2nd QF Ireland v New Zealand - Stade de France, Saint Denis

First topic message reminder :

Ireland: Keenan, Hansen, Ringrose, Aki, Lowe; Sexton (capt), Gibson-Park; Porter, Sheehan, Furlong; Beirne, Henderson; O'Mahony, Van der Flier, Doris.

Replacements: Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Bealham, McCarthy, Conan, Murray, Crowley, O'Brien.

New Zealand: Beauden Barrett, Will Jordan, Rieko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, Leicester Fainga'anuku, Richie Mo'unga, Aaron Smith, Ardie Savea, Sam Cane (c), Shannon Frizell, Scott Barrett, Brodie Retallick, Tyrel Lomax, Codie Taylor, Ethan de Groot

Replacements: Dane Coles, Tamaiti Williams, Fletcher Newell, Samuel Whitelock, Dalton Papali'i, Finlay Christie, Damian McKenzie

Referee: Wayne Barnes TMO: Tom Foley

Assistant referees: Matthew Carley and Christophe Ridley

I have to say I'm less nervous about this match than I was about Scotland.
Not sure if that's a good thing or not.
O'Brien is a class operator and can cover 13 and the back 3.
And I like McCarthy he's a big lad with some pace about him.
I'm very excited

carpet baboon wrote:I have to say I'm less nervous about this match than I was about Scotland.
Not sure if that's a good thing or not.
O'Brien is a class operator and can cover 13 and the back 3.
And I like McCarthy he's a big lad with some pace about him.
I'm very excited

Worryingly I'm the same.
I was the living embodiment of anxiety. For this I'm equally well aware of the challenge that awaits the team, a challenge that will actually manifest itself this time.

The level of excitement is very, very, very high. My number one team (Ireland of course) v my number 2 team. I have as many AB tops as Ireland tops and my lad is named Christian for AB related reasons but I've never wanted them to fail so much.

Pete330v2 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:I have to say I'm less nervous about this match than I was about Scotland.
Not sure if that's a good thing or not.
O'Brien is a class operator and can cover 13 and the back 3.
And I like McCarthy he's a big lad with some pace about him.
I'm very excited

Worryingly I'm the same.
I was the living embodiment of anxiety. For this I'm equally well aware of the challenge that awaits the team, a challenge that will actually manifest itself this time.

The level of excitement is very, very, very high. My number one team (Ireland of course) v my number 2 team. I have as many AB tops as Ireland tops and my lad is named Christian for AB related reasons but I've never wanted them to fail so much.

I am the same too but part of it for me is I dont buy into the idea that Ireland will be chokers if they lose because I know NZ are a good side, I will be content of they go out but leave it all out there which I think this side will as they almost always have in their last 20-30 games. The fact that they are a better side than NZ though makes me think we will probably win.

The Kiwi press must be getting pretty desperate for positive momentum if this is the sort of article that they're running:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023-comparing-all-blacks-and-irelands-starkly-different-quarter-final-records/R7K2ES6E6FDXFL4OE3FF7PMCDE/

There is absolutely no logical basis to suggest that the performance of past Irish or ABs teams affects the mindset of the guys currently playing. This is a synthetic press construct designed to generate column inches and is absolute nonsense in real life.

This is the best Irish squad ever playing against an ABs side that absolutely nobody is calling a classic vintage. The players should know that literally nothing else matters apart from the players in this game at the weekend.

George Carlin wrote:The Kiwi press must be getting pretty desperate for positive momentum if this is the sort of article that they're running:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023-comparing-all-blacks-and-irelands-starkly-different-quarter-final-records/R7K2ES6E6FDXFL4OE3FF7PMCDE/

There is absolutely no logical basis to suggest that the performance of past Irish or ABs teams affects the mindset of the guys currently playing. This is a synthetic press construct designed to generate column inches and is absolute nonsense in real life.

This is the best Irish squad ever playing against an ABs side that absolutely nobody is calling a classic vintage. The players should know that literally nothing else matters apart from the players in this game at the weekend.

Yeah the NZ press with all matters Ireland team at this RWC tend to focus on two things in almost all articles I've seen, the three Kiwis in the team and Ireland's world cup record.

They almost never reference the four Tongan's in NZ's squad or their two Aussies etc. albeit to be fair there is plenty of reference to NZ's sketchy recent record v Ireland.

I dont think this Ireland side will be too concerned about thier RWC quarter final hex, they are too focussed and organised for it to mean too much in my view.

That article definitely stinks of desperation. There is no past statistics that will win the game on Saturday. There's no historical facts about the 2 teams that will add any points on the scoreboard. The 2 teams' record at the QF stage might be starkly different but this Ireland side is starkly different to any that has come before. They are focused, well drilled and don't look at past records for inspiration. Irelands journey to get here has been much tougher and from what we saw last weekend they look to be peaking just at the right time.

There's a boost to my confidence for Saturday.

I do think your enthusiasm should be tempered by how utterly appalling Scotland were. My fellow countrymen stood and watched whilst Lowe scored in the corner with barely a minute on the clock. Turned down 2 eminently kickable penalties to instead provide you with a decent defensive session by shuffling the ball aimlessly between themselves before coughing it up after 18 phases.

We were totally clueless, toothless and inept until the game was over as a contest. At that point we managed a couple of nice tries once you had emptied the bench.

A spineless and embarrassing performance that sadly cost you the services of James Ryan when Scott Cummings accidently rolled onto the open palm of his hand.

I'm sorry that we were little us in prepping you for the challenge that lies ahead.

I think a lot will be decided in the front row. If Lomax isn't playing your chances on winning increase substantially, as their 2nd choice 3 is a poor scrummager.

However with Frizell, Retallik and Jordie Barrett back in, and on form, they have way more weapons to hurt you than they could hurt France.

A lot of Ireland's chances will hang on whether Hansen is actually match fit. Obrien is a great, and promising young player, but I wouldn't want him to play a large chunk of the match at wing or 13 against the AB's.

Rumour that Telea is out.

carpet baboon wrote:Rumour that Telea is out.

When are the ABs announcing their team? Cant see it advertised.

sensisball wrote:I do think your enthusiasm should be tempered by how utterly appalling Scotland were. My fellow countrymen stood and watched whilst Lowe scored in the corner with barely a minute on the clock. Turned down 2 eminently kickable penalties to instead provide you with a decent defensive session by shuffling the ball aimlessly between themselves before coughing it up after 18 phases.

We were totally clueless, toothless and inept until the game was over as a contest. At that point we managed a couple of nice tries once you had emptied the bench.

A spineless and embarrassing performance that sadly cost you the services of James Ryan when Scott Cummings accidently rolled onto the open palm of his hand.

I'm sorry that we were little us in prepping you for the challenge that lies ahead.

I think a lot will be decided in the front row. If Lomax isn't playing your chances on winning increase substantially, as their 2nd choice 3 is a poor scrummager.

However with Frizell, Retallik and Jordie Barrett back in, and on form, they have way more weapons to hurt you than they could hurt France.

A lot of Ireland's chances will hang on whether Hansen is actually match fit. Obrien is a great, and promising young player, but I wouldn't want him to play a large chunk of the match at wing or 13 against the AB's.

I think Frizzel will be huge for them however, I dont really rate Retallick. The guy has too many miles on the clock and cant remember him putting a string of good performances together in a long time. Do you mean Scott Barrett? He is their best 2nd row but a bit of a penalty risk so we will see.

Think I saw that they (ABs) were announcing the team tomorrow (Friday).

Too much is made of the Ireland quarter final hex. In 2011, 2015 and 2019 we just weren't good enough on the day. The 2019 team were definitely on a downward slide. This time the preparation seems good and the results in tournament have been good. Does that mean we will win against the Blackness? Not necessarily, but it does give us a better than even chance in my view.

Looking forward to another glorious evening on in the Stade de France on Saturday.

Agreed Unclear, the match is between 2 sides who are closely matched & if they played each other 10 times, could well come out with 5 wins each.

1 Ethan De Groot
2 Codie Taylor
3 Tyrel Lomax
4 Brodie Retallick
5 Scott Barrett
6 Shannon Frizell
7 Sam Cane (C)
8 Ardie Savea

9 Aaron Smith
10 Richie Mo'unga
11 Leicester Fainga'Anuku
12 Jordie Barrett
13 Rieko Ioane
14 Will Jordan
15 Bauden Barrett

Bench

16 Dane Coles
17 Tamaiti Williams
18 Fletcher Newell
19 Samuel Whitelock
20 Dalton Papal’i
21 Finlay Christie
22 Damian McKenzie
23 Anton Lienert-Brown

Aparently Telea was dropped for breaking a curfew, kind of surprised Roigard and Samisoni didnt make the bench.

A lot of kiwis don't rate Christie so am very surprised that Roigard isn't on the bench.

Lomax and DeGroot I don't think will be fully up to speed for this test so we can get after their scrum. And as good as he is in attack Rieko has some defensive issues so can see us hitting the 13 channel.

And just my opinion but I think Cane weakens the backrow .

Its going to be a tough game but I think we will win this by 10+

Ireland team is announced - Ryan being kept out for next week along with Henshaw and McCloskey, Byrne, Casey, Herring and O'Toole.

Seems to be a sensible precaution.

Pot Hale wrote:Ireland team is announced - Ryan being kept out for next week along with Henshaw and McCloskey, Byrne, Casey, Herring and O'Toole.

Seems to be a sensible precaution.

As long as Ireland have a next week, it is.

Heaf wrote:NZ aren't particularly keen on him either

Nah we’ve gotten over the fact that he was raw, nervous etc. besides it was the SA touchie Kaplan that failed to call the pass despite Richie looking straight at him on the missed tackle.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ireland just seem like such a well settled and well balanced team. New Zealand seem like a number of very talented individuals in the same side, Foster has juggled them round to get the best of them into that side but they don't seem like a coherent team. Not like they were in 2015. There's still an awful lot of talent in that team though. Should be a good game though Ireland will be favourites for good reason.

If there’s a single reason NZ will win this tomorrow it’s because an All Black side is being told all week they’re gonna lose. The worst underdogs in any sport you want to be facing is an AB si being told that.

carpet baboon wrote:A lot of kiwis don't rate Christie so am very surprised that Roigard isn't on the bench.

Lomax and DeGroot I don't think will be fully up to speed for this test so we can get after their scrum. And as good as he is in attack Rieko has some defensive issues so can see us hitting the 13 channel.

And just my opinion but I think Cane weakens the backrow .

Its going to be a tough game but I think we will win this by 10+

Foster says he’s there for his defence. Roigards running might be critical at 80 minutes yet we go for a defensive 9 to come on after Smithy.
Makes no sense. Our back row should be Savea, Frizell and Papalii. Or Jacobsen at 8 and Savea and Frizell on the flanks. To not have a ball carrying or wide roving 7 is anti All Black so if Cane doesn’t top the tackle count no point him being there.

Collapse2005 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:The Kiwi press must be getting pretty desperate for positive momentum if this is the sort of article that they're running:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023-comparing-all-blacks-and-irelands-starkly-different-quarter-final-records/R7K2ES6E6FDXFL4OE3FF7PMCDE/

There is absolutely no logical basis to suggest that the performance of past Irish or ABs teams affects the mindset of the guys currently playing. This is a synthetic press construct designed to generate column inches and is absolute nonsense in real life.

This is the best Irish squad ever playing against an ABs side that absolutely nobody is calling a classic vintage. The players should know that literally nothing else matters apart from the players in this game at the weekend.

Yeah the NZ press with all matters Ireland team at this RWC tend to focus on two things in almost all articles I've seen, the three Kiwis in the team and Ireland's world cup record.

They almost never reference the four Tongan's in NZ's squad or their two Aussies etc. albeit to be fair there is plenty of reference to NZ's sketchy recent record v Ireland.

I dont think this Ireland side will be too concerned about thier RWC quarter final hex, they are too focussed and organised for it to mean too much in my view.

So which four Tongans and two aussies were not born in NZ and come through the NZ system?
Aki and Lowe were specifically targeted for Irish cubs because of their potential to play for Ireland in three years. We knew this before they left.
We don’t have bought players in that respect. All three will return home after their Irish careers.

Taukei'aho came to live here here at 15.
That’s comparable to James Low who was seasoned chiefs near AB selection?.
Give me a break.
We’ve got a whole bunch of 15 year olds who want to play. Don’t see Ireland taking them on.

dummy_half wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

eirebilly_01 wrote:I do not see Ireland as favourites myself, even if ranked number 1. The AB's still remain the team that I fear the most and they also have RWC pedigree which Ireland do not. Not saying that I do not think Ireland cant win because they can its just that I feel the AB's favourites.

I dont see it. Too much is made of history and pressure. Ireland has too much experience, form and momentum for that to be a factor.

Of course NZ can beat Ireland and it wouldn't be a shock by any means as both sides are fairly evenly matched, form and recent head to head though justifiably makes Ireland marginal favorites.

This Ireland team, at least most of them, have played a few games against the ABs and had success - won the last 2 and 5 of the last 8 back to 2016. They are a team in form and that know how to win - I don't think an historic lack of success in RWC knock-out games will weigh heavy on their minds this weeken.

Now, of course the ABs might win - there's not a huge amount between the teams, but I would probably go about 60-40 towards Ireland at the moment.

I do think the Ireland team is one built very much to win now, not with too much of an eye to the future, much like the England 2003 team - whether they succeed or not remains to be seen, but they've certainly in with a chance.

Having seen the ABs go on runs of up to 21 twice in years gone by believe it or not one of the hardest things to shake is complacency. Even if it is the ABs here.
The value in winning 17 straight robs a side of an ability to improve in the same way a loss can. Ireland can’t and won’t change a lot, because it’s a winning formula. They’ll tweak here and there. Whereas the ABs will be digging from the deepest chasms of despair, resolve and revenge. And it’s something they do historically better than anyone.

That said I think this current AB side sucks and it will take a Herculean effort to win tomorrow.
But I wouldn’t have any other side to do that other than an AB side being told all week they’re going to lose.

Very gutted for Wales but now its on to the big one.

Ireland are the best that i have ever seen them in my lifetime but those pesky AB's will be up for this.

Heart says Ireland by 10
Head says AB's by 10

Heart and head says Ireland will do very well against NZ.

I'm willing to be wrong in a couple of hours, but as good as this NZ team is, I just think Ireland are better.

If NZ win they will have to play the best rugby they have all year, and I just can't see us letting them.

Ireland by 12

50/50 call this one

History means nothing. Ireland never made it out the Q/F historically as they met a better team. This time round I’d say Ireland are the better team.

NZ seem to have found their mojo though. The loss bs France seemed to kick them into gear.

As good ‘ol JR used to say. This one’s gonna be a slobberknocker

Ireland's record in World Cup QFs v Wayne Barnes refereeing NZ in a World Cup QF.

Tough one.

Well nil out of 1. To continue it. Nz by 5.

carpet baboon wrote:I'm willing to be wrong in a couple of hours, but as good as this NZ team is, I just think Ireland are better.

If NZ win they will have to play the best rugby they have all year, and I just can't see us letting them.

Ireland by 12

Agree with this but equally wouldnt be surprised by almost any outcome. Two very good sides.

eirebilly_01 wrote:Very gutted for Wales but now its on to the big one.

Ireland are the best that i have ever seen them in my lifetime but those pesky AB's will be up for this.

Heart says Ireland by 10
Head says AB's by 10

Youre a bag of nerves

Not sure I have enough rum to get me through the game. Luckily I have several good bottles of red

With Lowe and Hansen fit I fancy Ireland to win this. I think they are the more physical team and their systems are of course fantastic.

Pre tournament my one prediction was that I thought the two teams that progressed from pool B would lose their respective QFs due to the wear of that pool. With Scotland underperforming and Tonga being largely poor I'm not sure that's the case though.

Coupled with that, Ireland have been even better than previously. I've loved how they've developed under Farrell. Things like launching first phase moves off kick return rather than set-piece are brilliant. Basically a means of creating set-piece attacking chances without a set-piece. Cut out the middle man. Ireland are just incredible at things like that now. Not only do they maximise attacking opportunities, but they've maximised the way they can manufacture those opportunities in a low risk manner. Truly one of the most interesting teams I've seen tactically.

Ryan is a big loss but Sheehan is back to start compared to the team that beat the Boks in one of the most engrossing rugby matches I've watched. Aki is having the tournament of his life as well which should be significant given NZ are the only one of the standout 4 teams in this tournament without a monster inside centre.

I expect NZ to fire more than a few shots mind. Schmidt is another brilliant coach when it comes to identifying and coaching attacking patterns. He's one of the next most influential in that regard after Wayne Smith. The ABs setup now with basically a backline of playmakers is lethal when it clicks. I just fancy Ireland to have too much physically and have a lower error count though.

This should be a cracker. The most excited I've been for a rugby match since... The Ireland vs Boks game. Which to be fair was the most excited I'd been in yonks.

Enjoy all! 

Wow wee. The cardinal sin of singing over the haha enabled.

Why did Ireland form up in the shape of two giant boobs?

Wow. New Zealand with two duff kicks and two duff passes in the space of 2 mins

A litany of errors to start. Porter's penalty was clear and uncharacteristic of Ireland. Then Smith, one of the best passing SHs we've seen, fluffs two passes. Along with two dire kicks.

Looked tough on Porter live that but I think he does bore in first.

I'm not sure if immediately going for the cross field with the advantage was a ploy there for NZ we'll see again or just a last resort with them going nowhere despite keeping possession. Ireland's tackle completion and discipline there was exceptional.

Calling BS on that pen, made an effort to roll but being pinned. Onesided refereeing so far. Should have been a pen for a neck roll.

tigertattie wrote:Why did Ireland form up in the shape of two giant boobs?

Paging Dr Freud...

Great tp see Retallick back. Such a good player.

Ireland need to up their accuracy if they want to win this. The teams are closely matched, but NZ are winning the fine margins..

Close to a forward pass at the end.

That's the game. Congratulations NZ.

Ireland are being so stupid. They don’t look ready for the game. They aren’t even putting up a proper fight

13-0 after 20 mins. Game over already. Calling it now.

Seemingly not checked.

So uncharacteristic for Ireland to be slow to support when carrying. Usually their ruck retention and ruck speed is incredible. NZ clearly trying to use other players to tackle so Savea and Cane are on their feet to jackal.

Oh my. What a try from nowhere. Beauden showing the combination of his vision, pace and skill there.

Is that final pass forward though?

Beautiful try. NZ just that bit sharper in the key areas and have missed fewer tackles.

Still three quarters of the game left, but 0-13 is a mountain against the All Blacks.

That's not the first time tonight that NZ have looked very disorganised receiving restarts. It is the first time it's cost them though. Even the first kick they were saved by Retallick covering a space that shouldn't be unattended.

Right call to get on the board for me.

Pass back inside looked very forward to me

Ireland giving away pens left right and centre which isn’t like them. As the wise old man said, the team that gives away fewest penalties tends to win the scoreboard