Ireland are pairing Jamieson's Highland Park with a Jonny Sextoy
Sounds like a good night in.

Everyone saying how important Russell is. Well he is but so is everyone else.

For me the game is going to be decided by the backrow. M Fagerson will likely be anonymous except for giving away penalties so it’s Ritchie and Watson that we need to look to. Hopefully Gray and Cummings can give a bit go forward to help out.

Scotland by 3 after racing in to a huge lead in the first 60 minutes before a gallant Irish fight back.

Good luck to our paddy brethren.

I'd settle for a game which isn't decided by a couple of questionable refereeing decisions.

jimbopip wrote:So I notice that at half-back Ireland are pairing Jamieson's Highland Park with a Jonny Sextoy
Sounds like a good night in.

Ominous start.

It looks like men against boys.

Sean Maitland tackles James Lowe in to touch.

No, do not adjust your television set. This isn't Super Rugby. It is the Six Nations.

Scotland looking just a step of the pace atm

It's going to be a long old day...

Hogg not dealing with two high balls early on. It won't do any favours for his Lions hopes.

Scotland need to box clever for the next 15 minutes or so. They're being totally outmuscled and outplayed. No need to try to win the game, just stay in it, keep Irelan in their own half, defend with possession like they've done so well all tournament.

That's a bit better, hopefully we can settle now

Very scrappy so far, shows that we've not been playing for 3 weeks

My god we like a knock on eh

Are the Irish actually going anywhere other than through the side of the ruck??

Blimey that could be an important turnover

Henshaw is in the form of his life. Nailed on for the Lions squad. If Tuilagi is injured he's looking like the best test choice as well to go up against de Allende.

Well they have our number on the lineout that's for sure

BigGee wrote:Blimey that could be an important turnover

Watson surely is a lion

Hogg pointing out Ireland's tactics of sealing off at every single ruck to secure their own ball.

If Poite needed Hogg to tell him then we're in trouble. They've been doing it since Schmidt took charge.

Oh my god price. Can’t you pass off your left hand?

He’s meant to be an international 9 and he has to turn his back to get a right hand pass away ???

tigertattie wrote:Oh my god price. Can’t you pass off your left hand?

He’s meant to be an international 9 and he has to turn his back to get a right hand pass away ???

Price has looked pretty poor, moments against Wales aside. Looking forward to Horne coming back from injury...

Scotland surviving the pressure so far. This should pay off later on in the game as it breaks up but another Irish try and Scotland are in trouble.

This is rotten. Utterly rotten.

3 easy line outs messed up. Knock ons everywhere

We’ve got not platform at all

We’ve regressed back to rabbit in headlight mode

Ehhhhh no try lol

That was all planned of course!!

As expected, this is turning in to a great game for the neutral.

Well there you go. Off the face isn’t a knock on.

It was his head, so its a try