England's Winter of Cricket 2022/23

First topic message reminder :

The Lions are doing some Bazball v Sri Lanka A.

Sri Lanka A were bowled out for a paltry 136, Fisher with 5/34, and the Lions have already amassed 249/3 in 48 overs. Hameed, who's captain, 81 off 109, Lees 56 off 69, and Haines unbeaten with 62 from 72.

guildfordbat wrote:Some good and effective bowling from Wagner to get Stokes and ruffle Foakes. I also felt he should have had a second spell earlier, even before lunch.

Lose 1 more now and NZ would be in the box seats ....

They are now!

Life in Wagner yet.

I am a bit shocked , to be honest. Didn't think Root would lose his cool like that. He's played so well ; and with Foakes often a dependable supporter, and an ageing ball for the NZ bowlers , you'd have thought he'd have been patient.

Wagner indeed written off too soon ! That short ball trick still works.

He's probably glad he hasn't had Harry Brook or Jonny Bairstow to bowl at today. Not sure The Nighthawk will be able to do a similar job...

Arggghhhh. Popped outside for a second and come back in to Root having fallen. Such a shame for him to miss out on two tons in the Test and his thirtieth Test hundred simultaneously. What a way it would have been to bring up multiple milestones at once! He batted superbly until that ugly hook. Such a shame.

53 more runs looks a tall order now. Broad will swing . But Foakes is more known for steady rather than dominant play so hard to see the runs coming in a rush.

Suppose Henry must be nearing end of spell. But Southee has had a bit of a rest. Don't expect to see Bracewell again.

Wonder what WINVIZ thinks of the situation ? Does it operate in NZ ?

alfie wrote:53 more runs looks a tall order now. Broad will swing . But Foakes is more known for steady rather than dominant play so hard to see the runs coming in a rush.

Suppose Henry must be nearing end of spell. But Southee has had a bit of a rest. Don't expect to see Bracewell again.

Wonder what WINVIZ thinks of the situation ? Does it operate in NZ ?

It operates through CricViz so unless any of the broadcasters are partnering with them I'd presume not.

Broad goes. Heading towards the most embarrassing defeat in English test cricket history, barring Foakes playing some shots and Leach/Jimmy holding an end.

king_carlos wrote:Arggghhhh. Popped outside for a second and come back in to Root having fallen. Such a shame for him to miss out on two tons in the Test and his thirtieth Test hundred simultaneously. What a way it would have been to bring up multiple milestones at once! He batted superbly until that ugly hook. Such a shame.

Indeed. Multiple milestones : as you'd think once he got past the hundred and the target got under fifty he'd have been well on the way to winning the game too...

He had played a rather odd shot a few minutes ago so perhaps being tied down by Henry , plus the loss of Stokes , had upset his concentration. Still very uncharacteristic .

Aargh ...Broad gone for just 11 and I reckon this is pretty well done...can't see Foakes Leach and Anderson mustering another 43.

Duty281 wrote:Broad goes. Heading towards the most embarrassing defeat in English test cricket history, barring Foakes playing some shots and Leach/Jimmy holding an end.

No...won't beat Adelaide 2006/7. But is certainly up there...or down there , I suppose.

Does look like One That Got Away though. I am sure the Australian camp will be encouraged .

This situation reflects my concern about Foakes' batting at Test level. He's good and dependable, almost classical. However, he struggles to get out of third gear and give it welly. That's fine - and, indeed a strength - if he's batting at 7 or 8 supporting the likes of Root or Stokes. However, if he's left with just the tail, he tends to quickly get out in a failed attempt to up the tempo and rarely puts on many with them. I can't see how he could be fitted in at 5 or 6 (where he bats for Surrey with big hitter Jacks after him) but feel it would be helpful if he could.

And Broad playing the hitter role falls to the deserving Henry. 43 more for Foakes, Leach and Anderson to get an England win ....

Duty281 wrote:Broad goes. Heading towards the most embarrassing defeat in English test cricket history, barring Foakes playing some shots and Leach/Jimmy holding an end.

It really isn't at all when you think about the long list of innings defeats, repeated pummelings overseas across a series with teams completely falling apart, 1st innings routs bordering on the farcical, etc etc.

If they knew about Stokes being unable to bowl prior to enforcing the follow on then I'd certainly have questions over that decision with the aging attack.

It's been a cracking Test with 3 excellent centuries, two other very good nineties, bowlers looking right on top then struggling, other bowlers looking out the game then improving, five days of action. Brilliant Test match and an advert for the game. I'm still awake and watching at 2am for good reason.

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Broad goes. Heading towards the most embarrassing defeat in English test cricket history, barring Foakes playing some shots and Leach/Jimmy holding an end.

No...won't beat Adelaide 2006/7.  But is certainly up there...or down there , I suppose.

Does look like One That Got Away though. I am sure the Australian camp will be encouraged .

Adelaide was a tough one, but it was a loss against one of the greatest test teams of all time, who were hauled to victory by the ultimate master in Shane Warne.

This is England controlling the game, making an utterly moronic captaincy decision, and then getting into difficulty on a good batting wicket v a Division Two bowling attack.

king_carlos wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Broad goes. Heading towards the most embarrassing defeat in English test cricket history, barring Foakes playing some shots and Leach/Jimmy holding an end.

It really isn't at all when you think about the long list of innings defeats, repeated pummelings overseas across a series with teams completely falling apart, 1st innings routs bordering on the farcical, etc etc.

If they knew about Stokes being unable to bowl prior to enforcing the follow on then I'd certainly have questions over that decision with the aging attack.

It's been a cracking Test with 3 excellent centuries, two other very good nineties, bowlers looking right on top then struggling, other bowlers looking out the game then improving, five days of action. Brilliant Test match and an advert for the game. I'm still awake and watching at 2am for good reason.

Losing after enforcing the follow-on eclipses that in terms of embarrassment, if it happens. Would be a first for English cricket, and innings defeats/1st innings routs happen every year in the game. This would be rare and humiliating.

No denying its been entertaining.

You can't really blame Broad for getting out that way...teeing off and trying for a quick 25 was his best chance.

But quite a few earlier dismissals have been very much in the "careless" category.

Now Foakes is refusing singles to keep the strike ? Hmm. He's not a Stokes or a Bairstow so you'd imagine he will have to farm that strike for rather a long time to run down another 42. New ball in 17 overs...I think he will have to trust Leach...and indeed Leach will need to contribute some runs too.

They've pulled some rabbits from the hat these last dozen or so Tests. But I can't really see them getting out of this one.

Foakes appears to be planning to take a single off the 4th ball of every over for 43 consecutive overs. Good luck with that!

Yes, Foakes isn't in the mould of a bang-bang T20 player, so could be a bit of a crawl from here if England are to pull the rabbit from the hat again. Doesn't look like Leach is comfortable v this short ball barrage, either.

Jimmy to hit the winning runs?

Duty281 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Broad goes. Heading towards the most embarrassing defeat in English test cricket history, barring Foakes playing some shots and Leach/Jimmy holding an end.

It really isn't at all when you think about the long list of innings defeats, repeated pummelings overseas across a series with teams completely falling apart, 1st innings routs bordering on the farcical, etc etc.

If they knew about Stokes being unable to bowl prior to enforcing the follow on then I'd certainly have questions over that decision with the aging attack.

It's been a cracking Test with 3 excellent centuries, two other very good nineties, bowlers looking right on top then struggling, other bowlers looking out the game then improving, five days of action. Brilliant Test match and an advert for the game. I'm still awake and watching at 2am for good reason.

Losing after enforcing the follow-on eclipses that in terms of embarrassment, if it happens. Would be a first for English cricket, and innings defeats/1st innings routs happen every year in the game. This would be rare and humiliating.

No denying its been entertaining.

Clearly an agree to disagree then. I've felt embarrassed with English cricket on many an occasion but this really isn't one.

Had they not enforced the follow on they'd have had a chance to take the loss out the equation but a draw would have risen in liklihood as well I reckon. By enforcing a result either way become more likely which realistically is exactly the sort of call that has brought such success for this new side.

If they knew about Stokes being unable to bowl prior to the decision then I'd question it but I've questioned a huge number of calls from Stokes and McCullum that have turned out very very right. Bold calls will sometimes go wrong. As said above this just isn't something I feel any embarrassment over after seeing such a great Test match.

Back on the match situation I'd agree with Guildford's observation that it's going to take Foakes a long time to get them if he's turning down singles.

As I type that he top edges a four with a far more aggressive stroke!

Wagner looks by far the most threatening.

The other interesting question given the turning down of singles is at what point do NZ need to consider bringing the field up earlier in the over to get more than 2 balls at Leach? Engrossing stuff!

I am still going to take issue with you , Duty , over labelling the follow on call as "moronic".

I get you were always against it. It had risks attached , of course , which many captains wouldn't have taken. And it doesn't seem to have paid off , barring a miraculous late tail effort. But that is down to :

Disciplined and excellent NZ batting.
A lot of tough chances not taken by England.
Stokes' injuries handicap affecting bowling and batting.
Some rather loose England batting today...and indeed some very spirited NZ bowling !

A lot of factors that influence the result. Not all foreseeable - except by arch pessimists.

I wouldn't have condemned Stokes for batting again. I won't for going the way he did either.

englands new agression was always going to cost us at some point, feel like this is the one. lovely if we get there even though i cant see it this time. but watching england last few series has been fantastic to watch and im in even if if does cost a few defeats where we shouldnt have lost

I'll comment about the follow on after a few hours' kip. Sticking with the play now.

As said on comms, an ok over just then from Bracewell but surprised he returned. Maybe Southee remembers Foakes being stumped off him first dig.

And now Bracewell misses Foakes in the deep off the ever willing and threatening Wagner.

Bracewell missing one. Like Simon Jones at Edgbaston?

NZ not proactive enough. They need to bring the field up to Foakes earlier, and risk the boundary for the chance of getting six balls at Leach.

Ooft what a miss that is at this point. Absolutely terrible fielding it must be said. Outfielders running towards the ball for deep catches like that in pressure situations isn't unheard of. It can be an instinct. Ball in the air, come towards it, oh no, can't get back. One of Stokes' most unbelievable grabs happened with him doing similar in fact! That's a shocker from Bracewell though.

26 needed... Engrossing stuff.

Bloody hell, what a shot by Foakes. Baseball!

Duty281 wrote:Bloody hell, what a shot by Foakes. Baseball!

That's Stokes at Headingley esque in it's slight ridiculousness!

And another.

16 needed.

What a game.

Meanwhile they've somehow got this chase down under thirty...at some point this could start to get "tight" again...

But NZ will still fancy they have the whip hand. Will they not ?

Hmm. Foakes finding some boundaries. Only 15 now !

The thing with these late order chases is though : just when the chasing team gets really close , the pressure goes right back on them. Often the last ten runs are the hardest...

Wagner looking a bit tired in that over. Maybe not quite the energy to bowl those spells as he once did. Somewhat understandably given he's the only bowler we've really seen bowl the way he did at his best!

Southee back in and presumably fresh. A big moment.

Might be reaching for the bottle of Scotch...bit early in the day ; but still...

Southee trying his hand again...tea any minute , no ? Maybe NZ will be the happier side to go off for a reset ?

Ten to win...

Tea delayed ? OK , four overs I'm hearing. New rule I presume.? Might be enough...

This is very poor from New Zealand. Overdoing the short stuff, bowling wides (x2), and putting zero pressure on Foakes as he tries to take a single to get the strike at the start of the next over.

Agreed. Paine in 2019 levels mismanagement to not bring the field up there. Surely you need to gamble for more than one ball at Leach now?

10 needed...

alfie wrote:Might be reaching for the bottle of Scotch...bit early in the day ; but still...

Southee trying his hand again...tea any minute , no ? Maybe NZ will be the happier side to go off for a reset ?

Ten to win...

Tea delayed ? OK , four overs I'm hearing. New rule I presume.? Might be enough...

I always thought it was a extra half hour if the innings was close to ending or the result was close, but four overs extra isn't something I've heard of before.

Might not be done by these extra four overs!

Oh, Foakesy. Finally mis-controls a short one.

Seven to win. One wicket left. Tie? Never seen one in a test yet.

Not sure if Foakes proved me totally wrong or illustrated some of my concerns ... but WOW! What happens next in this fantastic Test?

Yet another twist. What a match.

A really good hand from Foakes in the circumstance.

Does Leach now protect Jimmy for the first 4 balls of each over?

As I said before...last ten runs the hardest !

Foakes so good today but he's fallen within inches of the finishing line...

Wagner a great catch

What a finish. Jimmy and Jack... Can they find seven runs ?

guildfordbat wrote:Not sure if Foakes proved me totally wrong or illustrated some of my concerns ... but WOW! What happens next in this fantastic Test?

Similar to my feelings Guildford. He simultaneously seems to lack the array of skills usually needed to score as a Test batter but then keeps finding a way to stay in and score runs in key situations. I'd say he's earnt the right to start the summer at 7 with the gloves regardless of how things end from here.

A couple of overs ago Wagner bowled an excellent yorker which Foakes did very well to dig out. Could do worse than try it again at one of these two.

Oh Leachy that is ugly. Both feet of the ground and just wafting. Anything could happen it feels!

Jimmy with the best four in cricket history.

Oh my and again but it lands safe

6 to win. One strike could do it.

Yes Jimmy!!!

Could we see a tie...?

king_carlos wrote:Could we see a tie...?

Might be the appropriate result ?

Oh, Jimmy. What a test. Well done to New Zealand.

One run win. Just the second in test history. They got England back for the World Cup.

So nearly a wide...

But there it is ... NZ win by one run ! What an amazing Test Match

Outstanding Test match. 

If we had to lose, I'm delighted it was Wagner who finally won it for NZ. He always gives it everything. Just what team mates, true opponents and spectators love to see.

Thanks for your company, gentlemen. Off to bed to work out my MoM. Until our morning. 

What a game of cricket. Absolutely breathtaking stuff.

You have to feel for Jimmy. The curse of being a number 11 is being there in these moments. You get some good ones such as holding out with Monty at Cardiff of course. But so often if your number 11 is out there at the very end of a chase it will end in a loss. A heartbreaking one on this occasion.

An absolutely magnificent Test match.

With that I'll follow Guildford's lead and head for my bed. Goodnight folks. More thoughts on the Test, series and winter as a whole tomorrow.