ENGLAND vs FRANCE - Match Thread - 13/3/21 16:45pm

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

Starting XV

15. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 6 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 49 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 37 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 91 caps) (C)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 64 caps)
10. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 75 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 107 caps)

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 65 caps)
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps)
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 42 caps)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 46 caps)
5. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
6. Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 21 caps)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 31 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 59 caps)

FINISHERS
16. Jamie George (Saracens, 57 caps)
17. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps)
18. Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
19. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps)
20. Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 11 caps)
21. Dan Robson (Wasps, 10 caps)
22. Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 4 caps)
23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 50 caps

FRANCE XV

Dulin; Thomas, Vakatawa, Fickou, Penaud; Jalibert, Dupont; Baille, Marchand, Haouas; Taofifenua, Willemse; Cretin, Ollivon (capt), Alldritt.

Replacements: Chat, Gros, Aldegheri, Cazeaux, Woki, Jelonch, Serin, Ntamack.

[lostinwales]

Never in doubt (lol) terrific game. Intensity unreal. French so utterly lethal ball in hand but maybe 2nd best elsewhere.

As I said at half time, referee has been very good. Never perfect but regardless not the deciding factor, which has been a relief

[quinsforever]

great game. both sides played some fantastic rugby.

daly being dropped obviously worked. he hasn't played like that 10mins for england in ages.

[majesticimperialman]

What a come back from England, i really did not think England had it in them to fight back like they did.

Congratulations England.

[No 7&1/2]

What a game. Curry my pick for man of the match

Absolutely. Back to his best. I suppose given Watson got his tey on his 50th cap maybhave something to do with the award.

[lostinwales]

So is this England playing them in to match fItness?

Daly outstanding In his cameo

Mark Wilson probably played his second last game for England

Genge frustrates me

And what to do with a problem of 12 and 13

I honestly thought Slade was very good.

[BamBam]

France are great to watch. It's going to be nice to be able to cheer them on next week

[Geordie]

So is this England playing them in to match fItness?

Daly outstanding In his cameo

Mark Wilson probably played his second last game for England

Genge frustrates me

And what to do with a problem of 12 and 13

I honestly thought Slade was very good.

Agree I thought that probably his best game for England

[Heaf]

Brace was clueless at the breakdown for both sides - but over the whole game I think the French benefitted the most from his incompetence.

[formerly known as Sam]

Much better performance from England. Attack actually functioned at times with the Youngs and Ford combination looking like they had options for a change. Back three seemed more solid with Malins though I'm not sure he offered masses individually.

Forwards much better in terms of discipline. Whatever they'd done in the week with getting the refs in was well worth it.

France didn't really get into a groove, much like Vs Ireland maybe it's a playing away from home thing.

[whatahitson]

Interesting as the game went on Farrell, who started the match pretty well, became more anonymous.  

Fine margins between hero or zero for a captain in that situation. If England lose they would be getting absolutely hammered for all sorts of reasons, from indiscipline, to lack of cutting edge, to too much kicking.

In the end England's tactics were working well. They looked better the longer they kept the ball going through the phases but were often interrupted by breakdown penalties, many of which were cow faeces.

England should have hit the lead earlier than 3 minutes to go, though. France looked pretty ordinary bar a few very impressive attacking moves. A captain should respond to that and England looked like they knew they had the French under pressure and that the breakthrough would eventually come. For me, Farrell should have forced the issue earlier by going for a drop goal or two. As it was, the game suited Ford's attacking instincts to try to unlock the defence.

Also, Daly deserves major credit. Given the nonsense said about him in the last fortnight he made 3 or 4 contributions, from fielding the ball in his 22 to making breaks in attack, and all of them were massively beneficial to England. As he showed, one of England's best attacking talents who can also offer a lot mopping up the defence as well. He's humbled a few posters on here for sure!

[lostinwales]

The best performance from England thus far against a very good France side.

Not perfect by any means. Still some silly pens and unforced errors but much much better.

When the unforced errors started creeping in in the 2nd half I really thought the game was going to slip away from us.

[No 7&1/2]

So is this England playing them in to match fItness?

Daly outstanding In his cameo

Mark Wilson probably played his second last game for England

Genge frustrates me

And what to do with a problem of 12 and 13

I honestly thought Slade was very good.

Yes.

Yes he was, didn't even throw the ball out on the full.

Better second half certainly, probably was, really don't think he'll start next week.

Genge is class.

Lawrence needs to start.

Slade in defence yes, in attack individually behind farrell for me and that partnership lacks balance.

[whatahitson]

Brace was clueless at the breakdown for both sides - but over the whole game I think the French benefitted the most from his incompetence.

Without question.

I noticed one from Curry where he didn't spot the fact Curry didn't release. An important penalty admittedly given it was 5m from the England line. There were at least 5 where the French were off feet/on hands/not releasing and won the penalty. So that's a good place to start: France 5 to England's 1.

[Noble-Surfer]

Cracking game for the neutral! Congrats England!

[Geordie]

Much better performance from England. Attack actually functioned at times with the Youngs and Ford combination looking like they had options for a change. Back three seemed more solid with Malins though I'm not sure he offered masses individually.

Forwards much better in terms of discipline. Whatever they'd done in the week with getting the refs in was well worth it.

France didn't really get into a groove, much like Vs Ireland maybe it's a playing away from home thing.

Sam I wasnt overly impressed with Malins which may be harsh as it's his first start. So time will tell

Daly in his brief cameo showed the difference in the two..

But I'm still a fan of your youngster at Tigers in the next year or so...

[No 7&1/2]

Much better performance from England. Attack actually functioned at times with the Youngs and Ford combination looking like they had options for a change. Back three seemed more solid with Malins though I'm not sure he offered masses individually.

Forwards much better in terms of discipline. Whatever they'd done in the week with getting the refs in was well worth it.

France didn't really get into a groove, much like Vs Ireland maybe it's a playing away from home thing.

I just can't see either Youngs or Ford starting by the autumn games.

[Cyril]

Best game of the 6Ns by a country mile. Both sides attacking and completely breathless at times.

After weeks of stodgy rugby and everyone thrashing Italy it’s a good day for the game

[RiscaGame]

Really enjoyed that.

Could’ve done without the LBP, but never mind. Well done England.

[Geordie]

So is this England playing them in to match fItness?

Daly outstanding In his cameo

Mark Wilson probably played his second last game for England

Genge frustrates me

And what to do with a problem of 12 and 13

I honestly thought Slade was very good.

Yes.

Yes he was, didn't even throw the ball out on the full.

Better second half certainly, probably was, really don't think he'll start next week.

Genge is class.

Lawrence needs to start.

Slade in defence yes, in attack individually behind farrell for me and that partnership lacks balance.

Genge frustrates me because he plays the hard man then gets smashed physically because hes too casual..

The scrum him and Sinkler won then the ruck where he got wiped out just highlIghted perfectly...

[whatahitson]

England actually played a bit like Scotland in that second half. Lots of good play in the opposition half, almost like defending with the ball at times, but an inability to put points on the board.

Better teams would have taken the game away from England but France are far from the finished article. Nothing too much to worry about for England, when they reinvent the attack they'll cut through and score those points with ease, they have the players to do so.

If nothing else the win gets the critics off the backs of the whole England camp, Jones and players.

[whatahitson]

Genge deserves to be dropped for Obano. He's the only player who looks consistently off it - not Youngs, not Daly, not Farrell, despite all of those coming under criticism.

Lockdown might be playing a part but given Marler's absence it's worth having a look at Obano now. Give Genge a break. There's so much more to come from him in the future, he'll be back, but the next game should be an opportunity to have a look at Obano.

[doctor_grey]

Best game of the 6Ns by a country mile. Both sides attacking and completely breathless at times.

After weeks of stodgy rugby and everyone thrashing Italy it’s a good day for the game

How long is a country mile?

[lostinwales]

Best game of the 6Ns by a country mile. Both sides attacking and completely breathless at times.

After weeks of stodgy rugby and everyone thrashing Italy it’s a good day for the game

How long is a country mile?

It is always a local measurement

[Guest]

Nice game. Cheers!

[whatahitson]

Eddie Jones sounds like he's had the weight of the world lifted from him in his post match interview.

Letting off some steam from the last few weeks for sure.

[Geordie]

Genge deserves to be dropped for Obano. He's the only player who looks consistently off it - not Youngs, not Daly, not Farrell, despite all of those coming under criticism.

Lockdown might be playing a part but given Marler's absence it's worth having a look at Obano now. Give Genge a break. There's so much more to come from him in the future, he'll be back, but the next game should be an opportunity to have a look at Obano.

I think its a mental thing with Genge similar to Sinkler.

They're more bothered with their reputation than the game. Sinkler has sorted that out and now is one of the best in the world. Genge needs to follow suit...

[doctor_grey]

Much better performance from England. Attack actually functioned at times with the Youngs and Ford combination looking like they had options for a change. Back three seemed more solid with Malins though I'm not sure he offered masses individually.

Forwards much better in terms of discipline. Whatever they'd done in the week with getting the refs in was well worth it.

France didn't really get into a groove, much like Vs Ireland maybe it's a playing away from home thing.

I just can't see either Youngs or Ford starting by the autumn games.

It's hard to tell about Youngs or Ford.  I have never been a big Ford fan, but given a little front foot ball today, he really helped the team move especially late.  His 12 doesn't do that.  We certainly need to see the younger 9s get their runs over the summer to have an idea where Youngs really stands.  Unless he was totally gassed, I wouldn't have pulled Youngs off late on.  

What do you think about starting Malins again next week?  I liked the way Daly was aggressive and involved when he came on as a sub.  Just for next week.

[lostinwales]

Much better performance from England. Attack actually functioned at times with the Youngs and Ford combination looking like they had options for a change. Back three seemed more solid with Malins though I'm not sure he offered masses individually.

Forwards much better in terms of discipline. Whatever they'd done in the week with getting the refs in was well worth it.

France didn't really get into a groove, much like Vs Ireland maybe it's a playing away from home thing.

Sam I wasnt overly impressed with Malins which may be harsh as it's his first start. So time will tell

Daly in his brief cameo showed the difference in the two..

But I'm still a fan of your youngster at Tigers in the next year or so...

Interested to know what more you would have wanted. He generally made the right decisions. Got flattened once but manage to drag down the attacker anyway. Cocked up one time running the ball back and got turned over but looked quick if maybe a little lightweight.

[Geordie]

I agree with Woodward...theres players in the prem that should be in this team...and some of the bench should be starting...

[king_carlos]

Ah Eddie, "we didn't know about the captains challenge rule, we might use that next week".

[doctor_grey]

Ah Eddie, "we didn't know about the captains challenge rule, we might use that next week".

he really said that? Can WE use it to challenge Eddie's choice of captain?

[No 7&1/2]

Much better performance from England. Attack actually functioned at times with the Youngs and Ford combination looking like they had options for a change. Back three seemed more solid with Malins though I'm not sure he offered masses individually.

Forwards much better in terms of discipline. Whatever they'd done in the week with getting the refs in was well worth it.

France didn't really get into a groove, much like Vs Ireland maybe it's a playing away from home thing.

Sam I wasnt overly impressed with Malins which may be harsh as it's his first start. So time will tell

Daly in his brief cameo showed the difference in the two..

But I'm still a fan of your youngster at Tigers in the next year or so...

Interested to know what more you would have wanted. He generally made the right decisions. Got flattened once but  manage to drag down the attacker anyway. Cocked up one time running the ball back and got turned over but looked quick if maybe a little lightweight.

He rolled badly 2 or 3 times. Bar that a clear step up from daly from...well whenever he's played full back. Better for me in the current set up however still thinks he's a fly half and not a full back.

[whatahitson]

Genge deserves to be dropped for Obano. He's the only player who looks consistently off it - not Youngs, not Daly, not Farrell, despite all of those coming under criticism.

Lockdown might be playing a part but given Marler's absence it's worth having a look at Obano now. Give Genge a break. There's so much more to come from him in the future, he'll be back, but the next game should be an opportunity to have a look at Obano.

I think its a mental thing with Genge similar to Sinkler.

They're more bothered with their reputation than the game. Sinkler has sorted that out and now is one of the best in the world. Genge needs to follow suit...

Agree to an extent. I don't think it's about reputation that much. It might be but I think it's hard to tell from the outside.

The way I see it, he plays the game on the edge a lot of the time and he's an emotional player which if you can control it makes him very potent. But it's impossible to pretend that the circumstances of the last 12 months don't impact on a player like Genge in terms of focus, composure, and motivation. It doesn't help that he has very little game time to effectively balance out his mistakes but the fact that, in the game time he has had, he has made some costly errors and penalties when he's been on the field means, for me, it's time to look at Obano with one game to go and nothing left to play for.

[whatahitson]

I agree with Woodward...theres players in the prem that should be in this team...and some of the bench should be starting...

Malins did well all things considered but at the same time it was a tough game for him at times. He's taken to test rugby better than Furbank but the intensity and pressure he was under in that game will have been something he's never experienced before. That will do him good in the long run but there's no need to just throw in the flavour of the week, particularly in the outside backs. Lancaster did that and he paid the price with a lack of experience and quality in nearly every single position.

There aren't too many players I'd drop from this team. Ewels stood up today and has done wonders for his long term England prospects. If he didn't perform I think he might have been finished. Malins had a decent introduction to test rugby. The back row played really well, Wilson was an unsung hero and Curry and Billy were dynamic and powerful in attack. There's no need to drop any of the three.

Who would you want to play? And who would you drop?

[Geordie]

Much better performance from England. Attack actually functioned at times with the Youngs and Ford combination looking like they had options for a change. Back three seemed more solid with Malins though I'm not sure he offered masses individually.

Forwards much better in terms of discipline. Whatever they'd done in the week with getting the refs in was well worth it.

France didn't really get into a groove, much like Vs Ireland maybe it's a playing away from home thing.

Sam I wasnt overly impressed with Malins which may be harsh as it's his first start. So time will tell

Daly in his brief cameo showed the difference in the two..

But I'm still a fan of your youngster at Tigers in the next year or so...

Interested to know what more you would have wanted. He generally made the right decisions. Got flattened once but  manage to drag down the attacker anyway. Cocked up one time running the ball back and got turned over but looked quick if maybe a little lightweight.

I think it was the speed of attack that was the difference from an in form Daly. He has sheer pace and attacks with purpose. Malins looked more a slower version of a playmaker at 15...and more suited to 10 at 7.5 said.

I'd rather see Daly at 15 or go with Steward if pace is not a criteria.  

But theres a few other 15s coming through now...

Saying all that..he did well for a first start v france

[whatahitson]

I think it's time for Lawrence to start at 12 as well. I'm not sure the balance between Farrell and Slade is quite right. Tuilagi and Slade worked beautifully but sometimes it feels like Slade and Farrell is almost like Gerrard and Lampard in the midfield for England. The balance isn't quite right.

The problem is Farrell won't be dropped to the bench with Ford starting at 10. It's just not going to happen.

The Ireland game does give them an opportunity to try something different though. Not massively different but given the form of Ringrose and Henshaw it might not be a bad idea to just mix up the centre partnership.

[mountain man]

What a game! Fair play I thought France were going to win that and if they had couldn't have complained but an excellent 80 min performance from England. Glad TMO made right decision for Itoje try, Brace onfield decision could have cost us.
Malins was good in part, have to admit I got a bit twitchy when Daley came on but in fairness he did OK. In fact all team were good, Itoje, Curry, Watson particularly so along with Slade who had best game for a while.

[doctor_grey]

I think it's time for Lawrence to start at 12 as well. I'm not sure the balance between Farrell and Slade is quite right. Tuilagi and Slade worked beautifully but sometimes it feels like Slade and Farrell is almost like Gerrard and Lampard in the midfield for England. The balance isn't quite right.

The problem is Farrell won't be dropped to the bench with Ford starting at 10. It's just not going to happen.

The Ireland game does give them an opportunity to try something different though. Not massively different but given the form of Ringrose and Henshaw it might not be a bad idea to just mix up the centre partnership.

O
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[mountain man]

I think it's time for Lawrence to start at 12 as well. I'm not sure the balance between Farrell and Slade is quite right. Tuilagi and Slade worked beautifully but sometimes it feels like Slade and Farrell is almost like Gerrard and Lampard in the midfield for England. The balance isn't quite right.

The problem is Farrell won't be dropped to the bench with Ford starting at 10. It's just not going to happen.

The Ireland game does give them an opportunity to try something different though. Not massively different but given the form of Ringrose and Henshaw it might not be a bad idea to just mix up the centre partnership.

O
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I've been calling for Odogwu as well but after that win be very surprised if any changes for Ireland, especially as pretty much 1-15 and subs were good. As someone else said, Farrell started really well then seem to fade a bit but no chance at all he will be dropped. Still too many pens though, some unfairly I thought but it's what ref thinks is more important!

[whatahitson]

I think it's time for Lawrence to start at 12 as well. I'm not sure the balance between Farrell and Slade is quite right. Tuilagi and Slade worked beautifully but sometimes it feels like Slade and Farrell is almost like Gerrard and Lampard in the midfield for England. The balance isn't quite right.

The problem is Farrell won't be dropped to the bench with Ford starting at 10. It's just not going to happen.

The Ireland game does give them an opportunity to try something different though. Not massively different but given the form of Ringrose and Henshaw it might not be a bad idea to just mix up the centre partnership.

O
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Possibly. I think he'd be better served with a few back to back games against a team like Argentina or Australia rather than thrown straight in against an Irish side who will likely be attritional for the most part. Get Lawrence to do the no nonsense basics of a hard carrying 12 with anything more than that an added bonus and I think that's the best 'next step' to take.

[Geordie]

Slade impressed me today...more than any game before.

But I still think we're missing power in that backline...

Daly had the bIt between his teeth when he came on mind...

[majesticimperialman]

Today i think we can say England played with and restored some much needed Pride, although no Grand Slam or tournament win this year. I also think it showed some of the players need a rest and other need to be brought in to rebuild the squad for the next RWC.

[formerly known as Sam]

Much better performance from England. Attack actually functioned at times with the Youngs and Ford combination looking like they had options for a change. Back three seemed more solid with Malins though I'm not sure he offered masses individually.

Forwards much better in terms of discipline. Whatever they'd done in the week with getting the refs in was well worth it.

France didn't really get into a groove, much like Vs Ireland maybe it's a playing away from home thing.

I just can't see either Youngs or Ford starting by the autumn games.

It's hard to tell about Youngs or Ford.  I have never been a big Ford fan, but given a little front foot ball today, he really helped the team move especially late.  His 12 doesn't do that.  We certainly need to see the younger 9s get their runs over the summer to have an idea where Youngs really stands.  Unless he was totally gassed, I wouldn't have pulled Youngs off late on.  

What do you think about starting Malins again next week?  I liked the way Daly was aggressive and involved when he came on as a sub.  Just for next week.

I think being dropped gave Daly a kick up the backside. I didn't think Malins had many individual impacts but at the same time there was no issues at the back bar the early Dupont score. It seems a thing with Daly's tenure at 15 that there's unclaimed high balls, kicks allowed to bounce or just something that causes panic even if it doesn't lead to a try. Malins seemed to add composure and organisation at the back. When Daly came on the game was breaking up and that suited him down the ground, show him a gap and with fresh legs he's off.

Ford was excellent, again. He's the one organising the pods, the carriers and directing everything when we attack. The difference between the Scotland game when Farrell failed to do that and we've seen since is night and day. The problem is the midfield outside him where we have two playmakers that don't want to run straight, we left tries on the park today because no one was straightening the line and the French defence managed to scramble and cover. I've said it many times the Farrell/Slade combination DOES NOT WORK. I think it's likely Ford will be the flyhalf at the next world cup currently Smith looks like he could become a contender but Eddie isn't a fan and you can never be sure until they get to international level, hopefully Smith tours in the summer.

Youngs is a 100 cap international. He's quality. He showed it again tonight. Yes there's areas of his game that are a bit ropey but as Robson is shown if you play at the tempo Eddie demands it's very difficult to be super precise. I hope they use the summer tour to look at his long term successor because he tends to play better under some pressure, we saw that when Care was challenging him for the 9 shirt or when he got dropped for Heinz and came back firing. Randall could push him on and force him to keep his form up which will in turn help Randall develop and England will benefit doubly.

[mountain man]

Surprised some here actually watched game as reading back it appears some spent all game commenting about it on here.
I was way too engrossed to do anything other than shout at TV on occasion.
Be interesting to see what happens next week with France v Wales. Will France want to bounce back with a win or will now that chance of Grand Slam gone lose interest?

[whatahitson]

Surprised some here actually watched game as reading back it appears some spent all game commenting about it on here.
I was way too engrossed to do anything other than shout at TV on occasion.

Lively episode of Flog It, I take it?

[mountain man]

Surprised some here actually watched game as reading back it appears some spent all game commenting about it on here.
I was way too engrossed to do anything other than shout at TV on occasion.

Lively episode of Flog It, I take it?

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or having a dig but whatever it is doesn't do you any credit.

[whatahitson]

It's light hearted banter. Chill out, don't take yourself so seriously.

For someone who's been a member of the forum for a mere 4 days, I don't know why you're worried about other people posting during the match.

Are you a returning user by any chance?

[mountain man]

You seem very keen on finding out about me, am I English, am I a returning poster etc. Perhaps you should chill?
As for worried about others posting during a game, not at all, it was just an observation. Are you English? It's been suggested you previously supported another team.

[Cumbrian]

Good win today.  I'm sorry, I know I've been absent during England's recent travails.   My oldest freind died just before the Scotland game. He was called Lee he loved rugby and whiskey. He was passionate and dedicated.  I've always found rugby as a salvation   but recently it has been hard to watch. We grew playing from under 11s. Here is to you marra. Garn safety. Love all your marras.

[whatahitson]

I'm just wondering. No problem if you are a returning poster of course it's just a very strong way to start. Commenting on match threads during the game is a standard thing on the forum that's all. You'll have to ignore the WUMs who are playing games with you, unfortunately. You'll be able to spot them by their terrible opinions on rugby

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