England's Winter of Cricket 2023/24

First topic message reminder :

After the disappointment of the World Cup, can England be the first away team in 11 years to win a test series in India?

Three ODIs v West Indies (3rd December-9th December)
Five T20s v West Indies (12th December-21st December)
Five Tests v India (25th January-11th March)

alfie wrote:Yes , here comes the short ball barrage...keep it on the ground lads , OK ? Singles will do.

Must be why India have picked Siraj , eh , KP_fan ?

Now it feels like Lords as you alluded to earlier, alfie. Men all over the leg side. Both batters taking on the pull. So far it's along the deck but a tiny bit of variable bounce and it could be an unnecessary wicket.

The pitch is that little bit two paced. It's turning but nothing drastic. Bumrah hasn't been up to his fluent best. It's pretty good for batting out there and the platform is excellent.

Concussion test now as Pope wears one on the helmet. He doesn't get into great positions when taking on the short ball. The likes of Brook, YJB and Stokes being aggressive against a bouncer ploy doesn't concern me as much given they hook well. There's a better risk vs reward. Pope's back leg dragging round to the off side as he swings off his feet isn't such a confidence inspiring picture.

There is no way that was hitting like that - that's ridiculous

India get a bit lucky with the drs...nearly didn't take that review , looked like it was going down I thought...but clipping leg stump and Pope is on his way. Wouldn't even have bowled that ball if he hadn't overstepped earlier in the over . Small margins...

Big break for India at 182/2

alfie wrote:Yes , here comes the short ball barrage...keep it on the ground lads , OK ? Singles will do.

Must be why India have picked Siraj , eh , KP_fan ?

will take it

Pope just gone on review. I honestly didn't think that would get overturned. Umpires call at best was my thought. Pope was completely stuck on the crease when the fuller one came though. Thrusting forward with a big gap between bat and ball. It looked more like several dismissals Pope had earlier in his career.

182-2

It's still a position England would have taken. They really need Root to still be there tomorrow though.

You think there's something wrong with Hawkeye , Olly ? Bit like Crawley's one in the last match , eh ? Our eyes getting deceived somehow ...he was so far forward , I was sure it must have gone over and wide...

alfie wrote:You think there's something wrong with Hawkeye , Olly ?  Bit like Crawley's one in the last match , eh ? Our eyes getting deceived somehow ...he was so far forward , I was sure it must have gone over and wide...

I am stunned - I thought it would be lucky to be an umpires call on both height and direction...that it was hitting is ridiculous. I think Mr Stokes will have something to say about that

Pope's pretty short and on the shot that showed it missing the edge, I thought the ball was already shallowing out, so to speak. I.e. it wasn't climbing steeply despite the length. A bit like the Stokes delivery that got Smith in the Ashes. It hit Smith high, but was already at or very near its peak height. My thought was sliding down rather than over.

There's always the issue of that camera behind the bowlers arm often not being perfectly behind the stumps as well. If it's off line by a tiny amount, that makes judging line as a spectator more difficult. Looking at the shots from this Siraj over in fact, it even looks slightly askew!

I'm surprised that Bumrah isn't on straight away here. Only a few overs until close with England's best batter in.

Look you have to trust the technology...and I am not one to nurse crazy theories. But honestly I was shocked to see that come up red. Cannot see how that ball wasn't moving far enough after striking the pad , given the distance to the stumps. I presume the boffins can demonstrate why it was absolutely correct ; but has left me shaking my head in bewilderment...

Bumrah back now. Good move by Rohit as we near the close of play.

Yes think you may have a point about the TV camera alignment , KC. Have wondered that myself sometimes. Best explanation anyway

Nice Root cover drive to end the day...after Duckett escapes another review a couple of balls before.

Terrific innings from Duckett . And congrats to Ashwin on his 500th

207/2 so England will think they've done well so far in response to that imposing 445. What will tomorrow bring ?

Not gonna lie, I didn't have pitching outside leg on my mind for that one, I thought Duckett was a goner there.

Root drives an Ashwin full toss for 4 to finish the day.

207-2 from 35 overs

That sets tomorrow up very nicely. India are still ahead given runs on the board and England having to bat last on a pitch that will deteriorate.

It gives England a very good platform though.

Bumrah wasn't at his best but he was just getting it to reverse in his final over. Whether that continues tomorrow morning and whether Bumrah is at his best to capitalise may once again be critical.

A very engaging final session to watch though.

176-2 in that final session for England - a superb innings from Duckett, and a shame Pope was out to, my eye at least, a questionable DRS LBW...when he was batting lovely too.

Still India on top in the game - 238 runs behind is still a lot, and really England to have a shot in the game are going to need a decent sized lead too.
Think Root owes the team some runs, both form wise on tour but also with the drop and bowling performance in his first innings! Hopefully tomorrow is his day.

Pivotal day in the series coming up - moving day, as I believe Mr Bat, would define it

Well, Bazball showed up fairly well this evening - 207 runs in 35 overs and only 2 wickets (one of which surprisingly given on review). Obviously England have a LONG way to go to get ahead of the game, probably need to get to about 600 to establish a solid lead to offset the difficulty of batting last. Basically means batting for all of tomorrow.

Put the game about level at the moment - If you'd told both India and England at the toss that India would get about 450 first up, both would have said OK, even if India arrived at this by a rather unanticipated path; England will be somewhat unhappy that from 30-3 they couldn't keep India in check, but on the flip side their batting this evening has swung the momentum back to them somewhat.

Big first session tomorrow - if England can get going again, they can build a strong position, but lose 2 or 3 wickets and they'll be a bit behind the 8 ball

Excellent century from Duckett. Like I said, he's been making starts but not kicking on recently. Until today!

Sets England up decently, but still a very long way to go. Hopefully Root can conjure up an overdue century. They need at least 300 more from this position to get ahead of the game, and if India break this partnership early tomorrow, there's a vulnerability to the rest of the batting order from 5 down.

Pitch hasn't broken up yet, but once the deterioration arrives, it could be a rapid decline. England have got to get their runs in this innings. Chasing anything more than 200 will likely be difficult, unless it stays docile all the way through (doubt).

So England bazballed their way to 207-2 at nearly a run a ball. The pitch is flat, not much for the spinners, Bumrah not finding reverse for most of that innings in his latter 2 spells though that last over from him was promising. Root still there and Stokes is yet to come. Before all that, India will have to get through the run-away express of Ben Duckett. I'll be very surprised if England won't attain parity and even a possible first innings lead. Don't see a massive collapse on this pitch yet. So India's best case scenario shaping up to be a 2nd innings shootout.

Earlier, Ravindra Jadeja did what I feared, he is got a thing with overnight resumption I tell you! Can't complain too much when the man scored a largely solid hundred that rescued the team... Think Jadeja will have to play a few more shots first up when he restarts. Might then be able to settle back to a rhythm...
Impressive little innings on debut from Dhruv Jurel, surely better than anything KS Bharat managed so far in his test career. Jurel had his share of luck it has to be said though.
Ashwin chipped in with an important contribution with the bat, before taking his 500th test wicket.
Really nice hand from Jasprit Bumrah. All of his top 5 test scores have come against England!!

Think more than the spinners, it'll have to be Bumrah who will have to bring India back into the game tomorrow. The pitch is slow, the turn is minimal and slow. Not much else for the spinner to work with. India's best case scenario from now on, seems bowling England out for around 400, get a 30 40 lead, and then bat well and bat big in the 2nd innings. Hopefully, we'll have some life in the pitch by then.
England would be hoping to bat once, go pass 600, then hope for scoreboard pressure to do the job on this fragile and inexperienced Indian batting lineup.

As game stands now win or defeat is far away but it's England's to blow away without taking a middish lead.
They should be disappointed if they don't get 50+ lead.
Which to me would mean still balance as they have to bat last.
But they would have stunned India and will be mentally with an upper hand.

How we got here is my same old.rant.
Bold cricket and strong leadership
Vs timid leadership clichéd template and suboptimal selections .

If I was Eng I would play proper cricket tomm to ensure 8 wkts in hand deliver 300 runs min
In bazballing lies rhe risk of being shot out quickly.

Ind need to simply put sweepers to cut out all sweeps and they would stand a good chamce to choke Eng
If Bumrah finds rhythm it would be a bonus.
The game has makings of a final inning chase humdinger

Ashwins had to pull out with a family emergency, hoping the best for him

This series is cursed.

But a pretty big swing in England's favour.

Debilitating blow for India as Ravichandran Ashwin is forced to withdraw from the game due to a medical emergency with his mother.
This is a massive set back for India, can't see them bowling England out for less than 500 now.

msp83 wrote:Debilitating blow for India as Ravichandran Ashwin is forced to withdraw from the game due to a medical emergency with his mother.
This is a massive set back for India, can't see them bowling England out for less than 500 now.

Is he out for the entire test match?

In any-case Indian team has to put Ashwin out of their mind and play at their best.....
They have 2 quality spinners and 2 seamers...if needed Sarfarz should be the one to practise in nets tomm morning
He cana bowl leg break and has 70 FC overs and 5 wickets under his belt.

Real blow for India with Ashwin pulling out - and we all hope his family emergency can be resolved in the best way possible.

I really didn't mean to curse him when I invoked comparisons with Lord's 2023 and speculated on him being sidelined like Lyon halfway through the England innings ! But I suppose that comparison is even more apt and means England really need to make sure they don't give up wickets too easily against a somewhat weakened Indian attack today.

I am presuming no one is going to get run out in peculiar circumstances in this match

The good thing for India , even down one bowler , is that England score so fast they aren't likely to be kept in the field for some enormous number of overs - only bowled 35 so far - hence the strain on the others won't be as much as can be the case in these situations. Which might count in the second innings.

Way too early to think about that though. Moving day (guildford patent stamp ) is upon us soon and promises to be another enthralling part of a series that has already given plenty...

Why did Root do that
And what was he doing

Joe Root can't take a trick with the bat here...looked very much in control ; then for some reason felt compelled to reverse scoop Bumrah.

Didn't get hold of it ; sharp take at slip. The early break India wanted. 234/3

Why did Bairatow review it
It was only.hiting middle of middle

Hi KP_fan...I don't know why Root does that either. Not suggesting he should abandon the shot : but you'd think he'd not really need to play it so early in the day - when (a) runs were ticking over anyway ; and (b) Bumrah was already well into his morning spell and couldn't bowl forever .

Now Bairstow is trapped lbw ...review won't save him. Suddenly England are 225/4 and game is turned on its head.

alfie wrote:Hi KP_fan...I don't know why Root does that either.  Not suggesting he should abandon the shot : but you'd think he'd not really need to play it so early in the day - when (a) runs were ticking over anyway ; and (b) Bumrah was already well into his morning spell and couldn't bowl forever .

Now Bairstow is trapped lbw ...review won't save him. Suddenly England are 225/4 and game is turned on its head.

Good morning alfie.
Root is one of the best all time batters ,so successful in subcontinent and it saddens me to see him fall like he has in last two innings
Hacking , hoikimg and funky shots type bazballing is for limited players who would otherwise struggle with an average of 30.
Root juts needs to play his normal game

Plus I think too much bowling is taking a toll on focus as a top order batter

Cant say I'm shocked at these events. Whenever England get on top in a game they seem to find ways to make things hard for themselves.

I know you can't embrace the full on attack method without copping the odd wicket being tossed away from nowhere , so seems unreasonable to complain when things like this happen. But Root has now got himself out several times cheaply in this series by going arguably too hard too early : in contrast to his previous record in India. Can't help thinking that with Duckett being Duckett , what was needed from Root was his usual busy strike rotation rather than funky stuff - at least until he was totally "in".

And of course once one wicket falls the chance of a new batsman falling cheaply is always there. Kuldeep is bowling well this morning so Stokes is under pressure immediately - though slow starts are his general method these days anyway.

150 for Duckett

England need him to keep going now...

Kuldeep in thr midst of a very good spell
Looks like taking a wicket anytime

By the way , KP_fan , I don't know why Bairstow reviewed that lbw either ! Didn't look like he was going to initially ; so I have no idea how the conversation with Duckett left him deciding to chance it. Real Shane Watson referall

This has been a great hour for India - nearly even better with Duckett being dropped off his own reverse scoop ! Very tough chance that one , of course ...and Duckett can play whatever he likes after the rubs he's made in this knock. Unlike Root ...

At least England have avoided the follow on

but now Duckett has hit a harmless ball to cover and it is all falling apart... This really is taking the same course as Lord's : 260/5.

And kuldeep gets another one
A mirror image of Patidar dismissal

Foakes totally not reading Kuldeep...Neither is Stokes reading him completely.

Wonderful innings by Duckett anyway

He will be furious with himself for getting out then though. Had got a bit bogged down recently so an errant shot was possible , I guess. Certainly wasn't Kuldeep's best ball ; but he's bowled a lot of good ones today so earned it.

Kuldeep so nearly had Foakes then in similar manner to Bairstow : but just umpires call on impact and neither given on field nor reviewed. Looks dangerous to the right handers at present...

Stokes not taking a backward step. Picked the opportunities to score well so far. Would like him to keep Foakes away from Kuldeep for a while , if possible. These two have had some good partnerships in the past ... Could really do with another one now.

Even Jurel is not reading Kuldeep

Kuldeep certainly getting much more out of the surface than yesterday. Not surprised the keeper is having his hands full with some of those that beat the bat. Glad to see Foakes using his feet in defence against him - he looked certain to get pinned any moment when staying back in his crease initially.

Still no Jadeja today. Thought he might have a couple before lunch but it's been all Pace and Kuldeep...

That's a big wicket
Stokes never looked in

Looking a tough task for England now to get up around that Indian total. Ball is doing a lot more for the spinners now - though it is still hardly a minefield. Stokes obviously has to play his aggressive game and hope fortune favours him , while Foakes will look to keep safe at the other end and just score when offered. Ball 63 overs old now so not much there for the seamers - which means a lot of work for Kuldeep and Jadeja. Judging by this morning's play , they might be happy enough with that...

Online debate over Root and his dismissal continues : I am pleased to see BBC so far getting reasonable comment rather than the old knee jerk condemnation. There is certainly an argument each way : the point that has me a little critical is that England had added 27 in about twenty minutes without any wild excesses so the timing was a little questionable...

History now. As is Stokes ...caught at long on off Jadeja . And at 299/6 England are probably dead in the water...though we've said that before

Worse and Worse as Foakes chips tamely to mid on...Siraj with another wicket to read KP_fan's faith

299/7.

Foakes too never looked in.
I think removing Kuldep who bamboozled them, relaxed them a bit

Repay his faith , of course. Damn spellchecker

Stokes just got under it a bit. He was always going to go after those ... I actually thought he was playing pretty well for the most part. Have to credit India's bowlers today : looked shell shocked last night ; but have been disciplined and persistent today and earned the rewards. Getting Root early on was key , of course. But who knows ? Even if he hadn't got out the way he did we may still have seen them work their way through the lineup today as batting has looked considerably trickier.

Hartley and Rehan will play their shots too of course and try to get as close as they can : but it's still 141 at the moment and with England having to bat last this has the look of "the three hours that decided the match"

Siraj on fire bowled a Bumrah like Yorker
Silences his critics
Rehan has the technique of a tailender, as he backs away from the line of ball towards leg side

Hartley on the contrary gets behind line of ball and has an excellent usage of feet to spinners

Well someone jinxed Hartley
Sorry

England fans will be waking up to grim news as Hartley follows charging and missing...easy stumping. 314/9. Ouch.