England's Summer of Cricket 2021

First topic message reminder :

That's the important wicket. Deserved for Robinson and England.

Now into that brittle middle order.

Soul Requiem wrote:Pathetic again from England but Hameed has to shoulder a lot of the blame for this.

How has Hameed got to shoulder a lot of the blame?

Well I think we can call this now

Can't say I'm surprised. That well controlled first session, with Jadeja constantly nagging away and keeping a lid on the scoring while the fast bowlers weren't flogged to death set it up nicely.
Once a break came a collapse was always likely.

But I have to take my hat off to Bumrah for some superb stuff in this spell ... Absolutely perfect use of reverse swing

Root might survive some of those balls...none of the others ever would.

On the plus side , I'm going to get an early night...

Duty281 wrote:Very poor from Moeen. Not at test level with the bat and should never have been re-selected.

Averaging about 15 with the bat and 50 with the ball this series. But if you criticise him, you risk being accused of unfairly maligning him, even though those stats are horrific!

Pope was exposed for his complete lack of feet movement
You could bowl 50 deliveries like that one and Root will move his feet and keep them out

Bairstow..can't fault him.....he just came and probably didn't even blink , not knowing what hit him

Nor can you blame Moeen .....hard to keep that out¨early on

Haseeb was the one with eye set, figured pitch ..should have kept it out

Duty281 wrote:Very poor from Moeen. Not at test level with the bat and should never have been re-selected.

that's called maligning....to leave out the rest of shambles and pick up the piece called Ali

eirebilly wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Pathetic again from England but Hameed has to shoulder a lot of the blame for this.

How has Hameed got to shoulder a lot of the blame?

Yeah that's very harsh on Hameed , Soul ! He played really well , just lost concentration for a moment ; and Malan was just as culpable for his run out.

I'm not "blaming" anyone because I think it's pretty obvious that India in this situation are simply too good. They effectively won this match over days three and four and today is the inevitable coup-de-grace.

VTR wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Very poor from Moeen. Not at test level with the bat and should never have been re-selected.

Averaging about 15 with the bat and 50 with the ball this series. But if you criticise him, you risk being accused of unfairly maligning him, even though those stats are horrific!

Yeah, as I said at the start of the series, if you pick Leach over Moeen you lose a tiny amount with the bat (Leach's test average is 14), but gain an awful lot more with the ball.

alfie wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Pathetic again from England but Hameed has to shoulder a lot of the blame for this.

How has Hameed got to shoulder a lot of the blame?

Yeah that's very harsh on Hameed , Soul !  He played really well , just lost concentration for a moment ; and Malan was just as culpable for his run out.

I'm not "blaming" anyone because I think it's pretty obvious that India in this situation are simply too good. They effectively won this match over days three and four and today is the inevitable coup-de-grace.

I also would not like to blame anyone as this has been a supreme session of bowling by India, especially Bumrah who has been scintillating.

If i was to be hypercritical, i would say that the turning point in this match was Joe Root's tactics after lunch yesterday which allowed India some very easy runs and important momentum.

Yadav to replace Bumrah I suspect

eirebilly wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Pathetic again from England but Hameed has to shoulder a lot of the blame for this.

How has Hameed got to shoulder a lot of the blame?

By doing nothing this morning, inviting pressure onto not only him but the team as a whole. It was a case of carrying on what he was doing yesterday. The moment the scoreboard stops Kohli knew he could attack at will.

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Very poor from Moeen. Not at test level with the bat and should never have been re-selected.

that's called maligning....to leave out the rest of shambles and pick up the piece called Ali

And same with Moeen : I'm certainly not going to hammer him for failing with the bat against Jadeja on a fifth day pitch. He's in the team as the only realistic way of balancing five bowlers and a theoretically deep batting order in the absence of Stokes. Like a lot of them , he's a marginal choice but there aren't too many obvious alternatives.

He may well not be selected next week ; but that would be down to the limitations of his bowling and the priorities of the team at Old Trafford.

I'm sure the Internet will be alive with call for heads all over tonight but perhaps we'd be better off admitting India have just outplayed us...

Soul Requiem wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Pathetic again from England but Hameed has to shoulder a lot of the blame for this.

How has Hameed got to shoulder a lot of the blame?

By doing nothing this morning, inviting pressure onto not only him but the team as a whole. It was a case of carrying on what he was doing yesterday. The moment the scoreboard stops Kohli knew he could attack at will.

Ok, although I don't know what instructions he received. Maybe he was instructed to go out there and simply protect his wicket?

I really do not believe that a lot of this batting collapse and be lain on his shoulders. Bumrah and Jadeja simply produced match (series) winning spells with the ball.

eirebilly wrote:

alfie wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Pathetic again from England but Hameed has to shoulder a lot of the blame for this.

How has Hameed got to shoulder a lot of the blame?

Yeah that's very harsh on Hameed , Soul !  He played really well , just lost concentration for a moment ; and Malan was just as culpable for his run out.

I'm not "blaming" anyone because I think it's pretty obvious that India in this situation are simply too good. They effectively won this match over days three and four and today is the inevitable coup-de-grace.

I also would not like to blame anyone as this has been a supreme session of bowling by India, especially Bumrah who has been scintillating.

If i was to be hypercritical, i would say that the turning point in this match was Joe Root's tactics after lunch yesterday which allowed India some very easy runs and important momentum.

I very much agree with that ! It may not have made any difference , of course : but it was quite obvious that the tactics he employed almost instantly released the pressure that had been built up over the previous couple of hours.

Predictably , Kohli has not made the same mistake today ; though of course he has had superior options at his disposal and the advantage of real scoreboard pressure.

The reverse swing available today after a couple of sunny days has helped a bit too

alfie wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Very poor from Moeen. Not at test level with the bat and should never have been re-selected.

that's called maligning....to leave out the rest of shambles and pick up the piece called Ali

And same with Moeen : I'm certainly not going to hammer him for failing with the bat against Jadeja on a fifth day pitch. He's in the team as the only realistic way of balancing five bowlers and a theoretically deep batting order in the absence of Stokes. Like a lot of them , he's a marginal choice but there aren't too many obvious alternatives.

He may well not be selected next week ; but that would be down to the limitations of his bowling and the priorities of the team at Old Trafford.

I'm sure the Internet will be alive with call for heads all over tonight but perhaps we'd be better off admitting India have just outplayed us...

Key difference in this game has been: Root's awful captaincy (second time this series) which gifted India runs; Bumrah's world-class spell on a dead pitch to blow a hole in the middle order.

On Moeen, the issue is he doesn't provide balance because his batting is barely any better than Leach's (and probably worse than Bess' at this moment), and also I'm not sure this England team requires balance as they're only playing one genuine tail-ender in Anderson.

It was the same in the first innings; Pope got out playing a shot he'd failed execute numerous times already but because he was the top scorer he's not blamed. We'd recovered well from 60 odd for 5 but the game was there for the taking, tiring bowler, a dead pitch and a big lead there for the taking but poor game awareness cost us.

Had to go away for an hour, and Jasprit Bumrah has made me regret each missing minute! He took the pitch out of the equation, Jadeja brought the pitch into the equation, and here we are!

Can England's depth in batting somehow save them? Umesh or Siraj not quite able to take the pitch, still not quite lively, out of the equation like Bumrah did. Root survived a brilliant examination from Bumrah and is still there. There is Overton and Robinson, no mugs with the bat, to come yet. An England win has long gone out of the window, but can they save it?

In their quest to attack the stumps, both Umesh and Siraj drifting too many times towards the pads and letting easy runs and more importantly, easy rotation of the strike. Had a fit Shami been available to partner Jasprit here, it could have been...
Kohli should give an exploratory couple of overs to Lord S now!

If Woakes and Root survive to tea, think England will still have a half-decent chance of saving this.

msp83 wrote:In their quest to attack the stumps, both Umesh and Siraj drifting too many times towards the pads and letting easy runs and more importantly, easy rotation of the strike. Had a fit Shami been available to partner Jasprit here, it could have been...
Kohli should give an exploratory couple of overs to Lord S now!

Tehy are doing OK...sooner they will get Woakes...and Root's a class apart...he will pick your for runs....but in doing so increases the chances of missing and falling LBW

Yadav has bowled well and not allowed the absence of Shami be felt....he too will get reverse sooner

msp83 wrote:If Woakes and Root survive to tea, think England will still have a half-decent chance of saving this.

they have ZERO chance of saving this
edit
When the next wicket falls.....two or 3 will go down in a heap

Duty , I take your point about the team balance thing being less important if only Jimmy is considered a real tailender - though should note that it is only in this game that the presence of Woakes at eight  and Overton nine has really extended the batting.

The real issue with Moeen is that he is a bit of a horses for courses selection (even disregarding the runs he might make). On the typical "English" pitch which aids the seamers to some extent throughout , he can do a very good job as the extra link : he has a good strike rate and often provides the finishing touches to a pace attack which is largely on top. Quite a few games where he's done exactly what England needed - including a couple against India !
What he cannot do is provide the sort of control that Jadeja does for India - or indeed any real control : and on a pitch like this that means that he can't be used to rest and rotate the fast bowlers.
I had no problem with his selection for the earlier games. This one was always likely to present a problem if India got a good start in the third innings. Might have been a problem for Leach too ?

Imagine the selectors will be having a bit of a discussion this week.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:If Woakes and Root survive to tea, think England will still have a half-decent chance of saving this.

they have ZERO chance of saving this

I'd never say zero about a Test Match. Have seen too many !

But you'd get damn good odds against it

What a good innings again, from Joe Root. Batting on another planet.
Think Jadeja has been rested sufficiently, bring him back on.
Also, don't think Kohli should go for the new ball straight away. The old one is doing just about fine...

Yeah, Jadeja back on. Is it for an over before the new ball or is he going to settle into another spell?
Now that Umesh has bowled a bit of a spell, Kohli may not go to the new ball straight away.

spin at one end is a batter way of controlling and attacking thew game for Ind

Woakes trying to just pad away Jadeja from outside leg. His best way to survive Jadeja. Batting with common sense, is Woakes. He has played a few uppishly, edged a couple, but is doing a job.

msp83 wrote:Yeah, Jadeja back on. Is it for an over before the new ball or is he going to settle into another spell?
Now that Umesh has bowled a bit of a spell, Kohli may not go to the new ball straight away.

MSP
my man Shardul...most successful bowler in this inning in terms of average and Strike Rate

Lord S does it again. Jasprit can't get through Joe? No problem!

Thakur adds to his already good match with the dismissal of Root...

Bit lucky perhaps that Joe managed to chop that on. But who cares ? He's driven the final nail into the England coffin now .

India have been excellent today. Intensity kept up even through the quiet bits ; and deservedly rewarded

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:Yeah, Jadeja back on. Is it for an over before the new ball or is he going to settle into another spell?
Now that Umesh has bowled a bit of a spell, Kohli may not go to the new ball straight away.

MSP
my man Shardul...most successful bowler in this inning in terms of average and Strike Rate

Yes, KPF. Shardul, the Player of the Match really. Despite Rohit, Despite Bumrah, despite everyone!

If Jasprit feels up to another spell right now, he should be back. He deserves a lot more than those 2 wickets against his name for this innings, for that remarkable spell.

Yes, he's back. Will be 2 or 3 overs in this spell as Tea is close. Get one more, Jas!

Rahane is becoming a serious liability for the team now! Completely let Bumrah down there!

There are drops and then there are Drops. This wasn't an easy take, but when your best bowler is in the middle of such a performance, letting him down, is just criminal!

msp83 wrote:There are drops and then there are Drops. This wasn't an easy take, but when your best bowler is in the middle of such a performance, letting him down, is just criminal!

It's k....he did well to get to the ball...was too far out¨
Next game Vihari will be in for Rahane

msp83 wrote:There are drops and then there are Drops. This wasn't an easy take, but when your best bowler is in the middle of such a performance, letting him down, is just criminal!

It's ok....he did well to get to the ball...was too far out¨
Next game Vihari will be in for Rahane

Looks like one of those days where Bumrah's performance is never going to be reflected by the wickets...

Coverton surviving every over
Bumrah is Bending it like Beckham

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:There are drops and then there are Drops. This wasn't an easy take, but when your best bowler is in the middle of such a performance, letting him down, is just criminal!

It's ok....he did well to get to the ball...was too far out¨
Next game Vihari will be in for Rahane

Hope it'll be Suryakumar and not Vihari.

Well that's the session that's decided the game. The spell from Bumrah, on a dead pitch, worthy of winning any test.

Thought Bumrah had another one then...drs to Overton's aid . But Yadav gets the eighth anyway with the aid of a sharp catch...

You chaps giving Thakur the PoTM ? Fair case I suppose just on figures : two very handy knocks and important wickets.

Think I'd still lean to Rohit or Bumrah : one for the decisive innings ; the other for the spell that settled things today on top of his first innings efforts.

A spot of tea now before the victory lap.

Umesh among the wickets now. Fitting end to the session. I said this would be the crucial session, was hoping for 3 or 4 wickets. Bumrah and Jadeja did the job in the first 40 minutes, and then Shardul rubbed it in with the big one. Fabulous!

Woakes gone as well now.

Credit to India they have bowled very well in this session and will deservedly win this Test having been the better team across the 5 days.

Umesh also tailed it in with reverse....Woakes eyes lit up, couldn't keep the flick down
Umesh's reverse are a completely diffrent lower trajectory and skidding off a good length unlike Bumrah's high release yorkers

alfie wrote:Duty , I take your point about the team balance thing being less important if only Jimmy is considered a real tailender - though should note that it is only in this game that the presence of Woakes at eight  and Overton nine has really extended the batting.

The real issue with Moeen is that he is a bit of a horses for courses selection (even disregarding the runs he might make). On the typical "English" pitch which aids the seamers to some extent throughout , he can do a very good job as the extra link : he has a good strike rate and often provides the finishing touches to a pace attack which is largely on top. Quite a few games where he's done exactly what England needed - including a couple against India !
What he cannot do is provide the sort of control that Jadeja does for India - or indeed any real control : and on a pitch like this that means that he can't be used to rest and rotate the fast bowlers.
I had no problem with his selection for the earlier games. This one was always likely to present a problem if India got a good start in the third innings. Might have been a problem for Leach too ?

Imagine the selectors will be having a bit of a discussion this week.

Selectors haven't got a lot right, but in fairness this is an utter freak time with the number of injuries England have suffered. Can't remember a test team being so injury-hit.

Anderson (especially) and Robinson sorely need breaks, but will they both get one for the fifth test? Can Woakes play back-to-back tests having only just returned?

msp83 wrote:Umesh among the wickets now. Fitting end to the session. I said this would be the crucial session, was hoping for 3 or 4 wickets. Bumrah and Jadeja did the job in the first 40 minutes, and then Shardul rubbed it in with the big one. Fabulous!

As I said some point in last session yesterday...commentators started getting partisan & setting wrong expectations
As if Eng had any real chance of a win
As if Eng should go for a win
and as if Not having Ashwin was grave crime that will cost Ind the game and win it for Eng

As I said before....and we can all see Ashwin point became moot & a non issue
He will sit out next game too.....and Vihari will be our second spinning option ife needed when he comes in for rahane and bats at 5

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:There are drops and then there are Drops. This wasn't an easy take, but when your best bowler is in the middle of such a performance, letting him down, is just criminal!

It's ok....he did well to get to the ball...was too far out¨
Next game Vihari will be in for Rahane

Hope it'll be Suryakumar and not Vihari.

Being up in the series (presumably) I have a feeling that they will be more inclined to stay aggressive and take the chance on SKY.

Jinx has been so important to this Indian teams growth with his good record away from home and against seam, plus his slip catching to the spinners in particular and as Kohli's most valuable lieutenant for a long time. He just isn't doing it with the bat anymore though, sadly. It would be a shame for such a likable character and important player in this era of Indian Test cricket to drift out in this manner. I hope he can re-find form and come back at some point.

king_carlos wrote:Woakes gone as well now.

Credit to India they have bowled very well in this session and will deservedly win this Test having been the better team across the 5 days.

England have shot themselves in the foot in so many ways, with dropped catches and dodgy captaincy, and lost a test match they had no business losing (for the second time this series). But nice that this one is, in the end, decided by a world-class spell of bowling rather than outright ineptitude (as in the second test).

alfie wrote:Thought Bumrah had another one then...drs to Overton's aid . But Yadav gets the eighth anyway with the aid of a sharp catch...

You chaps giving Thakur the PoTM ? Fair case I suppose just on figures : two very handy knocks and important wickets.

Think I'd still lean to Rohit or Bumrah : one for the decisive innings ; the other for the spell that settled things today on top of his first innings efforts.

A spot of tea now before the victory lap.

Its not just the numbers from Shardul. Its also the context of the game. Without him in the first innings, there would have been no way that Rohit's knock making such a difference. Without his 2nd innings performance and his partnership with Pant, Rohit's work would have been undone. To add to that, he got Joe Root out! Even before he reached a hundred! He made sure we didn't miss the best current test spinner. That in itself, coming in for Ashwin, would have been lots of pressure on Shardul, though KPF may have spared him, I wouldn't have, and many others would not have had he failed. But Shardul is winning all us over...