Scotland v Italy, final day of 6Ns

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Italy

BT Murrayfield

KO 1230pm

I thought I'd start this as I want to find out what changes you'd make for next week due to, 1) poor performance today, 2) injury worries to Richie Gray, Finn Russell, Stuart Hogg and Blair Kinghorn and 3) the 6 day turnaround.

This is a potential banana skin but we have enough attacking threats that SHOULD have too much for this Italy team that have just lost at home to arguably the worse team this 6N. Imho we need to win this to firstly appease the supporters are had to endure that dire 2nd half today, secondly to end the campaign on a high (likely ending 3rd) and finally to give us something to build on for the world cup warm ups and the world cup itself.

I posted in the 6Ns build up thread that I think today probably seals Gregor's fate at the end of the year so he'll be looking to win what is likely his last yN match as head coach.

I can't predict a potential 23 as the OPs of the other matchday threads have so I'll leave that to you peeps :P.

funnyExiledScot wrote:By the way, got 4 spares for Saturday if anyone is interested. PM me. Obviously top notch seats. You'll be practically sat on Princess Anne's lap.

Butler service and footmen to keep riff raff like jimbo away?

tigertattie wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:By the way, got 4 spares for Saturday if anyone is interested. PM me. Obviously top notch seats. You'll be practically sat on Princess Anne's lap.

Butler service and footmen to keep riff raff like jimbo away?

100%.

George Carlin wrote:The prospect of Redpath back has cheered me up. I know plenty of Bath fans who think he's still dining out on that first cap against England but quality is quality and he needs to be given the chance to get that mojo back.

Is Capuozzo the Deadly Pixie still injured? From a partisan perspective, I kinda hope so.

Yep, Thomasso Allan at 15 in his place. I would still worry about more than Ange though, the limes of Negri, Brez, Bruno and the "exciting young winger Gesi" (as Eggchashers said about the winger) are all to be stopped.

I see on FB and Twitter that fellow fans still mumping and moaning about BK at 10 but I put them in their place and told them to back the lad and support the team or shut up haha.

Highland Shaun wrote:

George Carlin wrote:The prospect of Redpath back has cheered me up. I know plenty of Bath fans who think he's still dining out on that first cap against England but quality is quality and he needs to be given the chance to get that mojo back.

Is Capuozzo the Deadly Pixie still injured? From a partisan perspective, I kinda hope so.

Yep, Thomasso Allan at 15 in his place.   I would still worry about more than Ange though, the limes of Negri, Brez, Bruno and the "exciting young winger Gesi" (as Eggchashers said about the winger) are all to be stopped.

I see on FB and Twitter that fellow fans still mumping and moaning about BK at 10 but I put them in their place and told them to back the lad and support the team or shut up haha.

You can both support the team AND complain about the BK10 experiment, the two aren't mutually exclusive!

If Healy has a good amount of time off the bench and does well that might put the whole thing to bed. Kinghorn is like our version of Kurtley Beale, definitely a useful player to have in the squad.

Morning peeps

Fes, I have Pm'ed you.

Everyone else... the Tombola has really pulled a sneaky one here.
Blarehorn has had a really good tournament so far. Whenever he has come on he's played well. If he was starting at 15 tomorrow we'd all be fairly sanguine about it. Except GC who'd be comme ci comme ca. Cos he's a world class cunning linguist.
However, the Blarehorn has not started at 10 in a competitive international for a while. All too often the Italian match is very much a lose-lose scenario: win and it's only Italy, lose and it's a disaster. Whatever the Luvvies' third choice 10 does tomorrow that is good...well, it won't be nearly as good as Dancer would have done. And if he gets the shepherd's crook early and Touchy Feely comes on and has a competent match then his good work in the previous four matches will be all but forgotten.
Blarehorn's biggest asset, for me, is with ball in hand running at space. His distribution is functional and his kicking is not in the same class as Meatball or Ross The Wonder Kid. Blarehorn has, as the cliche has it, a howitzer of a boot and is great for clearing long from our 22, but he doesn't have the repertoire of chips and dinks and grubbers that the best 10's have.
Last week Wales had a fairly one dimensional gameplan: kick into the Italy 22 and allow them to try to run when it isn't on. That's all they did. Italy still managed to create three or four try scoring chances that they muffed up. If our kicking game is loose then they will create a handful of chances. I don't think they will be as inefficient as they were last week and I foresee them scoring two or three tries. Can we score four or five?
With Dancer, yes. With Blarehorn

Good analysis Jimbo, that was a clever gameplan Gatland used for Italy and very effective. We can pretty much follow suit because what is the Italian plan B? I have yet to see one other than running rugby.

Agree there, bsando BUT Italy still managed to make 10 line breaks against a well organised defence.
I think that if we score first we win. As you say their Plan B has been as absent as Kwasi Kwarteng in the Commons post budget debates.
We score first and they try to run it back from everywhere. We kick smart and they cough up penalties.
It's a game plan the Scotland lads should be familiar with: everyone was doing it to us back in the days of the fastest rugby in the world.

Italy will be really awkward for us because in many respects we are similar sides. Rubbish at kicking and both play high risk stuff and enjoy to counter from deep. If we try to change the game plan too much, it could stifle us and play into their hands. I've been impressed with their set piece as well, so it's good that we have a decent bunch of forwards on the bench.

The trick for us tomorrow will be judgement. Seeing when it's on and when it isn't. Get that wrong and they'll hurt us. Similarly we have to be brave enough to punish them when they overplay their hand, which they will at times. I worry about the missed kicks at goal already!

I think we'll win, but I think Italy will have at least one LBP to show for it.

This isn't the wooden spoon decider this year? Strange times.

mikey_dragon wrote:This isn't the wooden spoon decider this year? Strange times.

It is if Italy win.

Agree with above, I’d hope that Kinghorn and Smith can kick well and make good decisions. But tuipulotu has been a good leader in the backs and will hopefully keep things organised. Wry much Townsends man.

Someone once said "the more things change the more they remain the same". It may have been Jacques Tati, because it was in French and he had a lot to say about such things.

Today Shona and Shug become the first centre pairing since 2017 to start all five 6 Nations matches for Scotland. Thanks to disco for this
But just look at the others

2017 – Alex Dunbar / Huw Jones
2013 – Matt Scott / Sean Lamont
2005 – Hugo Southwell / Andy Craig

One is undoubtedly one of the best pairings we have ever had. The other two both have a player who clearly contravened the Trades Descriptions Act by claiming to be a centre.

We are living in blessed times.

2005 really was the peak of a grim period for Scottish rugby.

That was also my formative rugby years in my late teens - the kids these days don't know how good they've got it!

As a young up and coming 13 I had Andy Craig as a role model...

RDW wrote:2005 really was the peak of a grim period for Scottish rugby.

That was also my formative rugby years in my late teens - the kids these days don't know how good they've got it!

As a young  up and coming 13 I had Andy Craig as a role model...

It showed

jimbopip wrote:

RDW wrote:2005 really was the peak of a grim period for Scottish rugby.

That was also my formative rugby years in my late teens - the kids these days don't know how good they've got it!

As a young  up and coming 13 I had Andy Craig as a role model...

It showed

Were you that weird old guy watching our games from the bushes?

I don't even remember Andy Craig. shows how much of an impact he had :-)

My goodness we were mince then.

TJ wrote:I don't even remember Andy Craig.  shows how much of an impact he had :-)

My goodness we were mince then.

I'll see you Andy Craig and raise you Ben Hinshelwood - 19 caps

Could be the most interesting game of the week. If the Italy that played well v France and Ireland turn up, it should be a close one, especially with Scotland's absentee list. But if it's the Italy that took on England and Wales, then it'll be Scotland by plenty.

Obviously no confidence in Kinghorns kicking.

Quite quick to go to the pocket for scrum pens.

I think that's 4 pens on the bounce plus the free kick so not really. It's unusual to see that many scrum pens in quick succession but not to see a yellow after that many infringements.

We’re really missing the variation that Finn brings, the Italian defensive line is up so quickly it’s absolutely crying out for some little kicks over the top to keep them honest

Yup

I don't dislike Kinghorn at 10 as much as some but he is no Dancer thats for sure

king_carlos wrote:I think that's 4 pens on the bounce plus the free kick so not really. It's unusual to see that many scrum pens in quick succession but not to see a yellow after that many infringements.

3. But fair enough. As long as he's consistent i suppose.

Except according to Nige the last time it was taken down by Scotland ...

Hogg, Turkish teeth and hair….

Interesting that before the try we ran almost everything off 9. Afterwards we began running off 10. Blarehorn isn't really controlling the game and I wonder how long before Toonie decides to go Touchy Feely.

Baffling pen leads to another try for Scotland ...

That was a terrible penalty call from Gardner, and confusing communication as well. Cost Italy 7 points.

Heaf wrote:Baffling pen leads to another try for Scotland ...

The off feet one?

The one that Nige said should have been play on ...

Italy waste another opportunity

Heaf wrote:The one that Nige said should have been play on ...

I mean owens is wrong. This ref giving a fair amount of lee way to play the ball off feet see the pens to Scotland for both props either side of the break. But in that instance the first guy is off his feet he's warned then the second guy also uses his hands at the same ruck and is iff his feet too which isn't allowed. You may say that once the first Italian slows the ball down through illegal play it should just be ignored but it's def a pen.

I'd have to see it again but looked like the ball was exposed and available to be picked up ... I trust Mr O

I think Italy are getting there. A bit more accuracy and they’ll become a good team. Benetton are pretty good, as are their U20’s. Italian Rugby should come good sooner than later.

Heaf wrote:I'd have to see it again but looked like the ball was exposed and available to be picked up ... I trust Mr O

If its available then it is only available because the first guy went off his feet. So again the ref is right to pull it back. Owens is wrong on that. But you could say its an inconsistent approach to not supporting his weight as others have gotten away with it.

Nicely finished - shame they don't have a decent kicker

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Heaf wrote:I'd have to see it again but looked like the ball was exposed and available to be picked up ... I trust Mr O

If its available then it is only available because the first guy went off his feet. So again the ref is right to pull it back. Owens is wrong on that. But you could say its an inconsistent approach to not supporting his weight as others have gotten away with it.

Bit of problem if that's the case then - you can't give one team the benefit of the doubt then ping the other for the same thing ...

This has got a bit harem scarem ....

Scotland making some important turnovers ...

Hope Italy win, then everyone can stop talking about that game in Cardiff .

Squeaky bum time

We don’t deserve to win this, we’re absolutely honking in this half

Italians have butchered these opportunities all tournament.

Offside yes, but it went forward from Italy first.

Can Italy finally finish one off ...

That'll be a no then

No 7&1/2 wrote:Italians have butchered these opportunities all tournament.

Same. Same.

Did that actually go forwards?