England's Winter of Cricket 2022/23

First topic message reminder :

The Lions are doing some Bazball v Sri Lanka A.

Sri Lanka A were bowled out for a paltry 136, Fisher with 5/34, and the Lions have already amassed 249/3 in 48 overs. Hameed, who's captain, 81 off 109, Lees 56 off 69, and Haines unbeaten with 62 from 72.

alfie wrote:And good morning Guildford !  Thought you might be on to the nightwatchman problem

Bowlers certainly pepped up now !  Pope gone - to Wagner who will be happy with that first over ...

80/4 . Bit precarious ?

80/5 now. Extremely precarious.

Important wicket for Wagner. Did think some were being hasty in writing Wagner's obituary.

Kiwis favourites now. Very poor cricket from England.

VTR wrote:I saw the teatime scorecard, it was quite a collapse after that to hand England a manageable target. I think Stokes could be the key tomorrow, hoping he plays in a more controlled way if needed. There's a stat that keeps doing the rounds that he averages more as captain than not. That is a fact I suppose, but it's not by much and overlooks that he was averaging over 50 in the two years before becoming captain, which based on ability seems more like it. He will still score quickly enough without trying to hit everything for 6

Hi VTR - trust you copied this to Stokes this morning.

Oh no ! Stupid run out ...

Brook gone for a duck without facing a ball and I am afraid this is now almost NZ 's to lose...

Unless Root and Stokes can retrieve this I really fear reading the sort of vitriol that will be spewing out online (not on here of course) from those who have been waiting for Bazball to come undone.

Have to say the batting this morning has been unnecessarily frenetic.

Not sure if I said it on here, but I really liked the sharp running between Root/Brook in the 1st innings, so a real shame to see that run-out.

If England are to rescue it, the bulk of the runs will likely have to come from these two. Not much left, although Foakes did play a hand in one of the chases of the summer.

Those complaining about Bazball, if England do lose, will likely be hypocrites who previously supported it.

I’m not sure Duckett’s was *that* bad a shot. It was just a wide long hop and that is his shot. Pope’s was a massively naive shot - they were bowling for that dismissal and asking for that shot and he guided it to the fielder.

Root has stuffed Brook on that run out - but if Brook has his wits about him he can sent Root back straight away and avoid disaster. Brook ran out Stokes in one off the Pakistan tests too, so I am watching him as a bad runner… Nobody is perfect.

I suppose this is actually not unlike those fourth innings chases back in the English summer against these same Kiwi chaps. Lose a bunch of early wickets , then a magic partnership saves the day ...is that going to work again ?

We don't have YJB this time so I guess it is up to these two and Foakes...maybe can leave twenty or so for the Nighthawk

Not giving up yet but after all this chaos I'm definitely watching with a degree of trepidation ...

A very poor over from Bracewell getting what it deserved and lifting England spirits. I had serious doubts about his place in the NZ side before this Test started and they haven't gone away.

Just to continue my slating of Bracewell ... only saw him being run out when I watched the highlights a bit earlier. Terrible, terrible cricket to not ground his bat or put his front foot down as he crossed the line. 

Brilliant work though from Foakes to gather one handed in what appeared a casual manner to disguise the danger for the batsman and then lightning speed to remove the bails. Reminiscent of an Attenborough documentary where a lethal crocodile emerges from hiding to snare an idle wildebeest. 

JDizzle wrote:I’m not sure Duckett’s was *that* bad a shot. It was just a wide long hop and that is his shot. Pope’s was a massively naive shot - they were bowling for that dismissal and asking for that shot and he guided it to the fielder.

Root has stuffed Brook on that run out - but if Brook has his wits about him he can sent Root back straight away and avoid disaster. Brook ran out Stokes in one off the Pakistan tests too, so I am watching him as a bad runner… Nobody is perfect.

Good points. I am not , by the way , meaning to be too critical of Duckett (though it did look to me that he wasn't really in position for that shot) As you say , it is a big scoring shot for him , so the intention was reasonable enough : the execution let him down.

The concern I have is however that I'm not sure his methods are going to work for him back home against high quality pace. I also recall that he got out early a couple of times in the recent one day games , edging attempted cuts. Small sample ; but still...

He has certainly earned a chance to show he can adapt his game and become more than an "Asia Specialist". I'm just not going to get too carried away yet. At various times I think we have all had high hopes for new and recycled openers ; but none have been able to sustain good starts since Strauss and Cook : we will have a better idea about this one in four or five months time.

Not sure about Blundell standing up atm to Wagner and Henry ... one from the latter edged by Stokes, off the keeper's s gloves and over slips to the rope. 

IF the same shot had been played with the keeper back (admittedly it might not have been), it would have been gobbled up.

guildfordbat wrote:Just to continue my slating of Bracewell ... only saw him being run out when I watched the highlights a bit earlier. Terrible, terrible cricket to not ground his bat or put his front foot down as he crossed the line. 

Brilliant work though from Foakes to gather one handed in what appeared a casual manner to disguise the danger for the batsman and then lightning speed to remove the bails. Reminiscent of an Attenborough documentary where a lethal crocodile emerges from hiding to snare an idle wildebeest. 

Love it

He doesn't have a nickname yet , does he ?

Shall we try to start a campaign for "Crocodile " Foakes ?

Yes, there is a pattern emerging with some Duckett dismissals for sure. And he doesn’t have an overwhelming good FC record, so he isn’t dominating teams in English conditions even in the CC. It’s a long time till the Ashes, so we’ll have plenty of time to discuss but I think Starc could take some punishment at the hands of BazBall - the relentless accuracy of Cummins and Hazlewood if fit will be the huge Test.

Ah yes, the familiar "can Root do the heavy lifting?" feeling. It'd been too long to be fair. All this having more than one batter scoring runs malarkey may have been effective but is a lot more complicated to follow than when Mr Extras was our second highest run scorer. Is Joe still there? Yes. Then it might be ok. This was home for so long.

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Just to continue my slating of Bracewell ... only saw him being run out when I watched the highlights a bit earlier. Terrible, terrible cricket to not ground his bat or put his front foot down as he crossed the line. 

Brilliant work though from Foakes to gather one handed in what appeared a casual manner to disguise the danger for the batsman and then lightning speed to remove the bails. Reminiscent of an Attenborough documentary where a lethal crocodile emerges from hiding to snare an idle wildebeest. 

Love it

He doesn't have a nickname yet , does he ?

Shall we try to start a campaign for "Crocodile " Foakes ?

Ha! Thanks, Alfie.

He's known as ''That's All'' on the Surrey board. 

NZ bowling well to this pair, Bracewell excepted, and haven't been too far away from landing the sixth wicket. Few edges landing safe.

Sense a tipping point is approaching.

JDizzle wrote:Yes, there is a pattern emerging with some Duckett dismissals for sure. And he doesn’t have an overwhelming good FC record, so he isn’t dominating teams in English conditions even in the CC. It’s a long time till the Ashes, so we’ll have plenty of time to discuss but I think Starc could take some punishment at the hands of BazBall - the relentless accuracy of Cummins and Hazlewood if fit will be the huge Test.

Given much of his career has coincided with some low scoring years for CC, very tough pitches, Dukes balls that were swinging big and continuing to swing conventionally for 60 overs, plus the rise of the wobble ball his F-C average of 42 isn't bad at all in context. When you add in his SR showing he should naturally suit the game plan I'd say Duckett is worth persevering with for now.

The keeper standing up plan is a bit of a two-edged sword , I suppose. It makes the odd edge off a pace bowler practically impossible to gather ; but it can also mess with the batsmen's game - as of course it is meant to do. On an otherwise unhelpful pitch I suppose the pace bowlers are happy for the trade...

Probably seen more in places like Pakistan ; but England employed the same tactic quite a lot yesterday. Though I think in the case of Harry Brook , Foakes was never likely to feel the need to stand too far back

Fifty for Root

Very much needed . But he still owes them a lot more for that run out...

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Just to continue my slating of Bracewell ... only saw him being run out when I watched the highlights a bit earlier. Terrible, terrible cricket to not ground his bat or put his front foot down as he crossed the line. 

Brilliant work though from Foakes to gather one handed in what appeared a casual manner to disguise the danger for the batsman and then lightning speed to remove the bails. Reminiscent of an Attenborough documentary where a lethal crocodile emerges from hiding to snare an idle wildebeest. 

Love it

He doesn't have a nickname yet , does he ?

Shall we try to start a campaign for "Crocodile " Foakes ?

Ha! Thanks, Alfie.

He's known as ''That's All'' on the Surrey board. 

Am I right in saying that came (via Bugs Bunny of course!) from stalwart of the Surrey boards and much missed Corporalhumblebucket? Or was that one of several others such as Third Degree?!

alfie wrote:The keeper standing up plan is a bit of a two-edged sword , I suppose. It makes the odd edge off a pace bowler practically impossible to gather ; but it can also mess with the batsmen's game - as of course it is meant to do. On an otherwise unhelpful pitch I suppose the pace bowlers are happy for the trade...

Probably seen more in places like Pakistan ; but England employed the same tactic quite a lot yesterday. Though I think in the case of Harry Brook , Foakes was never likely to feel the need to stand too far back

Fifty for Root

Very much needed . But he still owes them a lot more for that run out...

I do believe Foakes is a superior keeper to Blundell. Thus, the difficult tactic of standing up to a pace bowler can benefit England but is more likely to hinder NZ. My opinion, my bias ... you choose.

king_carlos wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Just to continue my slating of Bracewell ... only saw him being run out when I watched the highlights a bit earlier. Terrible, terrible cricket to not ground his bat or put his front foot down as he crossed the line. 

Brilliant work though from Foakes to gather one handed in what appeared a casual manner to disguise the danger for the batsman and then lightning speed to remove the bails. Reminiscent of an Attenborough documentary where a lethal crocodile emerges from hiding to snare an idle wildebeest. 

Love it

He doesn't have a nickname yet , does he ?

Shall we try to start a campaign for "Crocodile " Foakes ?

Ha! Thanks, Alfie.

He's known as ''That's All'' on the Surrey board. 

Am I right in saying that came (via Bugs Bunny of course!) from stalwart of the Surrey boards and much missed Corporalhumblebucket? Or was that one of several others such as Third Degree?!

If memory serves, the ''That's All'' nickname actually came from me to the Surrey board via Mrs Bat at home.

However, you are totally right that much good humour and cricket wisdom came from the Corporal who sadly remains awol.

Commentators expressing surprise at Stokes' slow start, a common theme. Completely ignorant, seemingly, that Stokes often starts slow, and has done so in some of his most important knocks e.g. Headingley 2019.

Oh dear, Henry has broken down in the fourth innings. Why does this misfortune continually strike NZ? They lost De Grandhomme and Jamieson in separate tests, mid-game, against England last year.

king_carlos wrote:

JDizzle wrote:Yes, there is a pattern emerging with some Duckett dismissals for sure. And he doesn’t have an overwhelming good FC record, so he isn’t dominating teams in English conditions even in the CC. It’s a long time till the Ashes, so we’ll have plenty of time to discuss but I think Starc could take some punishment at the hands of BazBall - the relentless accuracy of Cummins and Hazlewood if fit will be the huge Test.

Given much of his career has coincided with some low scoring years for CC, very tough pitches, Dukes balls that were swinging big and continuing to swing conventionally for 60 overs, plus the rise of the wobble ball his F-C average of 42 isn't bad at all in context. When you add in his SR showing he should naturally suit the game plan I'd say Duckett is worth persevering with for now.

Don't think there is any doubt they will be persevering with him for now ! Nor should there be : seems certain that Crawley will be sent back to the CC so the need for some stability alone dictates he has to be locked in at present. Didn't realise his FC figures were so good...42 indeed strikes me as OK in the modern world.

But that Ashes Series is going to be a Big Test for him.

Meanwhile NZ copping a big slice of bad luck as Matt Henry leaves the field in pain...doesn't look good for him at all ! Leaves a lot on Southee and Wagner...

alfie wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

JDizzle wrote:Yes, there is a pattern emerging with some Duckett dismissals for sure. And he doesn’t have an overwhelming good FC record, so he isn’t dominating teams in English conditions even in the CC. It’s a long time till the Ashes, so we’ll have plenty of time to discuss but I think Starc could take some punishment at the hands of BazBall - the relentless accuracy of Cummins and Hazlewood if fit will be the huge Test.

Given much of his career has coincided with some low scoring years for CC, very tough pitches, Dukes balls that were swinging big and continuing to swing conventionally for 60 overs, plus the rise of the wobble ball his F-C average of 42 isn't bad at all in context. When you add in his SR showing he should naturally suit the game plan I'd say Duckett is worth persevering with for now.

Don't think there is any doubt they will be persevering with him for now ! Nor should there be : seems certain that Crawley will be sent back to the CC so the need for some stability alone dictates he has to be locked in at present. Didn't realise his FC figures were so good...42 indeed strikes me as OK in the modern world.

But that Ashes Series is going to be a Big Test for him.

Meanwhile NZ copping a big slice of bad luck as Matt Henry leaves the field in pain...doesn't look good for him at all !  Leaves a lot on Southee and Wagner...

Probably puts a bit on Mitchell too. Can he do a Brook?

114 to win from here with Root and Stokes seemingly well settled and England in a fairly comfortable place. However, one more wicket before lunch would put NZ back in a strong postion.

Duty281 wrote:Oh dear, Henry has broken down in the fourth innings. Why does this misfortune continually strike NZ? They lost De Grandhomme and Jamieson in separate tests, mid-game, against England last year.

Hi Duty - as far as this Test goes, I'll make a case for them being masters of their own misfortune. Going into a 5 day match with only 3 frontline bowlers and all of them seamers is likely to put a huge workload on each with a breakdown for one always on the cards.

Tough lads , these Kiwis...Henry back on field already. Must have had a magic spray and some very effective massage.

Remains to be seen whether he will be OK to bowl after lunch ; but obviously the intention is there. Might be very significant ...

And now it is Stokes who is in trouble...just a bit of cramp , perhaps ? He's carrying on but he's certainly handicapped. And he's having some issues with Bracewell - except when he serves up complete pies like that long hop

Not long to lunch. Get those physios ready...

But now Stokes is hobbling. Kiwi commentator making light of it saying he just needs to stay there and Root hit boundaries. Not sure it'll be that straightforward ....

guildfordbat wrote:But now Stokes is hobbling. Kiwi commentator making light of it saying he just needs to stay there and Root hit boundaries. Not sure it'll be that straightforward ....

Won't be taking on any quick singles ! Might have a better idea of how he is if he can hobble through to lunch.

Seem to recall one of those run chases in England last year he had a similar problem ? Was batting with Bairstow , and seemed in a fair bit of difficulty ...but he carried on , "managed" it , and left most of the scoring to Jonny. Hopefully can play a similar role today ?

Root got stuck into Bracewell then ! Target under one hundred now...

Very good test cricket. Root and Stokes using all their experience to navigate through the chokehold that NZ had on England, and then started to score towards the end, putting England back ahead in the match situation. And they've targeted Bracewell well (well, well).

But not all over yet. NZ will need a breakthrough in the first half hour of the afternoon or the game will disappear.

90 left to get at lunch, 5 wickets to take for NZ. Even with Stokes hobbling I'd say that's the ball back in England's court with Henry hobbling, Root going so well and Bracewell leaking runs.

I'd presume that they'll open with Southee and Wagner after the break. If Root is still there after that spell then England should get home.

A terrific days cricket this far.

Fascinating session ...full of action , swings of fortune , injuries that may yet play a big part in the finale...

120/4 so I suppose actually NZ 's session : has brought them from a starting position in which the dice were loaded against them , to one where even one quick wicket on resumption would give them a strong winning chance. This partnership between current and ex-skippers has really turned things back England's way though.

Realistically , they need to get Root out.

Excellent Test Match. Not calling the result yet as we have seen too much up and down already in this one. But I imagine most of the UK watchers will be sitting up late to see the finish ?

king_carlos wrote:90 left to get at lunch, 5 wickets to take for NZ. Even with Stokes hobbling I'd say that's the ball back in England's court with Henry hobbling, Root going so well and Bracewell leaking runs.

I'd presume that they'll open with Southee and Wagner after the break. If Root is still there after that spell then England should get home.

A terrific days cricket this far.

Hi Carlos - it is back in our court but one quick wicket after lunch would again dramatically change the look of things.

Also agree with you about NZ opening with Southee and Wagner after the break. I would actually have given Wagner a couple of overs just before lunch to send some chin music Stokes' way when he was so clearly struggling. As Alfie said, hopefully the physio has meantime worked wonders on the England skipper.

alfie wrote:Fascinating session ...full of action , swings of fortune , injuries that may yet play a big part in the finale...

120/4 so I suppose actually NZ 's session : has brought them from a starting position in which the dice were loaded against them , to one where even one quick wicket on resumption would give them a strong winning chance. This partnership between current and ex-skippers has really turned things back England's way though.

Realistically , they need to get Root out.

Excellent Test Match. Not calling the result yet as we have seen too much up and down already in this one. But I imagine most of the UK watchers will be sitting up late to see the finish ?

Oh yes. 

And Bracewell opens the bowling for the session. Surprised Southee not listening to us. 

And Henry with the next over ... 

Henry back at the bowling crease...so total opposite to 606v2 recommendations for bowling plans

Guess they have to find out if he can bowl or not...would be a bit of a punt to ask him back on when the lead was down under fifty or so. And Southee can't bowl all day.

But you wonder if the need to have your best bowlers attacking straight after the break shouldn't trump all these other theories ? I'd have had at least one of Southee and Wagner starting. But we will see what a warmed up Henry can do...

Certainly wouldn't have started with Bracewell! NZ vastly overrate his bowling abilities; they did in the summer, too.

Stokes really doesn't look comfortable at all. Given how engrossed I am in this days play I get the "win the current Test" view but given his importance to England across formats and the year to come I can't help but wonder if he'd be better retiring hurt here, then coming back in if required at 9 down? It feels like there's a risk of exacerbating this knee issue when we've still got Foakes' batting to come.

Ha.. What do I know...Henry creating chances ...but NZ both short of slips and slips too short so Root and Stokes both getting away with it...

Mitchell is tall but even Curtley Ambrose would have found that one a bit high for him

Root meanwhile going on his merry way against Bracewell. Can they afford to keep him going ?

Duty281 wrote:Certainly wouldn't have started with Bracewell! NZ vastly overrate his bowling abilities; they did in the summer, too.

He is very limited. But they don't have Dan Vettori today so I suppose they feel he is their only option here - and he has given Stokes some tricky moments. Leaking runs like crazy though...if he can't get a break he's not going to leave many runs for anyone else to play with.

Even a limping Stokes will murder those drag downs...

Just 63 to win.

Absolutely fantastic innings from Root the BBQing of Brook aside. He's been back at his very best in this Test.

Henry is bowling well but looking a touch tired. Must surely be time to get Southee and/or Wagner into the attack.

Henry bowling really well ...back from injury remarkably unaffected ! Root unable to get after him so Bracewell still has some licence to probe at the other end.

Pitch remains flat ; but the odd ball does a little : NZ will feel if they can break this pair and get at a new batsman they are still in the game.

About 15 overs left to decide this one , I think. Though the scoring is going through a quiet phase just now with Henry giving nothing away. 200 up

They heard you , KC....Wagner coming back. Wonder how Stokes will handle him ?

Got him ! Stokes tried to pull and there is the big break ! Not sure Ben needed to try that...

Still 57 needed. Foakes and the tail now to help Joe home.

Game on.

I don't think Stokes was fit to either duck or actually play the short ball with a bit more venom from Wagner there. That knee was preventing him from making proper movements either forward or back.

Easy to say after the dismissal but as mentioned above I can't help but think Stokes retiring hurt with the opportunity to return, if needed, after some more physio attention might have been more shrewd.

Foakes survives the somewhat speculative review from NZ. Foakes didn't play that much better than Stokes though!

Good over from Wagner.

Some good and effective bowling from Wagner to get Stokes and ruffle Foakes. I also felt he should have had a second spell earlier, even before lunch.

Lose 1 more now and NZ would be in the box seats ....

Last 8 overs just 12 runs. Credit to Matt Henry. Probably led to that Stokes moment of madness.

Duty spoke earlier of a "tipping point" : feel we are nearing one now. Another wicket and it could all come crashing down...

And there it Is ! Root falls for the pull and NZ have their hands on the England throat ...