Scotland - The Generic Moaning Thread 2024

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Tonga
Sunday, September 24
Stade de Nice - 4.45pm kick-off.

Scotland v Romania
Saturday, September 30
Stade Pierre-Mauroy, Lille - 8pm kick-off

Scotland v Paddy Cousins
Saturday, October 7
Stade de France - 8pm kick-off

***

The 20 teams are divided into four groups as follows:

Pool A – New Zealand, France, Italy, Uruguay, Namibia

Pool B – South Africa, Ireland, Scotland, Tonga, Romania

Pool C – Wales, Australia, Fiji, Georgia, Portugal

Pool D – England, Japan, Argentina, Samoa, Chile

The top two teams from each pool advance to the quarter-finals. The teams who finish third secure automatic qualification for the 2027 World Cup, which is scheduled to take place in Australia in 2027.

The quarter-final draw is as follows:

QF1 – Pool C winner v Pool D runner-up

QF 2 – Pool B winner v Pool A runner-up

QF 3 – Pool D winner v Pool C runner-up

QF 4 – Pool A winner v Pool B runner-up

That means if Scotland manage to progress from the group stages they would be likely to face New Zealand or France in the quarter-finals if results go as expected.

The semi-final draw is as follows:

Winner of QF 1 v Winner of QF2

Winner of QF 3 v Winner of QF 4

The 2023 Rugby World Cup final takes place on Saturday, October 28, at the Stade de France, kick-off 8pm.

[RDW]

Dylan Richardson as a hooker...?

[BigGee]

Dylan Richardson as a hooker...?

Yes, definitely one to watch.

He does seem to struggle to keep fit though, lots of injuries stop him playing regularly, which is probably why we have not seen more of him.

Our hookers are definitely knocking on a bit, so there is the possibility of an opening there.

[George Carlin]

Are we ruling out Hastings as still being crocked?

[RDW]

Dylan Richardson as a hooker...?

Yes, definitely one to watch.

He does seem to struggle to keep fit though, lots of injuries stop him playing regularly, which is probably why we have not seen more of him.

Our hookers are definitely knocking on a bit, so there is the possibility of an opening there.

Ashman seems to have filled out a bit but not lost any of his athleticism - I can see.him being our first choice soon. Jonny the scousers is only 30 so just warming up. George turner 31 so another WC left in him potentially.

Dave cherry is 32 so unless he's on top form for Edinburgh is probably one to start phasing out for Scotland.

[BigGee]

Scouse Johnny has surely done enough to get into the squad now and he seems to have the energy of a 21 year old.

Still, relying on a bunch of over 30s has its dangers and introducing some more youth into the mix can only be a good thing.

There are a few other promising young home grown hookers as well, Harrison at Edinburgh leading the field, but none really broken through yet.

If Richardson can stay fit and remains keen (he could go back to SA next year) then he will likely be in the mix. You do wonder why he has never moved over though, surely if he really was keen on playing for Scotland, that would be in his interest.

[Highland Shaun]

So anyway....6N isn't far away! Any bolters out there?

Tom Roebuck, Sean Maitland??

[BigGee]

So anyway....6N isn't far away! Any bolters out there?

Tom Roebuck, Sean Maitland??

We have been talking about Roebuck for a while, Kyle Rowe's form might push him back a bit even if he was interested.

Gotta love the venerable Sean, but we probably got to move on

[bsando]

I'm a bit worried that Russell will invigorate England's chances with his influence at Bath. He brings out the best in the players around him and some of those Bath players have looked incredibly dangerous this season. Given England began to build some good momentum in the RWC ending in a third place finish home advantage may count for nothing if Borthwick selects a side on good form.

Bolters wise I think the pack may see some of the biggest changes. I actually think Christie may be a starter in the back row with Watson excluded altogether. If winning the 6N is the goal then any RWC review will have considered how badly Scotland got pummelled up front against SA and Ireland. I love Richie Gray but Henderson for me is the stronger, better option. He packs down with Ollie Chessum most weeks for Leicester and was unlucky to miss out on selection for the RWC. Some change in that second row seems imminent to me.

Beating Wales in Cardiff is going to be a massive challenge for the group. Last years walkover in the second half will not happen again. It's going to be attritional and any idea that Scotland can start fast and build a lead is foolish. The only way Scotland will win is if they match Wales up front and earn the right to play wide.

[BigGee]

Personally, I feel time is up for Gilchrist and Ritchie and we need to move on from them both.

Henderson definitely will be in the mix, he could be the dynamic second row carrier pkaying alongside a workhorse like Johnny Gray, if he gets fit again.

Skyes, seems to be playing well for Edinburgh as well and could come into the squad as well.

I see Boan Venter signed another contract with Edinburgh today as well. He won't yrouble this squad but he could easily be the first to qualify on the 5 year residence rule. He will still be under 30 by then.

[bsando]

Hadn't twigged he may play for Scotland at some point, the more front row options the better!

Yes Sykes, Henderson, Hodgson, Young, all pushing for better game time. It could be an interesting wider squad this time around and i think Toonie will be throwing in a few curve balls as well. Really need J Gray back though, he just works hard and does a job.

[BigGee]

On the subject of bolters and hookers, here is an interview with Robbie Smith, with Mark Palmer in the Times. He may be playing for saints at Scotstoun on friday evening, Going on his travels seems to have done him no harm at all.





We bring news of an exciting young Northampton Saint called Smith who is desperate to play for Scotland.

Not Fin — the elegant 21-year-old fly half who has long been at the centre of a tug-of-war between the red rose and the thistle — but Robbie, the hooker who has gone from strength to strength south of the border after struggling to make the breakthrough at Glasgow.

Assuming he makes Phil Dowson’s match-day squad, the 25-year-old from Newton Stewart will be back at Scotstoun on Friday for the Champions Cup opener against a Warriors team captained by his close pal Stafford McDowall. The pair have come a long way in every sense from their native Dumfries and Galloway, and Smith is open about his wish for a reunion in the dark blue of the national team before too long.

He knows the immediate priority is to nail down a spot in an area of the Saints team where the likes of Sam Matavesi, Curtis Langdon and Tom Cruse all offer compelling alternatives, but the former Scotland under-20 captain has spied a template in the shape of Ewan Ashman, the now Edinburgh hooker who became a regular in the Test fold despite not being a fixture with his previous club, Sale Sharks.

“When you get that first opportunity, if you take it, you gain trust and that’s when the real hard work shines through,” Smith said. “We’ll see what happens, but it’s something I’d love to do — get into a camp and try to achieve a full cap at some point.

“I need to focus on trying to play as much as possible for Saints before that can happen, but this is a group where we are encouraged to be ambitious. There are a lot of young guys who want to get international honours, play 100 games in the Premiership, win the title — we’re always striving to ‘win’ the next thing. Even in training, it’s so competitive every single session.”

For the past six weeks, Smith’s progress has been stalled by a calf tear, and though he is well aware that Gregor Townsend would require a broader evidence base before issuing any call, he has already been rewarded for the courage he showed to put himself out there 4½ years ago.


Smith made his Warriors debut off the bench just before the 2019 Six Nations, but with the likes of George Turner, Fraser Brown and Grant Stewart all on the scene — and one Johnny Matthews about to be — he made the call to get out that summer.

“To be honest, I never really had the feeling that I was about to break through,” he said. “I had a lot of hunger in me that I wanted to try to play at the top level. I’d played for Ayr since I was about 17 and knew what the craic was there. It wasn’t a case of it not being good enough, but I always wanted to try to kick on and play professionally.

“With there only being two professional teams in Scotland, it does make it tough. But I had a good chat with Dave Rennie [the then Glasgow head coach]. He said that just because there wasn’t going to be a chance there didn’t mean that the door was closed. Someone with that amount of experience saying that really registered with me.

“He talked about George Turner playing at London Scottish three or four years before, so I always had it in my head that if someone like that — now the main man for Glasgow and Scotland — had gone away to better himself, it’s possible for me, too. It gave me a real kick to do that.”

Smith’s first port of call was Bedford Blues and a season in the rough-and-tumble of the Championship. As so many front-five forwards have attested down the years, it proved an excellent seat of learning.

“The best thing I’ve done in my career so far was moving there,” he said. “It’s been the defining moment so far in terms of the physicality side of things. Also, just being in an environment where I was involved every week. Not that I wasn’t thought of as a member of the squad at Glasgow, but I knew the craic walking in on a Monday morning that unless there were a few catastrophic injuries, I wasn’t going to be playing. I managed to get away to Bedford and I was starting. I loved it.”

Smith caught the eye of Newcastle Falcons, where he spent two seasons working with the former Scotland lock Scott MacLeod, who was in charge of the Kingston Park lineout. Smith did not play as often as he would have liked, but after moving to the Saints last year, he has consistently impressed whenever the chance has arisen. He has benefitted from Dowson’s switch towards a more abrasive style, which still retains a rich seam of the attacking flair, for which Chris Boyd’s sides became renowned, and is working on his contribution in the wider channels — again with half an eye on the Test arena.

“If you look at Scotland hookers, George Turner, Ewan Ashman, when they get the ball in space they’re really dynamic and can make something happen out of nothing. That’s something I’m trying to bring into my own game as well.

“Saints play a really exciting brand of rugby. We move the ball about well and have some pretty skilful players. From the first year I was here to now, what’s changed is that physicality side of things. We’re trying to have a lot more dominance in the set piece: lineout, maul and scrum. And defensively we’re trying to be a lot more physical. That’s an area I see as one of my strengths.”

He and McDowall shared a flat during their Glasgow academy days. “He was the landlord as well, so I couldn’t tell too many stories,” Smith said with a smile. “I’m from Newton Stewart, Stafford is from Castle Douglas. When I played for Newton Stewart at 14/15, he was at Stewartry — we always used to play each other and our dads knew each other from talking on the sidelines. I remember me and Staff used to send Facebook messages the night before about how we were going to smash each other.

“He moved away to Merchiston, he took the private school side of things, which he gets torn into about. We came together again at Glasgow. I stayed with him for three years, played 20s together and used to share lifts together up and down if we went home at the weekends. We both played at Ayr as well.

“He had a year and a half where he wasn’t getting the game time that he wanted, but Staff will always put his head down and graft. He’s reaping rewards now. It just shows that if you get your head down and stick at it, it’s possible to get to where you want to be.”

[Hazel Sapling]

Cameron Henderson is out for the year with another knee injury (sounds like an ACL again). Gutting for him.

He was my favourite to come in for the Six Nations to push for a second row spot. Hunter-Hill has not been playing much so not sure we will see any new second rows stake a claim.

[BigGee]

Hunter-Hill also having knee surgery

Might open up a slot for Sykes or Young, who have probably been the pick of the other second rows.

[king_carlos]

Cameron Henderson is out for the year with another knee injury (sounds like an ACL again). Gutting for him.

He was my favourite to come in for the Six Nations to push for a second row spot. Hunter-Hill has not been playing much so not sure we will see any new second rows stake a claim.

Such a shame for Henderson when he's already done his ACL before. Since returning from that he's been great for Tigers. Henderson and George Martin played a big role in Tigers improving later last season. They came together as a new lock partnership due to injury and were excellent.

We just have to hope it's not something that plagues him now.

[BigGee]

Cameron Henderson is out for the year with another knee injury (sounds like an ACL again). Gutting for him.

He was my favourite to come in for the Six Nations to push for a second row spot. Hunter-Hill has not been playing much so not sure we will see any new second rows stake a claim.

Such a shame for Henderson when he's already done his ACL before. Since returning from that he's been great for Tigers. Henderson and George Martin played a big role in Tigers improving later last season. They came together as a new lock partnership due to injury and were excellent.

We just have to hope it's not something that plagues him now.

Well they are often stronger once fixed than they were before, so hopefully if he has done both now, that will be his lot.

Other players, like Cam Redpath have come back successfully from having both ACLs done and it does not seem to have affected their games.

Lets hope it is the same for CH

[bsando]

Ross Thompson making a start for Glasgow this weekend. He’s very much behind Russell, Healy and kinghorn but a run of freak injuries could mean he is suddenly back in contention for Scotland. Can he build some form leading up the 6N? How is our depth after those four players looking?

[BigGee]

Another slightly poignant retirement announced today.

Dr James Robson, the highly respected team doctor and SRU Chief Medical Officer, will hang up his stethoscope at the end of this years 6N.

He has given 30 years of service to this job and includes several Lions tours on his CV as well.

A pioneer in sports medicine who will be missed.

He may well have saved Thom Evans from spending the rest of his life in a wheelchair by his quick thinking and actions that day in Cardiff.

Thom and a lot of other Scottish players have a lotvto thank him for.

[BigGee]

Jim Mallinder to step down from his role as SRU Director of Rugby at the end of this season.

It may be the nature of the job, but a bit like Scott Johnston before him, it has not always been entirely clear what he has brought to the party?

On the plus side, the men's team have reached an all time high world ranking, but this has not been reflected in good WC performances.

Women's rugby has probably been the standout success of this time, with a notable improvement for the national team, including WC qualification and playing numbers up, unlike the men's game.

The Super 6 series, while the format is still not quite there, has generally reckoned to be a positive introduction and could certainly kick on and become an even stronger tournament.

Age grade rugby has massively regressed though in his time, though Covid has played a part in that and at least some attempts are now being made to try and make some improvements, even if the Futures Team in the Super 6 may not be quite the way to go about it.

I have no idea who might be stepping in to take over from him but they will continue to have a big job to do.

[bsando]

There is plenty do in the mens game to increase playing numbers and bridge that gap from age grade to professional. The excellent two part interview by TOL with John McGuigan certainly touched on that. Link>>> https://www.theoffsideline.com/john-mcguigan-interview-1/

As did this one with Bryan Redpath. Link>>> https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/its-hard-to-see-the-path-a-good-young-player-takes-bryan-redpath-on-scottish-rugbys-development-issue/

Given our limitations as a smaller nation with a strong emphasis on football, I would be very happy to see the SRU pump money into Women's rugby across Scotland over the next decade.

With the rise in women's sport globally it's an opportunity to try and capture participants who may well have looked to play another sport while attracting new sponsors. I don't see the traditional rugby regions providing the bulk of players either if the SRU are smart about this. It's almost like a second chance after the failure to adapt to professionalism that still to this day leaves us reigning Five Nations champions without a single 6N's title.

[RDW]

Javan Sebastian has been ruled out until midway through the 6N. Not ideal given we're not overflowing with THs.

Nel to keep going??

[BigGee]

Not seeing many other options really, though Keeble was back playing TH for Glasgow, who are also a bit short in that department, at the weekend.

Walker is also injured and just had surgery, then I suppose it is Rae or Williams at Edinburgh.

You would imagine it will be Nelly!

[RDW]

https://www.planetrugby.com/news/steve-borthwick-alerted-as-gregor-townsend-has-been-sniffing-around-scotland-qualified-sale-sharks-trio?fbclid=IwAR11eEQeKqie3GE-AGfvCTQRmNjyOch1KVfckgOLlwd_oGFFkJqhv9eZjL0

[BigGee]

Decesion time for these lads you might think.

The 6N squad announcements might be interesting this time around.

[RDW]

Another 9 is probably the most pressing short term need given Price's decline. White will be a fixture in the team for the long-term but I'm not convinced Horne and Dobbie are true international class.

Wing is much less urgent IMO as Duhan, Darcy and Steyn are our established 3 and we have others like Rowe who will do a job in an emergency. Roebuck is young though so worth developing for the long-term. I don't know much about the other Sale winger.

[bsando]

Smith chat is all rugby journo hype. He’s never going to play for Scotland. Obviously Townsend has to approach him but I just can’t see him swapping to Scotland given how rated he is at Northampton and England.

I’m still team Healy anyway. He’s got a grittiness and discipline to his work ethic that counters Russell’s flamboyanc.

If things had gone differently Smith as a third choice FH would have had potential to battle it out with Hastings and Thompson. Injuries always happen as well although Russell has been incredibly resilient in comparison to Sexton and Biggar.

Likelihood of getting all these Sale players seems pretty unlikely to me. I’d love to see Warr come on board though.

Ultimately though we need more depth at tighthead!!  

[RDW]

Smith chat is all rugby journo hype. He’s never going to play for Scotland. Obviously Townsend has to approach him but I just can’t see him swapping to Scotland given how rated he is at Northampton and England.

I’m still team Healy anyway. He’s got a grittiness and discipline to his work ethic that counters Russell’s flamboyanc.

If things had gone differently Smith as a third choice FH would have had potential to battle it out with Hastings and Thompson. Injuries always happen as well although Russell has been incredibly resilient in comparison to Sexton and Biggar.

Likelihood of getting all these Sale players seems pretty unlikely to me. I’d love to see Warr come on board though.

Ultimately though we need more depth at tighthead!!  

Smith and Hastings would be way ahead.of Thomson IMO by virtue of they fact they're regularly staters in Premiership teams. Noting Smith hasn't chosen his side yet of course.

I'd agree with you on being team Healy as a point of difference from Finn but I think we need a full season from him to see how much of the real deal he actually is. He's done some good things for Edinburgh this season but also plenty bad - especially last weekend although not helped by playing behind a poor pack performance. He's guilty of forcing pre planned moves that are not on, and some of of attacking kick choices have been questionable. I'll give him some slack by being new to the team but that won't be a valid excuse for much longer.

Hastings is 27 now so prime standoff years - if he can get a run of games together maybe he'll lift his game to the next level.

[bsando]

Absolutely, he’s still gelling and Edinburgh have a new coach as well so it may even take two seasons to see the best from him and the Edinburgh team as a whole. I’ve certainly seen some of the errors he can make at times. Time very much on his side which is great though. All players have their flaws and when it comes to being a standoff for Scotland the time you get to execute is always shorter than say playing behind a strong SA pack for example. Probably why Russell has developed so well now I think on it.

Hastings is class. I know some are not a fan but I think he’s got plenty more days in a Scotland shirt ahead of him. Which is why I think all the Smith rumours are winding me up a bit, we have good fly halves already. Talk of promises of a match day place seem really unfair in likes of Hastings and Healy.

[RDW]

It's certainly a difficult one for Toonie to navigate. Why would these guys commit to Scotland if not promised gametime, but that then has the risk of upsetting the established players who have been doing the hard yards if these guys come straight in ahead of them.

We've said it many time before on this forum - just because they didn't come through the Scottish system doesn't automate make them better than those who stayed local! Fans are often guilty of viewing English Prem players as being a step above which isn't really the case.

[bsando]

Yep and Smith for example wouldn’t be a wonder player who would suddenly win us a six nations either. He’s still very raw and developing. I’d also like to think we don’t need the SRU to make ‘deals’ with players to secure their talent now that Scotland have caught up with professionalism somewhat. Brining Healy over was definitely what Edinburgh needed given VDW wasn’t working out. Big plus with siding with Scotland is that if you’re talented enough you can often get lots of international game time. With England and France you often need to be integral to the team to retain regular selection. Otherwise it’s a dogfight to get a look in with a bigger pool of potential stars.

[Highland Shaun]

When is the squad announced because I was watching Premiership highlights of the past weekend earlier on and Topsy said England's is Thursday, isn't that a bit early??

Anyway we may know more then regarding Roebuck, Reed and Warr because I'm certain Fin Smith will be in England team now Farrell is out but I suppose they do still have Ford and Smith slightly ahead of him, same probably goes for the other 3 too but I don't really know tbh.

[king_carlos]

When is the squad announced because I was watching Premiership highlights of the past weekend earlier on and Topsy said England's is Thursday, isn't that a bit early??

For a while now England have named their Six Nations squad on the Monday before the final European group round. Which would be the 15th Jan this year. Then they go into camp for the Monday after the Euro groups are done. That's been consistent across a few coaches.

There is variance but most the Six Nations teams are in that week between the 3rd and 4th Euro rounds for the initial squad announcement. Italy went a week early last year. Sometimes coaches wait until the following week if they have injury concerns. Most coaches announce early in that same week though.

England might be different this year though as the PGA (Professional Game Agreement) that dictates the tenuously negotiated truce between the RFU (Twickers) and PRL (Prem shareholder clubs) is up for renewal. This dictates the contract structures for England players and the size of the EPS (Elite Player Squad - a 45-man England squad that isn't publicly announced but coaches must pick their announced training squads from except when they pick other players for 'reasons' when the clubs agree behind closed doors).

The Prem is f***ed financially so have little bargaining power. Rumours are the RFU want to capitalise by bringing in hybrid contracts that appear to be central contracts. It will also likely change the size of the EPS. Which might then be announced publicly again. So there are rumours that Borthwick is picking a 50-man squad that will be announced soon. Then presumably a Six Nations squad from that 50-man group will be named at a later date. Unless they just announce a smaller Six Nations squad whilst keeping the EPS secret again.

If that seems clear then you're smarter than me. As usual with English rugby governance it's about as transparent as a hangover p*ss.

In terms of tying dual qualified players there is also a England 'A' game scheduled at Welford Road the day after the Calcutta Cup against Portugal. Or potentially against Portugal A. Or maybe just the Portugal team playing as Portugal A for logistical reasons. In which case it may or may not tie players as both teams fielded would or wouldn't be their nations respective designated second representative team. So depending on whether that does or does not go ahead, England may or may not be able to use this to try to keep hold of the likes of Roebuck and Warr for a few more years, depending on whether they have or haven't already been named in a full squads for either country.

Rugby's great isn't it?

[BigGee]

At some point in every players career, they have got to make a decision.

I am very supportive of dual qualified players and their dilemmas, maybe partly because as someone who strongly identifies as being Scottish, and yet has lived in England for 55 years and has children who could qualify for 3 countries.

Despite all that though, players do have to make their call and you suspect that time has arisen for Smith,  Roebuck and Warr.

This will be an interesting squad announcement.

[Tramptastic]

So... Smith should be brought in on his form. He's young, playing well, and after the next world cup could be vying with Healy, Hastings and Thompson for the shirt after Russell retires (having singlehandedly cost us the world cup by intercepting himself during the 81st minute of the final).

Smith shouldnt have to brought in with the promise of "The shirt IS yours". Thats toxic, horrible and i doubt toonie has even made that offer to him.

Warr will play for Scotland im sure of it, however, he needs to beat Price, Horne and White for a squad place. Tough competition, 2/3 of those are playing in Scotland and playing verra well.

Roebuck seems far less certain - another Ruaridh Mconnichie? His competition is Duhan, Darcy, Rowe and Steyn who are all very classy players. Is Roebuck better than these options purely because he plays in the Prem? A wee reminder that Duhan stepped the entirety of the England team in the calcutta cup and they all play in the prem...

[No 7&1/2]

Smith is good enough to be in your match day squad now. Warr probably.

Roebuck is excellent in the air and decent turn of pace. Bit I think he's very average other than that. Would suit Borthwicks kick and hope game but wouldn't add more to you.

[BigGee]

Now that Toonie has signed up for the long term again, in all liklihood, he will take us through the next WC cycle. He is going to be asking hinself some other questions than who are our best options at the moment.

Quite a few of our current players will be well north of 30 in 4 years time with no guarantee that age and injury will not have caught up with them.

That applies to Russell, Price and even Duhan, there are not many barn storming wingers in their 30s in world rugby, it is generally a young man's game out wide.

Integrating some younger blood into the squad is important for the sge profile as well as keeping the older players, who may feel quite comfortable in the shirt, on their toes.

He does not need to do this radically, in the way Eddie Jones decimated the Australisn squad, but he does need to start the process.

Let's not forget as well, thst we did not have a great WC, so to trott out for this 6N with the same group of players is likely to be inviting more of the same.

So I am all for some evolution of the squad, I don't think we have that much to lose.

[Tramptastic]

I think the players you've named just need an eye kept on. Duhan doesn't seem to be slowing down, albeit this may change over the next 4 years.

I think it's easy to fall in to the trap of the 4 year cycle. I'd like to win a six nations, if the squad are capable over the next couple of years then persist. I'd much rather tinker post-lions or on summer tours.

The players that do concern me with age are the 2nd rows - Gray sr and Gilchrist. Could do with Skinner and Cummings stepping up as starters, Gray Jr coming back in, Sykes and Henderson being included more (i realise Henderson is injured).

Nel could probably do one more six nations as Sea bass is injured but will likely start to show his age more and more.

[bsando]

As you say Tramp, the second row is ageing and that makes me quite cautious about how well Scotland can do this six nations. I’m willing to give toonie some slack given the injuries in the pack. You have to have a good pack to win games in the six nations and Scotland are weakened this year. Losing Walker and Sebastian, Sutherland still getting mixed game time and unable to solidify his club career is a problem. Henderson is a massive blow and then there’s the back row injuries to add to that. Not great.

Meanwhile England and wales have good props both side of the scrum playing regularly this season. I’m expecting a reversal in results from last year. We can only hope the poor form in Welsh club rugby can help Scotland out a bit in Cardiff.

[RDW]

Russell v Hastings this weekend

[bsando]

Hutchinson with the match winner for Saints away to Exeter. Sounds like he had a good game too. Possible recall on the cards given the form of Saints this season?

And given Dingwall keeps getting snubbed by England, could his name potentially pop out of the toombola?

[Highland Shaun]

Hutchinson with the match winner for Saints away to Exeter. Sounds like he had a good game too. Possible recall on the cards given the form of Saints this season?

And given Dingwall keeps getting snubbed by England, could his name potentially pop out of the toombola?

I would not be surprised in the slightest but I'm certain that Rory Hutchinson will be overlooked once again as form doesn't really matter as far as Gregor is concerned but tbh surely even he can't ignore the form Hutch is on .

Any idea when squad is announced, I presume it will be next week sometime so players could stake a claim by performing well in Challenge/European cup matches?

[bsando]

Hutchinson with the match winner for Saints away to Exeter. Sounds like he had a good game too. Possible recall on the cards given the form of Saints this season?

And given Dingwall keeps getting snubbed by England, could his name potentially pop out of the toombola?

I would not be surprised in the slightest but I'm certain that Rory Hutchinson will be overlooked once again as form doesn't really matter as far as Gregor is concerned but tbh surely even he can't ignore the form Hutch is on .

Any idea when squad is announced, I presume it will be next week sometime so players could stake a claim by performing well in Challenge/European cup matches?

I think it'll be the week afterwards, it's always quite a quick turnaround from club rugby to the Six Nations. Edinburgh have Gloucester at home and Glasgow have Exeter. After that weekend of Euro fixtures I'd expect a squad announcement.

[bsando]

I read a very interesting article in the ft this weekend about competition amongst European football teams to build new stadiums. At the core of these big developments is the team, however redesigning the stadium is to increase commercial opportunities.

In the SRU annual report we can see despite a £10m loss Dodson and co tapped into this idea with big concerts at Murrayfield last year resulting in commercial revenue up from 3.2m in 2022 to 7.7m in 2023.

Given Murrayfield is connected by tram with its own dedicated stop, a major redevelopment of the stadium (although potentially costly) could be a game changer for Scottish rugby and the city of Edinburgh.

One event that is unique to Edinburgh is the fringe. A lack of accommodation for artists and visitors has become a hot topic in recent years. Given Murrayfield is slightly outside the city centre but well connected there could be an opportunity for any potential redesign of the stadium to include a Hotel and small venues that could tap into this. Opening an onsite distillery in collaboration with a notable whisky brand could also be another idea. A microbrewery? The list goes on.

According to the article the football clubs undertaking these developments ultimately have to pay for the cost of construction that could increase or come with its own problems. Personally I think Murrayfield has an advantage being outside of Edinburgh city centre. There would be less issue with planning unlike Stamford Bridge for example, which is stuffed into one of the most expensive areas of real estate in London.

Tottenham are the prime example of what can be achieved and they also got it done during the era of cheap borrowing.

Regardless of what the SRU do in the future I’ll be keeping an eye on the redevelopment of other stadiums in Europe to see how they evolve.

[RDW]

Some interesting thoughts Bsando. The cost of borrowing is the gamechanger here particularly when you're talking 300M - 1BN for the size of development you're suggesting. Now is not the time to be taking on a significant loan.

What worries me is the SRU has no plan whatsoever for the upgrade/replacement of Murrayfield. These types of massive capital cost projects requires 5 years of planning and design before you even break ground. Given that we know this is something that we definitely need to do within the next decade (maybe sooner) what is the plan? Are we seeking government funds? Private investment? Do it all within SRU finance? Are the SRU happy to have 10 years of significantly reduced budgets and likely downturn in results to fund this?

We need a rich investor with more money than sense - how's the Saudi Arabian law scene treating you George Carlin?

[bsando]

Nailed it RDW, although inflation is slowly coming down, so cheap-er-ish borrowing may commence this year compared with 2022 and 2023. The lack of a long term plan is scary however. Knowing the SRU it’ll be a botched rush job that realises less than half the potential in 2030. Private equity is probably the only way to get a big redesign done, unless Gerard Butler has the funds?

[EWT Spoons]

The SRU have been talking of doing work around MF for a few years now.  They intended to build a hotel on the grounds, which if memory serves is why the Wanderers weren't granted an extension to their lease on the clubhouse.

I do wonder though if building the Hive has forced the SRU to rethink their strategy for the estate given it's proximity to the main bowl.  Plus as mentioned the rapidly increases costs associated with borrowing.

MF could be a real cash generator for the SRU if they do it right, there is real scope for getting more concerts, events etc.  Plus hospitality with private boxes, which don't really exist currently.

However they need to be careful with all of this.  When the game when pro the SRU focused on getting MF right and it set us back years due to all investment going there rather than on players development.  It's a fine balancing act and despite the stadium showing it's age and in need of renovation, at this time when the costs associated with everything (electricity, heating, raw materials as well as interest rates) are on the rise/the highest they've been in years, it's potentially not the right time.

[Tramptastic]

Whats the issue with the main stadium? is it foundation/lifespan of concrete and structures? If its not these issues then you could certainly crack on with investing in hotels etc on the north side of MF

[EWT Spoons]

On the Toonie search for SQ players, whilst it's great he's chatting with lads who are SQ, we need a new front row, or at least more depth there.

Schoeman and Sutherland are good LH options, but Suz is still struggling for club form and after those two the cupboard is pretty bare.

Hooker - Ashman is young and still developing, Turner has a horrible habit of throwing himself head first at opponents knees etc and injuring himself.  Mathews isn't particularly good (sorry Glasgow fans), he's brilliant at the back of a maul, but realistically it's the group of lads ahead of him doing the majority of the work in that scenario.  He's not especially brilliant at hooking and his darts are so so, very good club player, not really an international, especially as he's already 30.  Not really much depth after that.

Tighthead - Nel played nearly the full game in the 1872 at Murrayfield, which shows how little faith is placed on Rae who got the last few mins, and rightly so, the lad is bang average (no offence to him, but he's an okay player, but if you'd rather stick with a 37 year old for 70 odd mins rather than bring him off the bench, it shows his quality) other than that there is no one who is SQ at Edinburgh worth mentioning.  At Glasgow, there's Fagerson who is so far ahead as first choice for Scotland it's mad, but he started playing so early in his career that he's not going to have the longevity of the like of Nel, I would be amazed if he makes it to his mid 30s before the toll of playing forces him to retire.  Behind him, there's not exactly a plethora of TH talent either.

So whilst looking at scrumhalves and backs is fine, work needs to be done very soon to look at front row options.

[EWT Spoons]

Whats the issue with the main stadium? is it foundation/lifespan of concrete and structures? If its not these issues then you could certainly crack on with investing in hotels etc on the north side of MF

Age mate. The average lifespan of a stadium is around 30 - 50 years. The East stand is around 40 years old and the rest is in it's 30s, it also needs renovation in general. So within the next 5-10 years there is probably going to be a need to do something with the stadium, whether that's renovating it, or thinking longer term and making it a multi use facility, which I'm not sure if totally achievable in it's current format

[formerly known as Sam]

It's not a guarantee that Zander will retire early. Dan Cole was playing senior rugby from 20 and is still a regular 16 years later. This 6N will mark 14 years since his international debut. Luck and how committed they are to looking after their body are pretty key.

Murray McCallum is at Falcons and getting game time if Scotland are particularly desperate.

[EWT Spoons]

A fair point, but I think we should be planning for him retiring reasonably early and if he doesn't then it's a bonus

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