Silly Season Transfer Rumours 23/24

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I need rumours.....and I need them now!

mikey_dragon wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Cokanasiga was a 12 with LI but Tigers seem to have been on a project of turning him into a 13. He looks pretty lost there defensively from what I've seen though.

Hopefully he’s a better defender than Alex Cuthbert though, he still can’t defend. Ospreys need someone fast and who’s a good finisher, and likely to be available on international weekends. It could work.

Cokanasiga has been abject at 13. His better showings recently have been at 12. He's got a step and acceleration to create a gap and go through. Physicality is lacking, defensively he's poor both in terms of positioning and stopping power. There's a good player in there somewhere but I think we'd have been better trying to convert him to being a winger.

Joe Woodward is having a good season on loan at Notts having looked good for the under 20s last season. Good skillset to the point he played 10 at times at academy level. Tackle technique is good to the point he hits above his weight. Some nice footwork and a bit of pace. He's a safer and cheaper bet for Tigers.

Oh he’s a centre, my mistake. Ospreys have lacked creativity there for years - Watkin can’t do much and Williams is a crashball but can be inconsistent. When available they’ve put Morris and Boshoff at 13, but I suspect they’re back to Saracens and Cheetahs.
If Phil can play wing it would be helpful for them, certainly what they don’t need is another revolving door in the backline.

Kitschoff back to Stormers.....

Paul Hill leaving Northampton to join Edinburgh as the replacement for WP Nel.

Jamie Hill leaves Cardiff to take a job in Australia. Not sure with which club yet though.

Sam Whitelock is retiring putting an end to rumors he is heading back to New Zealand for another stint of super rugby.

Welshmushroom wrote:Kitschoff back to Stormers.....

Paul Hill leaving Northampton to join Edinburgh as the replacement for WP Nel.  

Jamie Hill leaves Cardiff to take a job in Australia.  Not sure with which club yet though.

Sam Whitelock is retiring putting an end to rumors he is heading back to New Zealand for another stint of super rugby.

Saints are losing a lot of senior props, perhaps they have looked at the youngsters and thought that their time is limited, best to go now before they are relegated to squad players. We have Davison and Millar-Mills, but then we are into Ed Prowse and possibly Beltus Nonleh who has the look and build, but is still learning. Both around 123 kg so we won't be losing any weight in the front row.

Fergus Burke to Saracens from Crusaders on a long term deal. English qualified too.

Top signing by McCall as you'd expect. Louie Johnson is shrewd work too - sorry Geordie. They were never going to replace what Farrell offers like-for-like, but Burke is a big talent and Johnson a significant upgrade on Vunipola from what I've seen of both. That improvement at second choice should allow them to not use Goode at 10, manage his minutes at 15 with Parton taking on more.

I was thinking that Lozowski might just shift to 10, then Tompkins, Cinti and Hartley would share most the centre minutes with Daly able to cover 13. With those two coming in he should be able to just keep thriving at 13 in their systems that suit Lozowski so well.

With the rumours of May potentially joining and Maitland potentially retiring, I think their backs are looking like below:

9.van Zyl, Simpson
10.Burke, Johnson
11.Lewington, Maitland/May
12.Tompkins, Hartley
13.Lozowski, Cinti
14.Daly, Segun
15.Goode, Parton

(It's less clear whether squad backs such as Hallett and Harris are staying, if they aren't then that level player are often later announcements for Prem clubs)

That group is typical McCall recruitment since the cap fallout and subsequent adjustment. Lower on number but high on quality and versatility.

I'll be intrigued by what they do at 9. It's clearly the position they made massive savings when they came back to the Prem. They went from Wigglesworth and Spencer to the likes of Aled Davies, van Zyl, Simpson and Ruben de Haas. All the 9s in their squad probably earning less than individuals before. They also adjusted their game plan, put less pressure for tactical play on the SH. With Farrell leaving, the cap going back up, I wonder if they'll try to bring a starting 9 in again? They've got Charlie Bracken coming through too.

Maine man wrote:Fergus Burke to Saracens from Crusaders on a long term deal. English qualified too.

Also SQ from what we beleive.

The SRU have also had conversations with him and at one time a move to Glasgow was under discussion.

[quote="king_carlos"]Top signing by McCall as you'd expect. Louie Johnson is shrewd work too - sorry Geordie. They were never going to replace what Farrell offers like-for-like, but Burke is a big talent and Johnson a significant upgrade on Vunipola/quote]

Meh...Saracens have another hater now.

Ps Apparently the rumours are Guy Pepper signed for Bath under academy rules so they could get under the salary cap rules.. really hope that's not true.

AFAIK the only way that Pepper could sign as an academy player is if he's going to be on less than £50k at Bath and has never been on more than £50k at Falcons. I'd be surprised if the latter were true. I'd be astonished if the former were true.

I could believe the former KC....we pay the taxi to work and a kit kat at the moment...

The rumour is Bath have offered him a one year academy contract and then a two year senior contract so that the last two years are then a significant increase in pay but next year is actually less than what Falcons offered.

This might be old news but I see Lozwski has said the Italians have been on to him a few times as he has an Italian grandmother...and hes interested. He could swap immediately.

And another odd one...James Grayson playing in Japan and said his interested in playing for Japan...

Geordie wrote:This might be old news but I see Lozwski has said the Italians have been on to him a few times as he has an Italian grandmother...and hes interested. He could swap immediately.

And another odd one...James Grayson playing in Japan and said his interested in playing for Japan...

Every overseas players in Japan gets sounded out about potential for the national side. Unless he gets on a fast track for naturalization, Grayson won't be eligible for the next World Cup though, so that would have to be a long-term project.

Lozowski has never sounded that enthusiastic about Italy over England. His connection is through his grandmother, and he doesn't speak Italian, or have any close family over there. He did say he wouldn't rule it out, if England didn't come calling again.

Well I don't see much chance of England coming calling for Lozowski again..that ship has well sailed.

Lozowski is 30 as well. It's time to crap or get off the pot lad. He'd be a useful option for Italy in the 22 shirt as he can cover most of the backline and kick for goal. Not sure he'd start considering how well the 10/12/13 combination was working at the end of the 6N.

Yeah that centre looks a very good prospect ..powerful lad...

Adding quality depth is important to Italy...

I didn't read any decent press reports about it but can someone explain why Tigers popped the salary cap again? They must have Nicholas Cage as their accountant.

George Carlin wrote:I didn't read any decent press reports about it but can someone explain why Tigers popped the salary cap again? They must have Nicholas Cage as their accountant.

It's going back several years. The old board fecked around with the image right rules and tried to be clever got caught out. Somehow this £47k they've found was missed by the auditors the first time round.

I feel somewhat sorry for Andrea Pinchen the CEO who for a second time is clearing up the mess left by the old CEO who by all accounts was a bit of an arrogant Del Boy type. Andrea being the one who picked the club up in a mess, steered it through the COVID nightmare and oversaw Borthwick's rebuild.

Geordie wrote:Yeah that centre looks a very good prospect ..powerful lad...

Adding quality depth is important to Italy...

Meoncello is only 19/20 he should be a staple of that Italian midfield for a long time yet. he worked well with Brex. Odogwu once over injury is one that could come back in. Frederico Mori is a decent player and still young and could be the long term successor to Brex.

Lozowski being able to cover most of the backline and inject the attitude from a winning environment could be beneficial.

So Louis Johnson confirmed to Saracens ..the falcons premiership feeder club continues...

Need to start demanding big transfer fees..

Phil Cokasaniga off to Ospreys in the summer...

Welsh teams' transfers to take place next season are as follows, but there should be more to come;

Ospreys

In: Phil Cokanasiga (Tigers), Stef Thomas, Kieran Hardy (Scarlets), Will Greatbanks (Soyaux Charente).
Out: Nicky Smith (Tigers), George North (Provence). Tipuric could be heading for the exit door too.

Scarlets

In: Marnus van der Merwe (Cheetahs), Archer Holz is 50/50 (Waratahs), Max Douglas (Yokohama Canon Eagles), Alec Hepburn (Exeter).
Out: Stef Thomas, Kieran Hardy (Ospreys), Wyn Jones (?). Sam Lousi, Vaea Fifita, Alex Craig, Teddy Leatherbarrow rumoured to be exiting.

Cardiff

In: Callum Sheedy (Bristol).
Out: Tomos Williams (Glaws), Rhys Carre (Saracens). Grady rumoured to be exiting, probably another 50/50.

Dragons

In:
Out: Taine Basham heavily linked to Scarlets for a little while.

Seeing a lot of players linked to Scarlets now so thought I’d add another comment. Jack Dunne, Ruan Smith, JP Smith, Ruan Dreyer. Big rebuild going on if half of these are true, they desperately need some new coaches though. Dragons need to be doing the same.

Tipuric was on a 400K salary with the Ospreys on his last deal. As good as he is I can't see him getting that on his next deal. Given his age as well I could see him retiring as well potentially after this season.

I still think the Hardy signing is a bit tough on Morgan-Williams. He has been pretty good for them this year I thought and he has looked better now that he is getting regular game time.

I'm guessing Hardy hasn't come to be 2nd string.

Welshmushroom wrote:I still think the Hardy signing is a bit tough on Morgan-Williams.  He has been pretty good for them this year I thought and he has looked better now that he is getting regular game time.

I'm guessing Hardy hasn't come to be 2nd string.

There is no Ospreys 9 to stand out, but the three I've seen this season have shown good potential; Morgan-Williams, Cam Jones, Luke Davies. They should have looked for an experienced NWQ. I don't think Hardy is better than any of them, he is a shocking player.

It would make sense to let go of Tips, a difficult one as he's a great player to have around some of the young players. They have Jac Morgan and Harri Deaves though.

Speaking of players out of Contract - Cardiff have Turnbull and Halaholo out of contract. I'm guessing Halaholo will look for any better paying deal and move from Cardiff and Turnbull must surely be retiring this year. Grady is out of a deal too but talks about him staying....

Dragons have Brown & Arhip out of contract but there must be others that must be coming out of deals. Basham is being linked with Scarlets but if our salary cap is coming down from 5 to 4.5 million I'm guessing we will be releasing a fair few players in the summer. Heard anything else on out of contract players Mikey?

Welshmushroom wrote:Tipuric was on a 400K salary with the Ospreys on his last deal.  As good as he is I can't see him getting that on his next deal.  Given his age as well I could see him retiring as well potentially after this season.

So he's (i) old, (ii) expensive and (iii) a former British Lion - all key prerequisites for a French side to come knocking.

Welshmushroom wrote:Speaking of players out of Contract - Cardiff have Turnbull and Halaholo out of contract.  I'm guessing Halaholo will look for any better paying deal and move from Cardiff and Turnbull must surely be retiring this year.  Grady is out of a deal too but talks about him staying....

Dragons have Brown & Arhip out of contract but there must be others that must be coming out of deals.  Basham is being linked with Scarlets but if our salary cap is coming down from 5 to 4.5 million I'm guessing we will be releasing a fair few players in the summer.  Heard anything else on out of contract players Mikey?

I think Grady is their priority, the others will surely be let go including Lee-Lo. I can picture them trying to keep Max Clarke permanently though, thanks Dai.

Nope, haven't heard a thing apart from the obvious. Dragons don't seem to be good with contracting, or they are good at it but are especially good at keeping it secret. We need a better 10 and 12.

I think we will actually sign Arhip.

i see Exeter have signed Ethan Roots brother Jimmy Roots, 24, a tighthead prop..."who likes to run in to things hard in attack and defence."

Hes eligible for England due to English Father.

Geordie wrote:i see Exeter have signed Ethan Roots brother Jimmy Roots, 24, a tighthead prop..."who likes to run in to things hard in attack and defence."

Hes eligible for England due to English Father.

Odd they've signed another tighthead with Painter, Street and Ioseffa-Scott all on the books already, that's a lot of depth. Shickerling is leaving but he's barely played this season and no one's noticed. A loosehead would have been more key given Hepburn is leaving and Sio isn't getting any younger.

Might Marcus Street be released? He looked very talented when he first broke through at Chiefs but he's struggled to get stay on the pitch for three seasons now. It might be a good moment for a change for both parties.

king_carlos wrote:Might Marcus Street be released? He looked very talented when he first broke through at Chiefs but he's struggled to get stay on the pitch for three seasons now. It might be a good moment for a change for both parties.

Maybe with Shickerling off he can get up the pecking order a bit and signing a cheap Championship tighthead as replacement sorts the squad depth.

Street is on the bench for the game this weekend.

Leicester Tigers 2023/2024 Farewells

Phil Cokanasiga, Tiger #2381

Nic Dolly, Tiger #2348

Guy Porter, Tiger #2330

Joe Powell, Tiger #2407

Dan Richardson, Tiger #2359

Matt Scott, Tiger #2325

Jasper Wiese, Tiger #2339

Mike Williams, Tiger #2235

Ben Woollett, Tiger #2413

Francois van Wyk, Tiger #2350

Where's Dolly going?

I've heard back to Oz for Dolly. He'll qualify for Australia again later this year.

Same rumours around Porter heading back home but for personal reasons. It's why I heard that Potter moved home too. He just missed the Oz lifestyle. Which is pretty attractive to someone in their twenties with a bit of disposable income for obvious reasons.

If both head back home then it's likely moves that were out of Tigers hands. If they move within the Prem, then I'll be frustrated. It depends on other signings though of course.

If Dolly leaving frees up cap to help sign a massive prop and lock/back row who can carry, then I can live with it. If we still have a similar lack of physicality below the first team pack next season and we lose a player with Dolly's potential, then I'll be pretty frustrated.

Cabous Eloff was rumoured to be in talks with Tigers. That would be good work in the front row. He covers LH and TH, is massive and carries hard. Tigers have genuinely had one ball carrier, Montoya, in the front row since Genge and Leatigaga left. Which is pish.

The pack has lacked physicality at many points this season whilst having Wiese in the squad. With Wiese going, they desperately need to add ball carriers. I'm trying to reserve judgement until the end of the season and recruitment is done for next year but McKellar isn't blowing my skirt up.

king_carlos wrote:I've heard back to Oz for Dolly. He'll qualify for Australia again later this year.

Same rumours around Porter heading back home but for personal reasons. It's why I heard that Potter moved home too. He just missed the Oz lifestyle. Which is pretty attractive to someone in their twenties with a bit of disposable income for obvious reasons.

If both head back home then it's likely moves that were out of Tigers hands. If they move within the Prem, then I'll be frustrated. It depends on other signings though of course.

If Dolly leaving frees up cap to help sign a massive prop and lock/back row who can carry, then I can live with it. If we still have a similar lack of physicality below the first team pack next season and we lose a player with Dolly's potential, then I'll be pretty frustrated.

Cabous Eloff was rumoured to be in talks with Tigers. That would be good work in the front row. He covers LH and TH, is massive and carries hard. Tigers have genuinely had one ball carrier, Montoya, in the front row since Genge and Leatigaga left. Which is pish.

The pack has lacked physicality at many points this season whilst having Wiese in the squad. With Wiese going, they desperately need to add ball carriers. I'm trying to reserve judgement until the end of the season and recruitment is done for next year but McKellar isn't blowing my skirt up.

Agreed though realistically it isn't McKellar doing the recruitment. So far the recruitment has been ok.

van Wyk out/Smith in - huge step up on quality at LH
Scott out/ Perese in - good like for like replacement for the hard running but good hands centre
Weise out/Beets in - could be good long term but it's a hard drop off immediately

With Richardson, Cokanasiga, Dolly, Carter, Atkinson and Richardson due for replacement that should be a nice chunk of change with only two or three additions needed.

As you Eloff would be an ideal prop replacement as he plays both sides and carries hard.

Add a centre/wing plus a lock/backrow both of which that carry hard and add some physicality and we'll be in a good position. If we can keep Martin, Chessum and Henderson available for more of the season that will help the physicality of the pack.

McKellar will be heavily involved in recruitment and a head coach usually has final say. With Wilks and James Wade taking on the paperwork and leg work behind that.

It's more the performance of this seasons squad that hasn't convinced me. I think it's a good squad, albeit short of ball carriers in the pack below the first choices. There's been some absolute rubbish considering the players available. There's mitigation like it being his first season, a RWC year and no attack coach. At the end of the day though, there was more mitigation with Wigglesworth getting a hospital pass early last year and I felt that a slightly worse squad the season before improved more under WW, in a shorter period of time. Tigers have just come out of a midseason preseason looking dismal. I struggle to see that being much other than coaching. I hope McKellar proves me wrong, but currently it looks like a game plan that doesn't suit the personnel, which isn't being well executed.

The most glaring issue with the squad this season is that lack of carriers and top end physicality. The starting pack is fine. Wiese, Montoya and Martin as primary carriers, backed up by Chess and Hanro. That's grand. The fall off in that regard to second choices is stark though. That's with Wiese here. The fact we're losing Wiese but there isn't so much as a murmur about a potential signing at lock or back row who can make yards after contact is a mahooosive worry for me. It's our biggest weakness and it's currently getting weaker.

1.Smith 2.Montoya 3.Cole 4.Martin 5.Chessum 6.Hatherell 7.Reffell 8.Hanro

That's bare bones ball carrying for a full strength pack. It's basically relying on Montoya, Martin and Chess being fit and playing 80 minutes every time they face tough opposition.

1.Cronin 2.Clare 3.Heyes 4.Wells 5.Henderson 6.Rogerson 7.Ilione 8.Cracknell

That's non existent in terms of ball carrying. Ball carriers are critically endangered. Some 80-year-old turtles in an animal sanctuary who can't reproduce levels of ball carrying. No ball carriers seen in the wild for a couple of decades. Nature documentaries could end with a sad string arrangement and a slightly broken voice over about ball carriers nearly being gone whilst showing footage of that pack trying to get over the gain line.

1.Whitcombe 2.Vanes/FTT 3.Hurd 4.L Chessum 5.T Manz? 6.Carnduff 7.J Manz 8.Beets

Beets is very talented but a project, he hasn't made his pro debut and isn't even featuring for the Bulls 2nd/3rd team as they try to throw a quarter-final. After that, Whitcombe has some talent when it comes to carrying off 9 but he hardly stands out there.

I'm trying to wait till the end of the season and recruitment being confirmed but I'm not feeling hugely positive thus far.

We certainly do need some more ball carrying options. A better attack coach will assist getting more out of what we've got though. Currently we run out best ball carriers into double tackles far to often, you look at Saints who don't have stronger ball carriers than we do but an infinitely better attack. If you've got plays or should I say interplay that allow your best carriers to be one on one with defenders or better yet against soft shoulders then suddenly the impact is far greater. I do worry that the skill levels of our forwards isn't good enough to allow for that though and Dolly is one of those that could have helped with that, he and Montoya have greats skills for a front row forward.

Well according to Fissler (so take withba pinch of salt) Diamond is renewing Connons contract and look9ng for a centre and a lock.

If there's something in it..i wonder if the two Argentinean centres are away as part of the clear put.

Western Force announced Dolly earlier, then quickly took it down. So that's a done deal it seems. He should be in with a decent chance of Oz caps if he can stay fit and find his previous best. Australia aren't stacked at hooker.

Porter is rumoured to be heading there too. Which would reunite him with his Tigers roommate and Sydney Uni teammate Harry Potter. Two proper moneyball signings for Tigers. They were brought in as complete unknowns by Sydney Uni coach Rob Taylor when he joined Tigers as attack coach. Taylor departed rapidly due to personal/travel reasons around covid. He left a decent legacy with Potter and Porter though. They will have been insane value in those early days and were critical parts of the Prem winning team. I have a feeling Porter's best position might be wing in a Jack Nowell type role. I actually rate him higher at 12 than 13, despite outside centre being his most regular position in pro games. I don't think he quite has the defensive leadership at 13, whilst his carrying seemed to have more impact at 12.

Fissler's needing to produce more content now he's with Rugby Pass. It's getting even more hit and miss. When at TRP, he used to like to drop a ton of different rumours without definitive wording. Then if one was about to come off he'd big it up to the maximum. Drop a million breadcrumbs. It was fairly rare that he'd use definitive wording such as "signed" or "expected to be announced next week", then be wrong. He'd increasingly throw s**t at the wall and anoint himself a genius when something stuck though. Now that he's producing more stuff, he's going even further in that direction. I think he linked Spink with 6 clubs but will claim to have nailed it as Sarries were one - albeit a later one that he linked IIRC. He got Perese to Tigers first, but then published that Quins had swooped in to stop it. That of course will also be claimed as a win as he said Tigers at some point. You need to read his wording around the names and clubs pretty carefully to ascertain anything from his pieces. He knows that many just see the names and clubs though, then he plays on that hard. RugbyPass are pretty driven by metrics around engagement from what I know, so I'd presume Fissler's stuff does what they want by boosting clicks.

I think Fissler being taken as any sort of serious journalist disappeared a good while ago. And he clearly doesn't have the kind of "inside" info he would like us to believe

I adore the leak Fissler had at Tigers that dried up. Apparently Tigers used to bring potential recruits for a tour of the ground and training facilities, meet the players, etc then they'd pop for a coffee at Costa (yep, f***ing Costa) near Oval Park to discuss things. A Costa employee there was a rugby fan, would just ring Fissler when someone new showed up for a coffee with a Tigers employee. So village.

king_carlos wrote:I adore the leak Fissler had at Tigers that dried up. Apparently Tigers used to bring potential recruits for a tour of the ground and training facilities, meet the players, etc then they'd pop for a coffee at Costa (yep, f***ing Costa) near Oval Park to discuss things. A Costa employee there was a rugby fan, would just ring Fissler when someone new showed up for a coffee with a Tigers employee. So village.

It's funny that end of town. The whole Dom Barrow leaving after a bust up was broken because he had an animated conversation with his agent at Waitrose Oadby and a Tigers fan overheard and reported it.

Falcons have signed Edinburgh prop Luan De Bruin on a two year deal.
Can play both sides but is signed predominantly as a loosehead.

IS this Diamond starting to toughen up the pack? He played for Tigers for a season in 202 whats your thoughts on him.

https://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/luan-de-bruin-to-join-newcastle-falcons/

He was decent for a short spell at Tigers. His one display of complete scrum dominance did come at tighthead. Iirc he was a regular in the 23. Up north his time appears to have been blighted by injury. Keep him fit and he'll definitely add something to your front row resources.

Yeah thats what the Scots gents have said....sicknote...meh

In the match day squad for 17 games in his one Tigers season.

For Edinburgh appearances in the 23;
21/22 - 8
22/23 - 14
23/24 - 4 so far.

Keep him fit you'll be grand