2nd QF Ireland v New Zealand - Stade de France, Saint Denis

First topic message reminder :

Ireland: Keenan, Hansen, Ringrose, Aki, Lowe; Sexton (capt), Gibson-Park; Porter, Sheehan, Furlong; Beirne, Henderson; O'Mahony, Van der Flier, Doris.

Replacements: Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Bealham, McCarthy, Conan, Murray, Crowley, O'Brien.

New Zealand: Beauden Barrett, Will Jordan, Rieko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, Leicester Fainga'anuku, Richie Mo'unga, Aaron Smith, Ardie Savea, Sam Cane (c), Shannon Frizell, Scott Barrett, Brodie Retallick, Tyrel Lomax, Codie Taylor, Ethan de Groot

Replacements: Dane Coles, Tamaiti Williams, Fletcher Newell, Samuel Whitelock, Dalton Papali'i, Finlay Christie, Damian McKenzie

Referee: Wayne Barnes TMO: Tom Foley

Assistant referees: Matthew Carley and Christophe Ridley

One point of note is how outstanding a tournament Aki had. Up until the final whistle he was definitely one of the players of the tournament.

This showed the difference between the top 4 teams and the rest. It is a chasm.

A fantastic rugby match,  and it's a shame that someone had to lose. Sad for Sexton that his dream is over, and O'Mahony too - both have been huge servants for their country.

Well played NZ - a thoroughly enjoyable experience as a neutral. We were exhausted after 10 minutes just watching it!

Is this the first World Cup match where all the tries were scored by players born in the same country?

Mr Bounce wrote:This showed the difference between the top 4 teams and the rest. It is a chasm.

A fantastic rugby match,  and it's a shame that someone had to lose. Sad for Sexton that his dream is over, and O'Mahony too - both have been huge servants for their country.

Well played NZ - a thoroughly enjoyable experience as a neutral. We were exhausted after 10 minutes just watching it!

Is this the first World Cup match where all the tries were scored by players born in the same country?

Fainga'anuku was born in Tonga according to Wikipedia.

Heartbroken for Ireland. Just shows that in the current top 4, whoever plays best on the day will win. Ireland gave it absolutely everything and can be proud. NZ had their best collective game in 2 years and they needed to in order to win it.

Galted wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:This showed the difference between the top 4 teams and the rest. It is a chasm.

A fantastic rugby match,  and it's a shame that someone had to lose. Sad for Sexton that his dream is over, and O'Mahony too - both have been huge servants for their country.

Well played NZ - a thoroughly enjoyable experience as a neutral. We were exhausted after 10 minutes just watching it!

Is this the first World Cup match where all the tries were scored by players born in the same country?

Fainga'anuku was born in Tonga according to Wikipedia.

Also, the England-France semi final in 2003 only involved one try, which was scored by a Frenchman.

Commiserations Ireland, NZ were just on song yesterday.

Another 6Ns title beckons though!

Well done NZ the talk of their decline was premature (I'm as guilty as anyone). I do still worry about their falling super rugby attendances and the ever growing influence of the NRL, but this should give the sport there a big shot in the arm.

Just watched it, thought Ireland played well and were out on their feet at the end. NZ can always be relied upon to bring an intensity to the breakdown, they just hadn't shown it thus far, which is a credit to Ireland.
Lineouts were more of a contest with hookers generally made to stand down the middle, although NZ only kicked out only as a last resort, a clear tactic. Porter will be disappointed with stepping out at scrums in the middle of the park, when he didn't need to. A couple of bits of magic from Mounga and Barrett for their tries made the game.

NZ played a quarter of that game with 14 men and apart from the Gibson Park try when Smith was off, managed the game incredibly well, a backs to the wall performance. I fear a little for France this evening and sadly the SH are two up already.

Thanks and commiserations to Ireland. England losses are hard to take but this Irish defeat seems more heartbreaking than any of those in recent memory. This team is up there with the 1995 and 2007 All Blacks as one of the finest not to win a World Cup.

Congratulations to New Zealand. They recognized the scale of the challenge Ireland posed, and rose to it.

Not a good interview post game from Sexton.

Referee didn’t give them anything apparently. I appreciate it’s tough when you usually get a free pass at scrummaging (Porter) and ruck entries, but every now and then you’re going to have to observe a law or two.

NeilyBroon wrote:Commiserations Ireland, NZ were just on song yesterday.

Another 6Ns title beckons though!

Every team except one will be rebuilding. Unfortunately that one team is France. Who finishes 2nd will be very interesting though

RiscaGame wrote:Not a good interview post game from Sexton.

Referee didn’t give them anything apparently. I appreciate it’s tough when you usually get a free pass at scrummaging (Porter) and ruck entries, but every now and then you’re going to have to observe a law or two.

Snore

doctor_grey wrote:In the old days, after a match like that, one would simply say:  THAT was a proper test match!

Random lines from Bill McLaren starting popping into my head ("this one's coming down with snow on it", "Ethan de Groot, born when meat was cheap" ) yesterday

Was a match for the ages.

lostinwales wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:Commiserations Ireland, NZ were just on song yesterday.

Another 6Ns title beckons though!

Every team except one will be rebuilding. Unfortunately that one team is France. Who finishes 2nd will be very interesting though

I think it'd be hard to bet against Ireland.

Scotland are used to wound licking post RWCs these days but I don't think we'll be rebuilding unless Toonie steps down, we may have new staff under him though.

Wales and England seem to have found a bit of stability so could be in the race.

France it very much depends how today goes I think.

Italy... Well they're really not doing so well at the moment!

NeilyBroon wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:Commiserations Ireland, NZ were just on song yesterday.

Another 6Ns title beckons though!

Every team except one will be rebuilding. Unfortunately that one team is France. Who finishes 2nd will be very interesting though

I think it'd be hard to bet against Ireland.

Scotland are used to wound licking post RWCs these days but I don't think we'll be rebuilding unless Toonie steps down, we may have new staff under him though.

Wales and England seem to have found a bit of stability so could be in the race.

France it very much depends how today goes I think.

Italy... Well they're really not doing so well at the moment!

Wales lose Biggar. They lost most of the rest of the old guard prior to the RWC but still a work in progress
Ireland lose Sexton. They are more than just him but he's been so central to everything they have achieved and his boots will be hard to fill
England probably won't be losing anything like enough of the old guard but we live in hope
France is still a young team. Most of them will still be available in 4 years time
But yes you are right about Scotland

No idea why folk keep saying Ireland are cursed in QF. It’s 2023 for goodness sake

Ireland came unstuck against a New Zealand team hitting thier form again and Ireland were undone, as many a losing side are, with set piece at the scrum and lineout.

Is O'Mahony going to retire? He's about 50 isn't he? He's seemingly been running out in green forever. I would wager he is almost as talismanic as Sexton, certainly from a forwards point of view.

Mr Bounce wrote:Is O'Mahony going to retire? He's about 50 isn't he? He's seemingly been running out in green forever. I would wager he is almost as talismanic as Sexton, certainly from a forwards point of view.

I would assume so and that's the messaging.

I think that the bigger point is that the squad of Irish forwards is so good that they don't need POM in the same way as they arguably still 'need' Sexton.

Ireland are a surprisingly old squad. In terms of guys over 30 and putting the 30 year olds as italics (not an Ireland fan so not sure of anyone other than Healy who is not in the wiki RWC squad):

Healy/Kilcoyne - Herring - Furlong/Bealham
Beirne - Henderson
POM - Conan - Van der Flier

Gibson-Park/Murray - Sexton
Aki/McCloskey - Henshaw
Lowe - Earls

Worth pointing out Furlong turns 31 next month so will be almost 35 at the next RWC. Plenty of young players coming through but that is a very good side aging out.

Argentina have two 38 year olds too, Creevy and Kodela. SA have the oldest squad.

After last night's match Bauden Barret became the 6th player to win 100 test matches.
The other five are all All Blacks. That shows just how good they have been over the years

And the ball in play time was 41 minutes.

Stats I love em

Mr Bounce wrote:This showed the difference between the top 4 teams and the rest. It is a chasm.

A fantastic rugby match,  and it's a shame that someone had to lose. Sad for Sexton that his dream is over, and O'Mahony too - both have been huge servants for their country.

Well played NZ - a thoroughly enjoyable experience as a neutral. We were exhausted after 10 minutes just watching it!

Is this the first World Cup match where all the tries were scored by players born in the same country?

Doubt it. Will be a lot of matches where one side got all the tries.

ebop wrote:Commiserations Ireland. An impressive team that has grown into a confident force

That knock on from an AB goal line drop kick was crucial and let us off the hook. Unlucky Ireland and shame this was a 1/4 as they’re better than a 1/4 exit. The backline made ground easily at times and retained possession well. Reverted to shovelling the ball in the last phase and that was costly. Were either knackered, too conservative or angling for a pen and kick to corner for a maul? Anyways, proud of the ABs for being patient and not doing anything stupid in that critical time. Great game, tense as heck, and will enjoy the highlights more knowing the final score.

ps. And shout out to Wayne Barnes and both teams for a flowing game

Was a fitting final, though France and SA might have something to say about that.

carpet baboon wrote:After last night's match Bauden Barret became the 6th player to win 100 test matches.
The other five are all All Blacks. That shows just how good they have been over the years

And the ball in play time was 41 minutes.

Stats I love em

Apparently NZ's win rate since they started playing test rugby is 77%. Re-read that number. It's absolutely insane.

Yeah its quite high, Irelands is below 50%

George Carlin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:After last night's match Bauden Barret became the 6th player to win 100 test matches.
The other five are all All Blacks. That shows just how good they have been over the years

And the ball in play time was 41 minutes.

Stats I love em

Apparently NZ's win rate since they started playing test rugby is 77%. Re-read that number. It's absolutely insane.

It was up around 90 for about 2004 to 2018

Taylorman wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:After last night's match Bauden Barret became the 6th player to win 100 test matches.
The other five are all All Blacks. That shows just how good they have been over the years

And the ball in play time was 41 minutes.

Stats I love em

Apparently NZ's win rate since they started playing test rugby is 77%. Re-read that number. It's absolutely insane.

It was up around 90 for about 2004 to 2018

Crazy stats.

Shows how hard it is to win a world cup though! Add +/- 1 year to that date range and NZ only won 2 of those 5 world cups.

Even France's win rate is only around 55% over the years.

If there was a player I had the chance to issue a slap upon... I know what you're thinking but no it wouldn't be Sexton, or Biggar! It would be Reiko Ioane. His showboating and classlessness really irks me. I see he's done it again after the QF, and he's been caught doing it on several occasions in the past. Funny how he had a scared look on his face the entire time during previous matches NZ weren't winning!

What did he do Mikey? Any links?

Would be surprised if you haven't read it yet, Collapse? I noticed Sexton replying angrily to someone, I didn't know who at the time but I've since read it. To still be doing it is pathetic, and I'm sure one of his (Ioane) own players would have had a word with him the first couple occasions! I don't think Sexton did anything during the game but it seems he was targeted.

His actions didn't impress the Irish Times' Gerry Thornley.

"Ioane, in a classless gesture, put his finger to his lips while looking at the Irish crowd, and then felt compelled to bid farewell to Sexton," the rugby correspondent, who was at the match, wrote.

Ioane also appeared to draw the ire of departing Ireland captain Johnny Sexton.

mikey_dragon wrote:If there was a player I had the chance to issue a slap upon... I know what you're thinking but no it wouldn't be Sexton, or Biggar! It would be Reiko Ioane. His showboating and classlessness really irks me. I see he's done it again after the QF, and he's been caught doing it on several occasions in the past. Funny how he had a scared look on his face the entire time during previous matches NZ weren't winning!

Those two retiring leaves Farrell as most slapable player

Although the Irish have spent a chunk of their time Wales-whinging, even in the aftermath of our QF exit, I don't understand why a pro player would behave that way towards the Irish crowd who have been fantastic at the world cup. But he did more than that and he's done it in Cardiff before too. If you were doing that to a French crowd, I'd probably understand...

mikey_dragon wrote:Would be surprised if you haven't read it yet, Collapse? I noticed Sexton replying angrily to someone, I didn't know who at the time but I've since read it. To still be doing it is pathetic, and I'm sure one of his (Ioane) own players would have had a word with him the first couple occasions! I don't think Sexton did anything during the game but it seems he was targeted.

His actions didn't impress the Irish Times' Gerry Thornley.

"Ioane, in a classless gesture, put his finger to his lips while looking at the Irish crowd, and then felt compelled to bid farewell to Sexton," the rugby correspondent, who was at the match, wrote.

Ioane also appeared to draw the ire of departing Ireland captain Johnny Sexton.

Didnt see it but dont really care that much. Stuff like that comes back to bite players which is why I didnt feel great about POM sledging Cane in the three test series, its just silly stuff really.

Even though we lost Ioanes behaviour might mean Ireland have been in the ABs heads a bit.

George Carlin wrote:Heartbroken for Ireland. Just shows that in the current top 4, whoever plays best on the day will win. Ireland gave it absolutely everything and can be proud. NZ had their best collective game in 2 years and they needed to in order to win it.

We had one similarly in Ellis park last year, the toughest venue for ABs traditionally. But then subsequently lost to Argie. So there are parallels here.

Rugby Fan wrote:Thanks and commiserations to Ireland. England losses are hard to take but this Irish defeat seems more heartbreaking than any of those in recent memory. This team is up there with the 1995 and 2007 All Blacks as one of the finest not to win a World Cup.

Congratulations to New Zealand. They recognized the scale of the challenge Ireland posed, and rose to it.

Yea those two in particular really hit NZ rugby. Not only were they winning but they were beating everyone by big margins. A decisive grand slam of the home unions in 1995 and absurd scores in 2007 before faulting so it’s a big comparison, Irelands margins not so extensive against the top sides. This AB side has just capped its worse period in its history… it’s not a good side in comparison with many others. Ireland meanwhile has just completed its best ever two years. So some context.

As much as I love the team ultimately Ireland can have no complaints. A man up for 20mins, and I thought the Smith YC was a tad harsh, but didn't take full advantage. Kicked the ball away numerous times in the NZ 22 when well and truely on top in the 3rd quarter. Kicked the penalty when the lineout maul had NZ at panic stations. Should have had the control to get the ball down for the Barrett hold up.

It felt like New Zealand got nearly everything right;
dream start on the scoreboard, used chips and grubbers to great effect, successfully targeted Porter in the scrum, made a mess of a pile of Irish lineouts, managed the ref's breakdown foibles really well, and crucially were clinical. It was a masterclass. And yet, it was so close.

lostinwales wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If there was a player I had the chance to issue a slap upon... I know what you're thinking but no it wouldn't be Sexton, or Biggar! It would be Reiko Ioane. His showboating and classlessness really irks me. I see he's done it again after the QF, and he's been caught doing it on several occasions in the past. Funny how he had a scared look on his face the entire time during previous matches NZ weren't winning!

Those two retiring leaves Farrell as most slapable player

Only because Itoje is too tall to give a slap to...

Engine#4 wrote:As much as I love the team ultimately Ireland can have no complaints. A man up for 20mins, and I thought the Smith YC was a tad harsh, but didn't take full advantage. Kicked the ball away numerous times in the NZ 22 when well and truely on top in the 3rd quarter. Kicked the penalty when the lineout maul had NZ at panic stations. Should have had the control to get the ball down for the Barrett hold up.

It felt like New Zealand got nearly everything right;
dream start on the scoreboard, used chips and grubbers to great effect, successfully targeted Porter in the scrum, made a mess of a pile of Irish lineouts, managed the ref's breakdown foibles really well, and crucially were clinical. It was a masterclass.  And yet, it was so close.

On such fine margins are this sort of game won and lost... Got to give Barrett immense credit for putting his body on the line like that, but really he shouldn't have had a chance,

dummy_half wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If there was a player I had the chance to issue a slap upon... I know what you're thinking but no it wouldn't be Sexton, or Biggar! It would be Reiko Ioane. His showboating and classlessness really irks me. I see he's done it again after the QF, and he's been caught doing it on several occasions in the past. Funny how he had a scared look on his face the entire time during previous matches NZ weren't winning!

Those two retiring leaves Farrell as most slapable player

Only because Itoje is too tall to give a slap to...

Are we all forgetting that Liam Williams exists?

carpet baboon wrote:

dummy_half wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If there was a player I had the chance to issue a slap upon... I know what you're thinking but no it wouldn't be Sexton, or Biggar! It would be Reiko Ioane. His showboating and classlessness really irks me. I see he's done it again after the QF, and he's been caught doing it on several occasions in the past. Funny how he had a scared look on his face the entire time during previous matches NZ weren't winning!

Those two retiring leaves Farrell as most slapable player

Only because Itoje is too tall to give a slap to...

Are we all forgetting that Liam Williams exists?

Ha I was thinking the same.

carpet baboon wrote:

dummy_half wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If there was a player I had the chance to issue a slap upon... I know what you're thinking but no it wouldn't be Sexton, or Biggar! It would be Reiko Ioane. His showboating and classlessness really irks me. I see he's done it again after the QF, and he's been caught doing it on several occasions in the past. Funny how he had a scared look on his face the entire time during previous matches NZ weren't winning!

Those two retiring leaves Farrell as most slapable player

Only because Itoje is too tall to give a slap to...

Are we all forgetting that Liam Williams exists?

Good point well made...

Collapse2005 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Would be surprised if you haven't read it yet, Collapse? I noticed Sexton replying angrily to someone, I didn't know who at the time but I've since read it. To still be doing it is pathetic, and I'm sure one of his (Ioane) own players would have had a word with him the first couple occasions! I don't think Sexton did anything during the game but it seems he was targeted.

His actions didn't impress the Irish Times' Gerry Thornley.

"Ioane, in a classless gesture, put his finger to his lips while looking at the Irish crowd, and then felt compelled to bid farewell to Sexton," the rugby correspondent, who was at the match, wrote.

Ioane also appeared to draw the ire of departing Ireland captain Johnny Sexton.

Didnt see it but dont really care that much. Stuff like that comes back to bite players which is why I didnt feel great about POM sledging Cane in the three test series, its just silly stuff really.

Even though we lost Ioanes behaviour might mean Ireland have been in the ABs heads a bit.

Saw on a pod cast there that after the game Brodie Retallick said to POM four more years you f'wit. I dont know if its true but I kind of laughed when I heard this as I hadnt quite appreciated until after the game how firmly rooted and encamped in Kiwi heads this Ireland side now is.

The loss still hurts of course but oddly I feel happy for Sam Cane and Ian Foster as they had copped awful amounts of stick but both made huge contributions. Cane also handled Poms clumsy words very well, so credit to him. Also feel very happy for and proud of Joe Schmidt, what a rugby man. Go Joe!!!

carpet baboon wrote:

dummy_half wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If there was a player I had the chance to issue a slap upon... I know what you're thinking but no it wouldn't be Sexton, or Biggar! It would be Reiko Ioane. His showboating and classlessness really irks me. I see he's done it again after the QF, and he's been caught doing it on several occasions in the past. Funny how he had a scared look on his face the entire time during previous matches NZ weren't winning!

Those two retiring leaves Farrell as most slapable player

Only because Itoje is too tall to give a slap to...

Are we all forgetting that Liam Williams exists?

That bloody 'calm down' double batwing wave he does all the time.

George Carlin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

dummy_half wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:If there was a player I had the chance to issue a slap upon... I know what you're thinking but no it wouldn't be Sexton, or Biggar! It would be Reiko Ioane. His showboating and classlessness really irks me. I see he's done it again after the QF, and he's been caught doing it on several occasions in the past. Funny how he had a scared look on his face the entire time during previous matches NZ weren't winning!

Those two retiring leaves Farrell as most slapable player

Only because Itoje is too tall to give a slap to...

Are we all forgetting that Liam Williams exists?

That bloody 'calm down' double batwing wave he does all the time.

Williams - absolute proof that skill at rugby and likeability are completely unrelated

Collapse2005 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Would be surprised if you haven't read it yet, Collapse? I noticed Sexton replying angrily to someone, I didn't know who at the time but I've since read it. To still be doing it is pathetic, and I'm sure one of his (Ioane) own players would have had a word with him the first couple occasions! I don't think Sexton did anything during the game but it seems he was targeted.

His actions didn't impress the Irish Times' Gerry Thornley.

"Ioane, in a classless gesture, put his finger to his lips while looking at the Irish crowd, and then felt compelled to bid farewell to Sexton," the rugby correspondent, who was at the match, wrote.

Ioane also appeared to draw the ire of departing Ireland captain Johnny Sexton.

Didnt see it but dont really care that much. Stuff like that comes back to bite players which is why I didnt feel great about POM sledging Cane in the three test series, its just silly stuff really.

Even though we lost Ioanes behaviour might mean Ireland have been in the ABs heads a bit.

Saw on a pod cast there that after the game Brodie Retallick said to POM four more years you f'wit. I dont know if its true but I kind of laughed when I heard this as I hadnt quite appreciated until after the game how firmly rooted and encamped in Kiwi heads this Ireland side now is.

The loss still hurts of course but oddly I feel happy for Sam Cane and Ian Foster as they had copped awful amounts of stick but both made huge contributions. Cane also handled Poms clumsy words very well, so credit to him. Also feel very happy for and proud of Joe Schmidt, what a rugby man. Go Joe!!!

They really took the previous losses to Ireland to heart. Not sure why, that's just sport sometimes. If anything it proves a lack of humility from the kiwi's. Obviously, they haven't experienced losing much in the past so since Foster they have been pretty bad at taking it. Brodie and POM seem a bit alike in that they like to try and get in your face but don't have anything to back it up, makes them look a bit daft. All Blacks are certainly reliant on having Brodie available if they want to get an edge up front though. Behind him and Scott Barrett the lock stocks are somewhat bare.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Would be surprised if you haven't read it yet, Collapse? I noticed Sexton replying angrily to someone, I didn't know who at the time but I've since read it. To still be doing it is pathetic, and I'm sure one of his (Ioane) own players would have had a word with him the first couple occasions! I don't think Sexton did anything during the game but it seems he was targeted.

His actions didn't impress the Irish Times' Gerry Thornley.

"Ioane, in a classless gesture, put his finger to his lips while looking at the Irish crowd, and then felt compelled to bid farewell to Sexton," the rugby correspondent, who was at the match, wrote.

Ioane also appeared to draw the ire of departing Ireland captain Johnny Sexton.

Didnt see it but dont really care that much. Stuff like that comes back to bite players which is why I didnt feel great about POM sledging Cane in the three test series, its just silly stuff really.

Even though we lost Ioanes behaviour might mean Ireland have been in the ABs heads a bit.

Saw on a pod cast there that after the game Brodie Retallick said to POM four more years you f'wit. I dont know if its true but I kind of laughed when I heard this as I hadnt quite appreciated until after the game how firmly rooted and encamped in Kiwi heads this Ireland side now is.

The loss still hurts of course but oddly I feel happy for Sam Cane and Ian Foster as they had copped awful amounts of stick but both made huge contributions. Cane also handled Poms clumsy words very well, so credit to him. Also feel very happy for and proud of Joe Schmidt, what a rugby man. Go Joe!!!

And you just sweep what POM said about Cane under the carpet? Rieko and Brodie gave it back and it resulted in some Irish tears, bunch of sooka bubbas. If anyone lacks class it’s POM for saying what he said and Sexton for not taking it on the chin like the chump that he is. But the biggest L goes to the Irish fans that cry foul and try to flip the narrative. Ungracious losers is what I see.

No I dont I always said what Pom said was stupid. You are particularly ungracious in victory. Its funny how much this Ireland side has got and is still in your head.

Collapse2005 wrote:No I dont I always said what Pom said was stupid. You are particularly ungracious in victory. Its funny how much this Ireland side has got and is still in your head.

When has NZ ever talked about a team they beat TWO rounds ago?

Just moving it out of the SA vs England game thread. You guys clearly have unresolved issues to work through so let’s go.