Silly Season Transfer Rumours 23/24

First topic message reminder :

I need rumours.....and I need them now!

If it's Henry Thomas then it's good for us to have that option playing in Wales, but Cardiff seem to have more depth at TH - you'll note they've found another mountain (Davies-King) but he is another one who needs to learn how to scrum. They need a LH replacement for Carre and some actual second rows. They're obsessed with playing average players and back-rowers at 2nd row, furthermore they signed another back-row hybrid from Glaws recently (Ben Donnell). No brains behind many of these decisions.

mikey_dragon wrote:Scarlets according to their biggest fan, Steffan, are also signing a pair of Aussies. I’m not sure who, I don’t subscribe but I wondered if anyone had heard anything?

I also wondered if the ‘Thomas’ linked to Cardiff was Henry.

Second row Max Douglas & tighthead prop Archer Holz.

Henry Thomas's issues with Montpellier seemed to start when he switches allegiance. They weren't keen on him disappearing for international windows hence him only getting a medical joker contract for post world cup. Castres have then taken him until the end of the season. He's been a constant presence in the Castres 23 since joining so must be playing well enough.

carpet baboon wrote:But Brantingham, Pepper and Johnson do sound like a decent law firm

Probably a Californian hipster firm which offers a free avocado and tofu scramble in their open-plan reception.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Scarlets according to their biggest fan, Steffan, are also signing a pair of Aussies. I’m not sure who, I don’t subscribe but I wondered if anyone had heard anything?

I also wondered if the ‘Thomas’ linked to Cardiff was Henry.

Second row Max Douglas & tighthead prop Archer Holz.

If they've had regular experience in super rugby then they must be decent enough. A shame to lose Lousi and Fifita though, both extraordinary at times. Any coaching developments? Who will be your prime LH? Mathias looks to really be struggling.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Henry Thomas's issues with Montpellier seemed to start when he switches allegiance. They weren't keen on him disappearing for international windows hence him only getting a medical joker contract for post world cup. Castres have then taken him until the end of the season. He's been a constant presence in the Castres 23 since joining so must be playing well enough.

Yeah that wasn't a good look from Montpellier, after they previously said his contract would be terminated. Good to know that he is somewhere now where he gets more game time.

Hopefully Francis' team go up to the Top 14, we're desperate for him to come back in.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Scarlets according to their biggest fan, Steffan, are also signing a pair of Aussies. I’m not sure who, I don’t subscribe but I wondered if anyone had heard anything?

I also wondered if the ‘Thomas’ linked to Cardiff was Henry.

Second row Max Douglas & tighthead prop Archer Holz.

If they've had regular experience in super rugby then they must be decent enough. A shame to lose Lousi and Fifita though, both extraordinary at times. Any coaching developments? Who will be your prime LH? Mathias looks to really be struggling.

It will be a big shame to lose them but they will be taking up a large chunk of the playing budget. We've also made our well regarded team manager redundant too.

Haven't heard anything on the coaches yet, we're meant to be looking at a LH as I'm expecting both Wyn Jones & Steff THomas to leave.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Scarlets according to their biggest fan, Steffan, are also signing a pair of Aussies. I’m not sure who, I don’t subscribe but I wondered if anyone had heard anything?

I also wondered if the ‘Thomas’ linked to Cardiff was Henry.

Second row Max Douglas & tighthead prop Archer Holz.

If they've had regular experience in super rugby then they must be decent enough. A shame to lose Lousi and Fifita though, both extraordinary at times. Any coaching developments? Who will be your prime LH? Mathias looks to really be struggling.

It will be a big shame to lose them but they will be taking up a large chunk of the playing budget. We've also made our well regarded team manager redundant too.

Haven't heard anything on the coaches yet, we're meant to be looking at a LH as I'm expecting both Wyn Jones & Steff THomas to leave.

Hopefully it would give you some strength in the tight 5, looking good so far. Morgan Jones and Carwyn Tuipolotu not really kicking on as hoped though, Josh McLeod always injured. Taylor is a long-term signing too right?

You need Foxy and Scott off the wage bill too. James and Roberts look very good. Tom Rogers is a poor re-signing though, I've never seen such a poor winger (aside from Luke Morgan) but I think you're good elsewhere in the back 3. There is hope for the future, assuming Peel isn't in the top job.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Scarlets according to their biggest fan, Steffan, are also signing a pair of Aussies. I’m not sure who, I don’t subscribe but I wondered if anyone had heard anything?

I also wondered if the ‘Thomas’ linked to Cardiff was Henry.

Second row Max Douglas & tighthead prop Archer Holz.

If they've had regular experience in super rugby then they must be decent enough. A shame to lose Lousi and Fifita though, both extraordinary at times. Any coaching developments? Who will be your prime LH? Mathias looks to really be struggling.

It will be a big shame to lose them but they will be taking up a large chunk of the playing budget. We've also made our well regarded team manager redundant too.

Haven't heard anything on the coaches yet, we're meant to be looking at a LH as I'm expecting both Wyn Jones & Steff THomas to leave.

Hopefully it would give you some strength in the tight 5, looking good so far. Morgan Jones and Carwyn Tuipolotu not really kicking on as hoped though, Josh McLeod always injured. Taylor is a long-term signing too right?

You need Foxy and Scott off the wage bill too. James and Roberts look very good. Tom Rogers is a poor re-signing though, I've never seen such a poor winger (aside from Luke Morgan) but I think you're good elsewhere in the back 3. There is hope for the future, assuming Peel isn't in the top job.

I think he has stopped developing in terms of size really - at U20's he was bigger than a lot of the players & he was used as a second receiver so was often running at the 10 or 12/

Looking at his build they probably should have converted him into a tighthead prop.

I'm not sure he has the mobility for a modern 8. With his size and weight though he could have had potential at 3.

I see this with young player development all the time in Wales. We just don't seem to put talent in the right places at times.

Welshmushroom wrote:Looking at his build they probably should have converted him into a tighthead prop.

I'm not sure he has the mobility for a modern 8.  With his size and weight though he could have had potential at 3.  

I see this with young player development all the time in Wales.  We just don't seem to put talent in the right places at times.

Prop is probably too technical at this point, hooker seems more likely, he can join a bunch of the other converted back-row players.

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Much truth in the Taniel Tupou to Leinster rumour? Ala'alatoa is off to Clermont.

Would have thought so - they need a tighthead replacement and they look a bit light there now Ala'alatoa is off....

Looks like Montpellier are after him too now...

Welshmushroom wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Much truth in the Taniel Tupou to Leinster rumour? Ala'alatoa is off to Clermont.

Would have thought so - they need a tighthead replacement and they look a bit light there now Ala'alatoa is off....

Looks like Montpellier are after him too now...

Leinster supposedly offered a bit shy of 700K per annum. Significant spending power. I wonder what RG will be on? Aren't Montpellier almost a cert to be relegated? Imagine that might have a bearing on Tupou's decision. Also, imagine that squad in the French 2nd division.

Oyonnax are going down in the Top 14. Montpellier currently in the relegation playoff but within two points of Lyon and Perpignan as well as five points off Clermont. Montpellier has games against Lyon (H), Perpignan (H) and Clermont (A) to play.

Think Montpellier will have more than enough to stay up. If you go by point difference, they should be 11th and that is after being hammered 54-7 by Toulon on the weekend. La Rochelle are in 6th having won one more game. The Top 14 is brutal, such narrow margins.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Much truth in the Taniel Tupou to Leinster rumour? Ala'alatoa is off to Clermont.

Would have thought so - they need a tighthead replacement and they look a bit light there now Ala'alatoa is off....

Looks like Montpellier are after him too now...

Leinster supposedly offered a bit shy of 700K per annum. Significant spending power. I wonder what RG will be on? Aren't Montpellier almost a cert to be relegated? Imagine that might have a bearing on Tupou's decision. Also, imagine that squad in the French 2nd division.

Not what I heard. Leinster's offer from what I heard was 530K Euro.

I'm not sure what they offered RG. That said given his track record the last 3 years anything above 400K Euro would be madness.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Oyonnax are going down in the Top 14. Montpellier currently in the relegation playoff but within two points of Lyon and Perpignan as well as five points off Clermont. Montpellier has games against Lyon (H), Perpignan (H) and Clermont (A) to play.

Think Montpellier will have more than enough to stay up. If you go by point difference, they should be 11th and that is after being hammered 54-7 by Toulon on the weekend. La Rochelle are in 6th having won one more game. The Top 14 is brutal, such narrow margins.

The French set up which allows their spending power is quite significant, it's somewhat a surprise that teams from elsewhere beat them.

I think since the South Africans joined, the Pro14 is quite like that just without the relegation.

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Much truth in the Taniel Tupou to Leinster rumour? Ala'alatoa is off to Clermont.

Would have thought so - they need a tighthead replacement and they look a bit light there now Ala'alatoa is off....

Looks like Montpellier are after him too now...

Leinster supposedly offered a bit shy of 700K per annum. Significant spending power. I wonder what RG will be on? Aren't Montpellier almost a cert to be relegated? Imagine that might have a bearing on Tupou's decision. Also, imagine that squad in the French 2nd division.

Not what I heard.  Leinster's offer from what I heard was 530K Euro.  

They quoted 900K AUD per year in what I read, I looked online but must have looked at a bad conversion site at the time. I've looked again, it's close to 545K per year, still a lot.

Perpignan being linked with Danny Care and Ali Price , didn't Ali Price just move to Edinburgh from Glasgow not that long ago and would he even be interested in a move to France especially if it means being out of the Scotland picture or is that rule only used by RFU/WRU?

Price is just on loan at Edinburgh as he was surplus to requirements at Glasgow. So I could very much see that happening.

No rules around where you play your club rugby with the SRU, so you can play anywhere and play for Scotland. Preferably the England U20s.

Highland Shaun wrote:Perpignan being linked with Danny Care and Ali Price , didn't Ali Price just move to Edinburgh from Glasgow not that long ago and would he even be interested in a move to France especially if it means being out of the Scotland picture or is that rule only used by RFU/WRU?

I wouldn't give a family sized Toblerone for what Price is dishing up at the moment.

I didn't think it warranted a new thread, but I have just seen that Alex Waller is retiring at the end of this season.

To date, 370 appearances for Saints, a club record in the professional era, and I should imagine a prem record for a prop. Holds the premiership record for the most consecutive appearances in the league. A single club player who started in 2009 (A rarity these days), got close to an England cap, he did travel to NZ in 2014 and played against Crusaders and against the Barbarians in 2015.

A good incentive to drive Saints on to win the Prem as his final swan song.

George Carlin wrote:

Highland Shaun wrote:Perpignan being linked with Danny Care and Ali Price , didn't Ali Price just move to Edinburgh from Glasgow not that long ago and would he even be interested in a move to France especially if it means being out of the Scotland picture or is that rule only used by RFU/WRU?

I wouldn't give a family sized Toblerone for what Price is dishing up at the moment.

That's funny

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I didn't think it warranted a new thread, but I have just seen that Alex Waller is retiring at the end of this season.

To date, 370 appearances for Saints, a club record in the professional era, and I should imagine a prem record for a prop. Holds the premiership record for the most consecutive appearances in the league. A single club player who started in 2009 (A rarity these days), got close to an England cap, he did travel to NZ in 2014 and played against Crusaders and against the Barbarians in 2015.

A good incentive to drive Saints on to win the Prem as his final swan song.

He's had a good innings for Saints certainly. 370 appearances is going to take some beating. Saints are pretty well stocked at LH with Waller Jnr covering the two big prospects Iyogen and Haffar.

Ethan Waller follows his brother in announcing his retirement at the end of the season. Odd call as he's only 31 and could have been a useful squad man for Saints for a couple more years.

Saints probably in the hunt for a senior Loosehead for next season unless a couple of the youngsters step up. They do have a lot of 20ish LH in the squad

Haffars averaged about 35 mins a game this season for Saints...whats Iyogen been doing ? Is he coming back from injury?

I believe Iyogen has been injured. Haffar looks to have the makings of a prop that's both strong in the scrum and a good ball carrier. Very much in the Genge/Obano mould of prop.

As WPI says Saints will be after a senior LH. They were linked with Tom West a month or so back. Not sure he'd really fit with what Saints normally go for up front.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I believe Iyogen has been injured. Haffar looks to have the makings of a prop that's both strong in the scrum and a good ball carrier. Very much in the Genge/Obano mould of prop.

As WPI says Saints will be after a senior LH. They were linked with Tom West a month or so back. Not sure he'd really fit with what Saints normally go for up front.

Yeah i agree Sam, been having a little look at hm and he looks a real strong all round prop. Be good to see what his ceiling will be...

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I believe Iyogen has been injured. Haffar looks to have the makings of a prop that's both strong in the scrum and a good ball carrier. Very much in the Genge/Obano mould of prop.

As WPI says Saints will be after a senior LH. They were linked with Tom West a month or so back. Not sure he'd really fit with what Saints normally go for up front.

Yeah i agree Sam, been having a little look at hm and he looks a real strong all round prop. Be good to see what his ceiling will be...

The options coming through at LH are pretty awesome. Genge, Marler and Obano is a good three to start with then Baxter, Haffar and Brantingham are coming up behind them with some of the under 20s lads looking good.

Credit to the England selection with Haffar. When he was picked for the RFU's impeccably organised "maybe an A-team game, but not really an A-team game, that might tie players, but probably didn't tie players" match against Portugal's 7th team ahead of Brantingham, I didn't really get it. Haffar looks like a proper athlete though. That isn't everything, but being a unit helps in a sport that involves giants running into each other a few hundred times a match.

It's why I really like the tight five camps that RFU have started running for talented age grade players. The academy coaching is largely excellent at U18s, but the academies have had a tendency to produce very technically strong tight five players, who simply don't end up big or strong enough to excel at the higher levels. Being athletic is nothing if you can't scrummage, tackle, carry, last a half of rugby, etc. I really like that tactic of trying to pick out athletes at a young age and work with them on the details early though.

Back when Furlong broke through, he felt notable for his size as well as his skills and technical ability. He was noticeably big even for a prop. With how things have trended, Furlong is just prop sized now. An excellent prop still of course.

Guys like Uini Antonio and Tamaiti Williams are 2 or 3 stone heavier than Andy Sheridan, yet they keep up with the France and NZ game plans respectively.

As defences got better, many attacks shifted towards needing at least 2 playmakers, if not more, to be effective. Therefore, 12 and fullback more and more commonly saw second playmakers who are near to a FHs ability in those skills. I do wonder if giant props who can therefore get over gain line might end up being similar. Defences are so good that teams need more carriers who make yards after contact to manufacture quick ball. Just throwing the ball to a Billy Vunipola or Toby Faletau no longer works as well as the improved defences nullify them, so you need multiple big ball carriers. What helps getting over the gain line against a strong fringe defence? Being f***ing huge. Where can we fit more players who are f***ing huge into the team? Prop.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I believe Iyogen has been injured. Haffar looks to have the makings of a prop that's both strong in the scrum and a good ball carrier. Very much in the Genge/Obano mould of prop.

As WPI says Saints will be after a senior LH. They were linked with Tom West a month or so back. Not sure he'd really fit with what Saints normally go for up front.

Yeah i agree Sam, been having a little look at hm and he looks a real strong all round prop. Be good to see what his ceiling will be...

The options coming through at LH are pretty awesome. Genge, Marler and Obano is a good three to start with then Baxter, Haffar and Brantingham are coming up behind them with some of the under 20s lads looking good.

Yeah i agree...we could be in very good health. I actually think we could be in tighthead aswell..but it's a bit further away....there's about 4/5 all on the horizon hopefully a couple will really push on...

king_carlos wrote:Credit to the England selection with Haffar. When he was picked for the RFU's impeccably organised "maybe an A-team game, but not really an A-team game, that might tie players, but probably didn't tie players" match against Portugal's 7th team ahead of Brantingham, I didn't really get it. Haffar looks like a proper athlete though. That isn't everything, but being a unit helps in a sport that involves giants running into each other a few hundred times a match.

It's why I really like the tight five camps that RFU have started running for talented age grade players. The academy coaching is largely excellent at U18s, but the academies have had a tendency to produce very technically strong tight five players, who simply don't end up big or strong enough to excel at the higher levels. Being athletic is nothing if you can't scrummage, tackle, carry, last a half of rugby, etc. I really like that tactic of trying to pick out athletes at a young age and work with them on the details early though.

Back when Furlong broke through, he felt notable for his size as well as his skills and technical ability. He was noticeably big even for a prop. With how things have trended, Furlong is just prop sized now. An excellent prop still of course.

Guys like Uini Antonio and Tamaiti Williams are 2 or 3 stone heavier than Andy Sheridan, yet they keep up with the France and NZ game plans respectively.

As defences got better, many attacks shifted towards needing at least 2 playmakers, if not more, to be effective. Therefore, 12 and fullback more and more commonly saw second playmakers who are near to a FHs ability in those skills. I do wonder if giant props who can therefore get over gain line might end up being similar. Defences are so good that teams need more carriers who make yards after contact to manufacture quick ball. Just throwing the ball to a Billy Vunipola or Toby Faletau no longer works as well as the improved defences nullify them, so you need multiple big ball carriers. What helps getting over the gain line against a strong fringe defence? Being f***ing huge. Where can we fit more players who are f***ing huge into the team? Prop.

With the speed and physicality of modern rugby you can't really carry passengers anymore. As you say we're moving towards the best teams having legitimate ball carries in positions 1 to 8. The Boks might carry a prop who's more technical scrum and clearout orientated but Ireland, NZ and France are turning out with some ferocious packs.

It's an arms race. The tight five camps are a great ideal. Let's work out early who's got the ceiling to reach the required heights and then develop their technique. Often we see the smaller props come through with much better technical skills as the bigger guys get by with being big which suddenly turns messy when they come up against a genetic freak like Atonio who's not only massive but has also spent years scrummaging against the world's best.

Sinckler and Ludlum off to Toulon next season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68686907

Personally I don't think Sinckler being unavailable is much of a blow given his form last few years. Ludlum I always rated but backrow is at least an area of strength for England.

Luds is a massive blow for Saints with Lawes also off, on the heels of Ribbans and Salakaia-Loto away last season. That's a ton of physicality as the Prem currently goes.

Sinckler is a completely different player since the back injury. He went from a great carrier to a solid scrummager with a high tackle count. It's a real shame.

There's been a lot of talent leaving the Prem across the last two seasons though. Which really isn't good. Both top end internationals - Farrell, Wiese, Estherhuizen, Lawes, Piutau, Radrada, etc - but also very good Premiership players who are a bit below that. Guys like Simmonds, Billy V and Ribbans aren't be top internationals - at least anymore in Billy's case. Having players such as that playing week in, week out does keep the standard of the average Prem game up though. Which is what's actually vital to developing players. A few very good games interspersed with lots of diet-Premiership or Championship+ standard games does the league no favours. I'd say a fair few Prem squads are going to be weaker still for 2024/25. That doesn't mean they are terrible. Taking Saints in the positions they've lost those players:

4.Coles 5.Moon 6.Graham 7.Pearson 8.Augustus
19.Munga 20.Scott-Young

All players I rate. Pearson I really rate, think could be a strong international as his conditioning improves. Whilst Sam Graham usually impresses me. It just doesn't have the same physicality and quality of Lawes, Ludlam and Ribbans though. It also means that when injuries inevitably hit, the replacements will be that step below the above players. As opposed to being a step below Lawes and Ludlam.

The same for Tigers without Wiese. The same for Sarries losing Farrell. Quins with Esterhuizen.

Cobus Wiese is a great example of key player just below that standard as well. Not an international, he isn't Lood de Jager, but he is a quality, consistent and physical lock who's played a ton of minutes for Sale each season. Players like that drag the average quality of games up across a season, even if he may not be a starter for Leinster or La Rochelle.

I've had concerns about the Prem's declining quality for a while and it isn't going away from announced (or rumoured) leavers and joiners.

I'm looking at things purely from an England perspective. Clubs can always recruit any player(within salary cap of course, ahem) but England need the players in English clubs.

I don't think quality is declining, it's just different. Less overseas players and/or Eng players going abroad means more opportunities for those who remain hence more likely to see new players making break into England team which is good in long term.

I'm a glass half full person so think we should look at opportunities any new situation presents rather than bemoan what went before.

There's still 10 Pro clubs though. Chances for English players are abundant with the experienced English players and overseas starters. The issue is the week to week quality they are exposed to in recent years. If we expose more academy grads to a lower standard comp then we'll just get a higher number of England qualified players not developing to the level you want before making their debut. Which doesn't benefit England at all, as the gulf between club and international is even greater.

The only way that a lot of the outgoing top level players doesn't lead to a decline in quality is if they're replaced with the same incoming quality. Which doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.

Russ Petty has spotted that 10 of England's 2023 World Cup squad will be playing in France next season.

Sinckler, Lawes, Ribbans, Ludlam, Jack Willis, Billy Vunipola, Farrell, Marchant, Tuilagi and Arundell

Rugby Fan wrote:Russ Petty has spotted that 10 of England's 2023 World Cup squad will be playing in France next season.

Sinckler, Lawes, Ribbans, Ludlam, Jack Willis, Billy Vunipola, Farrell, Marchant, Tuilagi and Arundell

Of which Lawes would make the 23 if we picked it tomorrow. I'd like to see Marchant, Willis and Arundell come back into the Prem in the next year or two but the rest are cashing in as are past their best.

Be interesting to see what happens with the salary cap for next year in England. Is supposed to be going up to 6million+ but apparently the government have said that because of this the loans need to start to be repaid. I believe the PRL is trying to convince the clubs to keep it at 5 million again next season so they have a valid argument to postpone the loans repayments to a later date.

Side question did the 88 million go to PRL to distribute or did they go to each club directly. I wonder if all of it is still repayable as 2 clubs went bust?

Phil Cokanasiga to Ospreys.

mikey_dragon wrote:Phil Cokanasiga to Ospreys.

Other Tigers fans disagree, but I'm really not sure he's that good. I was excited when he first joined Tigers, particularly after some promise in preseason. He's pretty poor positionally in defence, without a particular strength in contact to even it out. I've seen him drop a fair few passes under little pressure too. I'm far from convinced.

That said, some of his better showings have been the last few weeks. Tigers have been abject since the midseason preseason though. So it's not taken a high bar to look OK. I'd be more than happy with Tigers losing Cokanasiga and putting the minutes towards Joe Woodward, who hasn't debuted in the Prem yet.

Rugby Fan wrote:Russ Petty has spotted that 10 of England's 2023 World Cup squad will be playing in France next season.

Sinckler, Lawes, Ribbans, Ludlam, Jack Willis, Billy Vunipola, Farrell, Marchant, Tuilagi and Arundell

Of those only Marchant and Arundell have an England future. Willis? Some love him and he is a good player but not exceptional in the one area of strength England really have.

Welshmushroom wrote:Side question did the 88 million go to PRL to distribute or did they go to each club directly.  I wonder if all of it is still repayable as 2 clubs went bust?

Loans were paid to the clubs direct. Clubs took out different sized loans and terms depending on their needs.

Gloucester are an interesting (and concerning) example. They are the biggest borrowers from the DCMS. It's structured so that they pay nothing back until September 2025 but then they pay the accrued interest and their first normal repayment in a lump sum. Which will be basically £1m. Then they will pay back £350k every 6 months for 15 years.

On the surface Glaws recent accounts weren't awful reading. A smaller loss than the previous year at approximately £400k and a 6.6% increase in turnover. Within that report was a line about needing new funding by September 2025 though. Compared to losses of £3m for Scarlets or £2m for the O's, their accounts make fanciful reading. There's challenges ahead though. Whilst the basic challenges of the times mean that turnover increase barely keeps up with inflation.

Tigers are paying back something like £62k/month for 10 years.

There is certainly an argument that covid may have killed more than 3 clubs, it's just taking time to set in.

Wasps, LI and Wuss owed the government around £50m cumulatively between loans and unpaid tax bills. That's to be sorted out by the administrators appointed in each case, the selling of assets, etc though. Nothing to do with the other clubs.

mikey_dragon wrote:Phil Cokanasiga to Ospreys.

Thought he was a 12 generally. Not sure why Ospreys need another one there. If anything they need a genuine 13. They already have Watkins and Williams there. Granted I think Watkins could do with being offloaded. He's not kicked on as much as his early potential was.

Cokanasiga was a 12 with LI but Tigers seem to have been on a project of turning him into a 13. He looks pretty lost there defensively from what I've seen though.

king_carlos wrote:
Gloucester are an interesting (and concerning) example. They are the biggest borrowers from the DCMS. It's structured so that they pay nothing back until September 2025 but then they pay the accrued interest and their first normal repayment in a lump sum. Which will be basically £1m. Then they will pay back £350k every 6 months for 15 years.

That can't be correct. Gloucester took a 15 million loan from DCMS according to reports. Even without interest. Lets say they pay 1 million and only have 14 million over 15 years. They would need to make at least two 6 monthly payments of 466K just to service the debt.

Rowe mentioned the loans were not that good either but they had no choice as no one would give them any money for these sums. So it's safe to say Gloucester will have a fairly hefty lump on top just for interest.

As far as I am aware DCMS is pressing to put forward the 2025 payment dates as the PRL are increasing salary caps. My understanding is they want the clubs to start paying back this year which is why the PRL is trying to get the clubs together to freeze the salary cap next year.

I thought Glaws loan was just over £11.2m?

king_carlos wrote:Cokanasiga was a 12 with LI but Tigers seem to have been on a project of turning him into a 13. He looks pretty lost there defensively from what I've seen though.

Hopefully he’s a better defender than Alex Cuthbert though, he still can’t defend. Ospreys need someone fast and who’s a good finisher, and likely to be available on international weekends. It could work.