England - The Next Episode

First topic message reminder :

The next stage of development....progression or failure....who can tell.

king_carlos wrote:Whilst I'd be surprised if Joe Shaw (Sarries head coach) and Kevin Sorrell (backs coach) don't go onto international coaching. Having McCall there for such a long time has created a useful little nursery for English coaches!

Joe Shaw being the best head coach no one seems to have heard of. The transformation of the Sarries game from Shaw and Sorrell after losing the final to Tigers was staggering. If Shaw isn't on the list of coaches to offer development opportunities to with thoughts over long term international opportunities then the RFU pathway is failing.

There's a number of very promising young English DORs and head coaches with Skivington, Vesty, Shaw, Sorrell, Dowson, Hepher etc which does in a way put some pressure on Borthwick because the RFU don't need to necessarily throw big money at Andy Farrell (though a successful Lions Tour and then World Cup will pretty much allow him to pick any job he wants). Wigglesworth and Felix Jones are seeing their stocks rise as assistants and might fancy the big job themselves.

Borthwick likes goal setting so I suspect whilst he thinks he can keep developing England he'll want to remain in post. As soon as that ceases to be the case then he'll probably be off.

He'll leave in 2027 as 6n grand slam champions and World Champions

Geordie wrote:He'll leave in 2027 as 6n grand slam champions and World Champions

Due to talking on Lions commitments ahead of 2029.

Correct Sam...ready for a winning series...

In Feyi Waboso England have a top class player already who could go on to be something very special. His power to weight ratio must be very high...and he is elusive yet also able to make yards in heavy traffic. Quite rare.

He looks similar to Jason Robinson in one regards...his speed strength is 0-40m rather than being a 100m runner like say LRZwas...

Borthwick is ging to have some very good options to pick from...for the NZ tour, it's going to be very interesting to see who he selects...if there's much change form the 6n squad.

Geordie wrote:In Feyi Waboso England have a top class player already who could go on to be something very special. His power to weight ratio must be very high...and he is elusive yet also able to make yards in heavy traffic. Quite rare.

He looks similar to Jason Robinson in one regards...his speed strength is 0-40m  rather than being a 100m runner like say LRZwas...

Borthwick is ging to have some very good options to pick from...for the NZ tour, it's going to be very interesting to see who he selects...if there's much change form the 6n squad.

There's a lot of exciting talent but not a lot of experience. Getting them capped, bedded in and evolving the England team around them is going to be a challenge. Be interesting to see how we approach this particularly tough summer tour.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:In Feyi Waboso England have a top class player already who could go on to be something very special. His power to weight ratio must be very high...and he is elusive yet also able to make yards in heavy traffic. Quite rare.

He looks similar to Jason Robinson in one regards...his speed strength is 0-40m  rather than being a 100m runner like say LRZwas...

Borthwick is ging to have some very good options to pick from...for the NZ tour, it's going to be very interesting to see who he selects...if there's much change form the 6n squad.

There's a lot of exciting talent but not a lot of experience. Getting them capped, bedded in and evolving the England team around them is going to be a challenge. Be interesting to see how we approach this particularly tough summer tour.

I agree, and I think this is real important.  Start exposing the younger players now, perhaps now just one at a time, and see what they have.  Instead of repeating the mistakes of the last four years. Slight different combinations, too.

There's only one way you build experience Sam...they need games.

I can't forsee many changes to the squad from the 6n to the summer tour. Only anything enforced through retirement or injury. Not sure there's any key positions where the kids are ready...a year or so away from that..

So a team / squad that finished the 6n strongly should continue to build/ learn further in the tactics etc......

Geordie wrote:There's only one way you build experience Sam...they need games.

I can't forsee many changes to the squad from the 6n to the summer tour. Only anything enforced through retirement or injury. Not sure there's any key positions where the kids are ready...a year or so away from that..

So a team / squad that finished the 6n strongly should continue to build/ learn further in the tactics etc......

Yeah, but no, but yeah, but....
I think one of the things we learned in this past Six Nations is that we don't know our preferred players in every position.  So, perhaps a couple of uncapped players should get a shot.  Bed them in slowly, carefully, but by evolution as opposed to revolution.  So in three years from now, there is a strong base of players from which the core of the team will have developed from. But to your point, most of the rest of the squad are not so experienced, so need to do a bit of everything, all at once.

By the way, just relaxing with a pint or two watching the replay of Exeter-Bath.  Just need to say IFW is really good.

There's a lot of young players in the team already to be fair. They haven't been afraid to blood new players that they consider good enough.

The back three of Furbank, IFW and Freeman had less than 20 caps between them. Finn Smith was blooded during a Six Nations. Marcus is still only 25.

Martin and Chessum are still young for second rows. Same with Theo Dan in the front row and CCS for an international back row. Caelan Doris was a similarly impressive talent at 8 but didn't get his Ireland debut until he was 2 years older than CCS.

JvP and hopefully Quirke returning to the touring squad would add yet another two youngsters whilst strengthening the squad in the present as well. It would be great to have Mitchell in the squad with those two after the huge strides he's made in their absence. It's his shirt to lose.

The only position where the age profile is any worry would be tighthead. It's not like there's obvious talents being ignored though. It's just a barer position talent wise. Sinckler changed as a player after the back injuries, Coley is aging out, whilst Stuart and Heyes have both stalled. Though I did rate Stuart's impact sub role in the Six Nations.

I'm hoping for a lot of continuity from the Six Nations.

If CCS is fit then I'd be curious to see him starting with Earl at 7. If he doesn't make it, which sadly seems more likely, then I'd be tempted to keep Earl at 8 and perhaps use Barbeary or Pearson from the bench in the role CCS had during the Six Nations.

CCS is due back in the next week or so, so with a bit of luck should be in the mix for the end of the season.
On a related note, Jack Kenningham is back running in training and has apparently used his injury layoff to bulk up so he can be a more effective ball carrier. Probably won’t play til next season, but if he can stay fit he is a very complete back row option who doesn’t have any real weaknesses in his game.

Geordie wrote:There's only one way you build experience Sam...they need games.

I can't forsee many changes to the squad from the 6n to the summer tour. Only anything enforced through retirement or injury. Not sure there's any key positions where the kids are ready...a year or so away from that..

So a team / squad that finished the 6n strongly should continue to build/ learn further in the tactics etc......

As KC has we have been getting them game time. Slowly but surely. Experience goes a long way at international level where you need to be able to read the game and bring the right level of pragmatism.

Borthwick capped CCS, Dingwall, F Smith and IFW this 6N. The young talent is being given chance.

I'd expect a few but not many changes from the 6N. Scrum half will obviously see some serious change and I'd be surprised if there wasn't one or two changes for the backrow as there's talent breaking through there.

I think the areas SB will be looking at are

Critical areas
3 - Tighthead
9 - Scrum half

Areas to work on
678 - Getting the right balance using all the talent
1213 - Lawrence and Slade worked well...but what other options might he have
15 - Is SB going to use Furbank (or another playmaker) and Steward for alternative options for different tactics and oppositions? Aside from being used as a crash ball option has Steward offered anything Furbank didn't?

9s pretty easy to sort, it'll be Mitchell plus another. Randall in form. Quirke is he gets game time and impresses.

Tighthead issue, as I said before get new players in for summer/AIs and see how they go in the less meaningful games so they have some Int experience for 6N and on.

Backrow is one area of real strength for Eng. Lot of really good options. Ted Hill impressed yesterday for example.

Centres as ever problem area but Lawrence is shoo-in at 12 in leiu of anyone else so far. I'd like to see Ojomoh on summer tour. 13 more options and Freeman is one to explore.

As for 15, that could well depend on who Borthwick plays at 10 as we know he likes Smith at 15 as a sub. Steward an interesting one seeing as he didn't even make 23 in 6N.

At least there are options these days and unlike under Eddie it does seem that Borthwick prepared to use them.

I will be most interested to see what he does with the front row for the summer tour. New Zealand is a pretty daunting place to go for a newly capped player, but for a prop it's arguably a better opponent to face than South Africa, France or Argentina.
I would be surprised if Marler wants the travel, so it could be we see some very different front row options taken.

Geordie wrote:Aside from being used as a crash ball option has Steward offered anything Furbank didn't?

He's way better in the air, both offensively and defensively to the point the opposition won't tend to kick to compete if he's playing. He'd have been a better option off the bench Vs France than Manu as we could have used him in the second half when France had us pegged back in our half as a means to get up field.

Currently he's going to find himself a horse's for courses selection or impact sub unless he adds significantly to his game. He's got a massive boot on him but lacks the precision and variation to really test international opposition and his passing is fine for a strike runner but he needs to get his head up and develop his range if he's going to realistically compete as a playmaker. It's not beyond him but he will need to put in the hours, might not be a bad idea for him to reach out to Leicester local Geordan Murphy for some coaching in those areas, Murphy was a magician at the back.

Poorfour wrote:I will be most interested to see what he does with the front row for the summer tour. New Zealand is a pretty daunting place to go for a newly capped player, but for a prop it's arguably a better opponent to face than South Africa, France or Argentina.
I would be surprised if Marler wants the travel, so it could be we see some very different front row options taken.

Marler was on the Aussie rugby podcast saying he's available for international rugby up to the Lions though he thinks he's got no chance of selection. He's hoping to tour in the summer and play in the AIs but knows his time is almost up. It's the Koko show, his section is very funny for anyone who wants to go and see it.

mountain man wrote:9s pretty easy to sort, it'll be Mitchell plus another. Randall in form. Quirke is he gets game time and impresses.

It'll be JvP as Mitchell's understudy. Randall hasn't got the kicking game for international rugby. Quirke is likely the third choice option maybe higher if he can oust Warr from the 9 shirt. Didn't see the game yesterday but otherwise JvP has returned in good form and he's got a good all round game with a big boot.

JvP better play better than he has before then for England bar Aus series. However, this has been covered before so I guess we wait and see who gets picked and what form they are in.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Geordie wrote:Aside from being used as a crash ball option has Steward offered anything Furbank didn't?

He's way better in the air, both offensively and defensively to the point the opposition won't tend to kick to compete if he's playing. He'd have been a better option off the bench Vs France than Manu as we could have used him in the second half when France had us pegged back in our half as a means to get up field.

Currently he's going to find himself a horse's for courses selection or impact sub unless he adds significantly to his game. He's got a massive boot on him but lacks the precision and variation to really test international opposition and his passing is fine for a strike runner but he needs to get his head up and develop his range if he's going to realistically compete as a playmaker. It's not beyond him but he will need to put in the hours, might not be a bad idea for him to reach out to Leicester local Geordan Murphy for some coaching in those areas, Murphy was a magician at the back.

I would have thought he would have had to be involved already?  Kind of a no brainer to leverage one of the best all around ball players in recent memory at 15!

As far as one can read the tea leaves (or if it floats your boats, read the chicken entrails), we can see Borthwick favouring (for now) an attacker at fullback.  Furbank is that for sure and is doing very well.  But Borthwick has also put Marcus Smith back there as well.  He will never be Steward's equivalent under the high ball, but brings a whole different array of attacking talent, and defensively is neither afraid of contact or without skill tackling.  Smith worries me a bit there, but he has seemed comfortable and I don't recall any defensive howlers.  

As we have said before, Steward is good running a straight line with room to accelerate in addition to his most obvious strength under kicks which is amongst the best in Europe.  We all know he needs to broaden his skill set.  I'm completely sure Tigers have already
been working with him.  It ain't rocket science to see a very good player with skills, and to help him/her improve and help make them better.  Give him some time and I am sure we will see a more rounded player, which is coming from a pretty high bar already.

Leinster did kick to Steward yesterday despite being on the wing and he was fine.  By the way, since you didn't see the game Sam, my thought Leinster were just that much better in almost every position.  Tigers were fighting to the last, but the gap between Leinster and Tigers was clear to see.  Unfortunately Leinster do this to most teams, and I think someone said it almost appeared Leinster still had a few gears to get through.

SH isn't a concern for me at all. I think Mitchell, JvP and Quirke are three fantastic talents to have in the same position at once.

I really like the prospect of Marcus as a Beauden Barrett type 15 longer term. He looks far better as a playmaker with that bit of extra time. Which club rugby allows from 10 but international defences generally shut down. Having him as that secondary playmaker either on a short side or in the boot works with his strengths and pace excellently.

I think it would help England a lot with bench selection and varying tactics during the game if Steward could cover centre and Furbank cover wing. It's difficult to get both in the same 23 at the moment. Unless you used Furbank to cover 10, which I wouldn't. Furbank has the pace to cover wing at international level and Steward has the physicality to play centre. It would open up having both in the 23, at which point they can vary tactics midmatch. The ABs are brilliant at that. Being able to move Beauden to 10, bring DMcK on, move Jordie around 11-15, have Ioane shift to wing to bring ALB on, etc. It gives their backline such fluidity depending on what's happening in a match.

Will Marchant be available? I'm pretty sure he'll be in the squad if he is...

Poorfour wrote:CCS is due back in the next week or so, so with a bit of luck should be in the mix for the end of the season.

That's great news. He was excellent from the bench across the Six Nations. I still think his conditioning has a way to go as a starter. The Japan game would be an ideal place to try him starting though.

I'd love to see that game used to give some of the less established players time alongside starters. I really don't like making lots of changes for one game such as the Japan one as you generally learn little IMO. Starting Theo Dan alongside Genge and Cole or CCS alongside Earl and Underhill tells you so much more about those newer players. I really dislike seeing wholesale changes such as Baxter/Dan/Stuart as generally I come away from it feeling like I learnt little about any of them.

Trying Freeman at 13 but doing it with Ford still at 10 would be another great example in the backs.

1.Genge 2.Dan 3.Cole 4.Martin 5.Chessum 6.Underhill 7.Earl 8.CCS
9.Mitchell 10.Ford 11.Roebuck 12.Lawrence 13.Freeman 14.IFW 15.Furbank

16.George 17.Baxter 18.Stuart 19.Itoje 20.Pearson 21.JvP 22.M Smith 23.Slade

Something like that has a great blend of trialling younger players in tougher roles but still having experience around them. CCS and Dan starting. Chessum calling a lineout without Itoje for guidance or a third elite jumping option to take some pressure off. Freeman running the blitz from the toughest channel.

Had Murley's form improved at all PF? I really rated him in the past but he's generally had a poorer season from what I've seen of him when fit. Not quite Dan Kelly levels of falling off a cliff. Roebuck has certainly caught the eye more this season when I've seen their club form though.

We keep talking about the lack of TH props, plenty of youngsters coming through, but not ready yet we say, who can we pick in the mean time, Coles is getting old, Stuart is ineffective, how about giving Trevor Davison another try, he is 31 will be around for the next RWC and could see us through until the kids become adults. I have not seen anyone get the better of him yet this season. Plus he can play LH in an emergency.

George Hendy came off the bench today with about 10 minutes to go against Munster, two tries later he had sealed the win for Saints, another player that is happy at either 15 or wing, electric pace and excellent handling skills should make him a player to be thought about for the England squad, not that we haven't got wings and FBs coming out in droves at the moment.

Amusing to see Smith (F) trying to do a chest bump with Coles, ended up smacking his nose into Coles chest, problem with being 5'9 against someone 6'9"

Alex Coles is developing very well also.

Hendy looks powerful...saints S&C team have done great job for this season...took saints in general and their individual players on to another level...

Hendy has that long stride, but has great balance, and decent acceleration.  Watching him run, he almost always squares his shoulders toward the line, even when a long way away.  His first yesterday was a great backs try from down deep, almost the length of the pitch from Mitchell to Fin to Sleights to Ramm and finally to Hendy.  His second was from a standing start outside the Munster 22 and simply skinned a couple of guys and kept his legs moving in contact.

I seem to remember that in pre-season training Hendy was the fastest player in the squad and despite those long legs was quicker than Sleights over 40m.

He put on 5kg over the close season and you can see the benefit of it now, likewise Furbank.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:how about giving Trevor Davison another try, he is 31 will be around for the next RWC

Davison was lucky to get a go the first time round. He's a solid clubman there's no differentiating factor to warrant him taking on the shirt or being likely to keep a squad place for another three years.

I thought Stuart had a decent 6N.

By the way, In the Saints-Munster match Freeman once again ran the last 20 minutes at Outside Centre.
Also, Curtis Langdon was man of the match. Had another great game.

doctor_grey wrote:By the way, In the Saints-Munster match Freeman once again ran the last 20 minutes at Outside Centre.
Also, Curtis Langdon was man of the match.  Had another great game.

Freeman at 13 is something I hope continues with Saints as it'll hopefully demonstrate to England he can play there and at some stage we see it.
Langdon was excellent as was Mitchell and Hendy when they got on. Mitchell threw a few wayward passes but the pace he injected into game more than made up for it.
Hendy two superb tries and the 2nd showed his strength. Another potential 15 for Eng maybe.

I'm as unconvinced by Smith at 15 as I am by Steward. They both bring real strengths, but also real vulnerabilities. Steward may be able to fix his, but Smith is always going to have a hard time against a big runner with time to get going.

To my mind, the way to give Smith the time he needs to exploit defences is to have players outside him who can run at first receiver or give him a second touch of the ball (a lot of the international tries he's created and scored have come under those circumstances). The more England can unsettle defences by moving the point of attack, the more valuable Smith becomes. I think that's what Eddie was looking to do with Smith and Farrell together, but the other pieces of the jigsaw didn't come together quickly enough.

I'd expect Marchant to be a part of the picture if he comes back to England, but the key thing is that the centres need to be comfortable as playmakers and it would help to have back rowers who are also comfortable in the line. If (as has been rumoured) England recruit Catt this summer when his Ireland contract is up, I'd expect him to have a big influence on the shape of the backline - not least because he played a similar role for England in 2003, interchanging with Wilkinson to give the latter more space to play.

I suspect Fin Smith will be 10 sooner than Marcus and im not sure i see Marcus making that 15 spot his either. Maybe a winger in place of Daly? or how about 9....?

Marcus Smith offers too much in attack to not have have him in 23 be it starting or bench. Fin Smith yesterday was good but not exceptional. He though has time on his side so I'm definitely not saying he won't make it. Out of the two Smiths I'd currently play Marcus for England.

15 becoming like the 12 spot, who is the man for the job. At one stage Steward was undroppable seemingly but either out of favour or Borthwick trying different options in 6N. He's too good a player not to be involved.

mountain man wrote:Marcus Smith offers too much in attack to not have have him in 23 be it starting or bench. Fin Smith yesterday was good but not exceptional. He though has time on his side so I'm definitely not saying he won't make it. Out of the two Smiths I'd currently play Marcus for England.

15 becoming like the 12 spot, who is the man for the job. At one stage Steward was undroppable seemingly but either out of favour or Borthwick trying different options in 6N. He's too good a player not to be involved.

Not many fly halves will look good with a 50mph wind blowing. Smith (F) did the sensible thing and did not try anything extravagant, kept the ball low to try and negate the wind effect which of course cost him distance. He is not the running 10 the Smith (M) is but is better defensively and his sleight of hand and timing are just as good when putting people through small gaps. There is not much in it really.

I thought Crowley out played him but anyway that was a one off game so cannot draw any meaningful conclusions from that. I wouldn't say from what I've seen of Fin he's better defensively than Marcus. I think we should just be glad there is life and options post Farrell.

mountain man wrote:I thought Crowley out played him but anyway that was a one off game so cannot draw any meaningful conclusions from that. I wouldn't say from what I've seen of Fin he's better defensively than Marcus. I think we should just be glad there is life and options post Farrell.

I think one of the interesting things about the Smith Brothers are neither are afraid to stick their head in (so to speak) and hit the rucks and make their tackles. This past weekend, Fin was credited with 9 tackles and Marcus with 6. Not too bad for a couple of fly halves.

mountain man wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:By the way, In the Saints-Munster match Freeman once again ran the last 20 minutes at Outside Centre.
Also, Curtis Langdon was man of the match.  Had another great game.

Freeman at 13 is something I hope continues with Saints as it'll hopefully demonstrate to England he can play there and at some stage we see it.
Langdon was excellent as was Mitchell and Hendy when they got on. Mitchell threw a few wayward passes but the pace he injected into game more than made up for it.
Hendy two superb tries and the 2nd showed his strength. Another potential 15 for Eng maybe.

If you play Lawrence and Freeman in the midfield then you absolutely need a playmaker like Daly on thw wing...how do you feel about that?

Geordie wrote:

mountain man wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:By the way, In the Saints-Munster match Freeman once again ran the last 20 minutes at Outside Centre.
Also, Curtis Langdon was man of the match.  Had another great game.

Freeman at 13 is something I hope continues with Saints as it'll hopefully demonstrate to England he can play there and at some stage we see it.
Langdon was excellent as was Mitchell and Hendy when they got on. Mitchell threw a few wayward passes but the pace he injected into game more than made up for it.
Hendy two superb tries and the 2nd showed his strength. Another potential 15 for Eng maybe.

If you play Lawrence and Freeman in the midfield then you absolutely need a playmaker like Daly on thw wing...how do you feel about that?

If England need another playmaker, then play Furbank at 15.  Or Marcus.

doctor_grey wrote:

Geordie wrote:

mountain man wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:By the way, In the Saints-Munster match Freeman once again ran the last 20 minutes at Outside Centre.
Also, Curtis Langdon was man of the match.  Had another great game.

Freeman at 13 is something I hope continues with Saints as it'll hopefully demonstrate to England he can play there and at some stage we see it.
Langdon was excellent as was Mitchell and Hendy when they got on. Mitchell threw a few wayward passes but the pace he injected into game more than made up for it.
Hendy two superb tries and the 2nd showed his strength. Another potential 15 for Eng maybe.

If you play Lawrence and Freeman in the midfield then you absolutely need a playmaker like Daly on thw wing...how do you feel about that?

If England need another playmaker, then play Furbank at 15.  Or Marcus.

Furbank is there..but is 10 and 15 enough...you probably need another one either in the centre's or on the wing...
At the moment its Lawrence or Freeman in the centre...but Freeman isnt even a starter a 13 yet...

Geordie wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Geordie wrote:

mountain man wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:By the way, In the Saints-Munster match Freeman once again ran the last 20 minutes at Outside Centre.
Also, Curtis Langdon was man of the match.  Had another great game.

Freeman at 13 is something I hope continues with Saints as it'll hopefully demonstrate to England he can play there and at some stage we see it.
Langdon was excellent as was Mitchell and Hendy when they got on. Mitchell threw a few wayward passes but the pace he injected into game more than made up for it.
Hendy two superb tries and the 2nd showed his strength. Another potential 15 for Eng maybe.

If you play Lawrence and Freeman in the midfield then you absolutely need a playmaker like Daly on thw wing...how do you feel about that?

If England need another playmaker, then play Furbank at 15.  Or Marcus.

Furbank is there..but is 10 and 15 enough...you probably need another one either in the centre's or on the wing...
At the moment its Lawrence or Freeman in the centre...but Freeman isnt even a starter a 13 yet...

Ok, here is the starting England back line through to the next RWC.  But only if you want England to become an attacking juggernaut:
9:  Mitchell
10: Fin
11: Sleightholme (Ollie, not Jon)
12: Dingwall
13: Freeman
14: Hendy
15: Furby

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=3d5aec0ebbda9031&q=so+let+it+be+written&tbm=vid&source=lnms&prmd=ivsnbmtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjYvPOrs7OFAxUHFmIAHVK6AxMQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1536&bih=735&dpr=1.25#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:66293b7f,vid:2O8gTIr4lys,st:0

Strawbridge has joined England full time as assistant coach.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68768850

Geordie wrote:

mountain man wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:By the way, In the Saints-Munster match Freeman once again ran the last 20 minutes at Outside Centre.
Also, Curtis Langdon was man of the match.  Had another great game.

Freeman at 13 is something I hope continues with Saints as it'll hopefully demonstrate to England he can play there and at some stage we see it.
Langdon was excellent as was Mitchell and Hendy when they got on. Mitchell threw a few wayward passes but the pace he injected into game more than made up for it.
Hendy two superb tries and the 2nd showed his strength. Another potential 15 for Eng maybe.

If you play Lawrence and Freeman in the midfield then you absolutely need a playmaker like Daly on thw wing...how do you feel about that?

Who do you prefer Geordie, Freeman or Marchant because he will be available next season. I think that both of them on the same field would be a very effective combo, both capable of playing both positions (wing / centre) to an international standard and having the nouse to know when to swap and change

It was me who wrote that originally so I'll answer as well. Marchant a proven performer internationally at centre, Freeman so far is a part timer at club level at 13. As it stands probably Marchant but with more time at 13 I can see Freeman being an excellent centre hence why I'd like to see him get more game time there.

This has a twofold advantage of getting him more time with ball in hand and frees up wing spot to play another.

I got an interesting insight on Marchant the other day from someone whose son had played with him at school. Apparently he's always been comfortable catching the ball above his head rather than waiting for it to fall into his breadbasket like most players, and that's part of why for a relatively short player (he's listed at 6'0") he's effective under the high ball. It helps that it's coupled with a very good jump and excellent timing as well.

I do hope he comes back so that Borthwick can build on what they started with the RWC. Given the attack is based on a very fluid model, that's entirely consistent with interchanging with Freeman and others as the situation demands.

I thought Marchant had rubbished the claims he was going to Sarries and was going to do another year in France. As such he won't be available.

It's good to see the Saints backline going so well. Including them en masse against South Africa might have a benefit as they are used to playing behind a scrum that is going backwards. :-)

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Geordie wrote:

mountain man wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:By the way, In the Saints-Munster match Freeman once again ran the last 20 minutes at Outside Centre.
Also, Curtis Langdon was man of the match.  Had another great game.

Freeman at 13 is something I hope continues with Saints as it'll hopefully demonstrate to England he can play there and at some stage we see it.
Langdon was excellent as was Mitchell and Hendy when they got on. Mitchell threw a few wayward passes but the pace he injected into game more than made up for it.
Hendy two superb tries and the 2nd showed his strength. Another potential 15 for Eng maybe.

If you play Lawrence and Freeman in the midfield then you absolutely need a playmaker like Daly on thw wing...how do you feel about that?

Who do you prefer Geordie, Freeman or Marchant because he will be available next season. I think that both of them on the same field would be a very effective combo, both capable of playing both positions (wing / centre) to an international standard and having the nouse to know when to swap and change

Aw thats the question...and im just not 100% sure. Your right Marchant at 13, Freeman on the wing would work very nicely...

However, Id written Slade off at this level, but he has performed very well and he has a far better kicking game than Freeman or Marchant. Its not just about who you pick in the centres...the whole backline needs balance and needs to complement each other.

And saying Freeman on the wing...well jeez i couldnt pick any between Freeman, Waboso, Sleightholme and Roebuck...all are genuine quality and offer different gametypes. Daly is much maligned but hes in the equation aswell...just for his alround ability...which we see week in week out in the prem. Maybe he needs to be looked at at 13...

Its a nice puzzle to have for a change.

Edit - And im actually confident that this current set of coaches will get it right...

formerly known as Sam wrote:I thought Marchant had rubbished the claims he was going to  Sarries and was going to do another year in France.

He denied those January reports that he had signed with Saracens, adding he loves Paris, and is happy at Stade. He signed for three years, so is under no obligation to keep saying he's committed. However, his statement doesn't rule out the possibility that he could return earlier.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I thought Marchant had rubbished the claims he was going to  Sarries and was going to do another year in France. As such he won't be available.

It's good to see the Saints backline going so well. Including them en masse against South Africa might have a benefit as they are used to playing behind a scrum that is going backwards. :-)

Don't forget that Saints look better in green than the Springboks. Just sayin'.

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I thought Marchant had rubbished the claims he was going to  Sarries and was going to do another year in France. As such he won't be available.

It's good to see the Saints backline going so well. Including them en masse against South Africa might have a benefit as they are used to playing behind a scrum that is going backwards. :-)

Don't forget that Saints look better in green than the Springboks.  Just sayin'.

Yes, just not as good as the Tigers who are doing their best to bring through enough big mobile forwards to allow us to compete (why we can't develop outside centres and wingers anymore is anyone's guess).