Champions Cup; and the other one if someone wants to comment

First topic message reminder :

Couldn't see another thread on a quick look so sorry if I've missed it.

This weeks fixtures as follows (lifted from the beeb):

Friday
POOL 1
Connacht v Bordeaux Bègles
20:00

POOL 3
Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints
20:00

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
POOL 3
ASM Clermont Auvergne v Edinburgh
20:00

....Guernsey vs Bury St Edmonds as well which is a biggy

Saturday
POOL 1
Bulls v Saracens
17:30

Bristol v Lyon
20:00

POOL 2
Bath v Ulster
15:15

Toulouse v Cardiff Rugby
15:15

POOL 3
Toulon v Exeter Chiefs
13:00

Munster v Bayonne
17:30

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
POOL 1
Zebre v Cheetahs
13:00

Sharks v Pau
15:15

Dragons v Oyonnax
20:00

POOL 2
Ospreys v Benetton
17:30

POOL 3
Black Lion v Gloucester
13:00

Castres v Scarlets
15:15

Sunday
POOL 2
Racing 92 v Harlequins
17:30

POOL 4
Sale v Stade Francais
13:00

La Rochelle v Leinster
15:15

Leicester Tigers v Stormers
15:15

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
POOL 2
Perpignan v Lions
13:00

Newcastle Falcons vMontpellier
15:15

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:They didnt release details except that they did say it was for a significant increase from the TNT deal and stated clubs would gain from this.  

Well at least that is a positive, along with not having to listen to TNTs awful commentary and punditry. I am worried about sponsorship as viewership will no doubt take a big hit.

Compared to Sky, TNT was a massive uplift in quality. If they could let Dayglo go they'd improve things dramatically mind. Adding Warburton, Kayseri and BOD for the European games over recent seasons was good.

I don't think I've seen anything on Premier Sports previously. I imagine that a proportion of the English fan base simply won't watch the European games if there's any real effort involved in taking on another subscription. Right now I might be in that proportion especially when I see the following when googling presenters

"The Investec Champions Cup and EPCR Challenge Cup will be at the heart of this new offering, led by key rugby personalities including Stephen Ferris, John Barclay, Tom Shanklin and Ryan Wilson."

That's a bargain bin effort.

I couldn't disagree anymore and I know for a fact that TNTs coverage is not well received here in Ireland. Even BOD has gone from Ireland's darling to being absolutely despised (as a pundit) even in Leinster circles, which is quite astonishing.

Sky had their issues but they were incredibly neutral with their commentary and punditry (imo) and did a fantastic job marketing and putting the European weeks front and center.

I don't know a fan in England who didn't rejoice at Sky losing the rugby coverage. Minimum effort, maximum waffle. Obviously as a Tigers fan I remember it mainly for Stuart Barnes openly routing for the opposition every time we played.

Well the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Sky and the ERC made the Heineken cup the greatest club comp in rugby, while the EPCR and TNT (BT) brought it to its knees. Worrying times ahead for European rugby.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:They didnt release details except that they did say it was for a significant increase from the TNT deal and stated clubs would gain from this.  

Well at least that is a positive, along with not having to listen to TNTs awful commentary and punditry. I am worried about sponsorship as viewership will no doubt take a big hit.

Compared to Sky, TNT was a massive uplift in quality. If they could let Dayglo go they'd improve things dramatically mind. Adding Warburton, Kayseri and BOD for the European games over recent seasons was good.

I don't think I've seen anything on Premier Sports previously. I imagine that a proportion of the English fan base simply won't watch the European games if there's any real effort involved in taking on another subscription. Right now I might be in that proportion especially when I see the following when googling presenters

"The Investec Champions Cup and EPCR Challenge Cup will be at the heart of this new offering, led by key rugby personalities including Stephen Ferris, John Barclay, Tom Shanklin and Ryan Wilson."

That's a bargain bin effort.

I couldn't disagree anymore and I know for a fact that TNTs coverage is not well received here in Ireland. Even BOD has gone from Ireland's darling to being absolutely despised (as a pundit) even in Leinster circles, which is quite astonishing.

Sky had their issues but they were incredibly neutral with their commentary and punditry (imo) and did a fantastic job marketing and putting the European weeks front and center.

I don't know a fan in England who didn't rejoice at Sky losing the rugby coverage. Minimum effort, maximum waffle. Obviously as a Tigers fan I remember it mainly for Stuart Barnes openly routing for the opposition every time we played.

Well the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Sky and the ERC made the Heineken cup the greatest club comp in rugby, while the EPCR and TNT (BT) brought it to its knees. Worrying times ahead for European rugby.

dribble. Sky the made the least of out of a fabulous competition, coverage played second fiddle to football and listening to Barnes and co was painful.

Initial adjustments to the European Cup (removing the easy pools) improved things greatly with iirc BT Sports enjoying those years, far more games being covered for a start. It's only the last revision of the tournament where it's gone dramatically down hill and that is in no small part to the URC trying to patch up the flagging interest in its competition by inviting in the South African teams. Now we're left with the two tier, only play each team once farce. Possibly why the competition is now worth less in the eyes of broadcasters.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:They didnt release details except that they did say it was for a significant increase from the TNT deal and stated clubs would gain from this.  

Well at least that is a positive, along with not having to listen to TNTs awful commentary and punditry. I am worried about sponsorship as viewership will no doubt take a big hit.

Compared to Sky, TNT was a massive uplift in quality. If they could let Dayglo go they'd improve things dramatically mind. Adding Warburton, Kayseri and BOD for the European games over recent seasons was good.

I don't think I've seen anything on Premier Sports previously. I imagine that a proportion of the English fan base simply won't watch the European games if there's any real effort involved in taking on another subscription. Right now I might be in that proportion especially when I see the following when googling presenters

"The Investec Champions Cup and EPCR Challenge Cup will be at the heart of this new offering, led by key rugby personalities including Stephen Ferris, John Barclay, Tom Shanklin and Ryan Wilson."

That's a bargain bin effort.

I couldn't disagree anymore and I know for a fact that TNTs coverage is not well received here in Ireland. Even BOD has gone from Ireland's darling to being absolutely despised (as a pundit) even in Leinster circles, which is quite astonishing.

Sky had their issues but they were incredibly neutral with their commentary and punditry (imo) and did a fantastic job marketing and putting the European weeks front and center.

I don't know a fan in England who didn't rejoice at Sky losing the rugby coverage. Minimum effort, maximum waffle. Obviously as a Tigers fan I remember it mainly for Stuart Barnes openly routing for the opposition every time we played.

Well the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Sky and the ERC made the Heineken cup the greatest club comp in rugby, while the EPCR and TNT (BT) brought it to its knees. Worrying times ahead for European rugby.

dribble. Sky the made the least of out of a fabulous competition, coverage played second fiddle to football and listening to Barnes and co was painful.

Initial adjustments to the European Cup (removing the easy pools) improved things greatly with iirc BT Sports enjoying those years, far more games being covered for a start. It's only the last revision of the tournament where it's gone dramatically down hill and that is in no small part to the URC trying to patch up the flagging interest in its competition by inviting in the South African teams. Now we're left with the two tier, only play each team once farce. Possibly why the competition is now worth less in the eyes of broadcasters.

Laughing emoji with an insult classy...

The EPCR has been nothing but a disaster. Even before they destroyed the pool stages, they took away the draw for the semi finals in a home neutral venue, leading to teams getting a guaranteed home run to the final... which has lead to an even greater imbalance between the top teams and the rest (away knockout wins are incredibly rare).

It's also laughable that the EPCR were given credit for bringing in the Black Lions when the ERC had tier 2 clubs from around Europe since it's inception. The EPCR set t2 club rugby back years and is credited for single handedly destorying professional rugby in Germany for not allowing Heidelberg entry to the CC (despite the fact they Qualified through the EPCRs OWN QUALIFYING TOURNAMENT). Come on, how were alarm bells not ringing after that embarrassment.

It must of just been a coincidence that the competition was at its peak under the ERC and Sky.

The Heidelberg one was a bit of a odd one.  Basically they got rejected because Wild owned stakes in both them and Stade Francais.  The rule was 1 owner couldn't own 2 clubs because of match fixing which I understand in terms of general sport.

But technically the IRFU own their 4 provinces as do the SRU.  So by that logic Ireland or Scotland shouldnt be allowed into the tournament either which obviously would never be applied so I'm sure the rule was probably tweaked to make one ok but not the other.  

For me Europe does have a lot of issues.  I'd argue at this point England weaken both the Champions Cup and Challenge Cup as teams are qualifying for 1 and they only enter 2 now in the other.  Basically the challenge cup is 50% URC rugby entrants at this point so you may as well just scrap the damn thing as nobody ever takes it seriously until the final rounds.

The Champions Cup is mostly a crap tournament because instead of looking at it from a pure fans point of view they allowed the clubs too much input instead.  Honestly for me Champions Cup rugby should be just the best teams.  Id prefer the Top 6 from the Top 14, Top 6 from URC and Top 4 from the Premiership.  That would be a 16 team format where you could have 4 pools of 4.  Play 6 Pool games with top 2 going through to a last 8.  But the French won't compromise now as they really don't want added games.  At some point I can see the French really not caring about this at all as I could see a future where they scrap it to expand the Top14 instead.  

Basically I do agree Europe as a concept could be on its last legs at this point.  I maintain letting the tournament not be managed by the Irish was a massive mistake and that was the beginning of the end....

Sorry I would also have scrapped the challenge cup as well.....that competition must cost teams a ton in travel expenses and the revenue it generates can barely be adequate for the teams in it.  

I'd rather the URC expand its own league into other countries to develop the game because I do think the EPCR does virtually nothing to develop rugby outside of the traditional nations.

URC rugby can take a great bit of credit for Italy's improvement since they had a pro league to play in. Its helped them a lot in terms of stepping up to international rugby. Having Pro club sides and giving them meaningful games is the only way to introduce rugby into new nations and the Challenge Cup doesnt offer them enough matches in a year. Realistically those teams need to be part of full time club tournaments.

Welshmushroom wrote:The Heidelberg one was a bit of a odd one.  Basically they got rejected because Wild owned stakes in both them and Stade Francais.  The rule was 1 owner couldn't own 2 clubs because of match fixing which I understand in terms of general sport.

But technically the IRFU own their 4 provinces as do the SRU.  So by that logic Ireland or Scotland shouldnt be allowed into the tournament either which obviously would never be applied so I'm sure the rule was probably tweaked to make one ok but not the other.  

For me Europe does have a lot of issues.  I'd argue at this point England weaken both the Champions Cup and Challenge Cup as teams are qualifying for 1 and they only enter 2 now in the other.  Basically the challenge cup is 50% URC rugby entrants at this point so you may as well just scrap the damn thing as nobody ever takes it seriously until the final rounds.

The Champions Cup is mostly a crap tournament because instead of looking at it from a pure fans point of view they allowed the clubs too much input instead.  Honestly for me Champions Cup rugby should be just the best teams.  Id prefer the Top 6 from the Top 14, Top 6 from URC and Top 4 from the Premiership.  That would be a 16 team format where you could have 4 pools of 4.  Play 6 Pool games with top 2 going through to a last 8.  But the French won't compromise now as they really don't want added games.  At some point I can see the French really not caring about this at all as I could see a future where they scrap it to expand the Top14 instead.  

Basically I do agree Europe as a concept could be on its last legs at this point.  I maintain letting the tournament not be managed by the Irish was a massive mistake and that was the beginning of the end....

I'm well aware of the Wild situation and like you allude to it makes zero sense when you look at the provinces ownership.

I don't think the competition should've been managed by the Irish, it should be managed by the unions, like it was with the ERC. I can't believe anyone thought it was a good idea for the club's to take control of this once great competition.

Up to now I've begrudged paying to watch sport as doesn't seem value for money as if I only want to watch premiership rugby but not football seems have to pay for it anyway.

Is there a way to only have a subscription for the rugby? Does anyone know? Also, how much is everyone paying to watch the Gallagher Prem?

Thanks.

Well i think the TNT packages are £20.99 and £35 for the premium although I have no idea what the difference here is. But you are right most of your sub money is paying for their football rights.

and no you cant pick and choose which would be nice to be able to do. But if you did that they couldnt charge you as much for the package and their costs. So that will never happen.

Basically in my opinion for Rugby to really develop it needs a TV provider that will make the sport central to their platform. Obviously that would never happen with Sky or TNT. But it might for platforms like Premier Sports.

OK thanks Welshmushroom. That I assume is per month.