Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

Will Alec Baldwin go to jail for the manslaughter of that lady on the filmset under American law or is it considered an industrial accident?

Doesnt seem like he's in trouble just yet. How do you kill someone with a prop gun that fires blanks?

Edit: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/prop-gun-using-blanks-still-052227936.html

"As for the question of criminal responsibility, that’s for law enforcement to investigate. But it must be noted that in the vast majority of cases, the person who pulled the trigger wasn’t remotely at fault. They were handed a prop and assured it would function normally — and it didn’t."

Guns dont kill people, rappers do.

[Pal Joey]

Good thing Australia has better outcomes, as it has a higher rate of obesity, smoking and cancer than us. Also higher rate of alcoholism in females (but not males).

Yeah... but... we're more spread out

Especially the obese people when they sit down

They should be charged for two tickets on trains, buses and planes. Or have limited hours in The Food Court.

[super_realist]

Good thing Australia has better outcomes, as it has a higher rate of obesity, smoking and cancer than us. Also higher rate of alcoholism in females (but not males).

Then its even more impressive then isnt it?
Interestingly the Global Obesity Observatory has UK and Australia as being the same when it comes to being overweight or obese, a quite revolting 35.6%

We could spiral into endless detail with anecdotal things e.g. are Australia's cancer figures also bloated by other factors such as skin cancer from much higher levels of sunshine?

Anyway, bottom line is advanced western democracies have it within their capacity to provide universal healthcare free at the point of use. The question is whether or not the people in those societies are happy to contribute enough to ensure it stays that way. If not then it means raising some very tricky questions about how a health service should be run and what it's priorities are. That's a very difficult political debate to have openly, honestly and informatively as it could signal what kind of society we actually want to be. It's a debate that perhaps has to be had but how to have it without the political baggage would be a challenge.

Im not saying people shoyld be contributing more. I simply said the system needs to become more efficient, and if charging a nominal fee to stop wastage of missed appointments, whats wrong with that?
You have to ask other things like why the hell is the NHS prescribing Ibuprofen for example. It costs 50p in any Chemist.

[JAS]

That’s a good example to be fair, ibuprofen costs a nominal amount otc but yet, if it’s prescribed why can’t the suppliers or pharmacies charge the same amount? The amount the the likes of Boots charge the NHS for drugs available cheaply otc is bloody eye popping…yet nobody questions it.

[dynamark]

The drugs thing is pretty complex isnt it ? Companies are encouraged to invest and do research on the basis they will get 10 years or whatever of sole agency.I had a mate years ago who was at Boots and after a heavy night apres ski she offered us a new drug Ibruprofen to ease the hangover.Must be 35 years ago.Richest man I ever met made pain killers and supplied the NHS.
When someone is prescribed a drug how often is that reviewed and they then get to come off of that medication ?

[super_realist]

That’s a good example to be fair, ibuprofen costs a nominal amount otc but yet, if it’s prescribed why can’t the suppliers or pharmacies charge the same amount? The amount the the likes of Boots charge the NHS for drugs available cheaply otc is bloody eye popping…yet nobody questions it.

Quite. Its almost as if Boots is seen as the state Pharmacist.
A lot of people will rightly moan about Amazon not paying their tax but the likes of Boots and other pharmaceutical companies are effectively defrauding the NHS and no one says a word, because the NHS is the state religion.

Clearly there should be a list of drugs that are available over the counter for virtually nothing and which the NHS should absolutely not be prescribing.

[JuliusHMarx]

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/1a-over-the-counter-leaflet-v1.pdf

[super_realist]

About 40 years too late.

[beninho]

This nonsense fishing argument with France is funny. I've seen the press claiming the French have backed down, and being all triumphant, but not seen as much about all the extra permits issued in Jersey, which is basically what the French wanted.

Why does everything need to be spun as a win or a battle. Its just so tedious.

[super_realist]

This nonsense fishing argument with France is funny. I've seen the press claiming the French have backed down, and being all triumphant, but not seen as much about all the extra permits issued in Jersey,  which is basically what the French wanted.

Why does everything need to be spun as a win or a battle. Its just so tedious.

Sounds like the French issue should be with the EU, not the UK.
The agreement is that French boats require to provide evidence they have a history of fishing in UK waters to be granted a licence, if they cant, they dont get a licence. Simple stuff. Not sure why they are complaining.

Its just Macron posturing because hes got an election coming up. Ironic they can stop a UK trawler but cant stop dozens of illegal dinghys conducting human traffiking in their waters.

[JAS]

Its just Macron posturing because hes got an election coming up. Ironic they can stop a UK trawler but cant stop dozens of illegal dinghys conducting human traffiking in their waters.

Not really ironic...The first sentence explains ALL of the 2nd one not just the trawler part of it!!

[beninho]

Good to see that place I'm MK refusing to serve Tommy Robinson, the convicted stalker and libeler of a teenage boy. If I had a business he'd probably be soneone I wouldn't want associated with it either.

[beninho]

Unsure what's worse, Owen Paterson and his, pretty dodgy dealings. Or the Conservative mps who are trying to change the rules to get him out of a suspension.

The guy was investigated by a cross party group of Mps.

Oh, it seems they want to abandon the whole standards committee.

[super_realist]

Unsure what's worse, Owen Paterson and his, pretty dodgy dealings. Or the Conservative mps who are trying to change the rules to get him out of a suspension.

The guy was investigated by a cross party group of Mps.

Oh, it seems they want to abandon the whole standards committee.

Could ask why Corbyn hasnt been chucked out of the Labour party too, but does anyone really xare avout Patterson or Corbyn?

I am however heartily sick of Boris Johnson and I really wish Labour werent so inept and unelectable.

[JAS]

Unsure what's worse, Owen Paterson and his, pretty dodgy dealings. Or the Conservative mps who are trying to change the rules to get him out of a suspension.

The guy was investigated by a cross party group of Mps.

Oh, it seems they want to abandon the whole standards committee.

Could ask why Corbyn hasnt been chucked out of the Labour party too, but does anyone really xare avout Patterson or Corbyn?

I am however heartily sick of Boris Johnson  and I really wish Labour werent so inept and unelectable.

Inept I'm struggling to disagree with, unelectable though? Last 2-3 elections many people have held their nose and made a choice of what they consider the least worst option, why should that be any different next time round, i.e. why do Labour have to be held to much higher standards.

Regarding Paterson and the Tory MP's trying to change the rules Ben....they have an 80 seat majority (which WE gave them) so they feel that they can do what they like. Why did we do that? See Super's view on how electable Labour are.

[JAS]

Meanwhile my region has gone from being one of the best areas in England for pretty much most of the pandemic for low infections to the highest. Why? Literally hundreds of people over a period of time have been given false negative results from PCR tests...effectively making them superspreaders.

What's more surprising is that such a failing hasn't happened before now...absolute blinder of a decision this one... https://bylinetimes.com/2020/11/09/119-million-covid-19-testing-contract-four-month-old-gene-analysis-firm/

[beninho]

Corbyn is currently an independent mp I believe.

Keir Starmer is electable, he's just tied in so many knots. It's going to be hard to win again, they really need am agreement with other parties at next election. And shoukd have done at the last one.

[beninho]

I dont think anyone has to care about Paterson, but people shoukd care about corruption.

Maybe people don't care about corruption though.

[beninho]

This guy wants to change the rules on parliamentary standards, unsure why...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/conservative-mp-karl-mccartney-broke-rules-watchdog-2021-10%3famp

[super_realist]

Do youbreally care about Owen Paterson and Parliamentary standards or is it just that he's a Tory and it gives you something to moan about?

[super_realist]

Corbyn is currently an independent mp I believe.

Keir Starmer is electable, he's just tied in so many knots.  It's going to be hard to win again, they really need am agreement with other parties at next election. And shoukd have done at the last one.

He's still in the Labour Party though, he just doesn't have the whip.
Starmer isnt electable under the current Labour setup. He needs to kick out the Momentum lunatic mob and move back to centre ground. Everyone knows thats the only way.
The only way to be elected in this country is to be centre left or centre right. Starmer seems like a decent enough person, butbhes too much of a fence sitter and frightened to actually do what needs done in his party.

[beninho]

Do youbreally care about Owen Paterson and Parliamentary standards or is it just that he's a Tory and it gives you something to moan about?

I care about corruption in politics and government. I care that any mp who is deemed to have breached the rules set, in order to comply with standards, that shoukd be high, faces a punishment.

Do you not care?

[super_realist]

I care in general, i dont care that you seem to pick and choose what matters to your particular agenda.

[beninho]

Corbyn is currently an independent mp I believe.

Keir Starmer is electable, he's just tied in so many knots.  It's going to be hard to win again, they really need am agreement with other parties at next election. And shoukd have done at the last one.

He's still in the Labour Party though, he just doesn't have the whip.
Starmer isnt electable under the current Labour setup. He needs to kick out the Momentum lunatic mob and move back to centre ground. Everyone knows thats the only way.
The only way to be elected in this country is to be centre left or centre right.  Starmer seems like a decent enough person, butbhes too much of a fence sitter and frightened to actually do what needs done in his party.

He is doing a lot which is upsetting the momentum types, im sure you are fully aware of that? That's why so many anti starmer messages are around, and why he was heckled at his speech.

As I said he is tied in knots, and it isn't remotely easy

[beninho]

I care in general, i dont care that you seem to pick and choose what matters to your particular agenda.

Show me a similar instance of a Labour or other mp, and I'll likely have the same opinion. Corruption isn't good in politics. I have no agenda on this one.

[super_realist]

Not necessarily to do with corruption by I note you didnt even bat an eye that Corbyn, Abbot and McDonnell were at pains to defend an ex Labour MP who was convicted of threatening tonthrow acid in someones face.

You never seem to be condemnatory of Labour having profligate expenses, for example Angela Rayner spending excessive expenses ans taxpayers money on airpods, whilst claiming others waste money.

Kevin Barron broke the ministerial code for Labour, were you raging about that? I bet you didnt even know about it, but it seem you seek out transgressions from political views you disagree with. How about Rosena Alin Khan who has broken the code of conduct three times?

Im against all corruption amd breaches of codes, it seems you only care about it when someone who you disagree with does it.

[super_realist]

Corbyn is currently an independent mp I believe.

Keir Starmer is electable, he's just tied in so many knots.  It's going to be hard to win again, they really need am agreement with other parties at next election. And shoukd have done at the last one.

He's still in the Labour Party though, he just doesn't have the whip.
Starmer isnt electable under the current Labour setup. He needs to kick out the Momentum lunatic mob and move back to centre ground. Everyone knows thats the only way.
The only way to be elected in this country is to be centre left or centre right.  Starmer seems like a decent enough person, butbhes too much of a fence sitter and frightened to actually do what needs done in his party.

He is doing a lot which is upsetting the momentum types, im sure you are fully aware of that? That's why so many anti starmer messages are around, and why he was heckled at his speech.

As I said he is tied in knots, and it isn't remotely easy

Yes it is easy. Is he going to win the next elextion if he maintains the status quo and party divisions?. No, he has to make a change or Labour are finished. They have to move back to Blairite politics, and he has to declare that if Momentum dont like that they are free to leave ajd set up their own Commie party.
Labour dont have an option, and so the choice is easy. Evolve or die.

The Tories have left so many open goals, and it should be easy to score a goal.

[beninho]

If anyone breaches the regulations they shoukd get the punishment they deserve. Its pretty simple. If it becomes high profile, such as this case, I may notice it. If I notice it, and am a bit bored or at a loose end, I may comment.

But, I general I don't think I have to drop everything to pass comment on every mp to keep SR happy.

It's a pretty simple premise.

[super_realist]

I agree they should face punishment, but you never seem to condemn anyone from the left for anything

[beninho]

The thing with Paterson was, this all came out weeks ago, I remember reading it, and thinking it's a bit dodgy, not sure if I passed any comment on here though. If the Mps and it seems the government weren't pushing to stop him being punished, I probably still wouldn't have commented, but its become a bigger story now.

I do t know the vast majority of people punished for breaches, so don't comment on them, but if it becomes a big story I may do so.

Owen Paterson seems like a massive naughty naughty boy

[super_realist]

If he'd been Labour I doubt you'd comment, that's the point I'm making. Im not excusing Paterson, but breaking parliament codes is done on all sides and pretty regularly with no comment, but all of a sudden this is comment worthy and scandalous?

[beninho]

Yes, if a Labour mp was facing punishment and a Labour government looked to whip mps into voting for an amendment in order to arrange a review if the system and looking to get the mp off scot free. I would find it pretty poor.

But, I do t think we have a recent comparator for that.

[super_realist]

If you say so......

[dynamark]

I dont see them trying to get him off scot free its more about having a system that can be challenged .Its only a 30 day suspension guilty as found.
Starmer the individual is just about feasible but not with what he has been unfortunate to have to work with .Far too many labour MPs with little or no status and some very unlikeable characters .Labour shadow persons rarely seem to have an in depth knowledge and do not communicate very well.Amused me last week when BBC had McDonnel on their budget programmes to comment ,surely he is not qualified based on track record

[super_realist]

I dont see them trying to get him off scot free its more about having a system that can be challenged .Its only a 30 day suspension guilty as found.
Starmer the individual is just about feasible but not with what he has been unfortunate to have to work with .Far too many labour MPs with little or no status and some very unlikeable characters .Labour shadow persons rarely seem to have an in depth knowledge and do not communicate very well.Amused me last week when BBC had McDonnel on their budget programmes to comment ,surely he is not qualified based on track record

The BBC news coverage is now a complete joke. It has become a lecture rather than a news service, incredibly biased and preachy.  I used to like the BBC, but i cant remember the last time I watched it.  Im paying a licence for something I simply dont use.
Like the NHS it needs serious reform and needs to move to a subscription based format.

[dynamark]

BBC this morning was poor again ,I usually wake up to radio 5 and COP has given Nicki Campbell the chance to rant on about his pet subjects lots of innaccurate comment and Rachel Burden getting overexcited and intterupting her contributors.JVT put her down nicely when she was jumping in as he spoke .Again a lot of making up as she went along .Really poor and not very professional .
I think the BBC know they are on borrowed time TBH another sacred thing that needs reform

[super_realist]

I quite like Nicky Campbell, but I got put off by him seemingly inferring every weather event as human induced climate change.

The BBC news coverage on their website of COP26 is insufferable too. They shoehorn climate change into absolutely everything.

Campbell should have stuck to talking about the "West Kent Hunt"

[dynamark]

Campbell is what I would call a 'wordsmith' very clever and articulate which is why he is highly paid in some top jobs at the BBC
I do enjoy when people stand up to the constant interruption no idea why more dont do it.

[beninho]

While I do think the bbc is a bit to right wing with its news and Kuemnsberg is basically a pr machine for the cons. I have no issues with it in general. I'd hate having to subscribe for the radio coverage or the website though.

[beninho]

Cummings again saying labour shoukd have a women leader, after Boris struggled against Rayner. I'd have no issues with Lisa Nandy. She was OK in the leadership election.

[super_realist]

She wasn't bad, and certainly better than Rebecca Wrong Daily.

What Labour have to do though in my opinion is offer credble alternative policies instead of just supporting SAGE dictated government policy due to Covid.

Funny how the left want to listen to Cummings now and trust what he says now though isnt it?

[super_realist]

While I do think the bbc is a bit to right wing with its news and Kuemnsberg is basically a pr machine for the cons. I have no issues with it in general. I'd hate having to subscribe for the radio coverage or the website though.

BBC right wing? . Theyve actually had to apologise for being too left wing and the new director went in there stating he wanted to mvoe it from the left to more centre.

[beninho]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/03/football-fan-jailed-for-racially-abusing-rashford-sancho-and-saka-after-final-euro-2020

How stupid are some people. But how can it take Facebook 3 days to remove racial abuse.

[super_realist]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/03/football-fan-jailed-for-racially-abusing-rashford-sancho-and-saka-after-final-euro-2020

How stupid are some people. But how can it take Facebook 3 days to remove racial abuse.

They're only interested in usage Ben

[Soul Requiem]

While I do think the bbc is a bit to right wing with its news and Kuemnsberg is basically a pr machine for the cons. I have no issues with it in general. I'd hate having to subscribe for the radio coverage or the website though.

The BBC is definitely more left wing than it is right wing.

[super_realist]

While I do think the bbc is a bit to right wing with its news and Kuemnsberg is basically a pr machine for the cons. I have no issues with it in general. I'd hate having to subscribe for the radio coverage or the website though.

The BBC is definitely more left wing than it is right wing.

Blatantly, not just the news, but Newsnight, Question Time, Have I got News for You, Mock the Week.
Doesnt help that mad lefty Lewis Goodall is policy director for Newsnight.

[beninho]

Personally I don't think that the bbc is either left or right, I think its problems are caused by it trying to be too balanced. But I only look at it in a news way.

Entertainment shows shouldn't really matter, but satirical shows will always bash the ones in power, that's just normal. And comedians are majority left leaning I'm general.

But, I do dislike the political influence over the bbc.

[super_realist]

Personally I don't think that the bbc is either left or right, I think its problems are caused by it trying to be too balanced.  But I only look at it in a news way.

Entertainment shows shouldn't really matter, but satirical shows will always bash the ones in power, that's just normal.  And comedians are majority left leaning I'm general.

But, I do dislike the political influence over the bbc.

But it isnt impartial, thats the point and is demonstrated by how they make up the panels of their current affairs programme, the staff they have behind them, the presenters, the fact that controllers are having to curtail lefty presenters from sharing particular views on social media like Lineker, like Maitliss having to apologise for left wing bias, sacking their only right of centre presenter (Andrew Neil), BBC news reporters being reprimanded for tweets on Brexit, flags, like the DG actually admitting left wing bias etc

[JAS]

The BBC (just like any other organisation) will have the full range of the left right spectrum across its staff (there was a time when that certainly wasn’t the case but probably not now) The fact that those on the left say it’s right wing biased and those on the right say it’s left wing biased probably tells you that over the piece it’s broadly neutral.
It’s not the left or right bias that gets me it’s the utterly poor standard of reporting and debate, all banal sound byte and no in depth research/debate. The constant interruption by interviewers after they’ve asked a question and the interviewee starts to answer is pathetic. The hectoring to get a politician to make a certain admission etc…I watch some interviews and think jeez, no wonder politicians lie through their teeth.
I will say this though, there are clearly machinations going on regarding how much the Tories despise the whole principle of a State broadcaster and that can cut 2 ways. Some in the BBC will fear for the future and tow the line, others will be more “you hate us so it’s gloves off”.

[beninho]

I do laugh at tge idiots who moan about tweets by people employed by the bbc. Gary Lineker and any of them shoukd be able to say what they want on social media, within reason obvs, and the bbc shoukd tell anyone who complains to sod off.

But, its funny that it was the former tory politician who had the issues with people expressing personal views on twitter, which is absolutely pathetic. But, the tory director complaining about keftvwing bias tells you it's just another way of political point scoring.

[beninho]

Motion passes 248 - 221, and with it goes the suspension for Patterson. Aswell as any investigations into some of those who voted to stop it. All for a nicely run process presuded over by the Tory Party. Its all pretty shameful.

[Sponsored content]