ULSTER RUGBY 2022/2023 - SEASON RUN IN

First topic message reminder :

Christ on a bike you lot are downbeat for a side that are currently in the top 4 of the league!!

I didn't get on quick enough today. Only family of 5 bundles remaining. I am in fact a family of five - but not so easy convincing my wife and youngest daughter to come!

I assume there is still more tickets to be released eventually, no?

Yeah, general release is tomorrow

Stockdale and Stewart released by Ireland and are available for this weekends game in Glasgow

Maine man wrote:Stockdale and Stewart released by Ireland and are available for this weekends game in Glasgow

I keep forgetting we've a game on friday, I should be excited but there's a fair dose of trepidation holding that back. Fingers crossed we've passed that bad patch.

Ulster side named for the Weegies:

(15-9): Ethan McIlroy, Ben Moxham, James Hume, Stewart Moore, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, Nathan Doak.

(1-8): Eric O’Sullivan, Tom Stewart, Jeff Toomaga-Allen, Alan O’Connor (Captain), Kieran Treadwell, Harry Sheridan, Jordi Murphy, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Rory Sutherland, Andy Warwick, Cormac Izuchukwu, Greg Jones, John Cooney, Luke Marshall, Craig Gilroy

A decent squad with plenty of grunt coming off the bench. Would rather have seen Sutherland start and Warwick covering TH is a worry so fingers crossed big Jeff has at least 60 mins in him if not the full 80. It's great to see big Izzy back and with Cooney, Marshall and Gilly on the bench I hope this'll be enough for a desperately needed win.

I don't see how Jones keeps getting picked, whats happened McCann Marcus Rea or Reffell? Murphy hasn't been great this year either would have thought that one or two of the above would feature. DV I guess is on hol in SA and will link up with squad for SA game, think a few of these selections are holding some back for that. Are a bit light on wing, hope Lyttle gets back soon. Good to see Izzy back hopefully he plays well. Dont think we'll have Sutherland for sharks game, which will meant JTA will have to play 80mins there or close to it, so hopefully Warwick is ok at TH this game, otherwise JTA will have two 80min games in a row

I see Jack McGrath retired, was he still on your books?

mikey_dragon wrote:I see Jack McGrath retired, was he still on your books?

No his contract ended in the summer.

Shame as he was a fantastic player

He was a great player in his early days, one of the best in this hemisphere for sure. Not sure what happened but he seemed to just drop off and not return to that form.

mikey_dragon wrote:He was a great player in his early days, one of the best in this hemisphere for sure. Not sure what happened but he seemed to just drop off and not return to that form.

He'd had a pretty severe injury that looked career ending in his past. I can't remember if it's linked to his current hip issue but he did make a comeback from that previous injury, this one has been the call to pasture unfortunately.

Kingshu wrote:I don't see how Jones keeps getting picked, whats happened McCann Marcus Rea or Reffell? Murphy hasn't been great this year either would have thought that one or two of the above would feature. DV I guess is on hol in SA and will link up with squad for SA game, think a few of these selections are holding some back for that. Are a bit light on wing, hope Lyttle gets back soon. Good to see Izzy back hopefully he plays well. Dont think we'll have Sutherland for sharks game, which will meant JTA will have to play 80mins there or close to it, so hopefully Warwick is ok at TH this game, otherwise JTA will have two 80min games in a row

It's frustrating knowing Rea's sitting on the naughty step at a time when we can't afford the luxury. Reffell hasn't been value for money at all, if he's going to be yet another sick note perhaps he can share a taxi with Addison on their way out the door. If he's not injured then why is he behind Jones in the pecking order? Have we been sold a pup?
On the Sutherland issue for the Sharks, I still believe if we were Munster we'd have injury cover parachuted in but we're not and we're left with Warwick as TH cover.

Anyway, enough gloom, lets hope tonight's match isn't a stress fest. SUFTUM

Just as an update, Flannery and M.Rea lining out for Himch this weekend. I mean wtf

At TH we got JTA as injury cover and got adding Sutherland at LH so can't really complain.

Reffell holds the tackle record in a game for Scarcens, and already has the Ulster record of 39 in a game, the second most tackles in a URC game since records started in 2009. With 95% tackle success rate. Thats a fantastic workrate and Id like to see more of him. Think he could be very good, or at least a very solid defensive player when under pressure.

For big games Ulster tend to use Doak or Lowry as OH cover, and in this game have Gilroy and Marshall on bench, its up to him to prove that hes good enough to have a FH on thebench rather than Doak covers and have an extra back.

Does anyone know what Rea has done? Did he pee in Dan's tea?

Is everyone so despondent they can't be bothered to comment on Friday's game? It's taken me some time to get round to it, but then I'm just plain miserable.

I think the conditions prevented the game being much of a spectacle, but the lack of attacking ideas from Ulster was very disappointing given the improvements in defence (at least until the subs came on). I don't think we can afford to lose Toumaga-Allen (or however it is properly spelt), as neither Warwick nor Milasinovich are up to the required standard. At least Warwick's excuse that he is actually a loosehead is more than valid and we do need his depth there.

The lack of ideas in attack is a real worry. Even I could see Glasgow lining up to execute the hold up over the line that got O'Connor. A high risk and challenging tactic normally, but they executed it very well. Why did the ball never go a pass or two wider, get some dummy runners, anything that showed a little imagination?

The Glasgow defence was always going to resolute and physical and in a collision game you want to show you can win the collisions, but at some point you need to show you have other options or it all becomes just too predictable.

I suppose there was the bonus point gained at the end, the effort and application were there if not the control and execution. But with the cold having cleared up I was hoping for something to tip the balance towards full, rather than empty. Or perhaps I am just miserable with unreasonable expectations.

Unclear wrote:Is everyone so despondent they can't be bothered to comment on Friday's game?  It's taken me some time to get round to it, but then I'm just plain miserable.

I think the conditions prevented the game being much of a spectacle, but the lack of attacking ideas from Ulster was very disappointing given the improvements in defence (at least until the subs came on).  I don't think we can afford to lose Toumaga-Allen (or however it is properly spelt), as neither Warwick nor Milasinovich are up to the required standard.  At least Warwick's excuse that he is actually a loosehead is more than valid and we do need his depth there.

The lack of ideas in attack is a real worry.  Even I could see Glasgow lining up to execute the hold up over the line that got O'Connor.   A high risk and challenging tactic normally, but they executed it very well.  Why did the ball never go a pass or two wider, get some dummy runners, anything that showed a little imagination?

The Glasgow defence was always going to resolute and physical and in a collision game you want to show you can win the collisions, but at some point you need to show you have other options or it all becomes just too predictable.

I suppose there was the bonus point gained at the end, the effort and application were there if not the control and execution.  But with the cold having cleared up I was hoping for something to tip the balance towards full, rather than empty.  Or perhaps I am just miserable with unreasonable expectations.

I think there's not much to comment on after such a turgid, forgettable match. Conditions were bad so it was never going to be one to remember but the performance from Ulster was once again below par and for the most of the second half they looked disinterested. Defensively they held out well in the first half but I'm not sure if that was all down to effort, the conditions played their part there too. The main gripe for me was the complete lack of any attacking shape what so ever from Ulster. There's nothing there for any defence to have to read which leaves go forward ball and line breaks to chance, or that's how it feels.
There are a few teams right on our tails who have loads of momentum, it looks like they'll keep climbing while we slip slowly downwards. Not good and it's now got to the point where I sit down to watch the games with gritted teeth and remote in hand ready to turn the torture off. I can't imagine what it feels like if you've paid to sit in a cold, wet stadium. I'd be furious and wouldn't be forking out for a ST.

I watched this match and enjoyed it. I did start watching the Ospreys but turned over after about 10 minutes. Glasgow and Ulster match was a proper game.

I will say Ulster coaches must be concerned at this stage. Glasgow might be able to get something out of the Lions match so may end up in 3rd by the end of the next weekend. I don't see Ulster winning against Sharks who almost certainly will go fully loaded this weekend.

Given their current form and results its not looking great for them for a top 4 finish. They will have 3 out of 4 home games after this weekend but they need to fend off the challenge from at least 2 teams below them. They should win all their home games and I don't see Edinburgh or Dragons being the issue. But that Bulls game is a must win game and could be the difference in getting a top 4 finish.

I don't think Munster will be a threat though as they have a horrible away series in South Africa and they have Glasgow at home as well.

The real threat comes from the Bulls who also have 3 home games not including the Ulster game. If they beat Ulster away that will no doubt kill off Ulster's chance of finishing top 4. Even if they lose they probably will still push hard to finish.

I'd be pretty sure Ulster know they need those home draws. I don't fancy their chances on their away form against any of the top 4 sides if they end up getting replaced by the Bulls.

Unclear wrote:Is everyone so despondent they can't be bothered to comment on Friday's game? ....
 Or perhaps I am just miserable with unreasonable expectations.

The whatever attitude I have is simple

We are an inferior side to last year but the squad is stronger.

We only lost a never fit McGrath
Roberts - Stewart is a much better player
Reidy who didn't play
Kane - Toomunga-Allen is in a different league

Given the other add ons we should be better instead we have not played anywhere near the same level.

Someone should be made accountable for the following

21/22 Decent Attack coach (Peel) 22/23 Poor Attack coach (Soper)
21/22 Brilliant Attack coach (Payne) 22/23 Useless Defence coach (Bell)
21/22 Excellent Skills coach (Soper) 22/23 Poor Skills coach (Newby)

Heads should roll for this- I am looking at Petrie, Cunningham and McFarland - they have cocked up.
By all accounts McFarland is looking elsewhere apply for the Leicester job and being considered by Eddie Jones to be part of the Aussie World Cup team.
If his mind is elsewhere get rid and he can take his coaching team with him

geoff999rugby wrote:

Unclear wrote:Is everyone so despondent they can't be bothered to comment on Friday's game? ....
 Or perhaps I am just miserable with unreasonable expectations.

The whatever attitude I have is simple

We are an inferior side to last year but the squad is stronger.

We only lost a never fit McGrath
Roberts - Stewart is a much better player
Reidy who didn't play
Kane - Toomunga-Allen is in a different league

Given the other add ons we should be better instead we have not played anywhere near the same level.

Someone should be made accountable for the following

21/22 Decent Attack coach (Peel) 22/23 Poor Attack coach (Soper)
21/22 Brilliant Attack coach (Payne) 22/23 Useless Defence coach (Bell)
21/22 Excellent Skills coach (Soper) 22/23 Poor Skills coach (Newby)

Heads should roll for this- I am looking at Petrie, Cunningham and McFarland - they have cocked up.
By all accounts McFarland is looking elsewhere apply for the Leicester job and being considered by Eddie Jones to be part of the Aussie World Cup team.
If his mind is elsewhere get rid and he can take his coaching team with him  

If there was a change in the coaches at the end of the season, who would you like to have instead? Could we entice Payne back from France for instance?

Peel left season before Payne. But I agree with whatyour saying.

Hasn't actually been a attack coach, the roles are assistant Coach, forwards coach, defense coach and skills coach.

Forwards coach Roddy Grant hasnt changed.
Last season it was
assistant Coach, Soper
forwards coach, Grant
defense coach Payne
skills coach Newby

Newby didnt really come with much experince and it read more like Soper was taking him under his wing and teaching him the role. Soper was a great skills coach but think assistant coach plus really still looking after skills is too much, think we need to replace Newby with an experienced skills coach and let Soper concentrate on his main role.

Defense coach, Payne to Bell is a major step down.

Noel McNamara is the Backs and attack coach (a role we don't even have) at Sharks, was Leinster acamady and ireland under 20 coach his contract expires at the end of this season and think we could add him in (if he isnt already earmarked to repace Lancaster).

I can't see the likes of Soper being let go or replaced, but ideally Id like to see Noel added as Backs and Attack Coach, possibly involved in Acamady, and with view of replacing Soper/DMcF in time.

Add Ed Robinson (Ex Wasps attack coach, who has worked with England) instead of Newby, or someone else experienced and recuit a top defence coach, must be one available after WC.

Maine man wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

Unclear wrote:Is everyone so despondent they can't be bothered to comment on Friday's game? ....
 Or perhaps I am just miserable with unreasonable expectations.

The whatever attitude I have is simple

We are an inferior side to last year but the squad is stronger.

We only lost a never fit McGrath
Roberts - Stewart is a much better player
Reidy who didn't play
Kane - Toomunga-Allen is in a different league

Given the other add ons we should be better instead we have not played anywhere near the same level.

Someone should be made accountable for the following

21/22 Decent Attack coach (Peel) 22/23 Poor Attack coach (Soper)
21/22 Brilliant Attack coach (Payne) 22/23 Useless Defence coach (Bell)
21/22 Excellent Skills coach (Soper) 22/23 Poor Skills coach (Newby)

Heads should roll for this- I am looking at Petrie, Cunningham and McFarland - they have cocked up.
By all accounts McFarland is looking elsewhere apply for the Leicester job and being considered by Eddie Jones to be part of the Aussie World Cup team.
If his mind is elsewhere get rid and he can take his coaching team with him  

If there was a change in the coaches at the end of the season, who would you like to have instead? Could we entice Payne back from France for instance?

No Payne wont be returning seams very highly rated in Clermont, when Gibbs was sacked Payne was put in charge temporarily for a couple of games untill they found a new head coach, thats shows a lot of trust considering hes been in the job less than 6 months, there would have been other coaches or more senior coaches there longer, so think Clermont value him highly.

On Noel McNamara, I believe the IRFU are subsidising his wages, as there was no role for him in Irelad and they wanted him to get senior coaching experience, and not lose him (pity they didn't do similar for Payne). They arranged with Sharks to give him the Attack and backs role on a 2 year contact that ends this season, so presume they want him back in the Irish system.

Connacht have just announched Pete Wilkins as new head coach, which rules that out, which means he will either or most likily join the Leinster coaching team in some capacity, with a reshuffle of their staff. Or could it be DMcF is moving up to a director of Rugby role, and McNamara is coming in as new Head coach?

That wouldnt be bad as it allows him to get head coach experience under an experienced DoR (like Friend and Wilkins this season), Ulster get a backs and attack specialist?

Kingshu you are absolutely correct I have posted 21/22 when I should have posted 20/21
The changes I was referring too happened over 2 years not 1.
My error.

Well DMcF aint going to Leicester

Soper and Bell are definately 2 coaches out of their depth. Soper should have been left to concentrate on what he was being very successful at. Bell should never have been brought near the squad, he was always an average/ below average coach and if that was our aspirations then we deserve what we're getting now. However, it was just a 'jobs for the boys' appointment IMO.
Our forwards are going backwards and it would be a compliment to say our attack is blunt, it's worse than blunt. The set piece, our main weapon up until recently was a shambles against Glasgow.
Are there even any players left, do we actually have any to form a spine for this squad any more?
I despair and this saturday's early match holds nothing but trepidation instead of excitement. We've now hit a point where the rest of the pack has caught up and a continuation of current form will see us begin to slide down the table.

Just to make my already pessimistic post worse it looks like Toulouse are talking to Henderson.
That being said he's seen more in green than white.

"We are an inferior side to last year but the squad is stronger."

I get what you say about the in's and out's making the squad theoretically stronger, so a small plus to the side of the organisation dealing with that, but how can we accept it is a stronger squad if the performances and results are poorer? The potential was there but the reality is where we are now. I would agree that the problem may well be the coaching the set up. The young players don't seem to be continuing to improve (apart from Stewart). The succession plan is non-existent in some key areas.

I hope there isn't a view that some good coaches will become available in the merry-go-round after the World Cup and we pick someone up then to sort it all out. The thinking needs to be more strategic, the Leinster juggernaut didn't just happen by accident.

Just as an outsider looking in Ulster really are struggling for confidence. Same players that pre Christmas were putting sides away comfortably.

URC is getting very tough week on week. Think Ulster should go into the Sharks game expecting to get beat. If he's smart he will hold back his first team for this one. I don't think Ulster can win this one at full strength at the minute and they don't need another confidence dent.

He needs to make sure to go full noise against Cardiff and Bulls. Win those and I think Ulster will stay in the top 4. Losses there would be a disaster for them.

I don't fancy anyone's chances away from home in the quarter final stages. So Ulster need that home draw.

Pete330v2 wrote:Just to make my already pessimistic post worse it looks like Toulouse are talking to Henderson.
That being said he's seen more in green than white.

Are we likely to see a few Irishmen in their 30's move after the world cup?

Maine man wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Just to make my already pessimistic post worse it looks like Toulouse are talking to Henderson.
That being said he's seen more in green than white.

Are we likely to see a few Irishmen in their 30's move after the world cup?

Is the tax break for staying in Ireland up to retiring from competition still a thing? It might provide some incentive to stay at the other 3 provinces, but work against Ulster. Or do we callously cast aside the more mature in favour of promoting youth (obvious where I sit in the age profile)?

Welshmushroom wrote:Just as an outsider looking in Ulster really are struggling for confidence.  Same players that pre Christmas were putting sides away comfortably.

URC is getting very tough week on week.  Think Ulster should go into the Sharks game expecting to get beat.  If he's smart he will hold back his first team for this one.  I don't think Ulster can win this one at full strength at the minute and they don't need another confidence dent.

He needs to make sure to go full noise against Cardiff and Bulls.  Win those and I think Ulster will stay in the top 4.  Losses there would be a disaster for them.  

I don't fancy anyone's chances away from home in the quarter final stages.  So Ulster need that home draw.

Wouldn't be able to play the first team even if he wanted to so will likely be a very second string side you see with a focus on just don't let the score get too big.

A bunch of the first team players are either injured or away with Ireland, even the ones who aren't likely to start for Ireland this weekend won't be released I'd guess as the game is in South Africa.

So it will be a bit of a thrown together squad even if they went with the absolute strongest available 15.

If you do lose this weekend how do you see the next 4 games going?

Who do you think are your biggest threats for a top 4 finish?

I'm assuming even if a top 4 spot isn't achieved they surely must be a shoe in for a top 8 finish?

Welshmushroom wrote:Just as an outsider looking in Ulster really are struggling for confidence.  Same players that pre Christmas were putting sides away comfortably.

.

The sides we put away were, quite frankly crap.
When we came up against half decent sides we lost

Before Christmas we beat 5 teams - Connacht, Osprey and Zebre at home - Connacht and Zebre were terrible
Ospreys were, quite frankly laughable, and professional in name only
We beat the worst Munster side I have seen in the professional era by one point (they have since improved considerably)
We won a fifty/fifty game against the worst SA team

We did play well in any of the games, maybe Lions in patches at a push

My big worry is, besides the coaching set up, the fact that 29 players still don't have a contract for next year, and Declan Moore rumoured to be off.
That is 30 players.

Of those you could make a case for them going through retirement, injury, pastures new, not up to standard

I would be concerned that McFarland getting itchy feet means resigning these guys is not a priority
I think we could end up with our smallest squad in the professional era - upper 30's?
As I mentioned before I can only see Sheridan making the jump from a development contract

The thing is given the restructure of the URC with just 18 regular season games do all sides need a natural adjustment for squad numbers. Seems pointless in my eyes to pay squad players only to hold tackle bags.

I actually think one of the reasons at Welsh Regions is that players are now not playing enough games which means they don't tend to be match ready. I know player welfare is a big thing at the minute but I think there also has to be some counter balance to the other side of the coin which is players standards not being maintained.

Ulster have been very good at getting their top guys on the field a lot. So if they reduce squad numbers it does allow them to target strengthening their starting 23 which to be honest should be the goal of all URC teams (with the exception of Leinster).

When is the team being announced?

They probably have to line ups out by 12-1pm today.

Maine man wrote:When is the team being announced?

It always soon after noon the day before unless its a Sunday match

Team

(15-9): Mike Lowry, Craig Gilroy, Luke Marshall, Stewart Moore, Aaron Sexton, Jake Flannery, John Cooney;

(1-8): Rory Sutherland, John Andrew, Jeff Toomaga-Allen, Alan O’Connor, Harry Sheridan, Jordi Murphy, Nick Timoney, Duane Vermeulen (Captain).

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Andy Warwick, Gareth Milasinovich, Cormac Izuchukwu, Dave McCann, Dave Shanahan, Ian Madigan, Ethan McIlroy.

Good news - Lowry, Marshall, Cooney, Sutherland back
Bad News - Sexton and the chocalate tea pot on the team sheet

Hell of an ask by the management to throw Sheridan into the second row and drop Flannery straight in.

There really doesn't seem any logical planning about team selection from one week to the next.
More like put the names ina hat and see who comes out.

Marcus Rea's slip appears to no longer go into the pot

At most 6 first XV players starting

Don't understand that selection. I just don't think Ulster will win this game. Picking Lowry & Timoney for example are 2 players I would have held back for the 2 fixtures after this. This could end up affecting their confidence.

I understand he may be putting up some experience to keep the score down but this is not the make or break fixture for him. The Cardiff game is critical. He may think getting some game time will give them edge but for me that is such a double edged sword. They may be battle hardened but I would imagine Cardiff simply will have had more rest and planning time.

Now he may end up getting the result either this week or next week and that vindicate his selection but if he loses both this could look silly on review.

There's no better training for a tough game than having a tough game in the build up. I reckon that's Dan's thinking. That being said, with that selection I'm not sure I should take a guess at Dan's thinking. Sheridan in at lock, Flannery all of a sudden deemed worthy, still no sign of M.Rea etc. The starting XV is a bit like a chicken, plenty in the centre but very little on the wings. Gilroy is done and Sexton is at a similar level but that's his ceiling.
The Sharks are missing quiet a few and aren't fielding the strongest team by any stretch but with our current form etc I can't see us getting anything. I'm prone to error though so fingers crossed.

C'mon Pete I rely on you to counteract my (un)natural pessimism.

A good result will no significant injuries and to hell with the score.

Got that one wrong (again). Don't know about injuries, haven't actually seen the game yet, but very surprised by the win. Got to follow it up now.

Why dosent sexton ever seem to use his pace people keep talking about?
He never seems to give it the beans and just pin his ears back

Seton cant tackle, cant kick and has poor hands
Other than that he is brilliant

A sprinter pretending to be a rugby player

An encouraging performance.

Looks like Flannery may be offered a contract after all - he had a good game
Also understand Munster see him as a replacement for Healy
The player will decide

Sheridan and Moore were outstanding and McCann looked good when he came on

The NIQ's Toomunga-Allen, Sutherland and Vermuelen put in serious shifts.

The less said about the three wingers - Gilroy, Sexton and McIlroy the better - all poor, or worse

A win in Cardiff and I reckon the top 4 will be certain.
If followed up by a run of home wins it could be touch and go between us and Stormers for second place
We are a game behind, points wise, but they have to go to Leinster, and at home to Munster who may well be fighting for a SF place.

I think the loss away to Glasgow prob ended top two, but there is still a chance.

V Sharks I did think ulster could win but with the wings named I lost confidence.

Gilroy I thought was doing well untill he went off. Sexton prob had his best game, but I dont think he has improved enough in the basics of the game. Even his speed isnt used well, as theres no sidestep, one on one he didn't beat the FB, and didnt look like he would have been able to, but he may have done enough to buy himself more time.

Flannery did ok and earned another chance.

Hopefully RB and Lyttle get back to fitness soon.

What is the latest on the injury front?

The problem with Gilroy is tackling is optional

Sexton did have his best game but the bar was so low it isn't saying much