England's Winter of Cricket 2022/23

First topic message reminder :

The Lions are doing some Bazball v Sri Lanka A.

Sri Lanka A were bowled out for a paltry 136, Fisher with 5/34, and the Lions have already amassed 249/3 in 48 overs. Hameed, who's captain, 81 off 109, Lees 56 off 69, and Haines unbeaten with 62 from 72.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Speaking of records...what chance do we reckon Brook has of becoming the first Englishman since Gooch to reach a triple century...? Isn't going to get many better opportunities you wouldn't think (flat deck, old ball, loads of time, poor attack)

If he gets himself back in, he should do it. But concentration is often the big problem the morning after registering a big score. At the pace he's scoring he may achieve it in the morning session, as it's extended to two and a half hours.

Another record to keep your eye on - England's highest ever partnership in test history is 411, achieved by May and Cowdrey in 1957 in Birmingham. Root and Brook have currently combined for 294, the 17th highest in England's history.

Highest test partnership in NZ - 467. Highest test partnership ever - 624, which would take just over 60 more overs of batting from these two to eclipse it, at the present pace.

Duty281 wrote:

Highest test partnership in NZ - 467. Highest test partnership ever - 624, which would take just over 60 more overs of batting from these two to eclipse it, at the present pace.

Completely useless fact and really pushing it here. Sangakkara and Jayawardene both had unbeaten double centuries on the 28th of the month in that match.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Speaking of records...what chance do we reckon Brook has of becoming the first Englishman since Gooch to reach a triple century...? Isn't going to get many better opportunities you wouldn't think (flat deck, old ball, loads of time, poor attack)

Surely declare overnight to get the morning conditions?

Jokes aside I'm very interested to see what Robinson's high release and wobble ball in particular can get from this green pitch that the NZ seam trio haven't had much joy from since the new ball. Not to say that I think Jimmy and Broad will go badly of course! But high release points tend to be a massive help on benign pitches and Robinson is up there with Jamieson and Jansen as the highest about I believe. It may also be a very good test of his improving fitness.

Even Harry Brook can’t break the curse of the England batter not out overnight. They always seem to be dismissed for less than 10 the next day. Strauss was the worst for it.

A shame not to see Brook bring up the double ton after how well he played, albeit with some luck, yesterday.

Expected aggressive start from England though. Reverse ramp for 6 from Root in the first over and back to back 4s from Stokes.

At least they crossed the 300 partnership before Brook fell.

Saw that Jacks had been released by England's test unit earlier today, meaning he can feature in the Bangladesh ODIs (starting on Wednesday) and try to force his way into the World Cup squad.

Well, after all the possibilities listed on here, Brook getting out almost straight away was pretty inevitable

Both batters using their feet early too. It's been noticeable from lots of players since McCullum took over. I was really interested to see Mitchell doing it in T1 too. That 'game theory' element of using calculated aggression to knock bowlers off their length is something we're seeing more and more in Test cricket I feel.

Duty281 wrote:At least they crossed the 300 partnership before Brook fell.

Saw that Jacks had been released by England's test unit earlier today, meaning he can feature in the Bangladesh ODIs (starting on Wednesday) and try to force his way into the World Cup squad.

Interesting, hadn't seen that yet. Certainly makes more sense fit him to be getting middle practice in Asian conditions than running drinks at this stage.

Jacks is so talented but I struggle to see where he fits into the ODI side at present. Not really an opener, yet anyway, in 50 over cricket whereas he definitely is in T20. I don't see him bowling as much as even Mo or Livingstone either which likely rules him out the 7 spot.

Certainly makes sense to have him with the squad when they're missing several who will feature in the CWC though. It might increase the chances of Rehan missing out though peeking over the squad...

1.Roy 2..Malan 3.Salt 4.Vince 5.Jos (wk) (c) 6.Mo 7.Jacks/Rehan 8.Surran 9.Woakes 10.Dilly 11.Jof/Wood

Probably looking at something like that with Topley and Mahmood (awesome to see Saqib back!) also getting rotated into the seam attack.

Not a weak side but way off full strength.

Given the movement with the new ball yesterday I'd say it seems they are, somewhat unsurprisingly, targeting 400 plus before the new ball.

That's not a good look for Foakes.

400 might require a bit of work.

England have generally got pitches right in this run? They went massive at Rawalpindi, so maybe this pitch does only need 380-400. But Stokes’ shot was just ridiculous - he bats more aggressively in Tests than any other format!

I am enjoying Richardson on comms trying to talk up bowling England out for about 400 as a good thing for NZ, after having won the toss and inserted them on day one...

Yep, the issue with this strategy is that some dismissals look ugly. That cut/slash never looked in control or balanced. In reality getting nicked off playing a forward defence and spooning a reverse scoop to fly slip end the same way for team and batter. One looks a lot worse than the other though and ugly shots always produce more chatter and get remembered. That certainly is an ugly dismissal from the skipper!

king_carlos wrote:Both batters using their feet early too. It's been noticeable from lots of players since McCullum took over. I was really interested to see Mitchell doing it in T1 too. That 'game theory' element of using calculated aggression to knock bowlers off their length is something we're seeing more and more in Test cricket I feel.

Not as much as Foakes though who seemed on a sponsored walk when he tumbled over. 

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I am enjoying Richardson on comms trying to talk up bowling England out for about 400 as a good thing for NZ, after having won the toss and inserted them on day one...

These commentators still think you get the reviews back after 80 overs!

Duty281 wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I am enjoying Richardson on comms trying to talk up bowling England out for about 400 as a good thing for NZ, after having won the toss and inserted them on day one...

These commentators still think you get the reviews back after 80 overs!

Thanks for confirming! Thought I had missed something in the laws starting in 2023.

'It was changed recently'...yes, if 2017 is recent.

Duty281 wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I am enjoying Richardson on comms trying to talk up bowling England out for about 400 as a good thing for NZ, after having won the toss and inserted them on day one...

These commentators still think you get the reviews back after 80 overs!

After Ian Healy's recent 'demonstration' of how the Aussie bats should be playing spin that basically ignored how the games changed since DRS and his career ended I've basically tried to pretend most comms don't exist for the sake of my sanity.

The number of ex players who clearly do the gig as it's easy rather than any lingering interest in the game is so depressing. Especially in a sport that runs as long as cricket, has as much space between play for analysis and can be as complex. More than any other sport I can think of cricket needs good commentary. Seeing the opportunity that offers so frequently squandered genuinely saddens me.

Been watching a bit of a clatter this morning...England obviously sticking to their usual policy of prioritising speed of scoring over maximising the total. Why not ? It has been working for them rather well !
Does look a bit OTT sometimes with a few ugly dismissals though . Stokes seems to specialise in them

Root showing he remains their best bat but could do with a bit more help to push this towards 450. New ball now . So that's 75/4 this morning from 15 ahead of it. Will be interesting to see how this new ball behaves on a second day pitch...

Declaration is around the corner, I think, as England cross 400 with Root showing us an exhibition.

Here's Robinson to the crease. I was talking his batting up (to a limited extent anyway) the other day and thought he should have gone in ahead of Broad. 

401/7 now is decent but nonetheless a tad disappointing compared to England's position at the start of today. Hoping Robbo can get a few in partnership with Root although the declaration looking likely ....

A bit surprised to see that Stokes has a higher average since becoming skipper than before. His batting average has always lagged a bit behind what I think it should be for a player of his quality though. Arguably exacerbated by sometimes being played when he shouldn't have been due to his importance to the team. Either rushed in too early, the last Ashes a good case there where he looked awful and nowhere near ready, or continued to be picked when looking cream crackered.

king_carlos wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I am enjoying Richardson on comms trying to talk up bowling England out for about 400 as a good thing for NZ, after having won the toss and inserted them on day one...

These commentators still think you get the reviews back after 80 overs!

After Ian Healy's recent 'demonstration' of how the Aussie bats should be playing spin that basically ignored how the games changed since DRS and his career ended I've basically tried to pretend most comms don't exist for the sake of my sanity.

The number of ex players who clearly do the gig as it's easy rather than any lingering interest in the game is so depressing. Especially in a sport that runs as long as cricket, has as much space between play for analysis and can be as complex. More than any other sport I can think of cricket needs good commentary. Seeing the opportunity that offers so frequently squandered genuinely saddens me.

Listening to the comms on the India/Aus series physically makes me cringe at times - do generally think we're quite lucky with what we get for our home series on the whole though, better than other countries at least.

Still a fair bit of movement off the pitch with the new ball - not sure NZ will like seeing this!

guildfordbat wrote:Here's Robinson to the crease. I was talking his batting up (to a limited extent anyway) the other day and thought he should have gone in ahead of Broad. 

401/7 now is decent but nonetheless a tad disappointing compared to England's position at the start of today. Hoping Robbo can get a few in partnership with Root although the declaration looking likely ....

Robinson was previously always sent in ahead of Broad , I think ? But since SB has become "The Nighthawk" he seems to be have gained a batting reputation not altogether borne out by actual statistics... The way England play it maybe doesn't matter too much .

Anyway , Robinson having some fun now , going through the gears and letting Root have a bit of a breather...at 424/7 England are probably on course to get what they want from this session.

Robinson probably too embarrassed to still be batting after Blundell's appalling drop and so spoons the next one up  for a give away wicket. 

Four consecutive double-digit contributions from Robinson with the bat. Considering he started his test batting career with six ducks in 16 innings, this is a nice upturn.

An abysmal drop followed by an abysmal dismissal. A symphony of terrible cricket there. Truly village.

Ha. 424/8 now...

Robinson unable to profit from an extraordinary drop by the usually dependable Blundell. Rather a tame dismissal ; but I guess he was , like others this morning , there for a good time not a long one

His partners have actually out scored Root in this session - though I haven't calculated balls faced. Might be time for him to take a bit more of the strike now.

Leach can be adhesive. Can also play weird shots ...we will see which it is today soon enough...

Just waiting for the 150? Yes, and England are off. Root's test average just over 50 after that innings.

Good decision. Gives 30 or so minutes at NZ before lunch, a right awkward mini-session, then can reset and go again in the afternoon. The new ball and the England trio have the potential to do a lot of damage.

What's this ? Captaincy by milestones ? Declaration once Root crosses 150 ...

Or maybe it was that they just hit a run rate of 5 per over : would probably be ashamed to have scored slower than that

120 added today in just 22 overs. Not bad. And better for the game than relentlessly pressing on to 500 sometime after lunch. How it will work depends on how NZ can bat , eh ?

Hmm... I was expecting them to continue whilst Root was still there but as Duty says this gives them a couple of cracks with the new and new-ish ball.

A terrific position to be in either way after the 3 early wickets yesterday.

As Guildford always says never judge a pitch until both sides have batted though. I reckon within an hour we'll know whether it's dead and England batted very poorly outside one great partnership or if there's something there and NZ bowled very poorly outside the opening hour.

Folks - what time is lunch please?

I ask as I'm not sure how the extra 30 minutes for today is being added on. All 30 in the opening session or 10 minutes each session? Cheers.

guildfordbat wrote:Folks - what time is lunch please?

I ask as I'm not sure how the extra 30 minutes for today is being added on. All 30 in the opening session or 10 minutes each session? Cheers.

I think all 30 are added on in the morning, so lunch is at midnight/33 minutes time, and from then the session timings are as yesterday.

guildfordbat wrote:Folks - what time is lunch please?

I ask as I'm not sure how the extra 30 minutes for today is being added on. All 30 in the opening session or 10 minutes each session? Cheers.

Started a half hour earlier Guildford - so lunch will be midnight our time.

Good review ! Great start for Jimmy

Perfect use of the review system. Foakes didn't seem sure - as ever! - but the slip cordon were well up for it.

Weird reaction for Foakes - like he didn’t hear anything? But he was assertive enough at least to get over it wasn’t body so the noise he clearly hadn’t heard could only be bat!

Beautiful from Jimmy. I know I bang on about the wobble ball but it's fascinating how it's changed the game in a relatively short span of time. One of the best swing bowlers you'll ever see bowling seam instead of swing in the first over there. Typically he's bowling it as well as you can do too.

king_carlos wrote:Hmm... I was expecting them to continue whilst Root was still there but as Duty says this gives them a couple of cracks with the new and new-ish ball.

A terrific position to be in either way after the 3 early wickets yesterday.

As Guildford always says never judge a pitch until both sides have batted though. I reckon within an hour we'll know whether it's dead and England batted very poorly outside one great partnership or if there's something there and NZ bowled very poorly outside the opening hour.

I suspect it is largely "dead" except when the ball is new. Certainly something there with the new one though...need to make sure they use it !

king_carlos wrote:Hmm... I was expecting them to continue whilst Root was still there but as Duty says this gives them a couple of cracks with the new and new-ish ball.

A terrific position to be in either way after the 3 early wickets yesterday.

As Guildford always says never judge a pitch until both sides have batted though. I reckon within an hour we'll know whether it's dead and England batted very poorly outside one great partnership or if there's something there and NZ bowled very poorly outside the opening hour.

As I was banging on about when I saw the NZ eleven, I think they were a frontline bowler light which too often handicapped them after the opening hour.

NZ having about 30 minutes to bat against Anderson and Broad plus probably Robinson before lunch was always going to be difficult for them to get through unscathed. On that basis, the declaration coming as it did was probably a pretty shrewd call by Stokes. Just 2 or 3 overs in about 10 minutes would obviously have not been so bad for NZ - that was partly behind my question about lunch timing.

And with that, Jimmy gets us a second!

Lovely bowling from Anderson, but a nothing shot from Williamson there. England's close-in fielding has been good; New Zealand haven't been able to rotate the strike as much as they would have liked.

Will Young in now. Bit of pressure on him to deliver.

Really poor from Williamson. He's one of my favourite batters to watch but really hasn't looked anything like what he was since the most recent elbow trouble. Given he's the same age as Root that is such a shame for Test cricket.

Magical stuff from Jimmy. Two - nearly a third. Top class bowling

Williamson hasn't looked himself this series. Credit to the England bowlers , I guess because he was fine in Pakistan...

12/2. 224 needed to save the follow on.

Think we can call that England's session. Will have to leave it to you fellows to take the last eight wickets as I'm off shortly to play our last game for the season...cheers

alfie wrote:12/2.  224 needed to save the follow on.

Think we can call that England's session.  Will have to leave it to you fellows to take the last eight wickets as I'm off shortly to play our last game for the season...cheers

Wishing you a couple or even more in the end column, Alfie. 

Interesting that they've gone back to Broad. After that extreme bounce Robinson got past the shoulder of Latham's bat I presumed they'd continue with him from this end whilst the ball is hard. It's not like Broad has been bowling badly though to be fair!

Oh Jimmy. God I love watching him bowl. It just makes me happy. England have some very good bowlers but I'd probably be in bed by now if it wasn't Jimmy. I just love to watch it. A master at work.

Another wobble ball as well. Using a wider angle of the crease so the batter has to play. If it nips in it threatens LBW and if it goes away it challenges the edge. A pretty perfect representation of how seamers lengths have moved fuller as the wobble ball has risen in prominence with DRS playing a big role in that along the way. I know you're all bored of me but I just find it fascinating.

For all England's apparent 'devil may care' approach, we haven't conceded one single extra in the 16 overs bowled so far in this innings. More surprisingly and rather unnoticed, we didn't concede one either in the entirety of NZ's second dig in the first Test.

A miserly old fogey likes that as he heads to bed.