England's Summer of Cricket 2024

First topic message reminder :

Now the County Championship has begun, it is officially summer once more. Don't let the rain tell you otherwise!

We can talk about promising county performances, the build up to the World T20, and Ollie Robinson's latest injury when it happens. Then, in just under two months, England start playing games:

England v Pakistan, four T20s, 22nd May-30th May
World T20 in June
England v West Indies, three tests, 10th July-30th July
England v Sri Lanka, three tests, 21st August-10th September
England v Australia, three T20s, 11th September-15th September
England v Australia, five ODIs, 19th September-29th September

It's a bit of a pressure summer for England. The ODI side made the most disappointing defence of a World Cup crown since France in the football in 2002, so there's pressure on the T20 side, and Mott in particular, to deliver something decent in the Caribbean.

For the test match side, it's been three series without a series win for England, so the expectation is on for England to get back to winning ways against the West Indies and Sri Lanka. The West Indies often cause England a few troubles, but England have won their last seven home series v the West Indies, dating back to 2000, and you have to go back to 1988 for the last time the West Indies won a series in England.

Sri Lanka are visiting for the first time in eight years for a test series, so it's well overdue. They've certainly managed to upset England in the past, very famously in 1998, but also in 2014, so it's a series that cannot be taken for granted.

And to round off the summer the ECB are making a dash for cash, with eight limited overs games against the Aussies in the fading September light, in games that will probably be forgotten in no time at all.

VTR wrote:I don't mind England being in this position, it's a test for the middle order. People are raving about Smith but he's had it pretty easy so far, making runs under no real pressure. Even Ravi Bopara managed to smack a few Test hundreds when the going was easy

Hi VTR - I’m away and so mainly off Duty as Alfie mentioned but just popping in to say your old mate Ravi never had to keep to get his place and before going out to bat.

Btw, nice jinx earlier.

Duty281 wrote:

38/3 and England made to look ridiculous because just before this test Pope was sounding off about how England might get to 500 or 600 in a single day at some point.

You'll be eating those words when they end up 638/5 after today's play!

VTR wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

38/3 and England made to look ridiculous because just before this test Pope was sounding off about how England might get to 500 or 600 in a single day at some point.

You'll be eating those words when they end up 638/5 after today's play!

Sounds pessimistic to think England will lose two wickets today!

Seales gets Root LBW! But it was a muted appeal, umpire said no, and West Indies didn't review. Three reds.

I thought it was a good shout.

Pope goes to Shamar Joseph.

Another chop on in a series of chop ons! West Indies definitely ahead now, but Root and Brook are together again.

Duty281 wrote:Seales gets Root LBW! But it was a muted appeal, umpire said no, and West Indies didn't review. Three reds.

I thought it was a good shout.

That has surprised, looked to be going down leg; Da Silva and Seales both signalled that as well.

Wow, heaps of trouble now. 54/5, Brook gone for 2.

Duty281 wrote:Wow, heaps of trouble now. 54/5, Brook gone for 2.

That's the two down I said, get them done early and can now focus on scoring the 600!

Soul Requiem wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Seales gets Root LBW! But it was a muted appeal, umpire said no, and West Indies didn't review. Three reds.

I thought it was a good shout.

That has surprised, looked to be going down leg; Da Silva and Seales both signalled that as well.

I thought sliding down too. After the ball tracking, I realised that I don't think the camera is exactly square behind the stumps. The wicket is angled slightly rather than completely square in the picture on that primary angle. It happens quite often but is something I only ever really think about after unexpected ball tracking like that. In one of the Ashes Tests last summer it was more notably askew, the camera being well over to the offside that time, and there were quite a few DRS calls from that end which looked really odd but I just thought it was that poor angle making it look like everything was sliding down.

Very fortunate for England that they didn't review though. Root is looking in good nick, they'd have been in massive trouble had he gone there. His ability to score at nearly a run a ball in a risk free manner can ease the pressure really quickly in these scenarios. He's suddenly 41 off 48 balls with only 4 boundaries. I've seen few batters who are better at rotating the strike. His running between the wickets in general has always been outstanding.

50 partnership up, a little bit of that pressure eased.

I know he got a fifty in T2, but Stokes could really do with a substantial score soon. 18 innings without a ton at the moment. He'd gone 10 innings without a fifty before the last Test.

king_carlos wrote:Atkinson needs one more wicket to join Bashir in the "as many five-fers as Andrew Flintoff in his career" gang.

It's very difficult to explain how good Flintoff was to someone who hasn't seen him bowl. Coincidentally had the highlights of his final match at Lords pop up; 5-96 regularly hitting speeds in excess of 92mph but it was the monotonous accuracy that stood out.

Soul Requiem wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Atkinson needs one more wicket to join Bashir in the "as many five-fers as Andrew Flintoff in his career" gang.

It's very difficult to explain how good Flintoff was to someone who hasn't seen him bowl. Coincidentally had the highlights of his final match at Lords pop up; 5-96 regularly hitting speeds in excess of 92mph but it was the monotonous accuracy that stood out.

Yeah, mainly injury but also things like the captaincy and struggles touring made him inconsistent, sadly. His peak bowling was incredible though. Rapid. Steep bounce. Conventional and reverse swing. Very accurate. Incredible yorker. Horrid bouncer.

His ODI stats represent the accuracy really well. Even when you factor in the different era of ODI cricket, his economy and average are fantastic. His RPO was better than Brett Lee for instance with his average only 1 run per wicket higher. Elite.

That '05 Ashes pace attack are all a story of needing to explain the fond memories if you just look at stats. Harmison was similar to Flintoff in a way. Incredible peaks but injury and other issues led to inconsistency. Hoggard was one of the last genuine outswing bowlers who didn't really move it both ways or seam the ball as well. Pretty much all Test 'swing bowlers' now move it both ways and have a wobble seam to fall back on. Hoggard was an old fashioned outswing bowler who carved out a very rounded career where his average in England was actually slightly worse than his overall numbers. His career is very good when you factor in a batting friendly era and his overseas numbers. Then Simon Jones is in that Shane Bond bracket of what might've been. So much talent, seen so fleetingly.

As i've got older and started suffering even more from bad knees I shudder watching some bowlers and Flintoff would have been one of them; the force through his left knee must have been immense.

It was the angle of Flintoff's left ankle in his delivery stride that made me wince. It was pointing to about 4th slip whilst all the momentum from his significant bodyweight was hurtling towards the stumps. It honestly feels amazing that he got enough overs for 200+ wickets out his left leg bowling like that.

Had he come through in a more professional era that likely would've been coached out of him. The sort of 'basics' that academies deal with early these days. There's much more emphasis on teaching cricketers to be athletes rather than just cricketers. Which in turn means they have better mechanics with stuff like running and leads to fewer idiosyncrasies like that.

50 up for Root. You can tell there's a lot on the line in this bilateral dead rubber when we are discussing the intricacies of a retired all-rounders bowling action just before the lunch break.

king_carlos wrote:It was the angle of Flintoff's left ankle in his delivery stride that made me wince. It was pointing to about 4th slip whilst all the momentum from his significant bodyweight was hurtling towards the stumps. It honestly feels amazing that he got enough overs for 200+ wickets out his left leg bowling like that.

Had he come through in a more professional era that likely would've been coached out of him. The sort of 'basics' that academies deal with early these days. There's much more emphasis on teaching cricketers to be athletes rather than just cricketers. Which in turn means they have better mechanics with stuff like running and leads to fewer idiosyncrasies like that.

I get that your last point about coaching but I actually feel there are certain players who benefit from less coaching and Flintoff would have been one of them. His weight issues would always take up a significant chunk of his training so not sure he'd have gained as much from a more professional era as most; Warne would have been another in that mould.

Came late to the cricket today and immediately realised they were missing my calming influence 5 down and I hadn't been watching for any of them...
Thankfully all seems to have settled since I tuned in...avoided the follow on , fifty stand , another Root half century...
Jokes aside it has looked still like a normal sort of batting effort on a good batting strip so not sure what has been going on to have fifteen wickets down in less than 4 sessions ? I had better search out the replays of all those English wickets to see what the devil was going on.
Close to lunch now as 150 comes up so a pretty decent run rate...

Such a smooth counter attack from Root and Stokes, with very little risk taken, but a century partnership in no time.

Still trailing by 125, however, and the break has come at a good time for the tourists.

Root two away from 12,000!

Lunch at 157/5...slow over rate , only 25 bowled. Good comeback from the experienced England pair but more to do after the break. Seems like another proper contest so give West Indies much credit for keeping up their efforts despite the series being done : many teams might have mentally checked out after the dismal end to the last game.

Soul Requiem wrote:

king_carlos wrote:It was the angle of Flintoff's left ankle in his delivery stride that made me wince. It was pointing to about 4th slip whilst all the momentum from his significant bodyweight was hurtling towards the stumps. It honestly feels amazing that he got enough overs for 200+ wickets out his left leg bowling like that.

Had he come through in a more professional era that likely would've been coached out of him. The sort of 'basics' that academies deal with early these days. There's much more emphasis on teaching cricketers to be athletes rather than just cricketers. Which in turn means they have better mechanics with stuff like running and leads to fewer idiosyncrasies like that.

I get that your last point about coaching but I actually feel there are certain players who benefit from less coaching and Flintoff would have been one of them. His weight issues would always take up a significant chunk of his training so not sure he'd have gained as much from a more professional era as most; Warne would have been another in that mould.

Whilst Warne was infamously unprofessional in his diet, fitness, personal life, etc I actually think he benefited a lot from the Oz coaching in the 90s being highly professionalised for the time. Australian sport in general came to professional coaching earlier. Working one on one with a specialist coach like Terry Jenner was huge for Warne and something he likely wouldn't have got in any other setup at that time. That aspect of Australian cricket was very ahead of its time then.

Whereas England at the same time were a motley crew of county contracted and paid players who occasionally rocked up at Test matches. It was really amateur, that sort of one to one technical coaching on the level of someone like Jenner for a leg spinner likely just wasn't there for seamers in England. Warne looks a completely different bowler from his early Tests compared to after working with Jenner. Guys like Freddie were likely just bowling a ton of overs in the nets with occasional input from other Lancashire bowlers who had been about for a few years.

It was more those technical aspects of bowling and specifically his run up that I was thinking with Freddie. Playing with Wasim Akram at Lancs was huge for Freddie learning about reverse swing for instance. That element of junior players learning from senior ones should never be lost. It isn't a system likely to identify issues such as his leading leg landing at an awkward angle and then coaching it out early.

There's always that potential for unintended consequences though I do accept. I know Gough talked about getting reverse swing by bringing his front foot slightly straighter, with forced him to get slightly more chest on, which got it reversing more. Having to rotate around that front leg more may well have put the stress on it that led to knee surgery and Gough's career being cut short. Were Freddie to straighten that front foot, maybe he would've gained longevity but lost something else.

Back to this test, there's a lot to like about the West Indies bowling line up, good pace and the natural ability is definitely there but as they keep saying on comms the consistency is lacking. A lot of that comes down to how quickly they seem to alter plans, not sure if they get bored of doing the same thing without reward or if it's a case of over thinking.

Well there's a slight surprise.

Challenging situation for Smith to come in to. Good experience for him.

I was expecting Stokes to throw his wicket away against Motie if anyone!

A really good test of Smith the batter.

Not a great shot that from Stokes, in that situation you either swivel on the shot keeping it down or fully commit; was a bit inbetween.

The short ball tactic by West Indies is livening up the action since lunch...Stokes will be kicking himself for falling for it , but the runs are flowing. Smith lucky to get away with a glove evading the keeper but followed up with a beautifully timed six over cow corner...guess it is still "Bazball" then...

Root gone for 87 which is a bit of a surprise to me...Thought he was nailed on for a hundred. Still 50 behind so a Woakes innings would be handy...

Yep, definitely a surprise. Root will be frustrated at missing out on another ton, which would have drawn him level with Cook. Smith has gone nicely to 37*, including one monumental six.

West Indies definitely have the foundations for a good all round bowling attack. It's just the batting that's a very sizable issue.

Looks like scores will be roughly level after the first innings again.

England might be eyeing a bit of a lead the way Smith and Woakes are stroking the ball...56 overs down so the new one is a long way off.Good fifty for Smith. Going at 5+ per over without doing anything wild : reckon this has been a very good response to that clatter of early wickets. I remain surprised we haven't seen bigger scores on this and will be interested to see how West Indies manage second time around as you'd think conditions will still be pretty good for batting.

Rain delay.

Currently got Broad and Anderson walking around a park. With the sound muted it looks like a beautiful first date.

Oh rats ! Smith bowled by a grubber on 95...

That's so cruel on Smith. Bowled for 95 off a ball that just kept very low.

Bad luck for the young man , played so well...but I fancy he will get hundreds in the future . And he and Woakes have put their team in a strong position.
Looking again it didn't keep as low as I first thought : just seemed to die on him and he played over the top of it.
Lead is 60 and I think Woakes will fancy extending it further ...

Woakes over fifty and really ramping up the pain for West Indies, who must have felt confident at 54/5. And of course if they'd referred that lbw of Root's ... all falling apart for them now as the lead passes 80

Real missed opportunity for the Windies but some great knocks. Probably beyond them now

Such a shame for Smith not to make it to a maiden ton but that is still a fantastic knock and exactly the sort he has been brought into the side to play. It's been a very good debut series with the gloves and bat. A selection vindicated IMO.

Woakes isn't having a bad day either after some grumbling about his continued selection. A vital knock at number 8 helping them to a good lead from a rubbish position this morning. Then he knocks over Braithwaite in the first over!

Probably not great odds if you have day 4 tickets

I would have liked WI to not concede more than a 50 run lead and that would have left game almost equal.
They looked like having a lead themselves but the lower order hand of Smith &Woakes put Eng ahead by getting 94 ahead.
WI bowling is skillful but lack precise planning. Discover the virtue of choking runs and use Holder better.

WI have depth and they need to scrap& find contributions from all 11 to try and push the target upwards of 200
Far still but doable I think.

A good day for England in the end from a tough situation.

It didn't pay off with a third wicket, but I still really liked the move of getting Bashir into the attack early and whilst the ball was still hard. Motie had started to get a few to turn, albeit without much reward, and there was that bit of inconsistent bounce too which Bashir's height could exploit. It didn't bring a breakthrough on this occasion but it's a proactive use of the spinner that I like to see.

Probably all over tomorrow, unless the West Indies have some unexpected fight within them left. They'll need to bat all of tomorrow, at least, to make it interesting.

Excellent recovery from England earlier in the day. 54/5 becoming 376ao.

Bashir bowling well, couple of half chances gone down so far

Mark wood has been so unlucky this series...bowled exceptionally well with zero luck

Still looking very good for batting out there, especially with the ball getting to 30 overs old and the sun being out.

West Indies have wiped out the deficit. Louis has got past the tricky 20s, and Hodge has played a breezy counter attack.

50 for Louis.

I've liked what I've seen of him this series, but this is the first time he's pushed on to an actual score. Good effort.

Some big hits for Louis but Stokes has him now.

Decent morning for the windies, rode their luck a little early but Hodge and Louis played nicely after that. England will be happy enough with the wickets they have though

Louis is clearly a talent. Just one that is having to learn red ball batting in the Test arena due to the shortcomings of the game as a whole. There's ability there though, even if that's his only fifty of the series.

Elsewhere, Rocky Flintoff has become Lancashire's youngest ever first team debutant in the one day cup.

Mark Wood brought that innings to a rather abrupt end ! Quite an over... too fast for the tail once he got Hodge.

Not an overly daunting chase for England - and indeed optimistic ticket holders for day four will be left disappointed again. As in the previous game , West Indies competed for a while but then faded. Though if they had reviewed the Root lbw decision , who knows ? I think they'd still have been overpowered , to be honest : they are just not equipped to match this England team - at least on their own turf.

Back to winning ways for Stokes & co : professional job (all but) done.

Good to see Wood get a Michelle there. He's bowled well the last two Tests without quite getting the reward for it in the wicket column.

Stokes opening for s**ts and giggles, already 27* from 13 balls.

Stokes 41* from 18 balls now. The fastest half century in Tests was 21 balls by Misbah...

I love that the fastest fifties list includes Shane Shillingford, Dale Steyn and Tim Southee. The proud tradition of tailenders chucking their bat at anything.

Kallis and Mohammad Yousuf are other unexpected inclusions there given they weren't the fastest scorers.

Ah, a single from Stokes 19th ball. No new record today then.

Stokes gets the record for England's fastest Test ton with ease. 24 balls slashes 4 deliveries off Botham's record of 28 balls.

And a six from Stokes to finish. 82 chased down in 7.2 overs. Circus stuff to end the series with Stokes seemingly opening for no reason but a bit of fun.

They also equalled their record for the fastest a team has reached 50 in Tests. 4.2 overs. Which they set at Trent Bridge. It's a bizarre team to watch this lot!

I actually think Stokes has a lot in his technique that makes sense for batting in the top order. His technique when he isn't throwing the bat is very good, he plays pace well and is excellent against the short ball. I've often felt that he's a better bet at number 3 than Pope.

Think Crawley hurt his hand on his drop. Might be one to keep an eye on with Woakes being held out too.

Windies have talent, and across the series they've had their moments. But when the bottom fell out, it really did