Burrell and rugby
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mikey_dragon
No 7&1/2
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Burrell and rugby
Club statement: RFU investigation
Saturday 1 April 2023
Following Luther's allegations in the Mail on Sunday interview in June 2022 as his last club, and recognising our duty of care, we immediately launched an internal investigation to determine whether any of the incidents referenced in the article happened during his time with Newcastle Rugby Ltd, despite no individuals being specifically named.
We do not tolerate discrimination of any nature within our business, and we are committed to ensuring that any allegations of this nature are taken seriously.
To ensure an impartial process, the Club later asked the RFU to conduct the investigation and this investigation has been ongoing since October 2022 without any interference from the Club and with our full cooperation throughout the process.
During the process more than 90 people who work, or who have worked for Newcastle Rugby Ltd, were interviewed and the subsequent findings have been produced by an independent King’s Counsel (KC), including the executive summary which is due to released imminently.
Key findings from the investigation
The report has concluded that on the balance of probabilities the allegations made in the Daily Mail article are true but there is insufficient evidence to say whether these allegations occurred at the club.
The occurrences, that on the balance of probabilities are more likely to have happened during his time with Newcastle Falcons than not, were found to be;
• One Whatsapp message in a private communication group.
One comment was made in a private Whatsapp group. It is our understanding that a, or a number of, private WhatsApp groups exist and that these groups may contain current or former employees of the Club, however we have no visibility of who the members are. These WhatsApp groups were not provided, recommended, sanctioned or policed by the Club, nor does the Club have any access to them. They are private communication groups.
However, we are educating all employees that if they ever witness a discriminatory or inappropriate comment between employees in such a group, we encourage them to speak up and raise it with the Club at the time with details of the comments and the people involved. Should the Club ever receive a specific concern or formal complaint from an employee of comments made to another employee on such a group we would naturally take all possible steps, in line with our HR policies, to action this appropriately. As it is, such concerns have never been brought to the Club or its management by any employees.
• Two other incidents (one directed at the Player and one witnessed by the Player).
It is our understanding from the report findings that in relation to the two other incidents referenced in the executive summary one occurred on a night out and the other on an away trip. However, no further actionable evidence that would allow us to go down a disciplinary route as an employer has been provided i.e. names, dates, times or places. Naturally should any of that information ever come to light we would take all possible steps, in line with our HR policies, to action this appropriately.
Key recommendations from the investigation
• Additional training and education recommended for employees and additional signposting for reporting concerns.
We take our responsibility to help drive education and development in this area very seriously and are very much aligned with Luther’s aim of educating and eliminating any discrimination from across the sport. While we had already embarked on a full review of policies, procedures and training provisions following our return to work and the removal of red zone restrictions around playing and coaching staff after COVID in May 2022, we intend to take all possible learnings from the investigation report to ensure we continue to take every positive action we can for the better of our employees, our sponsors, our club, our loyal supporters and our game.
Luther raised numerous allegations and it remains gravely concerning that any individual would be subject to discriminatory behaviour within the game we all love, or within any walk of life. As such we welcome and support the wider action being taken by the RFU, alongside Premiership Rugby and the RPA, in terms of the wider listening exercise they’ve conducted across the sport and the resulting inclusion and diversity action plan – details of which are due to be released imminently.
As a club we have an equality, diversity and inclusion policy in place, any breach of which would qualify as a serious disciplinary matter. We have delivered ED&I training to all our employees, have bystander training sessions scheduled for all employees and are committed to annual refresher training. We are also in discussion with the RFU about training that will be provided more widely across the sport and our owner has met with Luther to further discuss how we can all work together more closely to ensure rugby is a welcoming and inclusive environment for everyone.
There are also other HR policies and practices in place with regards to whistleblowing, raising grievances and flagging a concern. We have taken steps to ensure these are regularly reviewed and training and guidance is delivered annually, and we remain committed to continuous improvement in line with best practice. We have also increased our signposting to this information for all employees and have recently started to implement communication lines that will ensure employees have as many avenues as possible to utilise if they wish to flag a concern with someone outside of their department. We will also continue to work alongside the RFU, Prem Rugby and the RPA to further our own education as we strive to achieve best practice.
It is incredibly disappointing to learn that any individuals have ever felt subject to discriminatory behaviour during their time with us and we want to make it very clear that we do not condone any discriminatory behaviour, nor do we endorse the idea of classifying this as banter (as referenced in the independent executive summary). Had any reports of this nature been made to HR or management they would have been dealt with in the appropriate manner.
Given that after an extensive investigation there remains no way to identify those involved in any of the allegations outlined above, that many staff and players have left since the time Luther was at the Club, that the report refers to generally positive feedback on the culture and behaviours of the Club and given that Luther’s stated aim was to educate and improve things for the future, going forward the Club will be focusing on education and reinforcement of the aims and processes within our policies, as recommended in the report.
Saturday 1 April 2023
Following Luther's allegations in the Mail on Sunday interview in June 2022 as his last club, and recognising our duty of care, we immediately launched an internal investigation to determine whether any of the incidents referenced in the article happened during his time with Newcastle Rugby Ltd, despite no individuals being specifically named.
We do not tolerate discrimination of any nature within our business, and we are committed to ensuring that any allegations of this nature are taken seriously.
To ensure an impartial process, the Club later asked the RFU to conduct the investigation and this investigation has been ongoing since October 2022 without any interference from the Club and with our full cooperation throughout the process.
During the process more than 90 people who work, or who have worked for Newcastle Rugby Ltd, were interviewed and the subsequent findings have been produced by an independent King’s Counsel (KC), including the executive summary which is due to released imminently.
Key findings from the investigation
The report has concluded that on the balance of probabilities the allegations made in the Daily Mail article are true but there is insufficient evidence to say whether these allegations occurred at the club.
The occurrences, that on the balance of probabilities are more likely to have happened during his time with Newcastle Falcons than not, were found to be;
• One Whatsapp message in a private communication group.
One comment was made in a private Whatsapp group. It is our understanding that a, or a number of, private WhatsApp groups exist and that these groups may contain current or former employees of the Club, however we have no visibility of who the members are. These WhatsApp groups were not provided, recommended, sanctioned or policed by the Club, nor does the Club have any access to them. They are private communication groups.
However, we are educating all employees that if they ever witness a discriminatory or inappropriate comment between employees in such a group, we encourage them to speak up and raise it with the Club at the time with details of the comments and the people involved. Should the Club ever receive a specific concern or formal complaint from an employee of comments made to another employee on such a group we would naturally take all possible steps, in line with our HR policies, to action this appropriately. As it is, such concerns have never been brought to the Club or its management by any employees.
• Two other incidents (one directed at the Player and one witnessed by the Player).
It is our understanding from the report findings that in relation to the two other incidents referenced in the executive summary one occurred on a night out and the other on an away trip. However, no further actionable evidence that would allow us to go down a disciplinary route as an employer has been provided i.e. names, dates, times or places. Naturally should any of that information ever come to light we would take all possible steps, in line with our HR policies, to action this appropriately.
Key recommendations from the investigation
• Additional training and education recommended for employees and additional signposting for reporting concerns.
We take our responsibility to help drive education and development in this area very seriously and are very much aligned with Luther’s aim of educating and eliminating any discrimination from across the sport. While we had already embarked on a full review of policies, procedures and training provisions following our return to work and the removal of red zone restrictions around playing and coaching staff after COVID in May 2022, we intend to take all possible learnings from the investigation report to ensure we continue to take every positive action we can for the better of our employees, our sponsors, our club, our loyal supporters and our game.
Luther raised numerous allegations and it remains gravely concerning that any individual would be subject to discriminatory behaviour within the game we all love, or within any walk of life. As such we welcome and support the wider action being taken by the RFU, alongside Premiership Rugby and the RPA, in terms of the wider listening exercise they’ve conducted across the sport and the resulting inclusion and diversity action plan – details of which are due to be released imminently.
As a club we have an equality, diversity and inclusion policy in place, any breach of which would qualify as a serious disciplinary matter. We have delivered ED&I training to all our employees, have bystander training sessions scheduled for all employees and are committed to annual refresher training. We are also in discussion with the RFU about training that will be provided more widely across the sport and our owner has met with Luther to further discuss how we can all work together more closely to ensure rugby is a welcoming and inclusive environment for everyone.
There are also other HR policies and practices in place with regards to whistleblowing, raising grievances and flagging a concern. We have taken steps to ensure these are regularly reviewed and training and guidance is delivered annually, and we remain committed to continuous improvement in line with best practice. We have also increased our signposting to this information for all employees and have recently started to implement communication lines that will ensure employees have as many avenues as possible to utilise if they wish to flag a concern with someone outside of their department. We will also continue to work alongside the RFU, Prem Rugby and the RPA to further our own education as we strive to achieve best practice.
It is incredibly disappointing to learn that any individuals have ever felt subject to discriminatory behaviour during their time with us and we want to make it very clear that we do not condone any discriminatory behaviour, nor do we endorse the idea of classifying this as banter (as referenced in the independent executive summary). Had any reports of this nature been made to HR or management they would have been dealt with in the appropriate manner.
Given that after an extensive investigation there remains no way to identify those involved in any of the allegations outlined above, that many staff and players have left since the time Luther was at the Club, that the report refers to generally positive feedback on the culture and behaviours of the Club and given that Luther’s stated aim was to educate and improve things for the future, going forward the Club will be focusing on education and reinforcement of the aims and processes within our policies, as recommended in the report.
Last edited by No 7&1/2 on Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Burrell and rugby
From the beeb:
'Former England centre Luther Burrell says he is "proud" and has "a sense of closure" after a Rugby Football Union investigation found his claims of racism in the sport were true.
The governing body says his revelations have prompted it to fast-track publication of a new strategy to promote inclusion in the elite game.
The RFU has also published the findings of research which found that "in every area of elite rugby, players had experienced some form of racism".
Last year the governing body looked into Burrell's allegations, taking over an inquiry launched by Newcastle Falcons - his final club.
The RFU says the report - published on Tuesday and in which no individuals are named - concludes his claims were true "on balance of probability" and that his evidence was "reliable".
It says there is "insufficient evidence" to say all the abuse happened at Newcastle, apart from a player's WhatsApp message "which contained a racist comment".
But Burrell - who has not identified those involved - was also found to have suffered two further incidents of verbal racist abuse.
Newcastle have said these incidents were on a night out and on an away fixture, and that it had no access to the WhatsApp group. The club said the incidents "are more likely to have happened during his time with Newcastle Falcons than not", but it was not made aware of them when they occurred.
The investigation report says: "The abuse was hurtful, undermined [Burrell's] dignity, and clearly had an adverse effect on him. His motivation for making the allegations now was his wish to eradicate such racist behaviour from rugby union."
It says it was "concerned over the lack of training" at Newcastle on equality, diversity and inclusion policies.
Speaking in his first interview since the investigation concluded this week, Burrell told BBC Sport: "Does it provide me with a sense of closure? I believe so, yes.
"It's been a tough eight to 10 months. I was disappointed initially by the lack of support shown from some of my peers.
"It was as if my comments were being dismissed. It was almost like people needed proof, and now this has come out people will understand that what I was saying has been deemed to be the truth. And we can all hopefully move on and generate change. I'm proud of what I've done, and I'm proud of the support that I've had."
Burrell hopes speaking out helps eradicate racism in rugby union
'Abhorrent'
Burrell, 35, who is of Jamaican descent, spoke out in June 2022 about his experiences, saying racist "banter" had become "normalised" among team-mates and that racism was "rife" in the sport.
"To call anybody a slave is not funny, so it was abhorrent behaviour. It was something that affects my dignity as a player, it affects me as a human as a father," he said after being presented with the findings of the investigation.
The report said the RFU should consider launching a further disciplinary inquiry, but in a statement the governing body said it had chosen not to and "instead will continue to work with the club" to improve training and whistleblowing processes.
When asked why he had not identified those responsible for what he called "abhorrent" abuse, Burrell said: "This has not been a witch hunt.
"It's not about retribution. This is about me finally having my voice heard. I've always said that this has ultimately not been about me, this has been about generational change within the sport."
"I hope that they feel a sense of embarrassment that they publicly said that to me in a working space. However, this is not about me victimising them, because they have livelihoods, they have families.
"Do I hold hate or judgement for the persecutors? Not really no, because this racial 'banter' is complex.
"I have children and friends with children who love rugby, and I cannot be having them exposed to these micro-aggressions and perceived banter… and I hope from here on this will be removed from the professional environment and the grassroots.
"Based on the evidence they [the RFU] had, they have reached a fair judgement. I don't expect them to investigate further... my experiences have been enough to prove what has gone on. I'm not too disheartened by that."
'Brutal banter'
The investigation interviewed 93 current and former employees of the club who were at Kingston Park during the 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons when Burrell played for Newcastle.
The report also concluded:
"There was support for what [Burrell] alleged in the evidence of at least two other employees" of Newcastle.
"Other individuals suffered or witnessed discriminatory behaviour."
"There was other inappropriate behaviour including two fights on two separate occasions involving players at the club."
"Many of the employees stated that culture at the club was good, however, there was 'banter' between players which was sometimes harsh, even brutal" and that "the appropriateness of this banter needs to be considered by the club."
"Almost all senior coaches and players confirm that there had been no equality, diversity and inclusion training or education on safe social media use."
"I'll be keeping a close eye on how the club evolves," said Burrell. "I know that they have implemented new structures.
"We've got a lot of work to do to eradicate these feelings and these comments - and the cultural differences within rugby union as well. However, I believe it's going in the right direction."
'Gravely concerning'
Newcastle said it was "gravely concerning" that anyone would be subject to discriminatory behaviour in rugby.
The club added: "It is incredibly disappointing to learn that any individuals have ever felt subject to discriminatory behaviour during their time with us and we want to make it very clear that we do not condone any discriminatory behaviour.
"Had any reports of this nature been made to HR or management they would have been dealt with in the appropriate manner.
"Given that after an extensive investigation there remains no way to identify those involved in any of the allegations outlined, and given that Luther's stated aim was to educate and improve things for the future, going forward the club will be focusing on education and reinforcement of the aims and processes within our policies, as recommended in the report."
Action plan
The RFU says a new action plan to tackle discrimination has been "accelerated in light of Luther's experience", and that research conducted last year found:
"In every area of elite rugby - men's and women's, national team, clubs and academies - players had experienced some form of racism."
"Classism is an issue which affects the game and fuels an elitist perception."
"Reporting of incidents of discrimination is low across the elite game."
"The burden to call out poor behaviour and discrimination tends to land on under-represented groups."
"Efforts by the game to respond to discrimination to date, while well intended, have been either short-lived or perceived as performative."
"While there is a sense that discrimination is decreasing in the game broadly, this trend is moving at a slower pace for women and ethnically diverse communities."
RFU chief executive Bill Sweeney said: "Luther was very brave to come forward and share his experiences of racism and classism in the game.
"To embed the change we all want to see following Luther's frank and disturbing feedback to us about his experiences, requires collective action from all the major stakeholders in the English game.
"The findings from our research into racism and classism in rugby union have been revealing and have hardened our resolve to address and remove these forms of discrimination and experiences from our game and put inclusion at its very heart."
After spells at Leeds Carnegie and Sale Sharks, Burrell spent seven years at Northampton Saints from 2012 to 2019, winning the 2013-14 Premiership title and making 15 appearances for England between 2014 and 2016.
He switched codes to play for rugby league side Warrington Wolves in 2019, before returning to union with Newcastle in 2020.
Burrell left Falcons in June, shortly after detailing his experiences of racism'
Would like to say it's unbelievable but it's not.
'Former England centre Luther Burrell says he is "proud" and has "a sense of closure" after a Rugby Football Union investigation found his claims of racism in the sport were true.
The governing body says his revelations have prompted it to fast-track publication of a new strategy to promote inclusion in the elite game.
The RFU has also published the findings of research which found that "in every area of elite rugby, players had experienced some form of racism".
Last year the governing body looked into Burrell's allegations, taking over an inquiry launched by Newcastle Falcons - his final club.
The RFU says the report - published on Tuesday and in which no individuals are named - concludes his claims were true "on balance of probability" and that his evidence was "reliable".
It says there is "insufficient evidence" to say all the abuse happened at Newcastle, apart from a player's WhatsApp message "which contained a racist comment".
But Burrell - who has not identified those involved - was also found to have suffered two further incidents of verbal racist abuse.
Newcastle have said these incidents were on a night out and on an away fixture, and that it had no access to the WhatsApp group. The club said the incidents "are more likely to have happened during his time with Newcastle Falcons than not", but it was not made aware of them when they occurred.
The investigation report says: "The abuse was hurtful, undermined [Burrell's] dignity, and clearly had an adverse effect on him. His motivation for making the allegations now was his wish to eradicate such racist behaviour from rugby union."
It says it was "concerned over the lack of training" at Newcastle on equality, diversity and inclusion policies.
Speaking in his first interview since the investigation concluded this week, Burrell told BBC Sport: "Does it provide me with a sense of closure? I believe so, yes.
"It's been a tough eight to 10 months. I was disappointed initially by the lack of support shown from some of my peers.
"It was as if my comments were being dismissed. It was almost like people needed proof, and now this has come out people will understand that what I was saying has been deemed to be the truth. And we can all hopefully move on and generate change. I'm proud of what I've done, and I'm proud of the support that I've had."
Burrell hopes speaking out helps eradicate racism in rugby union
'Abhorrent'
Burrell, 35, who is of Jamaican descent, spoke out in June 2022 about his experiences, saying racist "banter" had become "normalised" among team-mates and that racism was "rife" in the sport.
"To call anybody a slave is not funny, so it was abhorrent behaviour. It was something that affects my dignity as a player, it affects me as a human as a father," he said after being presented with the findings of the investigation.
The report said the RFU should consider launching a further disciplinary inquiry, but in a statement the governing body said it had chosen not to and "instead will continue to work with the club" to improve training and whistleblowing processes.
When asked why he had not identified those responsible for what he called "abhorrent" abuse, Burrell said: "This has not been a witch hunt.
"It's not about retribution. This is about me finally having my voice heard. I've always said that this has ultimately not been about me, this has been about generational change within the sport."
"I hope that they feel a sense of embarrassment that they publicly said that to me in a working space. However, this is not about me victimising them, because they have livelihoods, they have families.
"Do I hold hate or judgement for the persecutors? Not really no, because this racial 'banter' is complex.
"I have children and friends with children who love rugby, and I cannot be having them exposed to these micro-aggressions and perceived banter… and I hope from here on this will be removed from the professional environment and the grassroots.
"Based on the evidence they [the RFU] had, they have reached a fair judgement. I don't expect them to investigate further... my experiences have been enough to prove what has gone on. I'm not too disheartened by that."
'Brutal banter'
The investigation interviewed 93 current and former employees of the club who were at Kingston Park during the 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons when Burrell played for Newcastle.
The report also concluded:
"There was support for what [Burrell] alleged in the evidence of at least two other employees" of Newcastle.
"Other individuals suffered or witnessed discriminatory behaviour."
"There was other inappropriate behaviour including two fights on two separate occasions involving players at the club."
"Many of the employees stated that culture at the club was good, however, there was 'banter' between players which was sometimes harsh, even brutal" and that "the appropriateness of this banter needs to be considered by the club."
"Almost all senior coaches and players confirm that there had been no equality, diversity and inclusion training or education on safe social media use."
"I'll be keeping a close eye on how the club evolves," said Burrell. "I know that they have implemented new structures.
"We've got a lot of work to do to eradicate these feelings and these comments - and the cultural differences within rugby union as well. However, I believe it's going in the right direction."
'Gravely concerning'
Newcastle said it was "gravely concerning" that anyone would be subject to discriminatory behaviour in rugby.
The club added: "It is incredibly disappointing to learn that any individuals have ever felt subject to discriminatory behaviour during their time with us and we want to make it very clear that we do not condone any discriminatory behaviour.
"Had any reports of this nature been made to HR or management they would have been dealt with in the appropriate manner.
"Given that after an extensive investigation there remains no way to identify those involved in any of the allegations outlined, and given that Luther's stated aim was to educate and improve things for the future, going forward the club will be focusing on education and reinforcement of the aims and processes within our policies, as recommended in the report."
Action plan
The RFU says a new action plan to tackle discrimination has been "accelerated in light of Luther's experience", and that research conducted last year found:
"In every area of elite rugby - men's and women's, national team, clubs and academies - players had experienced some form of racism."
"Classism is an issue which affects the game and fuels an elitist perception."
"Reporting of incidents of discrimination is low across the elite game."
"The burden to call out poor behaviour and discrimination tends to land on under-represented groups."
"Efforts by the game to respond to discrimination to date, while well intended, have been either short-lived or perceived as performative."
"While there is a sense that discrimination is decreasing in the game broadly, this trend is moving at a slower pace for women and ethnically diverse communities."
RFU chief executive Bill Sweeney said: "Luther was very brave to come forward and share his experiences of racism and classism in the game.
"To embed the change we all want to see following Luther's frank and disturbing feedback to us about his experiences, requires collective action from all the major stakeholders in the English game.
"The findings from our research into racism and classism in rugby union have been revealing and have hardened our resolve to address and remove these forms of discrimination and experiences from our game and put inclusion at its very heart."
After spells at Leeds Carnegie and Sale Sharks, Burrell spent seven years at Northampton Saints from 2012 to 2019, winning the 2013-14 Premiership title and making 15 appearances for England between 2014 and 2016.
He switched codes to play for rugby league side Warrington Wolves in 2019, before returning to union with Newcastle in 2020.
Burrell left Falcons in June, shortly after detailing his experiences of racism'
Would like to say it's unbelievable but it's not.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Burrell and rugby
I get how racism can creep in, in the form of 'racist banter', I've witnessed it in the past. Good on Burrell for doing this, it must not have been easy for him.
mikey_dragon- Posts : 15584
Join date : 2015-07-25
Age : 35
Re: Burrell and rugby
Theres an interesting discussion about this on the Falcons forum...im staying well out of it all...
Geordie- Posts : 28849
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
Re: Burrell and rugby
mikey_dragon wrote:I get how racism can creep in, in the form of 'racist banter', I've witnessed it in the past. Good on Burrell for doing this, it must not have been easy for him.
Yeah, you'd imagine the sport is hard enough to excel at let alone when this is happening on top of the challenges everyone faces. The 'banter' sounds brain dead. Disappointing that others saw these things and just let it slide, but can acknowledge that you potentially put your career with teams on the line if you're seen to be stirring the pot; but it allows cultures to develop negatively.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Burrell and rugby
The rfu have banned a former council member, Alex Murphy, from Twickenham after he made the comment 'you reaslise they don't let ******* in the royal box'.
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31374
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: Burrell and rugby
I read that too, and all I could think of was 'what a dope'.No 7&1/2 wrote:The rfu have banned a former council member, Alex Murphy, from Twickenham after he made the comment 'you reaslise they don't let ******* in the royal box'.
doctor_grey- Posts : 12279
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Burrell and rugby
doctor_grey wrote:I read that too, and all I could think of was 'what a dope'.No 7&1/2 wrote:The rfu have banned a former council member, Alex Murphy, from Twickenham after he made the comment 'you reaslise they don't let ******* in the royal box'.
It’s a particularly boneheaded thing to say given who the current Chairman of the RFU is.
It’s good that Murphy has resigned, and appropriate that the RFU has stripped him of his privileges. But this and the findings from the Burrell review are indicative of the work that still has to be done to get discrimination out of rugby at all levels. I suspect it will need to be a generational thing, though: one thing I’ve heard from a number of people on the RFU side is that they find it much harder to get lifelong players and coaches on board with the values they’re trying to instil than they do with parents who’ve come into (or back into) the game to coach their kids. The rugby culture of the 70s, 80s and 90s still lingers on…
Poorfour- Posts : 6406
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: Burrell and rugby
Poorfour wrote:doctor_grey wrote:I read that too, and all I could think of was 'what a dope'.No 7&1/2 wrote:The rfu have banned a former council member, Alex Murphy, from Twickenham after he made the comment 'you reaslise they don't let ******* in the royal box'.
It’s a particularly boneheaded thing to say given who the current Chairman of the RFU is.
It’s good that Murphy has resigned, and appropriate that the RFU has stripped him of his privileges. But this and the findings from the Burrell review are indicative of the work that still has to be done to get discrimination out of rugby at all levels. I suspect it will need to be a generational thing, though: one thing I’ve heard from a number of people on the RFU side is that they find it much harder to get lifelong players and coaches on board with the values they’re trying to instil than they do with parents who’ve come into (or back into) the game to coach their kids. The rugby culture of the 70s, 80s and 90s still lingers on…
100% we struggle with that in our club. Some members can't grasp why we now have a club person of the year which will replace the clubman of the year award.
Oakdene- Posts : 1170
Join date : 2012-06-14
Re: Burrell and rugby
No 7&1/2 wrote:The rfu have banned a former council member, Alex Murphy, from Twickenham after he made the comment 'you reaslise they don't let ******* in the royal box'.
He's had a shocker with that one. I'm not sure what Alex was thinking?
mikey_dragon- Posts : 15584
Join date : 2015-07-25
Age : 35
Re: Burrell and rugby
Oakdene wrote:100% we struggle with that in our club. Some members can't grasp why we now have a club person of the year which will replace the clubman of the year award.
I once won that award, we were a men's rugby team. I can see why they would struggle, 100%.
mikey_dragon- Posts : 15584
Join date : 2015-07-25
Age : 35
Re: Burrell and rugby
mikey_dragon wrote:Oakdene wrote:100% we struggle with that in our club. Some members can't grasp why we now have a club person of the year which will replace the clubman of the year award.
I once won that award, we were a men's rugby team. I can see why they would struggle, 100%.
So you don't have any women that help run the club, or on the committee?
Oakdene- Posts : 1170
Join date : 2012-06-14
Re: Burrell and rugby
Oakdene wrote:mikey_dragon wrote:Oakdene wrote:100% we struggle with that in our club. Some members can't grasp why we now have a club person of the year which will replace the clubman of the year award.
I once won that award, we were a men's rugby team. I can see why they would struggle, 100%.
So you don't have any women that help run the club, or on the committee?
At that age I don't remember any awards for committee members, etc. I recieved it for not missing a training sesson, and for something else or other. Must be a different award. If the club person award of the year is for everyone, including women who help run the show off the field then it makes sense.
POTM replacing MOTM in rugby, that I don't get. I'd also prefer if the women had their own site, social media, etc., as some of us don't want to follow it.
mikey_dragon- Posts : 15584
Join date : 2015-07-25
Age : 35
Re: Burrell and rugby
mikey_dragon wrote:Oakdene wrote:mikey_dragon wrote:Oakdene wrote:100% we struggle with that in our club. Some members can't grasp why we now have a club person of the year which will replace the clubman of the year award.
I once won that award, we were a men's rugby team. I can see why they would struggle, 100%.
So you don't have any women that help run the club, or on the committee?
At that age I don't remember any awards for committee members, etc. I recieved it for not missing a training sesson, and for something else or other. Must be a different award. If the club person award of the year is for everyone, including women who help run the show off the field then it makes sense.
POTM replacing MOTM in rugby, that I don't get. I'd also prefer if the women had their own site, social media, etc., as some of us don't want to follow it.
Ah that's a fair one. Ours is for all round so could be a player or a coach, or someone on the committee who has gone over & above for the club.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the player of the match award either
Oakdene- Posts : 1170
Join date : 2012-06-14
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