Ulster 2023/2024 Season

First topic message reminder :

For the good, the bad and the ugly of Ulster rugby this season. Lets hope mostly good.

I also read over the weekend that Gareth Steenson is returning home to Northern Ireland to pursue opportunities here. Now that could very well mean he's returning back here where I am in Armagh to coach his home team. It could mean he's looking at a coaching ticket under Ritchie Murphy at Ulster or somewhere in between. Either way it's interesting.

Pete330v2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Deegan is staying with Leinster!

He must have had his agent bluffing again for a few extra Euro.

Given the choice of picking the bench splinters out of your hole for the rest of your career or moving and being a leader of men and the first name on the team sheet I know what most players would choose.
Being part of the wider Leinster set up is obviously a pull to anyone but if you're a professional rugby player surely you want to be playing rugby. Fair play the lad but I'd have liked to see what he could have done in white.

I saw some comments he made about renewing where he said if you can start for Leinster you'll start for Ireland. Which is true but he's a squad man and now in the middle of his prime years. It's very odd. You'd have thought being the starter of Ulster and playing in the bigger games during the season would be a draw.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Deegan is staying with Leinster!

He must have had his agent bluffing again for a few extra Euro.

Given the choice of picking the bench splinters out of your hole for the rest of your career or moving and being a leader of men and the first name on the team sheet I know what most players would choose.
Being part of the wider Leinster set up is obviously a pull to anyone but if you're a professional rugby player surely you want to be playing rugby. Fair play the lad but I'd have liked to see what he could have done in white.

I saw some comments he made about renewing where he said if you can start for Leinster you'll start for Ireland. Which is true but he's a squad man and now in the middle of his prime years. It's very odd. You'd have thought being the starter of Ulster and playing in the bigger games during the season would be a draw.

He did say that a few years ago, but is behind, Conan, Doris, Baird, and soon to be Culhane for 6/8, think if he wants to be getting in Ireland team needs to be getting games.

I suspect that he didn't move due to the Irish tax incentive, whereby he can claim back 40% of tax paid over his 10 best years in Ireland upon retirement. As you mention he's in his prime and hence prob on his best contract the one that will make up the best of those 10 years, however if he moved to Ulster those years wouldnt count on the tax return.

Provinces can't outbid each other, but the Leinster contract comes with a tax return that the Ulster one doesn't have, so is in effect higher.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Deegan is staying with Leinster!

He must have had his agent bluffing again for a few extra Euro.

Given the choice of picking the bench splinters out of your hole for the rest of your career or moving and being a leader of men and the first name on the team sheet I know what most players would choose.
Being part of the wider Leinster set up is obviously a pull to anyone but if you're a professional rugby player surely you want to be playing rugby. Fair play the lad but I'd have liked to see what he could have done in white.

I saw some comments he made about renewing where he said if you can start for Leinster you'll start for Ireland. Which is true but he's a squad man and now in the middle of his prime years. It's very odd. You'd have thought being the starter of Ulster and playing in the bigger games during the season would be a draw.

He said it - its nonsense
He is 4th choice 6/8 for Leinster he would would be first choice 8 for Ulster.

If true how does he explain that Timoney, Prendergast and Coombes were all ahead of him for World Cup selections based on the extended squad Farrell picked.
He is a much better player than Coombes and a better 8 than Timoney and Prendergast.

clivemcl wrote:Has Timoney got no relationship with any of these lads? Or is it in fact, that he has a negative relationship?

He surely came up along with a few of the other Leinster backrowers.
Like somebody said though, it's only 1.5hrs up the road - you can't imagine it would be THAT drastic a move in terms of family/friends etc.

Any other Leinster back row out of contract? Maybe he's staying because they know somebody else is away, even if not up to Ulster.

Timoney has no relationship, to speak off, with the Leinster lads - he never made the Academy.
Timoney is, by all accounts, a very personable character.
The backrowers who are ahead of him - Doris, Baird, Conan, DeFlier, Connors are going nowhere.

Lets lay this myth of Leinster contracted player moving North.
The only player  who has moved north when still under contract was Jordi Murphy and he pushed for it because he wanted to play first XV rugby.
Not one of the other player who have moved north were under contract when they joined Ulster.

Im not holding my breath when it comes to Bryne or Frawley.

I suspect if there is a potential move for an Irish 10, it is on hold until it is known for sure if Ulster are in Champions Cup next year.

Well at LH looks like Ed Byrne isnt coming, hes signed for Cardiff

Pete330v2 wrote:I also read over the weekend that Gareth Steenson is returning home to Northern Ireland to pursue opportunities here. Now that could very well mean he's returning back here where I am in Armagh to coach his home team. It could mean he's looking at a coaching ticket under Ritchie Murphy at Ulster or somewhere in between. Either way it's interesting.

Read that too, is listed as senior coach at Exeter, but doesn't seam to have a specialist role. My guess is would prob make kicking coach while assisting the academy.

Kingshu wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I also read over the weekend that Gareth Steenson is returning home to Northern Ireland to pursue opportunities here. Now that could very well mean he's returning back here where I am in Armagh to coach his home team. It could mean he's looking at a coaching ticket under Ritchie Murphy at Ulster or somewhere in between. Either way it's interesting.

Read that too, is listed as senior coach at Exeter, but doesn't seam to have a specialist role. My guess is would prob make kicking coach while assisting the academy.

There's no noted attack coach for Chiefs. I suspect he assists that with Ali Hepher, looks after the kicking and has some development pathway role. I'm sure he used to do some coaching at a league 2 side as well. Wouldn't be surprised if he was seen down at Exeter Uni as well as that's a regular source of Chiefs players.

Smart guy, would be good to bring him in particularly if you are looking at having some young flyhalfs for next season.

Ryan Pienaer has made it quite clear Ulster is where he wants to be, and the same goes for his wife.

He is retiring and going into coaching.
He says he needs to earn his strips with the Cheetahs first.

Watch this space.

Not Ulster chat, but some of you may find it interesting to know that Coleraine Grammar (formerly Coleraine Inst), for the first time in a long time, have decided to invest in their rugby and get a director of rugby.

I'm hearing that the man getting the job is Kieran Campbell.

Hoping to see Coleraine return to the mix of the top teams in the schools cup again in years to come.


(EDIT: and for the first time (since I've usually nothing interesting to report), I'm acutely aware that out of all of us, my username probably doxxes myself! )

(But I'm fairly sure I'm ok to share this information - a few different people have said they knew too, but not been publicly announced yet)

Looks like a 2 year contract for Murphy

geoff999rugby wrote:Looks like a 2 year contract for Murphy

With our luck lately it'll be announced that he has signed onto the Leinster coaching team

It'll be extremely positive to have some stability. I'm sure it's difficult to entice players to a side that has no head coach, no definite vision of the way forward. With Ritchie in place perhaps, just perhaps we might turn a fwe heads in our direction. Fingers firmly crossed.

As I suspected Ulster do not have a backup for Fly half - McFarland has left us in the lurch

Ross Bryne, Harry Bryne, Ciaran Frawley and Sam Prendergast will all be Leinster players next year.

So... I guess McFarland had more faith on Doak than anyone else did, and since Murphy has come in, they are suddenly scrambling to pick up a 35yr old Cruden or similar?

Cruden ain't coming.

My take is McFarland was told to make some cutbacks.
In his wisdomstupidity he decided that one of the changes was to get rid of our only credible 10
because he could turn Doak into a 10.
Murphy faced with an injured Burns decided he might as well see for himself if Doak had what it takes.
Both Murphy and Doak came to the conclusion it was a non starter.
Ulster left screwed by a departing idiot.

At that point Kitshoff, who never settled, was happy to go back to South Africa with the contract torn up by mutual consent.
From Ulsters point of view it released some funds.

Now, as is ALWAYS, the case a number of Leinster players would rather be in the 3rd XV than Ulsters 1st XV so we are scrabbling round for a 1 and a 10.
Fortunately we may only have one NIQ next year - Kok (Ewers uncertain)
so I think needs must and the IRFU simple have to allow us to sign a couple of mid range NIQ player to fill the gaps next year.

If they dont we won't be able to fulfill fixtures next year
At prop we only have Warwick, O'Sullivan (if he signs), Reid who have ever played for the 1st XV at LH.
that is not enough - only 3 LH's and the quality isn't great.

With Flannery our only 10 we will get slaughtered.

Team up
Ulster: Mike Lowry; Ethan McIlroy, Will Addison, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale; Billy Burns, John Cooney; Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Scott Wilson, Kieran Treadwell, Alan O’Connor (capt), Cormac Izuchukwu, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Andrew Warwick, James French, Harry Sheridan, Reuben Crothers, Nathan Doak, Stewart Moore, Dave Ewers.

Never seen Izzy play 6 before. Surprised considering 2 blind sides on the bench. Also not fussed on 6 -2 split considering how injury prone Burns and Addison are.

Treadwell has also dabbled at 6 in the past.

It's an interesting selection, mirroring 2 weeks ago. A heavily rotated pack but with the strongest possible backline (maybe Baloucoune? is he injured?).

I'm assuming Lowry is our replacement 10 if Doak is expected to come on at 9.

As mentioned on the other forum French at tighthead is a concern but I'm guessing Warwick could sub in their in an emergency.

Sheridan does deserve a rest.

O'Sullivan starting again suggests he's back in vogue. Shocking man management that he's been allowed to rot in the reserves. A perfectly functional and reliable URC-level player.

Playing 3 locks suggests that a) they want to get the most of O'Connor while he's still there and b) they also recognise Izzy needs gametime ahead of next season.

Maine man wrote:Team up
Ulster: Mike Lowry; Ethan McIlroy, Will Addison, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale; Billy Burns, John Cooney; Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Scott Wilson, Kieran Treadwell, Alan O’Connor (capt), Cormac Izuchukwu, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Andrew Warwick, James French, Harry Sheridan, Reuben Crothers, Nathan Doak, Stewart Moore, Dave Ewers.

Never seen Izzy play 6 before. Surprised considering 2 blind sides on the bench. Also not fussed on 6 -2 split considering how injury prone Burns and Addison are.

Agreed on 6/2 given Moore is known to have hamstring issues. Great player though.

Cussler now reporting that Ulster are in talks with Gurricanes Irish Qualified Aidan Morgan.
22 years old with as much game time as Flannery. Not what we need but it is Fissler who is on form with the reports so far

I think we are scrabbling round for any professional 10, who has two legs, and is IQ
Bit like we were at TH last year with McGrath, French and Griffen.
That didn't work out but fortunately Wilson saved the day.

Lets be honest offering a full contract to a school kid (Gabriel) smacks of desperation

Izzy staring but overall this is not confortable.
We are under resourcing the breakdown and Scarlets are getting away with a fair bit.

Maybe not any more - 2 clear Yellow cards.

Do the Ulster team have money on a Scarletts win?
Unlucky with 3 efforts being held up, but we are still giving the ball away very easily. And are tackling is again woeful

Izzy has really flourished since McFarland has gone
O’Sullivan has returned since McFarland has gone
Cooney has a smile on his face since McFarland has gone
Baloucoune has put in his best performances since McFarland has gone
Stockdale has put in his best performances since McFarland has gone

I wonder why that is

Warwick at tighthead for a scrum on 76 mins.

Murphy confirmed until 2026. Happy with that

Addison and Ewers away by all accounts

With these two leaving we currently only have 4 players in next years squad not born in Ireland.
Kok, Reffell, Treadwell, Herring.

1NIQ
0 Residency qualified
3 qualified by parentage

Struggling to remember when it has been that low in the past.

That's got to be comparable to any other province now, if not better?

The argument always was - non-irish, even if IQ were blocking the pathways for home born. I've always to an extent believed if the home-born or good enough, they'll force themselves into a side.

We've seen it with McCann, Sheridan and Wilson etc.

But ultimately, an Ulster side with no overseas signings isn't itself a good thing, unless the home-grown become top class - and across the whole squad.

And ultimately, many of our home grown have flattered to deceive. Let's hope that was a McFarland thing, and Murphy can take a more Ireland-centric (if not Ulster centric) Ulster to the highest levels without relying on too many outside signings.

clivemcl wrote:That's got to be comparable to any other province now, if not better?

.

I think you will find that we have a signifcantly lower number of non Irish born players than any other Provinces

clivemcl wrote:That's got to be comparable to any other province now, if not better?

The argument always was - non-irish, even if IQ were blocking the pathways for home born. I've always to an extent believed if the home-born or good enough, they'll force themselves into a side.

We've seen it with McCann, Sheridan and Wilson etc.

But ultimately, an Ulster side with no overseas signings isn't itself a good thing, unless the home-grown become top class - and across the whole squad.

And ultimately, many of our home grown have flattered to deceive. Let's hope that was a McFarland thing, and Murphy can take a more Ireland-centric (if not Ulster centric) Ulster to the highest levels without relying on too many outside signings.

No overseas signings is almost certainly a bad thing. The downside of holding back 1 player in 1 position is usually dwarfed by the wider benefits.

Pienaar, as an example, made the rest of the Ulster team better. He made Trimble better. He made Best better. He made everyone better because he ensured we went further both in the league and Europe and that everyone was exposed to a higher level of competition.

That's not even mentioning the mentoring, skills and coaching he offered.

NIQs absolutely can add to improving teams beyond just the first XV. There is a sweet spot, a golden ratio of NIQs that each of the Irish teams should target.

Henderson out for rest of season and Ireland tour.

True re Pienaer but he was exceptional.

Financially we have no chance of getting anyone half as good as him; at least for the forseeable future.
We are feeling the pinch as are many teams.

Rumoured new Academy players next year

Bryn Ward(Backrow)
James McKillop(Backrow)
Logan Clark(Scrumhalf)
Jack Murphy(Outhalf)
Wilhelm De Klerk(Outhalf-Centre)
Sam Berman(Centre)
Johnny Scott (Centre)

Morgan has joined

geoff999rugby wrote:Morgan has joined

Have you heard something, Geoff? Or have you been caught out by a tweet from "@notUlsterRugby"?

Morgan is starting for the Hurricanes on Friday if anyone wants to see what he's like.

Don Alfonso wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Morgan has joined

Have you heard something, Geoff? Or have you been caught out by a tweet from "@notUlsterRugby"?

2nd hand so could be the ex-player who told me was fooled

Never use Twitter/X myself

Just to clarify the Academy and Addison/Ewers post come from a reliable source and the latter has
been posted by KOTH on UAFC, who I would consider reliable.

Cant trust these ex-players

geoff999rugby wrote:Just to clarify the Academy and Addison/Ewers post come from a reliable source and the latter has
been posted by KOTH on UAFC, who I would consider reliable.

Cant trust these ex-players

Ha! Anyway -

Supporters will have the opportunity to say a fond farewell to the Senior Men’s players confirmed today by the club as this season’s leavers:

Luke Marshall (166 – retired)

Billy Burns (111)

Greg Jones (44)

Will Addison (41)

Angus Curtis (25 – retired)

Steven Kitshoff (14)

Dave Ewers (14)

James French (4)

Shea O’Brien (1)

So looks like EOS is staying then, which in light of recent performance is good news

geoff999rugby wrote:Addison and Ewers away by all accounts

With these two leaving we currently only have 4 players in next years squad not born in Ireland.
Kok, Reffell, Treadwell, Herring.

1NIQ
0 Residency qualified
3 qualified by parentage

Struggling to remember when it has been that low in the past.

Cormac Izuchukwu

As Irish as Jordi Murphy and Ronan O'Gara, but I take your point - not born in Ireland.

Isn't it ironic that the year Addison plays his most matches, 15 I believe, he's let go. Cruel run of injuries. I genuinely believe he was seen as Kearneys replacement before Keenan burst on to the scene. Simple fact is 41 games in 6 years is a poor return.

Kingshu wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Addison and Ewers away by all accounts

With these two leaving we currently only have 4 players in next years squad not born in Ireland.
Kok, Reffell, Treadwell, Herring.

1NIQ
0 Residency qualified
3 qualified by parentage

Struggling to remember when it has been that low in the past.

Cormac Izuchukwu

Good spot.
He has been here since 7 and I had forgotten.

I am convince that but for the change of coach EOS and AOC would not be with us next year.
I also strongly suspect Burns and possibly Addison would have stayed as well if they had not already made alternative plans.

At least Ewers and Addison leaving so credibility not completely shot to pieces

Part of me would love for us to just get this Morgan fella and for him to turn out class. U20 New Zealand kinda suggests he could be on a par with the Byrnes, Frawley and Prendergast.

How much would you love for the foreigner we are left with no choice to sign, to come in and ultimately keep them out of an Ireland squad.

My preferences:

1. Ulster born player
2. Irish born player
3. Sticking two fingers up to Leinster any chance we get
4. Irish qualified foreigner
5. NIQ player

Strange looking, and unbalanced, squad.
Only considering player who have has 1st XV action.

Only 3 props either side
Well covered at hooker.
Only 4 Locks
Plenty of backrowers

4 SHs but only 1 FH
Only 4 centres - Postlewaite, McCloskey, Moore, Hume ( out for the start of the season)
Back three - Stockdale, Baloucoune, Lowry, McIlroy, Moxham, Sexton, Kok

Moxham listed as a centre but not for me.
I consider him and Sexton as poor.
So with Hume injured that’s 3 centres and 5 decent back three players.

Overall very thin
Only Hooker, Backrow and SH adequately covered.

Edited to include Kok

Definitely need another centre. Forgotten how light we are there with Addison going and Hume injured. Moore's injury record of late hasn't been the best either.

I think we can assume Stu goes to South Africa in the summer. So we could realistically start the season with just Jude and Moore available as centers.
Stockdale to 13???? Not sure that would work.
De Klerk and Bremman next ones I guess ( have they signed?)
Could be interesting