Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

First topic message reminder :

Scotland vs South Africa
1pm, Saturday 13th November 2021
Amazon Prime
BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

Ref: Angus Gardner (Aus)

Not sure what to expect from Scotland as injuries could put a bit of pressure on the pack selections. Skinner was good against Australia and our alternatives are recalling a recalcitrant R Gray, starting a very green Hodgson or asking for 60 minutes from Cummings off an injury. Whilst Ashman got plaudits for his try and grew into the game, he also made some basic errors that can't be made against T1 sides and losing Turner would leave us choosing between him and a relatively undercooked McInally. In the backs, Steyn will likely come into the starters after a decent cameo but some analysis will be needed on how to create line-breaks against a strong rush defensive centre pairing of De Allende - Am.

For South Africa, the team is likely the same 23 as vs Wales, only possible changes could be Nkosi has sorted out his passport issues and will be back in the mix, and Fassi might come in for Willemse who failed an HIA. As for Bok tactics, it is very simple and there is nothing sinister or mysterious about it. If you look at their complete arsenal of attack, it is mauls, exploiting penalty advantage, counter, grubber kicks in the 22 and kick pass. The biggest weakness of the Boks is their predictable phase attack, they don't offload, they don't pass much, they don't really run angles to expose weak shoulders and they don't change the point of contact.

Scotland
Schoeman - McInally - Z Fagerson (Bhatti - Ashman - Kebble)
Skinner - Gilchrist (Hodgson)
Haining - M Fagerson - Ritchie (Watson)

Price - Russell (G Horne - Hastings)
Scott - Harris
DVDM - Hogg - McClean (Kinghorn)

South Africa
Nche - Mbonambi - Nyakane (Kitsoff - Marx - Koch)
Etzebeth - Mostert (De Jager)
Kolisi - Vermeulen - Smith (Wiese)

Jantjies - Jantjies (Reiach - Pollard)
De Allende - Am
Mapimpi - Le Roux - Kriel (Steyn)

Tramptastic wrote:Is Kolbe worth punting to 15? He's a devastating broken field runner and defensively sound like. Would open up other spots on the wing too!

He is likely the more creative player yes, but I think our system worked in 2019 when we had Le Roux as a playmaker and Kolbe the finisher.

Nineaber is looking to replace Le Roux like for like. And if you move Kolbe to fifteen you lose the magic on the wing.

You need to remember our play is mostly conservative, so we need that extra playmaking ability from a player with vision at 15, Kolbe cannot be replaced on the wing yet, we have a few newcomers that has similar skills on wing, but aren't in the league of Kolbe yet.

Old Man wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:Is Kolbe worth punting to 15? He's a devastating broken field runner and defensively sound like. Would open up other spots on the wing too!

He is likely the more creative player yes, but I think our system worked in 2019 when we had Le Roux as a playmaker and Kolbe the finisher.

Nineaber is looking to replace Le Roux like for like. And if you move Kolbe to fifteen you lose the magic on the wing.

You need to remember our play is mostly conservative, so we need that extra playmaking ability from a player with vision at 15, Kolbe cannot be replaced on the wing yet, we have a few newcomers that has similar skills on wing, but aren't in the league of Kolbe yet.

Ah fair play, i ask because my knowledge of SA back 3 players is woeful (hopefully to be fixed with the SA teams in the URC now), shame about Le Roux but the conveyor belt of SA back 3 players will continue churning out talent as per usual!

Hopefully, the challenge currently is those showing their hands don't have a lot of experienve, plenty of 22,23 year olds running around.

The challenge for the SA franchises is they struggle to hold onto the good players as they get recruited for overseas clubs before they establish themselves as players of interest from a Springbok persepective

Fun fact - 17 of the Scotland 23 played for Scotland under 20s!

RDW wrote:Fun fact - 17 of the Scotland 23 played for Scotland under 20s!

I'll have a guess they are:

Hogg
McLean
Scott
Russell
Price
McInally
Z Fagerson
Gilchrist
Ritchie
M Fagerson
Ashman
Bhatti
Hodgson
Watson
Horne
Hastings
Blairhorn

Correct?

RDW wrote:Fun fact - 17 of the Scotland 23 played for Scotland under 20s!

How many South Africans played for SA U20?

Old Man wrote:

RDW wrote:Fun fact - 17 of the Scotland 23 played for Scotland under 20s!

How many South Africans played for SA U20?

100% of them but you'll find they've been scottish sleeper agents the whole time they were playing for the U20s so you wouldnt have wanted them anyway. Townsend used the activation code words "Yer tap water's Sh1te" and they promptly sabotaged the bok training camp by swapping out the biltong for haggis. Job done, Scotland to win by 50 points.

Tramptastic wrote:

Old Man wrote:

RDW wrote:Fun fact - 17 of the Scotland 23 played for Scotland under 20s!

How many South Africans played for SA U20?

100% of them but you'll find they've been scottish sleeper agents the whole time they were playing for the U20s so you wouldnt have wanted them anyway. Townsend used the activation code words "Yer tap water's Sh1te" and they promptly sabotaged the bok training camp by swapping out the biltong for haggis. Job done, Scotland to win by 50 points.

I would have that it would take more than Haggis to convert them, the young 'uns are going soft

Look, we could haggle all day about the different merits of biltong vs haggis and which is a superior dish to tempt international quality players to commit treason but we all know that the versatility of haggis i.e it can eaten as a standalone or converted in to lasagna/panini filling/ hot roll filling/ burgers, means it creates a spiritual awakening in players, it seeds an idea that their nationality can also be malleable and that, quite frankly, we are all really scottish deep down. Thank you for attending my TED talk.

Oh no, you didn't

You can eat biltong when it has hung for nywhere between three to seven days, depending on your taste.

You get biltong spiced the traditional way, spicy, salt and pepper, or chiliway, the comdination of spice is endless.

You can eat it on its own, dipped in any sauce you like, as part of a cold salad, warm salad, biltong quiche, biltong pie, biltong potjie (like a stew), in an omelet, toast, muffins, pizza.

There isn't even a competition when it comes to the versatility and sublime taste of biltong.

Not to mention the different types of biltong you get, Beef, koedoe, rooibok, springbok, eland, etc etc etc.

Im sorry to have to say this Old Man but you too are a scottish sleeper agent. You've been indoctrinated since birth - you aren't even old, or a man - we've just hypnoindoctrinated you to believe these things - you believe you are south african, you sit in the sun and eat biltong all day. These are lies.

You are actually a young woman from Stranraer, you hide from the rain and eat haggis every day of the year. But you will deny all this and believe your false reality because we don't muck about when it comes to international rugby espionage.

Tramptastic wrote:Im sorry to have to say but Old Man but you too are a scottish sleeper agent. You've been indoctrinated since birth - you aren't even old, or a man - we've just hypnoindoctrinated you to believe these things - you believe you are south african, you sit in the sun and eat biltong all day. These are lies.

You are actually a young woman from Stranraer, you hide from the rain and eat haggis every day of the year. But you will deny all this and believe your false reality because we don't muck about when it comes to international rugby espionage.

Now I am conflicted, I don't know whether I should identify as a wee lass from the Scottish highlands, a Highlander scratching my sporran, or sit back on my rocking chair to rest my broken loose head prop body, chewing on a piece of biltong.

I'd just roll with it and let me, a stranger on the internet, continue to gaslight you. What's the worst that could happen?

You should know that the only truth we have left you with is you are and always will be have been a loose head prop. There are some truths in life that no matter how much waterboarding you throw at it you just can't change.

Now I need to rest after that session of self exploration.

Tramptastic wrote:I'd just roll with it and let me, a stranger on the internet, continue to gaslight you. What's the worst that could happen?

You should know that the only truth we have left you with is you are and always will be have been a loose head prop. There are some truths in life that no matter how much waterboarding you throw at it you just can't change.

I thought waterboarding counted as R&R for props?

lostinwales wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:I'd just roll with it and let me, a stranger on the internet, continue to gaslight you. What's the worst that could happen?

You should know that the only truth we have left you with is you are and always will be have been a loose head prop. There are some truths in life that no matter how much waterboarding you throw at it you just can't change.

I thought waterboarding counted as R&R for props?

Only if you use Tennent's Lager.

Old Man wrote:

Now I need to rest after that session of self exploration.

So you indulge in "self exploration" while sitting on your rocking chair imagining a wee lassie from Stranraer? Welcome to tigertattie's world.

Tramptastic wrote:Im sorry to have to say this Old Man but you too are a scottish sleeper agent. You've been indoctrinated since birth - you aren't even old, or a man - we've just hypnoindoctrinated you to believe these things - you believe you are south african, you sit in the sun and eat biltong all day. These are lies.

You are actually a young woman from Stranraer, you hide from the rain and eat haggis every day of the year. But you will deny all this and believe your false reality because we don't muck about when it comes to international rugby espionage.

Which is why Shona believes she is Tongan/Aussie who was big in Japan and Jean thinks she has been playing "for Sale" pushing hard against a hooker every Saturday afternoon.

Just read a stat on the tests between SA and Scotland, of the 27 tests 19 has been in Scotland.

Old Man wrote:Oh no, you didn't

You can eat biltong when it has hung for nywhere between three to seven days, depending on your taste.

You get biltong spiced the traditional way, spicy, salt and pepper, or chiliway, the comdination of spice is endless.

You can eat it on its own, dipped in any sauce you like, as part of a cold salad, warm salad, biltong quiche, biltong pie, biltong potjie (like a stew), in an omelet, toast, muffins, pizza.

There isn't even a competition when it comes to the versatility and sublime taste of biltong.

Not to mention the different types of biltong you get, Beef, koedoe, rooibok, springbok, eland, etc etc etc.

Aye but can you deep fry it?

tigertattie wrote:

Old Man wrote:Oh no, you didn't

You can eat biltong when it has hung for nywhere between three to seven days, depending on your taste.

You get biltong spiced the traditional way, spicy, salt and pepper, or chiliway, the comdination of spice is endless.

You can eat it on its own, dipped in any sauce you like, as part of a cold salad, warm salad, biltong quiche, biltong pie, biltong potjie (like a stew), in an omelet, toast, muffins, pizza.

There isn't even a competition when it comes to the versatility and sublime taste of biltong.

Not to mention the different types of biltong you get, Beef, koedoe, rooibok, springbok, eland, etc etc etc.

Aye but can you deep fry it?

Would you deepfry a Sirloin steak?

Sacrilege

You mean you don't?

This thread took a strange turn overnight!

Great banter

jimbopip wrote:You mean you don't?

No my friend, if you are ever in South Africa let me know, I will prepare for you the tastiest, most tender piece of meat you have ever eaten in your life.

Someone needs to educate you about the proper way to eat a steak

TBF in Scotland you could replace "sirloin steak" with any edible substance and the answer would be yes on the deep frying front

We deep fry chips, onion rings and battered fish

Old Man wrote:We deep fry chips, onion rings and battered fish

And vetkoek.  Starting to wonder if you're really S African after all or a Scot in disguise as has been rumoured.

Old Man wrote:We deep fry chips, onion rings and battered fish

We deep fry pizzas.

Really offends the Italians

Old Man wrote:

jimbopip wrote:You mean you don't?

No my friend, if you are ever in South Africa let me know, I will prepare for you the tastiest, most tender piece of meat you have ever eaten in your life.

Someone needs to educate you about the proper way to eat a steak

Priority 1:  Still on the moving animal, no utensils
Priority 2:  Still on the animal, but with utensils
Priority 3:  Cooked over hot coals or grill producing a hot outside and a blood red centre slathered in melted butter, grilled onions, and mushrooms (for the radical)
Priority 4:  Is there a priority 4?

Old Man, love to hear how you do it (the cooking of the steak, that is)

By the way, Biltong has been our snack of choice going to matches for a long time. Hard to find fresh in America but common is parts of UK.

doctor_grey wrote:

Old Man wrote:

jimbopip wrote:You mean you don't?

No my friend, if you are ever in South Africa let me know, I will prepare for you the tastiest, most tender piece of meat you have ever eaten in your life.

Someone needs to educate you about the proper way to eat a steak

Priority 1:  Still on the moving animal, no utensils
Priority 2:  Still on the animal, but with utensils
Priority 3:  Cooked over hot coals or grill producing a hot outside and a blood red centre slathered in melted butter, grilled onions, and mushrooms (for the radical)
Priority 4:  Is there a priority 4?

Old Man, love to hear how you do it (the cooking of the steak, that is)

By the way, Biltong has been our snack of choice going to matches for a long time.  Hard to find fresh in America but common is parts of UK.

That does sound delicious, especially this early in the morning.

Try this simple recipe.

Steak has to be at least an inch thick, anything thinner than that is bacon. (yes, even if it is beef)

Hot coals, salt, pepper, lemon juice (or fresh lemon) your favourite bbq spice and Aromat (if available in your location)

Place steak on grid and douse the top liberally with lemon juice, only add seasoning after steak had been slathered in lemon juice
Once the caramelisation starts turn steak and repeat juice and seasoning.

Now the secret to a good steak is to know your audience as to their preference of rawness. However, it is vital to eliminate those who want a steak cooked more than medium, they do not deserve to eat red meat, you could either refer them to the nearest Vegan restaurant, or summarily add to their misery by offering them a bog roll to eat.

As to the steak the importance of resting your meat as to reintroduce the blood and juices back into the meat is important.

Some tips, if you eat fillet, cut medallions, it is the most tender piece of beef.
If you make biltong, use silverside.

Galted wrote:

Old Man wrote:We deep fry chips, onion rings and battered fish

And vetkoek.  Starting to wonder if you're really S African after all or a Scot in disguise as has been rumoured.

Stop confusing me, I am not a Scot, I can't even imitate your accent, I don't own a kilt, had to look up how to spell sporran, had to google the most popular beer in Scotland. My knees and right shoulder aches in weather colder than 18 degrees C.

I identify as a broken down male prop who loves red meat.

Good luck with the game today boys, lets hope its a good one.

Old Man wrote:

Galted wrote:

Old Man wrote:We deep fry chips, onion rings and battered fish

And vetkoek.  Starting to wonder if you're really S African after all or a Scot in disguise as has been rumoured.

Stop confusing me, I am not a Scot, I can't even imitate your accent, I don't own a kilt, had to look up how to spell sporran, had to google the most popular beer in Scotland. My knees and right shoulder aches in weather colder than 18 degrees C.

I identify as a broken down male prop who loves red meat.

Love it.

Old Man wrote:Good luck with the game today boys, lets hope its a good one.

And to you Old Man
Tough one to call today. SA should be favourites, with challenges and strengths on both sides.
Hopefully it'll be a really good test match.

Old Man wrote:

jimbopip wrote:You mean you don't?

No my friend, if you are ever in South Africa let me know, I will prepare for you the tastiest, most tender piece of meat you have ever eaten in your life.

Someone needs to educate you about the proper way to eat a steak

Thanks Old Man
I have a Bokkie friend, Caz The Quiet Bok, who took early retirement and started a couple of businesses to keep himself occupied. One of them is Becker's Biltong. I can recommend his biltong and his steaks are much loved by everyone in our rugby club, it almost caused a stampede on the London-Newcastle train when we travelled up for the Scotland-Boks match at the World Cup. We left London at 8am so i told Caz I would sort breakfast. We had a table which we shared with a young couple who were heading to York for a romantic weekend. They looked slightly askance when I invited them to join in our breakfast. I had packed a selection of bottles of Scottish beer, heather ale, raspberry cider, Scottish cheeses and Ayrshire ham with crusty bread. I saw them believe we weren't alcoholics but epicures and they relaxed slightly. Then Caz opened his carrier bag. A party keg of IPA from our local micro brewery and two stackable plastic mugs. Oh, and a ziplock bag full of his home made biltong. When he opened it the aroma drifted down the carriage.....I could hear people saying, "Biltong, man it's biltong!!" Then I heard the footsteps drumming as about a dozen large men in Bok's jerseys ran up the train. Caz shared his Biltong happily with this group of strangers who all agreed it tasted of home. Happy days.

Old Man, Doc Grey I don't think Caz does overseas orders but if either of you are ever in sunny Essex I'm sure we could try some.

Rufus Titman McLean may just do something extraordinary today. He really is a special talent.

Great story Jimbo

Old Man wrote:Great story Jimbo

We call him uncle Albert as nearly every time he speaks he starts off with “during the war”

Well, we don’t and he doesn’t, but hey, we could start !

Brought a tear to my eye seeing Tom Smith bring on the match ball, one of the unsung heros of the 1997 Lions.

He looks in pretty good shape fortunately

Disgraceful refereeing, he blew his whistle much louder for the kick-off than for the first scrum.  All we ask for is consistency.

Thats not going to discourage the Boks from peppering Hogg all afternoon!

Hoggy clearly unfamiliar with there being sun at Murrayfield, fair play

Well. We’re rather error ridden at the moment

Well. We’re rather error ridden at the moment

What a run by king Duhan

Give the ball to Duhan!

We simply do not deserve to be in the lead here.

But yes, we’ll take it!

Not quite sure how, but Scotland lead

Great defense and Boks turning down their kicks at goal!

And folk say Jaime Ritchie isn’t an effective 7

Great turnover, no support for Le Roux at all!