2022 FIFA World Cup

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"We've lost a game, I don't think we should be speaking about referees," Southgate said. "I can just compliment France and wish them good luck. They're a fantastic team."

This isn't good enough. By all means compliment the French, but this is the 8th major tournament since 1970 where incompetent officiating (at best) has played a key part in England's exit. It needs to be called out rather than just accepting it, as is the English custom. Other countries pressure officials, England do not. This is the result.

Some final. Could say that will take it to pens, who knows the way this games gone.

Good lord ! Three all...

Extraordinary.

Well this is just mental. Cheers, Mbappe, Hurst's crying.

If Argentina don't win this, Messi is just cursed

Lads, extra-time is meant to be tight and nervy, especially in the final! France should have won that at the end.

If there's any justice, France will win this shoot-out. Awful way to settle a World Cup.

Brilliant save by Martinez. Kept Argentina alive.

What a final it’s been. Probably best I’ve sever seen(not that I bother watching many).

Shame it has to be decided on pens.

Argentina for me have just about deserved it.

Time for Martinez to step up.

I guess this is the only way this was going to end. I hate these shootouts but what else can you do ?

Neither of these keepers are going to be easy to beat so this could go either way...

Hardly important, but I've just clocked France have made 7 subs. I thought it was 6 maximum (5 in normal time + 1 more in ET).

The nerves have done for France ...or more fairly :

Martinez has won it for Argentina. Fair enough , on balance .

In the end the right result in a horrible way. No idea where to start with all that. France really only ever in for 15 minutes but absolute carnage

Very harsh on France. Argentina couldn't beat them despite extreme favouritism from the referee, and with France being miles beneath their usual standard owing to illness. Very undeserved winners.

Argentina are the poorest winners of the World Cup in a long time. All they've beaten is Croatia, Australia, Poland and Mexico.

Penalties, as I've said before, is just a stupid way to decide anything. You either share the trophy or play on until you find a winner.

It was Mbappe's final, but doubtless the relentless hype behind Argentina's 10, who had a quiet game and was dispossessed in the run-up to France's second, will be the main talking point.

Bit of a shame that. Delighted for the GOAT but the rest of them are mainly sh*thouses. Just below Uruguay in the scumbag league.

But Messi is a f*cking rock star so fair enough.

What a final. Best I’ve ever seen.
Think Argentina deserved it overall.
Feel a bit for France as they kept coming back.

Delighted for Martinez, was always going to save at least one penalty.

Well done to both teams, it was a joy to watch.

Shame Maradona isn’t alive to have witnessed it

Been a bit of a weird tournament all round. As before, don't think there was an outstanding team compared to other tournaments. Argentina took a while to get going but they've gotten stronger as it went along (couldn't have started much worse).

France relied on winners instincts for a lot of it. Be generous and say even they've looked patchy for the last 3 games. Maybe the virus affected them, but generally thought Argentina were superb before they tried to sit on the lead(s)

Duty281 wrote:Very harsh on France. Argentina couldn't beat them despite extreme favouritism from the referee, and with France being miles beneath their usual standard owing to illness. Very undeserved winners.

Argentina are the poorest winners of the World Cup in a long time. All they've beaten is Croatia, Australia, Poland and Mexico.

Penalties, as I've said before, is just a stupid way to decide anything. You either share the trophy or play on until you find a winner.

It was Mbappe's final, but doubtless the relentless hype behind Argentina's 10, who had a quiet game and was dispossessed in the run-up to France's second, will be the main talking point.

Think penalties are the only way to decide it.
What else do you do, play longer extra time?

Certainly can’t share the trophy.

Anyway. What a great final. Will go down on the history books.

westisbest wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Very harsh on France. Argentina couldn't beat them despite extreme favouritism from the referee, and with France being miles beneath their usual standard owing to illness. Very undeserved winners.

Argentina are the poorest winners of the World Cup in a long time. All they've beaten is Croatia, Australia, Poland and Mexico.

Penalties, as I've said before, is just a stupid way to decide anything. You either share the trophy or play on until you find a winner.

It was Mbappe's final, but doubtless the relentless hype behind Argentina's 10, who had a quiet game and was dispossessed in the run-up to France's second, will be the main talking point.

Think penalties are the only way to decide it.
What else do you do, play longer extra time?

Certainly can’t share the trophy.

Anyway. What a great final. Will go down on the history books.

I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing the trophy. Both teams drew after 120 minutes. It's a lot better than penalties, which is essentially a competition of which group of individuals are feeling less nervous.

Could be ET until the next goal is scored, or a replay a few days later.

Replay would maybe be ok in the summer, not this time of year.
Could play for 45 mins and no team score.

We will have to agree to disagree re pens and sharing the trophy.

Mbappe currently transfer listing Messi

Strange goalie, Martinez.

Allison, Neuer, Ederson and some others would all have saved Mbappes second, yet he pulls off a wonder save at the end and saves penalties for fun.

Probably why he plays for Villa and not a big club. Capable of big moments but not a consistently elite keeper.

A sh*thouse as well. If the ref had any b*llocks, he would have made him go and fetch the ball after he threw it away before that French chaps penalty.

There have been a few goals he has conceded that he should have saved.
Top keeper though. Best we’ve had for a while.

A lot of keepers do the s***housery. Defiantly got in the mind of the guy that missed.

I’d argue that Villa are a big club, but then again I’d be accused of bias

westisbest wrote:There have been a few goals he has conceded that he should have saved.
Top keeper though. Best we’ve had for a while.

A lot of keepers do the s***housery. Defiantly got in the mind of the guy that missed.

I’d argue that Villa are a big club, but then again I’d be accused of bias

L*l. He's sound enough.

I was only messing mate. Trying to wind Galted up in truth but he's probably in bed!

Probably should've had two more penalty saves. Decent hand on both

Goalkeepers eh

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

westisbest wrote:There have been a few goals he has conceded that he should have saved.
Top keeper though. Best we’ve had for a while.

A lot of keepers do the s***housery. Defiantly got in the mind of the guy that missed.

I’d argue that Villa are a big club, but then again I’d be accused of bias

L*l. He's sound enough.

I was only messing mate. Trying to wind Galted up in truth but he's probably in bed!

Tw*t.

Duty281 wrote:Very harsh on France. Argentina couldn't beat them despite extreme favouritism from the referee, and with France being miles beneath their usual standard owing to illness. Very undeserved winners.

Argentina are the poorest winners of the World Cup in a long time. All they've beaten is Croatia, Australia, Poland and Mexico.

Penalties, as I've said before, is just a stupid way to decide anything. You either share the trophy or play on until you find a winner.

It was Mbappe's final, but doubtless the relentless hype behind Argentina's 10, who had a quiet game and was dispossessed in the run-up to France's second, will be the main talking point.

You're very cute when you're bitter, Duty.
Thought Argentina were the best team in the tournament, along with Brazil - with hindsight I feel a bit cheated that they didn't play each other, happy as I was to see Brazil knocked out.  England, France, Netherlands in no particular order after that.
You can claim that France were below their usual standard but they're living off their reputation from the last world cup (all they've beaten is England, Morocco, Denmark, Tunisia plus Poland and Australia (who Argentina also beat)).
Any problems Argentina have been encountered in this tournament were of their own making and they still came through.

Yeah I agree France got a lot of the benefit of the doubt from 2018 tbh. Don't think they've really gotten back to that level at this world cup

Galted wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

westisbest wrote:There have been a few goals he has conceded that he should have saved.
Top keeper though. Best we’ve had for a while.

A lot of keepers do the s***housery. Defiantly got in the mind of the guy that missed.

I’d argue that Villa are a big club, but then again I’d be accused of bias

L*l. He's sound enough.

I was only messing mate. Trying to wind Galted up in truth but he's probably in bed!

Tw*t.

Here he is!

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Galted wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

westisbest wrote:There have been a few goals he has conceded that he should have saved.
Top keeper though. Best we’ve had for a while.

A lot of keepers do the s***housery. Defiantly got in the mind of the guy that missed.

I’d argue that Villa are a big club, but then again I’d be accused of bias

L*l. He's sound enough.

I was only messing mate. Trying to wind Galted up in truth but he's probably in bed!

Tw*t.

Here he is!

Galtova gave me a bit of time off kitchen duties to post comments.

Galted wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Galted wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

westisbest wrote:There have been a few goals he has conceded that he should have saved.
Top keeper though. Best we’ve had for a while.

A lot of keepers do the s***housery. Defiantly got in the mind of the guy that missed.

I’d argue that Villa are a big club, but then again I’d be accused of bias

L*l. He's sound enough.

I was only messing mate. Trying to wind Galted up in truth but he's probably in bed!

Tw*t.

Here he is!

Galtova gave me a bit of time off kitchen duties to post comments.

I'm supposed to be posting on Mumsnet but no-one tells me exactly what to do.

Galted wrote:

You're very cute when you're bitter, Duty.

Alright, Galted, give him a break.

He's had a f*cking nightmare this tournament with predictions. Bit like the cricket. Basically got everything wrong.

Don't kick people when they are down though. You're better than that.

(You're not).

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Galted wrote:

You're very cute when you're bitter, Duty.

Alright, Galted, give him a break.

He's had a f*cking nightmare this tournament with predictions. Bit like the cricket. Basically got everything wrong.

Don't kick people when they are down though. You're better than that.

(You're not).

I make my predicitions a la KPFan, long after the result is in.

Delighted for Messi and di Maria - both are partly Italian after all

Joking aside Messi was the greatest regardless of whether he won the World Cup. Well he’s won that as well now.

As for di Maria, I bet that clown Gary Neville tears are sweet tonight.
di Maria’s role of achievements includes the winning goal at the Olympic Games, winning goal in the Copa América, goals in both Finalissima and World Cup final. Choke on that Neville.

Desperately disappointing for Mbappe, but you’d imagine the Frenchman will be gunning for the 2026 title.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Delighted for Messi and di Maria - both are partly Italian after all

Di Maria looks like an up and coming 1930s Chicago or NY gangster, guess that explains it.  Made a big difference today, always looked like danger when the ball got played out left, stretched the French defence to breaking point.

Galted wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Very harsh on France. Argentina couldn't beat them despite extreme favouritism from the referee, and with France being miles beneath their usual standard owing to illness. Very undeserved winners.

Argentina are the poorest winners of the World Cup in a long time. All they've beaten is Croatia, Australia, Poland and Mexico.

Penalties, as I've said before, is just a stupid way to decide anything. You either share the trophy or play on until you find a winner.

It was Mbappe's final, but doubtless the relentless hype behind Argentina's 10, who had a quiet game and was dispossessed in the run-up to France's second, will be the main talking point.

You're very cute when you're bitter, Duty.
Thought Argentina were the best team in the tournament, along with Brazil - with hindsight I feel a bit cheated that they didn't play each other, happy as I was to see Brazil knocked out.  England, France, Netherlands in no particular order after that.
You can claim that France were below their usual standard but they're living off their reputation from the last world cup (all they've beaten is England, Morocco, Denmark, Tunisia plus Poland and Australia (who Argentina also beat)).
Any problems Argentina have been encountered in this tournament were of their own making and they still came through.

I didn't think Argentina were the best team in the tournament, although it was quite a poor one overall, perhaps unsurprisingly. Argentina lost to Saudi, drew with the Dutch and France, made heavy weather of beating Poland and Mexico, and only really looked good against a Croatia side - a Croatia side, incidentally, that weren't much cop either and should have gone out long before the semis.

I shouldn't have said usual standard, with regards to France. I should have said their best, or at least near to their best, which is what we saw against England. That's the standard France can reach, and they were a million miles off it today, owing to the illness they've suffered. I'm not sure about disparaging France's list of 'all they've beaten'. France have won five games at this World Cup, compared to Argentina's four, and while both teams lost one game, it happened to France when they put out a weaker side owing to having already qualified.

France were the best team at this World Cup, then England, then possibly Brazil. France would have walked this game had it not been for the illness. I mean, they only managed to compete for about 30 minutes in this game and still scored three goals..

Wouldn't say I'm bitter. Had a bet on the Argies, so that's come off, even if I feel horrible as a result (like a time I backed Celtic to win a game of football and they did). But I am tired of the fawning over Messi.

Think you'd have to be pretty mean to say Argentina didn't look good today. Soundly outplayed France until they scored from their first serious attacks all game, then had a 10 minute spell against a shell shocked Argentina. Normal service resumed in ET.

Turned into a pretty crazy game but Argentina were the better side by a decent margin. Also outplayed the Netherlands to a reasonable degree. Only team that consistently answered the bell in the big games this tournament

The Argies led in every game, and by 2 in all but the first game (including all the knockouts). It was their own shakiness when conceding a first that put them in danger but they still found a way through when that happened. A bit more composure when leading and they'd more than likely be lauded as one of the greatest world cup winning teams. They also consistently looked the most dangerous when in possession, despite di Maria missing much of the tournament.

Duty281 wrote:

Galted wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Very harsh on France. Argentina couldn't beat them despite extreme favouritism from the referee, and with France being miles beneath their usual standard owing to illness. Very undeserved winners.

Argentina are the poorest winners of the World Cup in a long time. All they've beaten is Croatia, Australia, Poland and Mexico.

Penalties, as I've said before, is just a stupid way to decide anything. You either share the trophy or play on until you find a winner.

It was Mbappe's final, but doubtless the relentless hype behind Argentina's 10, who had a quiet game and was dispossessed in the run-up to France's second, will be the main talking point.

You're very cute when you're bitter, Duty.
Thought Argentina were the best team in the tournament, along with Brazil - with hindsight I feel a bit cheated that they didn't play each other, happy as I was to see Brazil knocked out.  England, France, Netherlands in no particular order after that.
You can claim that France were below their usual standard but they're living off their reputation from the last world cup (all they've beaten is England, Morocco, Denmark, Tunisia plus Poland and Australia (who Argentina also beat)).
Any problems Argentina have been encountered in this tournament were of their own making and they still came through.

I didn't think Argentina were the best team in the tournament, although it was quite a poor one overall, perhaps unsurprisingly. Argentina lost to Saudi, drew with the Dutch and France, made heavy weather of beating Poland and Mexico, and only really looked good against a Croatia side - a Croatia side, incidentally, that weren't much cop either and should have gone out long before the semis.

I shouldn't have said usual standard, with regards to France. I should have said their best, or at least near to their best, which is what we saw against England. That's the standard France can reach, and they were a million miles off it today, owing to the illness they've suffered. I'm not sure about disparaging France's list of 'all they've beaten'. France have won five games at this World Cup, compared to Argentina's four, and while both teams lost one game, it happened to France when they put out a weaker side owing to having already qualified.

France were the best team at this World Cup, then England, then possibly Brazil. France would have walked this game had it not been for the illness. I mean, they only managed to compete for about 30 minutes in this game and still scored three goals..

Wouldn't say I'm bitter. Had a bet on the Argies, so that's come off, even if I feel horrible as a result (like a time I backed Celtic to win a game of football and they did). But I am tired of the fawning over Messi.

Incredible that this double dose of utter bollox went largely unchecked.

"Extreme favouritism"? Put together about your nonsense from the other day that England had been cheated out of 8 tournament wins, I'm now certain that you don't have the first f*cking clue about anything.

France were nowhere near their best against England - you're just saying that to make yourself feel better about England's defeat. France did the same against England as they have done in every other match - they played well in patches and relied heavily on the consistent excellence of Griezmann and either the extraordinary occasional brilliance of Mbappe or the goals of Giroud. At their best, they were the best team in the tournament, but only in patches.

It happened again in the final - Argentina were the best team for the first 80 minutes and probably just about shaded extra-time and were deserved winners.

I don't think any sensible argument would have England as the second best team in the tournament - beat a distracted Iran, lucky to get a draw against USA, beat the 2nd worst team in the tournament, beat an average Senegal with a score-line that flattered England and played well in patches against a France team that itself only played well in patches.

In terms of relative performances, France and Brazil at their best were better than England. Argentina found ways to win that I don't believe England are capable of and beat France (which England couldn't do). Croatia found a way to beat Brazil that England couldn't match against France, albeit, I'd put them at a similar level to England and the Netherlands. Morocco came through two games against Portugal and Spain back to back which I don't think England would be capable of doing.

Don't think they just shaded ET, Lautaro Martinez should've scored a hat trick

superflyweight wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Galted wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Very harsh on France. Argentina couldn't beat them despite extreme favouritism from the referee, and with France being miles beneath their usual standard owing to illness. Very undeserved winners.

Argentina are the poorest winners of the World Cup in a long time. All they've beaten is Croatia, Australia, Poland and Mexico.

Penalties, as I've said before, is just a stupid way to decide anything. You either share the trophy or play on until you find a winner.

It was Mbappe's final, but doubtless the relentless hype behind Argentina's 10, who had a quiet game and was dispossessed in the run-up to France's second, will be the main talking point.

You're very cute when you're bitter, Duty.
Thought Argentina were the best team in the tournament, along with Brazil - with hindsight I feel a bit cheated that they didn't play each other, happy as I was to see Brazil knocked out.  England, France, Netherlands in no particular order after that.
You can claim that France were below their usual standard but they're living off their reputation from the last world cup (all they've beaten is England, Morocco, Denmark, Tunisia plus Poland and Australia (who Argentina also beat)).
Any problems Argentina have been encountered in this tournament were of their own making and they still came through.

I didn't think Argentina were the best team in the tournament, although it was quite a poor one overall, perhaps unsurprisingly. Argentina lost to Saudi, drew with the Dutch and France, made heavy weather of beating Poland and Mexico, and only really looked good against a Croatia side - a Croatia side, incidentally, that weren't much cop either and should have gone out long before the semis.

I shouldn't have said usual standard, with regards to France. I should have said their best, or at least near to their best, which is what we saw against England. That's the standard France can reach, and they were a million miles off it today, owing to the illness they've suffered. I'm not sure about disparaging France's list of 'all they've beaten'. France have won five games at this World Cup, compared to Argentina's four, and while both teams lost one game, it happened to France when they put out a weaker side owing to having already qualified.

France were the best team at this World Cup, then England, then possibly Brazil. France would have walked this game had it not been for the illness. I mean, they only managed to compete for about 30 minutes in this game and still scored three goals..

Wouldn't say I'm bitter. Had a bet on the Argies, so that's come off, even if I feel horrible as a result (like a time I backed Celtic to win a game of football and they did). But I am tired of the fawning over Messi.

Incredible that this double dose of utter bollox went largely unchecked.    

"Extreme favouritism"?  Put together about your nonsense from the other day that England had been cheated out of 8 tournament wins, I'm now certain that you don't have the first f*cking clue about anything.  

France were nowhere near their best against England - you're just saying that to make yourself feel better about England's defeat.  France did the same against England as they have done in every other match - they played well in patches and relied heavily on the consistent excellence of Griezmann and either the extraordinary occasional brilliance of Mbappe or the goals of Giroud.  At their best, they were the best team in the tournament, but only in patches.  

It happened again in the final - Argentina were the best team for the first 80 minutes and probably just about shaded extra-time and were deserved winners.  

I don't think any sensible argument would have England as the second best team in the tournament - beat a distracted Iran, lucky to get a draw against USA, beat the 2nd worst team in the tournament, beat an average Senegal with a score-line that flattered England and played well in patches against a France team that itself only played well in patches.  

In terms of relative performances, France and Brazil at their best were better than England. Argentina found ways to win that I don't believe England are capable of and beat France (which England couldn't do).  Croatia found a way to beat Brazil that England couldn't match against France, albeit, I'd put them at a similar level to England and the Netherlands.  Morocco came through two games against Portugal and Spain back to back which I don't think England would be capable of doing.  

Yes, extreme favouritism. Argentina got a penalty which they shouldn't have got, escaped two red cards, avoided a sanction for a backpass, and their third goal should have been disallowed.

I didn't say that England were cheated out of 8 tournament wins, I said officiating errors had made their job needlessly tougher in 8 games. What was nonsense was you claiming England had had a similar number of gifts through the years, but you couldn't actually produce evidence of a single one.

France were near to their best against England, in what was probably the game of the tournament. 'Played well in patches'...yes, that's how it usually goes, especially when playing a team such as England that performed well. Teams are rarely brilliant for the full 90.

Of course Argentina were the better team yesterday. They were playing a knackered and exhausted France, destroyed by illness.

Your disparaging nature of England's results can be applied to any team. Oh what did Brazil do? They struggled past Serbia and Switzerland, lost to Cameroon, beat a dreadful Korea and then couldn't beat Croatia etc. Of course England only played well in patches, no team turns it on for the full 90, they have on and off spells.

Argentina didn't beat France, they drew with France (a France far weaker than the one England played) and then won on penalties. Croatia 'found a way to beat Brazil'...yes, they prayed Brazil couldn't finish their chances and then won the penalty dice. Hardly worthy of high praise. Hilarious that you're putting Croatia up with England and the Dutch when Croatia only won one game all tournament (v an exhausted Canada who ended up with nil points; even Wales got one) and needed Lukaku's extraordinary range of misses to even get out of the groups.

Morocco rode their luck v Portugal and Spain and were heavily outplayed in both games. I don't see why England wouldn't have been able to beat Spain or Portugal. The performance that England produced v France was far superior to anything seen by Morocco, and would have been capable of beating the Iberians.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree. Don't think France have really played well outside of going behind to Australia/the Poland game. Really getting a lot of credit for their past exploits, but that team featured a pivot of Kante and Pogba, this one starts Rabiot. Upmanecano and Hernandez have looked complete liabilities against everyone decent, Kounde rather skated by until Di Maria rather brutally went directly at him.

Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia sure but they've been the better team since. Not sure France can say theyve been the better team since Poland

Duty281 wrote:

superflyweight wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Galted wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Very harsh on France. Argentina couldn't beat them despite extreme favouritism from the referee, and with France being miles beneath their usual standard owing to illness. Very undeserved winners.

Argentina are the poorest winners of the World Cup in a long time. All they've beaten is Croatia, Australia, Poland and Mexico.

Penalties, as I've said before, is just a stupid way to decide anything. You either share the trophy or play on until you find a winner.

It was Mbappe's final, but doubtless the relentless hype behind Argentina's 10, who had a quiet game and was dispossessed in the run-up to France's second, will be the main talking point.

You're very cute when you're bitter, Duty.
Thought Argentina were the best team in the tournament, along with Brazil - with hindsight I feel a bit cheated that they didn't play each other, happy as I was to see Brazil knocked out.  England, France, Netherlands in no particular order after that.
You can claim that France were below their usual standard but they're living off their reputation from the last world cup (all they've beaten is England, Morocco, Denmark, Tunisia plus Poland and Australia (who Argentina also beat)).
Any problems Argentina have been encountered in this tournament were of their own making and they still came through.

I didn't think Argentina were the best team in the tournament, although it was quite a poor one overall, perhaps unsurprisingly. Argentina lost to Saudi, drew with the Dutch and France, made heavy weather of beating Poland and Mexico, and only really looked good against a Croatia side - a Croatia side, incidentally, that weren't much cop either and should have gone out long before the semis.

I shouldn't have said usual standard, with regards to France. I should have said their best, or at least near to their best, which is what we saw against England. That's the standard France can reach, and they were a million miles off it today, owing to the illness they've suffered. I'm not sure about disparaging France's list of 'all they've beaten'. France have won five games at this World Cup, compared to Argentina's four, and while both teams lost one game, it happened to France when they put out a weaker side owing to having already qualified.

France were the best team at this World Cup, then England, then possibly Brazil. France would have walked this game had it not been for the illness. I mean, they only managed to compete for about 30 minutes in this game and still scored three goals..

Wouldn't say I'm bitter. Had a bet on the Argies, so that's come off, even if I feel horrible as a result (like a time I backed Celtic to win a game of football and they did). But I am tired of the fawning over Messi.

Incredible that this double dose of utter bollox went largely unchecked.    

"Extreme favouritism"?  Put together about your nonsense from the other day that England had been cheated out of 8 tournament wins, I'm now certain that you don't have the first f*cking clue about anything.  

France were nowhere near their best against England - you're just saying that to make yourself feel better about England's defeat.  France did the same against England as they have done in every other match - they played well in patches and relied heavily on the consistent excellence of Griezmann and either the extraordinary occasional brilliance of Mbappe or the goals of Giroud.  At their best, they were the best team in the tournament, but only in patches.  

It happened again in the final - Argentina were the best team for the first 80 minutes and probably just about shaded extra-time and were deserved winners.  

I don't think any sensible argument would have England as the second best team in the tournament - beat a distracted Iran, lucky to get a draw against USA, beat the 2nd worst team in the tournament, beat an average Senegal with a score-line that flattered England and played well in patches against a France team that itself only played well in patches.  

In terms of relative performances, France and Brazil at their best were better than England. Argentina found ways to win that I don't believe England are capable of and beat France (which England couldn't do).  Croatia found a way to beat Brazil that England couldn't match against France, albeit, I'd put them at a similar level to England and the Netherlands.  Morocco came through two games against Portugal and Spain back to back which I don't think England would be capable of doing.  

Yes, extreme favouritism. Argentina got a penalty which they shouldn't have got, escaped two red cards, avoided a sanction for a backpass, and their third goal should have been disallowed.

I didn't say that England were cheated out of 8 tournament wins, I said officiating errors had made their job needlessly tougher in 8 games. What was nonsense was you claiming England had had a similar number of gifts through the years, but you couldn't actually produce evidence of a single one.

France were near to their best against England, in what was probably the game of the tournament. 'Played well in patches'...yes, that's how it usually goes, especially when playing a team such as England that performed well. Teams are rarely brilliant for the full 90.

Of course Argentina were the better team yesterday. They were playing a knackered and exhausted France, destroyed by illness.

Your disparaging nature of England's results can be applied to any team. Oh what did Brazil do? They struggled past Serbia and Switzerland, lost to Cameroon, beat a dreadful Korea and then couldn't beat Croatia etc. Of course England only played well in patches, no team turns it on for the full 90, they have on and off spells.

Argentina didn't beat France, they drew with France (a France far weaker than the one England played) and then won on penalties. Croatia 'found a way to beat Brazil'...yes, they prayed Brazil couldn't finish their chances and then won the penalty dice. Hardly worthy of high praise. Hilarious that you're putting Croatia up with England and the Dutch when Croatia only won one game all tournament (v an exhausted Canada who ended up with nil points; even Wales got one) and needed Lukaku's extraordinary range of misses to even get out of the groups.

Morocco rode their luck v Portugal and Spain and were heavily outplayed in both games. I don't see why England wouldn't have been able to beat Spain or Portugal. The performance that England produced v France was far superior to anything seen by Morocco, and would have been capable of beating the Iberians.

Team gets two penalties without reference to VAR and they are victims of extreme favouritism?  Also applying the same standards for red cards, Rabiot should have also been sent off for his tackle on De Paul.  I think you need to calm the rhetoric and find better ways to express yourself without getting hysterical.  

I'm not putting Croatia up with England and the Netherlands, I'm putting them down with them.  The nature of their performances means they are ranked alongside the losers and also-rans who went out in the quarter-finals, rather than as deserved third-place winners.  Saying that, they beat an elite team in a knock out game at a tournament - something England haven't done since '66 and something they've never done outside England.

Two stonewall penalties, yes. They can't be denied. The reasons why they are victims of extreme favouritism originate from the reasons shown.

Croatia did not beat an elite team at this tournament, either, they drew with Brazil.

They beat them on penalties. They beat them.

superflyweight wrote:They beat them on penalties.  They beat them.  

Doesnt count apparently.

Samo wrote:

superflyweight wrote:They beat them on penalties.  They beat them.  

Doesnt count apparently.

Colombia must be bloody furious that they were eliminated for no apparent reason in 2018.

superflyweight wrote:They beat them on penalties.  They beat them.  

Yes, they beat them on penalties, not in open play. Open play was a draw.

Duty281 wrote:

superflyweight wrote:They beat them on penalties.  They beat them.  

Yes, they beat them on penalties, not in open play. Open play was a draw.

You're making yourself look silly now.  I know some people have suggested that you lie about your age on here, but I would have assumed that you were older than you claimed, not younger.

superflyweight wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

superflyweight wrote:They beat them on penalties.  They beat them.  

Yes, they beat them on penalties, not in open play. Open play was a draw.

You're making yourself look silly now.  I know some people have suggested that you lie about your age on here, but I would have assumed that you were older than you claimed, not younger.

Of course I'm not. Open play was a draw, that is indisputable. Croatia did not beat Brazil in open play, which is the point I was making. They did win on the silly tiebreak which, if you ran it 100 times, would result in something close to a 50-50 outcome.

Duty281 wrote:

superflyweight wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

superflyweight wrote:They beat them on penalties.  They beat them.  

Yes, they beat them on penalties, not in open play. Open play was a draw.

You're making yourself look silly now.  I know some people have suggested that you lie about your age on here, but I would have assumed that you were older than you claimed, not younger.

Of course I'm not. Open play was a draw, that is indisputable. Croatia did not beat Brazil in open play, which is the point I was making. They did win on the silly tiebreak which, if you ran it 100 times, would result in something close to a 50-50 outcome.

Duty281 wrote:Croatia did not beat an elite team at this tournament, either, they drew with Brazil.

No caveats in that statement.

Just because the bookies didnt pay out on your bet because they didnt win in 90 minutes doesnt mean Croatia didnt beat Brazil.