England U20 vs. Scotland U20

England:

15 Jonathan Joseph London Irish
14 Marland Yarde London Irish
13 Elliot Daly London Wasps
12 Ryan Mills Gloucester Rugby
11 Christian Wade London Wasps

10 Owen Farrell Saracens
9 Dan Robson Gloucester Rugby

1 Ryan Bower Leicester Tigers
2 Rob Buchanan Harlequins
3 Will Collier Harlequins
4 Sam Twomey Harlequins
5 Joe Launchbury London Wasps
6 Matt Kvesic (C) Worcester Warriors
7 Matt Everard Leicester Tigers
8 Sam Jones London Wasps

Replacements

Player Club
16 Koree Britton Gloucester Rugby
17 Henry Thomas Sale Sharks
18 Charlie Matthews Harlequins
19 Alex Gray Newcastle Falcons
20 Chris Cook Bath Rugby
21 George Ford Leicester Tigers
22 Ben Ransom Saracens

Scotland:

15. Glenn Bryce (Stirling County)
14. Sam Atkin (Edinburgh Accies)
13. Mark Bennett (Clermont Auvergne)
12. Danny Gilmour (Stirling County)
11. Kerr Gossman (Glasgow Hawks)

10. Duncan Weir CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors)
9. Sean Kennedy (Stirling County)

1. Alex Allan (Loughborough University)
2. David Cherry (Team Northumbria)
3. Colin Phillips (Edinburgh Rugby/Stewart’s Melville)
4. Mitchell Todd (Nottingham)
5. Robert McAlpine (West of Scotland/Glasgow Warriors)
6. Mitch Eadie (Boroughmuir)
7. Hamish Watson (Leicester Tigers)
8. James Tyas (Bath)

Substitutes
16. Richard Ferguson (Melrose)
17. George Hunter (Glasgow Warriors/Glasgow Hawks)
18. Robin Hislop (Edinburgh Rugby/Boroughmuir)
19. Jamie Swanson (Boroughmuir)
20. Jamie Stevenson (Westcombe Park)
21. Craig Jackson (Melrose)
22. Grant Runciman (Melrose)

Lots of changes, for England. Jon Joseph is playing out of position, I'm not sure that he has ever played there. The scrum half continues to be a waek link for England.

Surprised to see Mills in there again, he went off injured in the last game. I hope that they aren't taking this too lightly.

With 3 games in 8 days (or 5 games in 16 days) there might be player welfare issues to consider, especially as these guys are still young. Rotating the squad would therefore become necessary.

I like that we're going for it, but with 5 points in the first game I'm a little surprised we aren't putting out the strongest team and pushing for 5 points this game. We could then rotate for the third game and hope to secure a place as the 4th seed for the semi-final. If we lose this one because we've made too many changes then we'll need to beat South Africa, which would take it out of the players before a semi-final just 4 days later.

Also every player in the squad must start at least one group game it's a tournament rule.

This group is well set up for England to win it,they had a tough but very winnable 1st game against Ireland to get up to speed and now can rest players as Scotland are by far the weakest team in the group.SA will have 2 tough games in 4 days so they won't be as fresh.

With respect to Scotland and acknowledging my earlier point about taking them lightly, they aren’t the strongest opposition in the group and I do recognise the need to change the squad around (Every player must start). However, I’m surprised that there is only one dedicated full back in the squad. Where is Jack Wallace?

That said, there is some serious pace in that back three. On of my criticisms of Andy Short is his lack of top end pace (That and he has t!ts for hands, it’s a shame Jamie Elliott got injured), if these lads can cut loose, they’ll be difficult to stop.

I’m conscious of the fact that we need to get as many bonus points as possible, we could easily lose to SA and Ireland could beat them. The group could be decided on this basis.

Think you might be worrying unnecessarily, Scotland are never the strongest at this age group level, and you routed us in the recent 6Ns. As long as we improve on our last match, and cut our the silly errors, I'll be happy - Scotland are simply looking to ensure they don't get relegated out of the top 12

Interesting write-up in the Scotsman today: Uphill struggle - didn't realise that Hogg received a 2 match ban for a dangerous tackle - naughty boy

Not an inspiring read that one As, just seems to be a damage limitation article preparing us for a battering.

So anything better than the Newbury result earlier this year represents a moral victory, right?!

I just hope Scotland can go out and make a game of it. There is a lot of talent in that England side, most of it exposed in some form or another to the high impact/intensity of the premiership.

It will be a physical encounter to say the least and will defenitly serve as a stern test for Scotland. Although I hope we don't capitulate as out U20 side has done in the past

I know there it was a big win in the 6Ns against Scotland, but the scoreline totally flattered England. Scotland turned over large amounts of our ball and generally proved to be at least as good as England in the breakdown area.

It is right and necessary for England to rotate the squad, however no one should take this game lightly. England have a lot to gain by gettin the 5 point bonus win, so it's not as simple as getting an ugly win.

Good luck to the lads, especially the Wasps guys, hope they make the most of their opportunity here.

I think it will be pretty one sided. Scotland stuck in well against SA but I think England under 20's C team could probably still beat the Scots. The English stand off won the premiership this year - says it all!

20-6 HT

England continue to have t!ts for hands. It is infuriating, they are so much better ball players than this. Some of the passing has been woefully inaccurate and the general play is hurried and panicky. Don't rate the scrum-half, Robson he is a very week link in the team.

England have taken their chances, but with a bit more luck Scotland could be in the lead here.

Scots fans, don't be so gloomy, that Duncan Weir looks a real star in the making.

Weir defo having the better of the 10s battle, but I reckon that Scotland have given their all in that first half, a lot of enterprising play but not many points to show for their adventure - but we can defo hold our heads high. England looked a little disinterested for periods, but Scottish pressure in their faces not making life easy

Supreme effort from the Scots lads in the second -half, 2 late tries give a somewhat flattering scoreline of 39-18 to England - strength and physicality told in the end, but the Scots can be proud of their two well-taken tries

Two games, two bonus point wins. Yet I'm left feeling less than positive. We are going to have to be so much better than this against the Boks. Great credit to Scotland they hit everything that moved.

Good display from Scotland, they have some good young players in there, Weir in particular.

England are just making too many mistakes and were probably saved in the end by better conditioning as the Scots tired more late on.

That was a tough game for England never mind what the score line says,Scotland played well and realy put the pressure on England. England seemed a bit cluelesss at times,but alot otf that was because of Scotland not allowing England an easy ride.

Well played to both teams for a fantastic game.

Based on the last couple of games, I reckon we'll be pushed to beat the Boks, England aren't playing with enough focus at the moment.

We've seen a few combinations the last two games, what do people think will be best for against SA?

I think the forwards more or less pick themselves. Neither SH has looked great, but Cook shades it for me. I've preferred Ford at FH. Thought Mills has probably accompanied him best, but you've probably got to back Farrell to produce the goods in a big match (though bringing him on for Ford if things get very physical could be the more shrewd move). Daly seems a given at OC, Ransom at FB, then I'd probably start Yarde & JJ, bringing Wade on in the 2nd half to make the most of when the teams start to tire.

The scrum-halves have been really rubbish thus far, we are REALLY missing Sam Stuart.

Farrell looked a little jaded during the game. He didn’t seem at home at all and looked like he’s had a long season.

The pack aren’t gelling against their opposition. They are trying to force things too much, the inaccuracy has been appalling. Somebody needs to tell them that if it isn’t on, don’t be bloody speculative.

Team I’d pick?

1. Vunipola
2. Haywood
3. Thomas
4. Launchbury
5. Matthews
6. Kvesic (our best play so far)
7. Everard
8. Gray


9. Sam bloody Stuart
10. Ford

11. Yarde: (looks dangerous)
12. Who knows? Mills hasn’t looked very good and Farrell looked rudey poo here against Ireland.
13. Daly
14. Wade (Again, has got wheels and looks very dangerous)
15. Ransom

I'd play Farrell at 12, just don't play him as a second fly half like they did against Ireland as it clearly doesn't work.

Agree about the scrum halfs, I've not been very impressed with them so far.

snoopster wrote:I'd play Farrell at 12, just don't play him as a second fly half like they did against Ireland as it clearly doesn't work.

Agree about the scrum halfs, I've not been very impressed with them so far.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but Farrell looks a bit disinterested to me, he also looked like he'd forgotten how to play 12 against Ireland to me too. I suppose that we need all of our most talented players on the pitch against the Saffers. I hope he clicks with Ford, becauseif they do we'll be in with a chance.


I'm watching the SA vs. Eire match and the Saffers are clubbing them to death, it seems to me that people don't refer to the size of their players in quite the same [derogatory] way as they do with ours.

Nice try

Edit: Irish try

Regarding Farrell,was he training with the squad during the 6 nations? I don't think he was. All the rest were together then and were again before this match. Plus he's been playing top professional rugby for a season. They haven't. I'm not surprised he hasn't gelled.

I know! How the heck did he get through there???

HammerofThunor wrote:Nice try

Edit: Irish try

Regarding Farrell,was he training with the squad during the 6 nations? I don't think he was. All the rest were together then and were again before this match. Plus he's been playing top professional rugby for a season. They haven't. I'm not surprised he hasn't gelled.

He must have been for the latter half of the competition. He started at IC against Scotland, then was on the bench for the the next (last) game against Ireland.

As someone else hinted at, I'm just not sure his skillset (or the way they have him playing) best complements Ford. Ford would work best with a more direct inclined player outside him.

I was going to say that we can’t bully SA the way we have other teams, but we haven’t! It is my honest opinion that our pack has woefully underperformed, yet they’ve gained two bonus point victories and denied their opposition even a losing bonus point.

I think pressure has something to do with this. We were expected to beat the Irish and the Scots (not only my words, the commentators constantly referred to the crowd getting behind the underdogs throughout both games) yet the SA game is something different. Nobody expects England to romp away with this game, perhaps the lads will relax and just do their best.

Cumbrian, could well be. I suspect that you'll find the Boks your physical equals so skills will need to come to the fore - think you should have enough to take it. Haven't seen the French or Wallabies yet, but I could imagine a Kiwi vs England final, and only one winner right now

Hopefully you are right - it might be facing a team they've not had a comfortable win against earlier in the season is what they need to concentrate their minds and cut out the errors.

Missed the JWC today because I was at my mum's. Just looked at the results, and the New Zealand look ominous, beating Wales 92-0. Unbelievable.

Bonus point win is good for England, even if the performance wasn't. A bonus point against South Africa should be enough to see us into the cup quarter-finals, unless France beat Australia and Australia take the bonus point.

If we lose to South Africa and qualify, we're likely to get New Zealand in the semis. If we beat South Africa, more likely Australia. Neither would be easy, but based on NZ's result today I think we should be praying for a win against South Africa!